What we need to do is stop viewing men and women as separate entities that require different expectations and treatment. Hell, we should probably just chuck the entire construct of gender out the window as it serves no real purpose other than to pit groups of people against each other.
We can admit there are differences in biology, sex, and cultural expectations rather than live in fantasy land and paint with a brush so broad it covers literally everyone in existence.
How about we treat groups as individuals. Whether that be a man or woman. Chances are the problems effecting most men are issues other men face. Women that only women face. Then some that everyone does.
I'm my experience the only problems that affect any specific gender are either tied directly to biology or, much more commonly, are problems that we ourselves create because we insist on a difference between genders.
They're both linked intrinsically as we're both saying though.
I'd argue that the difference culture makes between genders is rooted way more in biology than we people to give credit for. So much of who a person is relies on a the genetic roll of the dice and a lot less on how we're raised, who are parents are, etc. While they absolutely have influences, it's just way less than we link to think it is. Separated twin studies have shown this time and again.
Also, testosterone and estrogen are a hell of a drug.
The concept of gender derives from biological sex, so yeah they're linked. But, beyond being a convenient way to different genitals, gender doesn't really provide any positive influence to society. It's most often used as a way to reconcile differences between people and discriminate them into an identifiable group.
I think this is absolutely the way to go for future generations (think genderless preschools/kindergartens) but I really don't think we can just flip a switch and undo millennia of gendered expectations. Although I really do appreciate the folks that try.
Totally. Gender can be pretty neat when you're not being oppressed by it and have the freedom to pursue your own identity
How you gonna sell makeup and purses and shit unless they think they are not pretty? Gotta get them to sexualize themselves then get them to doubt their inherent beauty so they buy your products.
How you gonna sell guns and trucks and shit unless they think they are not manly.
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=CgeEEFpnvZA&si=IdTezv7Mtjd1e1nK
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I fully agree with your... Vibe?
But honestly there are differences between the sexes and genders and we shouldn't just ignore those. Especially not with gender roles still being so embedded and most people being raised/coded with them.
I grew up a hetero normative male and that shit is hard to let go of, even tho I'm definitely not straight and love queer stuff. Escaping that "programming" can be scary AF.
I'm more than happy to raise a new generation free of gender roles, but let's not forget those that were raised with them.
Yeah, it's definitely not something that is even remotely easy to change and it would probably take several generations to do so. I think it starts with separating the two concepts and recognizing that for the most part the differences are tied to sex, not gender. Also, I think it's perfectly fine for people to identify with a gender, but to tie the entire perception of them to the gender is where all the problems arise. Though maybe that necessarily complicates things.
Doesn't need to be anything as wild as peyote. Just get some psilocybin, some pals you haven't seen in a while, and have a talk. You'll come out of that with a deeper understanding of yourself. Fact is, for every toxic man that needs to do soul searching, there's a toxic woman. Perhaps, instead of pointing the finger at the opposite sex/gender/whatever, take people on a case by case basis. If they're important to you in your life, you can be the catalyst that causes them to take the first step towards self improvement. Empathy is extremely important.
Can I just realize I am a human with weaknesses and strengths, loves and hates, bias and judgements but knows that if I am aware that the judgements and bias are there that I can set them aside to be fair to all when needed?
I don't really want to do drugs, even if they will open my brain to the universe. I'm not ready to deal with my shit right now. I'd rather just be nice to everyone except obvious assholes, who I will just keep at a distance for my own sake.
Nope strong psychedelics are mandatory now.
But seriously I am not by any means advocating psychedelics as any sort of solution to anything. My own experiences with psychedelics have not always been good and if folks don't think it's right for them they should absolutely trust that feeling.
I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
- Hunter S Thompson
I didn't really develop a personality of my own until I went balls deep into psychedelics and dissociatives in my 20's, and even then it wasn't until I started having "bad" experiences. That first bad LSD trip was rough, but it changed how I saw myself and my place in the world in a fundamental way. So many molecules, so many memories.
