https://www.friendlyatheist.com/p/conservatives-cant-handle-the-satanic
Even Republican lawmakers can't convince their base that freedom of religion applies to non-Christians, too
That's pretty funny. The purest of ridicule: a fractional taste of their own medicine
Like sending "In God We Trust" banners written in Arabic to Texas schools. They don't like getting done unto them as they do unto others.
I’m curious about this one. I was amused when it was first done - I think I even donated to the cause, but it’s been awhile and I don’t remember. I don’t know if they ever got any of their signs posted, but I do remember people claiming that the law stated the schools had to post donated signs.
Obviously it’s a great loophole in a stupid law, and should equally cover Hindi, Chinese, or any other scary language. The law, as originally written, did not specify a language.
My question is whether it would similarly apply to a sign in English that read “In Allah we Trust.” Since Allah is literally the Arabic word for “god,” it’s semantically equivalent. If so, the same should hold true for similar words from other languages. You might argue that naming a specific god like Vishnu might not pass muster (although I think an argument could be made), but I think that “In Allah we trust” would be almost as defensible as having the entire text in Arabic.
Working in a rather large school district and eventually getting to point where I have somewhat more understanding and information about the inner workings of public ed, I can tell you exactly what a lot of Texas schools decided to do after that law passed and then people started donating signs: we immediately put up any sign that met the requirements and then threw them all away at the end of that same day. We have better things to worry about than trollish legislation and the trolls who troll the trolls. At the end of every single day, our main questions are "did we keep the children safe and the parents informed," and "is our children learning?"
Thank you for your genuine curiosity. And if you can, support your local public ed. There are lots of ways to help out that don't even require spending a dime! Send your kids to public school, volunteer at book fairs, register as a substitute, go to your local town hall and ask hard-hitting questions about transparency and accountability (seriously, ask your local district for the wages of every employee classification, and then go to a town hall meeting and ask why there are so many people working at central office, why people like me who work there away from the children are getting paid more than some teachers, and ask how new positions they keep adding to an already top-heavy district are helping with employee satisfaction and retention), or even run for school board (except that last one is practically an unpaid job).
Thanks very much for this! It’s fantastic advice and I really appreciate it.
My mother was a teacher (and later a union leader) for her entire career, as was my partner’s mother, and as is our best friend. I even taught for a bit (university though - I’m really not a kids kind of person).
Still, I could not begin to imagine the job you folks do. I couldn’t teach in the kind of environments that some states are creating - hence my intentionally snarky but unintentionally insensitive question.
I could certainly do more to support education, though. I live in a fairly well off area with pretty solid public education (my property taxes are about $25k per year and if I’m reading the tables correctly our teachers’ salaries run from about $90k to start (BA + 30 credits) to about $160k (BA + 45 after 12 years)). It’s also a very liberal area - there is a negative probability of a moms for liberty type being elected dog catcher, much less to the school board. I don’t think I’m bringing very much to the table there.
However, I’m going to look into seeing if I can take some of your advice and apply it to other communities in my area. Again, thanks for the eye-opener!
Register as a substitute? Do you not require a degree in education to teach where you’re from?
Depending on the school district, you may or may not. Texas has recently started allowing districts to identify themselves as a "District of Innovation," which means allowing for alternative degrees when hiring specific types of teachers. That being said, substitutes are not teachers and are not subject to the same requirements; same goes for Instructional Assistants (IAs). Both are woefully underpaid servants for the type of work they do.
State Rep. Brad Sherman, a Republican, even released a newsletter saying that the principle of church/state separation didn’t apply to this display because the state was inherently Christian. After all, he claimed, the Iowa Constitution refers to a “Supreme Being.”
According to these opening lines of our Constitution, the foundation for laws and continued blessing and success in Iowa is based on these points:
There is One Supreme God.
Blessings over this state come from the One Supreme God
We must depend upon the One Supreme God if we want to enjoy continued blessings.
It is a tortured and twisted interpretation of law that affords Satan, who is universally understood to be the enemy of God, religious expression equal to God in an institution of government that depends upon God for continued blessings. Such a legal view not only violates the very foundation of our State Constitution, but it offends the God upon whom we depend and undermines our wellbeing.
…
Therefore, based on the laws of God and the Constitution of the State of Iowa, and for the purpose of securing the blessings of God upon our state:
I am calling for our governor to have this blasphemous display removed immediately based on the grounds that it is unconstitutional and *offends God upon whom the State of Iowa depends for blessings.*
I am calling for clarifying legislation to be adopted in accordance with our State Constitution that prohibits satanic displays in our Capitol building and on all state owned property.
I am calling for legislation to be adopted that makes it legal to display the Ten Commandments in our Capitol, in all buildings owned by the state, and in our public schools.
If we want the blessings of God upon our state, we must demonstrate by our laws and actions that we are indeed depending upon Him and that we are opposed to Satan.
I'd be receptive to that if I weren't dependent on the blessings of Satan. His god sounds like a snowflake
They will remember soon enough. When a state takes a religion it is typically pressured to get very specific, and then persecute (convert or imprison / execute) those that do not conform.
