And the picture itself is just a randomly generated picture of a money or a picture of Donald Trump photoshopped into something from the first page of Google images.
Holding an NFT can give you ownership of an image. If you have a bored ape NFT you own some legal rights to the image.
That's because of contract law, and IP law. A contract assigns the copyright to the holder of the NFT, and governments enforce legal contracts.
The only thing that gives NFTs any claim to value is the fact that a centralized authority can enforce it. The entire concept behind the decentralized leaderless authority of the blockchain is a myth.
Yeah you can own an NFT but you can own any image through a license agreement with the owner.
Hey at least then you own a domain name and all of its subdomains and can make them point whatever you want and host whatever you want out of them. When you buy an NFT you own one URL on an image hosting site, whose content you don't even control.
fair enough, but $12/yr for something I can do whatever I want with vs several grand once for an immutable monkey JPEG that i cannot do anything with except sell to someone else...
Nope! Not even that. Just an agreement between the scam arti- sorry, seller and the dumbfuc- sorry, buyer, that the rights to something have changed hands. Nothing more, nothing less.
No they aren't NFTs are recipts. That is all they are. They can have a connection to images or physical goods but they only proove that you bought a recipt and not actual ownership.
Sort of except it means nothing. It's like having a deed with absolutely no legal weight.
If I buy a microwave and try and return it with only the receipt they won't give me a refund because I only bought the receipt. I could sell the receipt, sure it says you bought it but I am keeping the microwave.
If the deed was scribbled with crayons by a hobo and the house would be imaginary. That would be comparable to NFTs.
No, because an NFT just tells you were the picture is on the block chain. In theory If you had access to the block chain and another picture you can just change the picture stored at that point
In theory If you had access to the block chain and another picture you can just change the picture stored at that point
In theory if you had access to your bank's safe you could just take out money.
Well, you dont.
The point was that if you had access to it, you could do some bad stuff but you wont ever have access to it.
You cant have access to the blockchain so you couldnt change anything. Saying "if i had access to the blockchain,..." is like saying "if I had access to your stuff, I could steal it". Yeah, thats right but that doesnt mean anything...
Some hacker needs to make it a mission to replace every Bored Ape and Trump Card NFT with Goatse.
You don't even buy the photo, you buy the hyperlink to the photo. In a sense, your buying the treasure map to gold, but you can't have the gold.
Its like buying gold on the stock market pretty much. You cant have it in your hands but you still own it and it has value
NFTs are just USED for pictures. They actually had potential to solve real world problems, but jetzt isch d Katz de Bååm nuff as we say in hohenlohe.
NFTs
Note: this is how you spell it. Apostrophes are for possession & contraction …not making words plural.
Correction:
That's not true, clearly an apo'strophe mean's: "watch out, here come's an 's!"
That's not true. Apostrophes can be used to make acronyms plural, and there are cases where not doing so is clearly wrong (e.g. Oakland A's)
No style guide says this. The only exception I have ever seen is single letters, and even that is up to interpretation.
Came here to say this. It's a silly way to look at it, but these dorks are basically saying "no, using the 'internet' is not going to catch on silly techies." It's a kind of technology, not a vehicle specific to capitalism or big funds. NFTs could be proof of ownership over anything.
Consumers want true ownership, even if it requires a kind of tokenized-receipts system.
Bold statement.
I would argue that just because something that could work doesn't mean it is the best fit for the job for one reason or another.
We have multiple programming languages, database, filesystem, media formats etc...etc... Those also generally perform the same thing but some do certain things better and you pick whatever one best fits your needs.
why can block chain and go both existing and fit whatever role best fits them?
Not saying block chain / NFTs are the answer to ownership tracking just saying we shouldn't write them off just because something else might work.
New technologies are great but sometimes you're just reinventing the wheel by creating a more complicated and energy expensive wheel.
I personally view crypto and the crypto boom as an experiment in unfettered capitalism - it's still a new technology, the governments haven't caught up to it yet so no regulations, yet quite literally 99% of crypto usage was in trying to take advantage of others (scams) and speculation.
The only thing with actual value that came out of crypto was probably Monero, which allowed for completely anonymous payments, something that crypto, when paired with crypto exchanges, is bad at.
That being if you can get yourself some Monero anonymously. I can see valid use cases for that, for example in the drug busines...
Maybe I'm not very knowledgable, but even Monero seems sketchy to me. I've clicked into what I thought were blogs about privacy that ended up being sites that exist only to promote Monero, once you look into them. That and the way certain accounts will do nothing but praise Monero just seems very greasy to me. I also wonder how it solves some of the other problems inherent to crypto, such as the environmental concerns.
For things like drugs like the person mentioned below, I don't think I'd trust someone who didn't just use cash.