I can deeply relate with this! The most extreme "bad" trip I ever had completely changed the way I saw my life.
I was headed down a bad road, and had become content with my shitty lot in life. That trip made me face the fact that I was unhappy and was going to continue become more and more unhappy until I did something about it.
Over a decade later, I am much happier with myself and my environment. Thank you LSD! You changed me life!
There are really no bad trips it's "bad" because we are in denial of what is showing us, and that conflict creates the "bad trip"
A) False. I wasn't "in denial" when I had my first legitimate bad trip. That's what made it so cathartic. I was suddenly faced with thoughts and emotions I wasn't even aware of.
B) That's kind of a dumb thing to say: "There's no such thing as a bad trip, but things can make a trip go bad."?
If your set and setting send you into a bad place, that is the LITERAL definition of the phrase "bad trip". Ergo, bad trips are a thing.
Thats like saying "there's no such thing as - 'contaminated water'. There's water which is tainted by chemicals or inorganic compounds which creates 'contaminated water' ". How it came to be contaminated is irrelevant in that context. It's still contaminated.
You're gatekeeping a psychedelic experience, and for what?
Because they're some 20yr old wannabe psychonaut with extremely limited experience with drugs or mental healthcare.
Dangerous advice. It is possible to have a psychotic break from psychedelics. But yes most bad trips are "difficult" or anxiety attacks rather than all bad.
It's not advice it's my opinion, but yeah no everyone has enough mental fortitude, so don't take my experience as baseline.
There are difficult trips like you're describing, where it's unpleasant but there's something to learn from it. And having the mindset you describe can remind you to look for the meaning in that kind of situation. But there are in fact truly bad trips, where there is no readeemable aspect of it, it's just pure unnecessary suffering. And that's not even getting to people who have a psychotic break
I'm sure there are plenty of good ways to get high, I smoked a lot of weed back in the day but I'd rather just be completely sober now.
I spent 32 years of my life sleeping horribly, my brain literally doesn't tell my lungs to breathe, I got a CPAP at 32 and for the first time felt truly awake. It was probably the most clarifying feeling I've ever felt in my life. I don't think I want to fuck with my brain now that I have it operating about as good as it ever will.
Drug-induced psychedelic experiences are certainly not the only path to self-reflection and developing deeper self-awareness (in fact, for some people, they may not have that effect at all). You're ok to pass on the peyote if you don't feel it would be beneficial.
Edit: I will say, though, that I think everyone should set trials to better understand themselves and push at their perceived limits and baselines. Drug-induced psychedelic experiences can be pretty accessible trials in this sense, again for some. Ain't the only way, though.
And then go to prison for being in possession of "narcotics" with "intent to distribute" because the police tested a bag of kitty litter and determined there was a trace of illegal drugs in it so the whole thing is cataloged as $10,000,000,000 USD worth of hardcord drugs.
With all the promising studies, I’ve really wanted to give it a go but I grew up sheltered and have zero clue where to start or get it. Not to mention the trust issues after that. I’m really hoping they legalize it.
It's super easy to grow, decriminalized in a number of US areas already, and I highly suggest you look into it. Uncle Ben's shelf stable precooked rice is a great, nearly-foolproof way to give it a go (~$1/bag = ¼lb of mushrooms or more).
edit: I should also mention that, from my own experience alone, microdosing has made my PTSD far more manageable on the daily, and I encourage everyone to find what helps them heal.
You sent me down a rabbit hole. Don’t even know what strain I’d start with but the process itself looks fascinating.
Forgive me for assuming you're in the US, but that's the only way I can help. Uncle Ben's is solid starting advice. Also, lookup sporeworks and sporetraders. Have fun, it's really worth it.
I'm gonna add a thing here about psychedelics being amazing and at the same time horrifying. Don't go looking for them thinking ego death will be anything less than death itself. Even though you come back, the you that goes in doesn't really come back out. There's also lower doses where the worst case scenario is still a bad trip and potentially months of ptsd.