This was is the crux of the issue in the troubles, which is itching to start up again.
evangelist Joel Tenney, who wanted someone fired over the inclusion and implied (in the comments) that he would personally vandalize the “grossest form of idolatry I have ever seen in my state.” He even asked his followers, “Who’s gonna bail me out?!”
No, he deliberately riled up his followers, then referenced the need for "bail money" like six different times. Guy is just after the money. Hmm, I wonder what his holy book says about money?
Whoever loves money never has enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with their income. This too is meaningless.
Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have.
You cannot serve both God and money.
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
Oops
“It is more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, than a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.”
I don’t know, seems vague…
It's a metaphor, a parable, because the wealthy can buy a really big needle, see! It's difficult because they have to ask for a custom made needle
Luckily they live in the United States of Amoneyca and they are Coinageans praying to the all mighty green and papery Georgod Washington. They can serve both God and money because they are one and the same.
There is One Supreme God.
Clearly they’re talking about Cthulhu, who is not a fan of goats.
The Black Goat of the Woods, being land-based, is clearly younger (and therefor inferior to) Dagon.
Damn thee! That scheming little bitch will crumble before the primal force that is our one true god!!!
DAMN ye! Let Neptune strike ye dead, tsonfeir! HAAAAAARRRRRK! Hark! Triton! Hark! Bellow! Bid our father, the Sea King, rise from the depths, full-foul in his fury, black waves teeming with salt-foam, to smother this young mouth with pungent slime, to choke ye, engorging your organs 'till ye turn blue and bloated with bilge and brine and can scream no more... only when, he, crowned in cockle shells with slithering tentacled tail and steaming beard, takes up his fell, be-finnèd arm – his coral-tined trident screeches banshee-like in the tempest and plunges right through yer gullet! BURSTING YE, a bulging bladder no more, but a blasted bloody film now – a nothing for the Harpies and the souls of dead sailors to peck and claw and feed upon, only to be lapped up and swallowed by the infinite waters of the Dread Emperor himself, forgotten to any man, to any time, forgotten to any god or devil, forgotten even to the sea... for any stuff or part of tsonfeir, even any scantling of your soul, is tsonfeir no more, but is now itself the sea!
Conservative projection also includes 'owning the libs'. I think everyone with an IQ passed their shoe size can agree on how eeeeeeeeasy it is to riled up conservatives. You literally only have to apply their own rules to them and nothing more. You don't even have to come up with an original idea.
“It is more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven, than a camel, to pass through the eye of a needle.”
I don’t know, seems vague…
Wow, that rep has no business being a representative when they can't even understand what separation of church and state means. And somehow are intellectually challenged enough to believe that being a "Christian state" means the law no longer applies...?
Wtf
I'm just watching here as this guy gets super-angry about blasphemy
And wondering if he realizes this is exactly why we need separation of church and state
These topics interest me because I can imagine how inflexible religious fundamentalists must be.
Like, to atheists or satanists seeing a Christian display is at most annoying.
For hardcore Christians seeing a satanic display is a literal challenge from God to be strong, to be loyal. They see it as a glitch in the matrix or some shit, like a virus.
Same as Muslims and displays of Muhammad.
They simply can't compute the continued existence of such things.
And it makes me laugh.
I haven’t heard of Christians that kill over depictions of Christ, and to my knowledge the crusades were over centuries ago
In fact, I’ve never once worried one of my actions might inspire a Christian to come and kill me, like labeling a stick figure “Muhammad” might do
You must not live in the USA, or Poland or similar places full of Christian fundamentalists who go around killing people they don't like.
Or, are you trying to pull a "no true Scotman" fallacy on us?
But nice try at moving goalposts. Fuck, it's obvious what a horrific, toxic person you are. This is why you have no friends.
Not the person you were answering, just want to butt in:
If you say "you must not live in USA or Poland" isn't that precisely what Hashtag NotAllChristians means?
Because yes, there absolutely are rabid examples of people bombing abortion clinics or 2nd amendment Christofascists from Howdy Arabia, but the majority of Christians, at least in Europe are more or less quietly doing their own thing and not even going to church outside of Easter or Christmas. So yes, definitely #NotAllChristians.
Doesn't mean I agree with them, like them or want their delusions affecting our culture, but European Christianity has been dragged into the post-enlightenment world kicking and screaming. We as a civilization reigned in the worst excesses of organized religion, doesn't mean it doesn't still happen and doesn't mean it's peaceful and okay now, but at least we are at a point where the violent looneys are few and far between.
So you agree with me? Fantastic wall of text to say that.
That means nothing to everyone else while some still kill over it
while some still kill
See? Christians are just as bad as Muslims.
Fucknuckle was trying to hate on one religion while propping up their own. That bullshit should not stand.
To be clear, it means everything to everyone. You're being an asshole bigot here. Even worse, defending Christian terrorism.
A bigoted hypocrite.
This attitude is not welcome here, or anywhere.