The level of the NFT craze was kind of wild though. I remember watching this Hot Ones interview with Mila Kunis where she mentioned "connecting with the audience through NFTs" and "the audience owns the art to the show".
https://youtu.be/NAeOzDhL6tc?t=1m55s
At the time I remember thinking that I don't really understand how that would work in practice or what value NFTs really bring to this situation. I just assumed I didn't understand. Turns out...nobody did. It's just a bunch of bullshit.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/NAeOzDhL6tc?si=it3vFINprPvt8ExV?t=115s
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Onion routing (like Tor) is the default for the Lightning Network. Every crypto that supports it already has private payments, including Bitcoin.
There's no way to validate the total supply of Monero. So if it ever has a supply bug (like Bitcoin's value overflow incident), then it won't be detected and patched.
Monero has mechanisms for validating supply:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vW9H6VIONWM&t=174s
If you're going to repeat this argument ad nauseam then at least don't do it in a misleading absolutist way.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://m.piped.video/watch?v=vW9H6VIONWM&t=174s
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I don't 100% disagree with him. Like he said, it is an additional risk. Assuming no supply bugs, you can validate what is published.
I just disagree with him that it's "near zero probability". This already did happen with Bitcoin and we only caught it because we weren't assuming zero supply bugs. Bugs happen and we're talking about the future money supply for all humans.
Edit to add: and BTW it's not just cryptography bugs (rare), but anything related to validation (like value overflow)
I was pretty shocked when I found out that NFT pictures aren't even stored in the block chain. NFTs are just records on the block chain with links to images stored on ordinary servers.
This is because you (in theory) need the whole blockchain to validate an NFT, so you want to keep it as small as possible.
But since you store the Cryptographic Hash of the image too, you can validate that the image on the server is actually the same one referenced by the blockchain. You could even move it to another server, but it will break the link obviously
Except you don't own that server and have no control over it, and if the server owner takes the image offline you're screwed
It does not really matter. You’ve still got the JPEG (or whatever else). Just calculate the hash and you can proof that it’s the one referenced.
There are now Bitcoin Ordinals, which are similar to NFTs but with a sufficient size limit to actually store the media itself.
I’m pretty sure you could always store a full image in an NFT on ethereum, it’d just cost stupid high transaction fees.
Interesting, but the scarcity this is trying to manufacture still doesn't apply to the image itself which can be easily and endlessly copied.
FWIW nobody who is actually knowledgeable about crypto ever thought anything positive about NFTs. It's all just wallstreetbets types who read one article and think they're economists now. The tech is interesting and has applications but monkey jpegs are what idiots spent millions on for some reason.
The tech is interesting and has applications
I used to say that, but I've given up on that idea. I've never seen a use of blockchain yet that didn't boil down to being virtual money. NFTs could have had potential as a method of trade if they were tied to real ownership of things instead of just receipts saying you bought a cartoon monkey jpeg.
But every time I think something would be a problem blockchain solves, I can always think of an existing, typically better, solution to that same problem. I think that space is too infested with grifters to attract anyone with a truly novel idea.
You're getting downvoted by cryptobros, but you are absolutely correct, there is no good use for block chain and never will be
It's a fully public database among trustless parties. To the first point, there's no reason any database can't be made public if so desired. To the second point, for the block chain to have any meaning or value beyond itself, some authority eventually needs to interpret its contents. That authority might as well hold the database or, in trustless cases, a third party trustee. Nothing about it makes sense at a very base level, you don't even need to explain the tech because it just doesn't hold up logically.
I've never seen a use of blockchain yet that didn't boil down to being virtual money.
A classic bitcoin article agrees with you: It's Not About the Technology, It's About the Money
Nobody who is knowledgeable about crypto ever thought dogecoin was anything but a meme coin or pump and dump scheme. They would have known it offered zero benefits technologically over existing cryptos. Some may have bought it to cash in on the crazy market surrounding it, but they never thought doge was the future or anything. The people who thought that were the "i read one article and I'm a crypto expert now" crowd referenced in my original comment.
I viewed it as more of a donation to see the stupid meme on Nascar or other dumb sponsorships.
I think the entire boom it had was from regular people, people who specifically weren't knowledgeable about crypto.
The same will happen any time a "get rich quick" scheme comes around. People saw things going up 100% in price from one day to the next, compared to a 2% per year savings account. That's very enticing for anyone.
This one was at an impressive scale though. Probably because it was so accessible. I'd have my BIL in South America telling me he's playing a game that mines some random coin. Can't really say much other than to be sceptical and never risk more than you can afford to lose.
People saw things going up 100% in price from one day to the next, compared to a 2% per year savings account. That’s very enticing for anyone.