Still the most positively life-changing experience you could ever have on earth IMO, but not necessarily a fun one, at least not always. Now go, meet the light entities.... Hopefully with a trip sitter.
What makes a good trip sitter? Would my equally oblivious-wife do? I know I can google it but I appreciated your perspective and sentiment.
Ideally, your trip sitter or as I like to call them spirit guides, should also be on the drug however at lower dose. Nothing is more awkward than wanting to tell someone excitedly about what is going on and they are sober.
It also helps if they have gone on trips before and knows what to expect. When you hit a psychedelic wave/happy little accidents, you really want someone who is cool, calm, and collected to help you navigate the wave/happy little accidents.
Finally, who ever is guiding you, needs to be 100% aware of what is happening.
Meh, I do think psychs should be legalized and do a ton myself, but this notion that all the shitty people in the world just need to have a good trip and they'll be better is silly and dangerous.
Tripping can make you confront shitty things you've been doing if you're a decent person, but it won't make someone who's a Nazi not a Nazi, it'll just make them weirder and sometimes more sure that they're enlightened and see the truth.
Source: have met Nazis and shit who love acid.
Agree 100% but ”humbled” is not the way to sell it.
How about “enlightened” or are we so deep in the ‘golden retriever male’ narrative that we’re actually not going to accept that some people are warriors just like others are shamans and others are carers?
Maybe whoever you really are is actually Kenough?
Yeah, this stupid polarization shit needs to end for all groups not just those who feel the most victimized in the media.
I don't see how men being gentlemen and dealing with their inner demons are mutually exclusive
I do see peyote being the part that doesn't fit in though...
Psychedelics can help you identify, understand, come to terms with accepting, and managing, the things about yourself you wouldn't otherwise. That begets the healthy self aware gentleman
So can anything. That doesn't diminish the other arguments. Especially without per capita data on outcomes. If you have this attitude, you might be unaware of the scale of people that have at a minimum experimented one time with psychedelics. It's exponentially greater than the number of people worse off. Booze on the other hand.. definitely seen fun times go sideways.. and that's the type of thing you hear "we've all been there" .. per capita booze and others def messed up more lives
Yeah, I don't want to down play the effects that properly administered psychedelics seem to be having in clinical trials.
But I've got a couple buddies who lost themselves to drugs. Specifically thinking of a pair of close friends who fell off the rails in college after getting really into pot and then LSD. I don't care how much people say it doesn't meet the clinical definition of addictive, weed will get you hooked and make you a lethargic POS if you let it.
And so given the very niche usage of peyote, I would assume those who use it are more likely to fall into the latter type of drug users.
That said, if you've got scientific write ups you can link me to to the contrary, I'd love to learn more about it.
Psychedelic therapy has significantly helped me with my PTSD. What you're talking about is self medication. Your friends are trying to find something they need. The problem isn't the drugs, it's the lack of support. It's not like they were fine and suddenly got swallowed by drugs. Anyone doing a bunch of drugs of any kind has problems that they need help with.
I'm glad to hear that worked for you. I don't know that I agree with everything you've said, but what You've said seems to have a logic basis. I do wish I'd been more mature and put together enough on my own end to help my buddies out back in the day.
But all of that aside and looping back the the original post, I do think the line "do peyote" implies a more recreational (as opposed to clinical) application of the drugs.
I think that there's some missing context that peyote is generally ceremonial with a long history of being part of indigenous religious traditions.
I did psychedelics recreationally once and it was one of the worst experiences of my life, but I think it made be a better person. But generally, I strongly disagree with recreational use of psychedelics. It's extremely dangerous to experiment with psychedelics without an understanding of what one is going in to. I don't think that clinical is the only other option here. There are a lot of places inbetween. But yeah, anyone talking about recreationally going out to do peyote without a whole lot of mental preparation and support is playing with something pretty powerful and probably won't have fun.
So if we're talking about demographic data on peyote users, could you give a more specific characterization of the latter type? Do you mean people who frequently use other illicit drugs? What are some datapoints that would help describe the type of person you're talking about (age, sex, level of education, income, ethnicity*, nationality*, frequency of use, etc.)?