That you think the levels of violence are comparable is hilarious, and shows how much of a deluded bigot you are
Projection, thy name is ASeriesOfPoorChoices, quite ironically
I said the opposite. I never said the levels were comparable. In fact, I said comparing them, like you're doing, is a fucked up thing to do.
And I love how you claim -I'm- projecting. 🤣🤣
You fucking clown. 🤡 🤦
If you would like to donate to The Satanic Temple: https://thesatanictemple.com/collections/contribute-to-the-satanic-temple-campaigns
I'm just happy they're not happy. I don't even care about the satanic church, just another useless group.
It's an atheist group designed to point out religious hypocrisy. It actually has been rather useful.
I honestly don't see the hypocrisy, Satanists are using the image of the thing Christians consider to be the root of all evil. Of course Christians aren't going to like it. But keep annoying them, I like it. Just a bunch of atheists trying to trigger Christians, lol.
The hypocrisy is the state allowing christian displays on government property, but not displays from other religions.
So use a display from a "religion" they hate will either make them remove the christian imagery and preserve the separation of church and state, or make the government allow symbols form all religions and beliefs, and thus being inclusive to the population.
But... the state allowed it, didn't it? They were also allowing any other religion to participate. I'm still not seeing it.
Plus, I'm also not seeing how this is pushing the division between state and religion. They'll obviously include the Satanists before they stop having affairs with Christianity. So this is just annoying Christians, there's no grand scheme.
You could refute this by showing me evidence of an instance in which the Satanisc church succeeded in dividing church and state. The instance from the post isn't one of them.
You could look it up on wikipedia if you want. It’s pretty easy to stop saying wrong things on the internet, if you’re interested enough to fact check your statements. Personally I really like knowing facts instead of just making guesses.
Didn't find any accomplishment in their wiki page. Did you read it?
Do you have evidence of their accomplishments in regards to the separation of state and church?
If I asked for the evidence is because I couldn't find it, but you just went straight to assuming I didn't look for it, for some reason.
You read the campaigns and initiatives section of the satanic temple page on Wikipedia and didn’t find any accomplishments?
the principle of church/state separation didn’t apply to this display because the state was inherently Christian. After all, he claimed, the Iowa Constitution refers to a “Supreme Being.”
But they weren't being inclusive this time.
And it was used successfully in Oklahoma, and is ongoing in Arkansas:
I want to clear one thing up, there are two main religious groups centered around Satan.
The first is The Satanic Temple which is a secular religion based around holding government accountable when they overstep into the religious side of things, which is obviously against the constitution.
The second is the Church of Satan, which doesn’t really get involved in politics, and doesn’t actually believe in Satan.
They are two different entities, with two very different end goals.
The Satanic Temple generally uses their position as the antithesis to Christianity to pressure government departments to keep distance between themselves and religious institutions. For instance, if government committees open with a prayer, they'll ask that sometimes it is a Satanic prayer (and have made one for just such an occasion).
The TST is generally atheist, even if Satan did give us Rock-＆-Roll and Dungeons ＆ Dragons.
The Satanic Church is Laveyan Satanism and different than the Satanic Temple. Laveyan Saranism is mostly just about individualism, and is too Ayn Randish for my liking. The Satanic Temple is just an awesome group of atheists and agnostic people that advocates for rational thought and the separation of church and state.
The Satanic Temple uses Satanic imagery and symbolism mostly just to scare the Christian politicians and legislators into voting to remove their own symbols and laws from legislation. That and also because it looks cool. They also provide religious exemption to members for medical reasons and non-Christian holidays and such.
They do a lot of good things, like fight for the separation of church and state, reproductive rights, and equality. It's mostly just a big club of nice goth kids who generally want to make the world a better place. I have been a "member" for years, but I have only really gone to a few meetups and park cleanups with my local congregation.
If anyone is interested to "join", it's completely free for anyone to claim membership, and use them for religious exemptions, etc. They have a membership card and certificate for a 25 dollar donation on their website. If you want to participate in their activities, find your local congregation on their website, and join their community on whatever chat app that they use. I found it to be one of the most welcoming communities, and they are always doing good things and fun events.
I like your lack of toxicity, now I feel bad for being the way I am. Anyways, I wanted to learn about instances in which the church of satan has promoted the separation of state and church, beyond just annoying or triggering Christians. I mean actual legislation.
Is there any place where I can find this information?
So, I don't think that The Church of Satan has done anything to affect legislation, as that group is more about promoting self worship, and not really about legal advocacy at all.
The Satanic Temple has done quite a few things on the state level in different areas of the country. My state chapter has gotten rid of Christian brainwashing clubs in public schools, and fought to have Christian symbolism removed from our courtrooms.
If you look here on the Satanic Temple website, the top of the page is filled with different ongoing legal battles against different state governments that are currently underway. A lot of the congregations are focused on advocating for the right to perform abortion on religious grounds, currently.
I just read the "Christmas Message" from our CEO, I will paraphrase, "thanks God for sending your son Jesus to save us!" Wish I could quit.