*Relevant due to religious use under the American Indian Religious Freedom Act in the U.S.
Asking honestly to see what exists re: scientific write ups (though given the topic there are possible problems of under-reporting and selection bias). Found this to start from but haven't dug into it yet.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25187051/
If we're talking about the possible benefits and pitfalls of drug-induced psychedelic experiences generally outside of clinical contexts, this is tricky, but here are some write-ups of interest you could start from. This is intended simply as a signpost.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/02698811231158245
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2022.831092/full
Everyone I know who's says utter garbage like this is a mega-weed-junkie who's ruined their life.
I've seen two friends lose themselves to weed, a drug that's so utterly normalized nowadays. I don't need to know what some other bullshit does to people.
You picked the wrong internet stranger to peddle your bullshit.
I'm a corporate executive. A provider. A law abiding citizen. After taking care of my family, I create jobs for other Americans and pay high wages to offshores employees. I volunteer. I'm a good neighbor.
Most of my peers and colleagues agree with my sentiment. Many of us would even credit having an open creative mind in part for our successes.
The only normalized drugs are alcohol, nicotine, and opiates. All of which KILL PEOPLE, 2 of which KILL OTHER PEOPLE (drunk driving and second hand smoke), and the other kills families and communities. They fund mega corporations, not small businesses.
You have friends that aren't successful in typical ways and you judge them. Fine. Tell me about us junkies ruining people's lives and killing people?
Now, I showed you mine. Tell me what substances you use, and your successes, and contributions to others. Or are you just a closed minded miserable cunt with nothing to offer but to tear others down for their differences from you?
Let's go, your turn.
EDIT: I too am an AMD man.
EDIT 2: I didn't need to be that aggro. I'm not triggered but I do feel strongly about my comments. I didn't need the ad hominen at you, which was reactive on my part. I own my responsibility in that but if you want to communicate with people that you disagree with, in actual good faith, for the purpose of persuading their beliefs, that requires effort. You should learn the power of language. Junky is a word with a lot of power. I've lost friends to DEATH bc of real and addictive drugs like heroin. Don't equivocate things you don't understand.
Well, good for youuuuuuu
I have two friends with their lives ruined, which means infinity more to me than you
Best I can do is three hits of acid and a lake.
It's better than peyote and the desert anyway lol.
Unless you grew it yourself from seed. But san pedro grows way faster, is more legal, and more common/cheaper, so just a better option for most people
Is this really a good idea with a mass unguided approach?
A small fraction of men today are facing their "deep cores of emptiness" and are totally unequipped to deal with that reality. They "don't return to the village humbled". They lash out in violent rage and frequently killing other people in the process.
Actually, this makes me want to go to the next Jan 6 type rally with some Merry Prankster dosed Punch.
I'll make a sign that says "FREE MAGAritas!"
Copying from elsewhere:.
I am not by any means advocating psychedelics as any sort of solution to anything. My own experiences with psychedelics have not always been good and if folks don't think it's right for them they should absolutely trust that feeling.
I’ve only done Peyote once and I wouldn’t consider it a strong psychedelic. Don’t even remember having any visions or heightened perception, just a lot energy and motivation.
Perhaps I dosed it too low since it was the first time, but I didn’t even find it interesting enough to do it again, although perhaps it might be useful for my ADHD.
Mushrooms are far stronger hallucinogens, yet in my experience they are also far more common.
Always get someone to help guide you through your trip or as you have correctly pointed out, the problem gets worse.
Edit: Grammar is important.
Your sample size is self selecting for those that were seeking it out. However the post is advising to recommend it to all men. This population might not have the same outcomes.
I don't really think psychedelics should be recommended to everyone, but I also think that particular concern is paranoid and ignorant and maybe a little bit misandrist in a way you don't need controlled studies to recognize. You want drugs that could make someone into an out of control rage zombie if they don't have a chaperone, that's entirely the wrong ones.
I don’t really think psychedelics should be recommended to everyone,
We agree.
but I also think that particular concern is paranoid and ignorant and maybe a little bit misandrist in a way you don’t need controlled studies to recognize.
Instead of focusing your thoughts on the best of us, or even the middle of us, think of the worst of us. Then imagine advocating to give that small number of men powerful psychoactive drugs without any monitoring or mediation. Thats an outcome of the advice of OP's image.
That’s why you shouldn’t do these substances around people. Going alone, or better yet with a friend who stays sober, out into nature is the far better choice. The whole point is to reawaken your animal instincts that have been battered and bruised from society’s constant domestication, and to that end it helps to have some trees around.
What this lady is really saying is that most men are pussies because they don’t let their wild side out every once in a while. But you really don’t need to murder and kill people in order to do that, just going to play Tarzan in the jungle every now and then will do the trick.
What this lady is really saying is that most men are pussies because they don’t let their wild side out every once in a while.
Also, we apparently need to be humbled.
I don't think its a bad thing to be humbled by the knowledge that each of us is just an insignificant collection of recycled atoms that coalesce and starts thinking for a fraction of a moment before those atoms separate again and our consciousness returns to nothingness with the universe completely ignorant of us ever existing.
Right. And men, apparently, haven't been humbled enough by this truth that we've discussed and written about for millennia?
Instead of thinking of the entirety of men, think of the worst of us. Those are the ones that still don't have this knowledge even though it is known to humanity for millennia. Those are the ones I'm referring to.
Yes but I’ll give her credit for not asking men to humble themselves before her, like most women do, but to request that they humble themselves before God instead.
I cannot fault her for that. It’s the proper thing for men to do.
“Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.” — James 4:10
they don’t let their wild side out every once in a while.
Yea, because that's how we get arrested.
What this lady is really saying is that most men are pussies because they don’t let their wild side out every once in a while.
I really really don't think that is what she's saying.
I think she's saying: "Grasp, for a moment, the concept that most of the things you hold dear and strive for are mere societal constructs that not only don't define your potential, but in fact can limit what you can achieve. Further, the achievements could be for intangibles instead of money, power, or fame. Realize how small you are to the universe, how insignificant. Be humbled by it. Be humbled by the concept of life, and that you have the gift of it, but not for long. Don't waste your few dozen years of existence on trifle things."
I'm saying that isn't a welcome message for many men that define themselves as the higher of a relationship of subjugation. Whether that subjugation is based on perceived superiority to another gender, race, or religion. To this small percentage of men, inferiority, in any form is considered a weakness, and only bold acts of depravity would wipe away that stain in their twisted minds.
no I'm too square and scared of mind altering substances (my grasp on reality is already quite tenuous)
Stay that way if you can...
I had a pretty bad trip which resulted in an ego death. I'm not sure how I kept my job after it, I was basically a walking zombie for a good 2 months. Took about 18 months to connect back to reality and even now 7 years later I'm not the same person.
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I don't mean to invalidate your experience at all but I don't think that's what people commonly think of when referring to "ego death". In my experience it's shorter and fades with the trip. Experiences that long sounds like it triggerered something. Are you familiar with depersonalization and rerealization? I've experienced something similar to those, unrelated to a trip, that lasted a few months.
I'm really sorry you had to navigate that. I've had (mostly) positive experiences with psychedelics but this is a good reminder to not recommend them freely.
Yeah ok those explain it a bit better.
I completely became detached from myself. Even in a wild dream where you may look different etc you're still you, what I did to myself I was not only not me at some points I wasn't even a person or an animal.. was mould and ink and a single atom.. shit sounds crazy stupid typing it now but it was very real when it was happening
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Doesn't sound stupid to me at all. I've definetely looked over some edges (metaphorically) before
Same. I've had ego death before, tripped hundreds of times, I've always been, and will continue to be, an advocate for psychedelic drugs, mostly mushrooms. But that last trip (mushrooms) was so bad, I was begging my wife to call 911 (convinced I was dying of a heart attack). She was on even more than I was and handled it like a champ, reminding me I was on mushrooms and even slapped a Fitbit on my wrist (which I couldn't read lol) to show me I was not having a heart attack. I'll never know how she managed to deal with me in that state. But ever since that night, even if I smoke weed I start to get that panicked feeling from that trip. I realize of course now that I had a panic attack in the moments leading to the ego death and after it became so strong I could no longer panic, said my goodbyes (lol) and accepted my fate. It was pure hell.
I'm convinced my mind is too fragile to experience that ever again and I will not ever take that chance again. It took months to recover and I was even prescribed Klonopin to ease the continuing panic attacks during the following weeks.
Mushrooms can be an amazing, beautiful, life changing drug, but it can also kick your fucking ass so bad you'll be feeling the effects of that ass whooping for the rest of your life. In retrospect I'm glad I had that experience but do not wish to repeat it. I've had bad trips many times but that was straw that broke this camels back.
Long story short, trips can be a learning experience that can't be obtained anywhere else, but know that they can leave lasting effects (mostly positive, but not always) that will change you on a fundamental level.
The panic attack was the exact same as me although I'd never experienced a panic attack or even mild anxiety before then so it took me about 5 or 6 more panic attacks in the following months to work out what was happening. Was a wild few months there just randomly thinking I was dying.
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If that's how you feel then I would recommend avoiding them, or if you did want to, proceeding with extreme cautious (very low doses).
If any family history of schizophrenia then definitely avoid.
Thanks, can. My partner is curious, so I'll probably take a baby dose at some point.
I'm pretty attached to my sobriety. If not for the mostly emphatic accounts of people's trips, I wouldn't have any interest. It's nice to hear a voice going a bit counter to that for once.
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I'm pretty experienced so if either of you have any specific questions reply with them and I can do my best to answer.
I really want to emphasize starting with a low dose. You can always take more, but can't take less. Any experience with mind altering substances at all? Alcohol, cannabis, etc? Not that they're really comparable.
Remember set and setting too. You want to be in a good mindset, if you've had a bad day or are dwelling on something that's making you stressed it's best to reschedule. Also, if you're on any medications make sure to google any interactions. And the setting. Be with people you trust in a comfortable, familiar environment.
Yeah plenty of experience with alcohol and cannabis. And my partner was a raver, so lots of experience with drugs there. Though nowadays we don't even drink coffee, so our tolerances are probably in the toilet lol.
My ideal first trip would be one where I doubt if I'm even feeling anything, so very on board with starting on a low dose.
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My ideal first trip would be one where I doubt if I'm even feeling anything,
In that case I'd recommend maybe 0.1g (whereas for a proper "feeling it" dose I'd say ~2g)
Alright! Sounds like I've got my trajectory plotted, thanks! Will try and remember to check back when I finally get around to it
I can’t do hallucinogens anymore. Even ecstasy gives me a “bad trip”. I get all anxious and in my own head. I have to lock myself in a room by myself. I can’t smoke weed because it makes me super anxious. Micro-dosing is cool though.
I don’t know. I started smoking weed at like 12, and started taking acid and ecstasy at like 14 or 15. It used to be fun. I used to fucking love the way it made me feel. But somewhere around 19 or 20 weed started giving me really bad anxiety attacks. Hallucinogens started making me freak out. It is incredibly unpleasant and unfortunate. I know what it’s like to enjoy those things, but I just can’t anymore.
Sorry to hear that bro, it seems worse than never having had it at all than to enjoy it for a while and then never be able to take it anymore.
Most people get tired of doing drugs at some point in their lives. "When you get the message, hang up the phone."
all i want in life is a briefcase full of psychedelics,uppers downers, and all arounders like hunter s.
Image Transcription: Twitter Post
Alena Smith, @internetalena
We don't need men to be "gentlemen" we need men to do peyote and face their deep cores of emptiness, then return to the village humbled