And that's the entire problem...by the time things go up in price by 100%, the people that will make money have already made it. Getting in at that point is useless, and will likely lose money.
Cryptobros incoming to tell us all the real-world problems blockchain's going to solve any day now in 3... 2...
The point of blockchains is decentralization, and as Lemmy users we know that decentralized services are difficult to make popular, even if they're an improvement over their competitors.
Physical money is just metal, plastic and paper.
The problem is the virtual value we give certain things.
Crypto Bros Losers would be really mad at reading that, if they weren't busy fellating the owners of BoredApes after they made them blind.
...
What? No, that's not a joke.
https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/6/23948464/bored-ape-nft-event-eye-injury-sunburn-uv-exposure
"Had a good time with the homies who also got their eyes burned". These people are unbelievably down there in the pathetic human scale.
What the fuck. I've been to many, many clubs and shows with creative lighting, and never once heard of or experienced a problem like this. This had to be reckless ignorance on the event planners to result in something like this. Holy shit.
"This comment is an NFT and if you screenshot this I will sue your ass without hesitation. Please paypal me 4500 USD if you would like this comment, and don't mess with me. I got my whole crypto gang on my side. We will fuck you up if you try stealing this comment, so don't fuck with us."
"This comment is an NFT and if you screenshot this I will sue your ass without hesitation. Please paypal me 4500 USD if you would like this comment, and don't mess with me. I got my whole crypto gang on my side. We will fuck you up if you try stealing this comment, so don't fuck with us."
To be fair most art is just pictures (using the term picture loosely). That's not why the nft is dumb.
I think NFT's had some promise for stuff you actually have to own (not some ape pictures). Like a digital version for maybe an invitation or tickets or if done properly (by your countries government for example) maybe even for stuff like licenses (i.e. driving license, welding license etc.) Or identification (passport, id, etc.)
For government documents you need nothing but a plain old certificate to create a digital signature. If there is a single instance of trust (such as a government) there absolutely no point in using a blockchain.
Decentral NFTs for concert tickets would only make sense if you were looking for a solution to liberate the second market, i.e. people selling tickets to other people without involvement of the host of the concert. Such a model is neither beneficial for the hosts (as they wouldn't benefit from the second market sales) nor the visitors (as the second market typically leads to even higher prices). If you meant a way to return/trade tickets on a platform controlled by the host / the original issuer of the tickets, then there's again no need at all for crypto aside plain old, stupid certificates.
Even in single instances of trust there can be advantages to using blockchain for those applications:
There are some fringe benefits for blockchain but massive issues with normal human issues like:
Scams/theft: person has the wallet lost through scam or left, how do you invalidate the lost credentials or tickets.
Wallet loss: loss through any number of means: fire, incompetence, computer being destroyed, loss of account to cloud backup etc
Issuer need to invalidate: if tickets/credentials were purchased by fraud or an issue occurs where they need to invalidate
How does blockchain handle these common situations?
The government would obviously be in charge of the blockchain in a very strong way. You would do the exact same process you would to replace a stolen license.
Scams/theft: person has the wallet lost through scam or left, how do you invalidate the lost credentials or tickets.
In these examples, we are talking about credentials issued by a central authority. That authority can re-issue new credentials and invalidate old ones. Easy peasy.
If we're talking about the risk that people have their crypto stolen in general, yes it does carry that risk same as cash. There are several strategies to mitigate this: people can park larger amounts at institutions if they want or they can use things like multi-sig wallets. You have one smaller pot of money which is your everyday spending wallet which you (or somebody who gains access to it) can spend from whenever you want, and one which is "multi-sig" meaning at least one of your trusted friends/family members/etc also has to sign off if money moves out of that account. You can have multiple people on the multi-sig wallet and set the rules for example 2 of 5 friends or what have you. You wouldn't leave $10,000 in your phone's mobile wallet just like you wouldn't carry a briefcase with $10,000 in cash on the subway. Small money in your spending wallet, big money in your multi-sig.
This is similar to how one stores money normally. You have some cash in your wallet and you put the rest in a bank. In order to withdraw significant money from your bank account, the bank is going to undertake some kind of investigation to make sure it's actually you. This might be checking your ID at the teller for example. They might also include some type of fraud guarantees where they will cover any losses you experience. That kind of a system is not incompatible with blockchain and I expect with time industries will appear to mitigate these kinds of risks from an insurance perspective.
Also, generally speaking, no system is going to completely eliminate theft and fraud. 99% of the fraud and theft committed over human history has been done using traditional currency, including the kinds of fraud that aren't even called fraud because the "right people" are doing them like bank bailouts or market manipulation. Even highly-credentialed systems like Paypal are rife with fraud, ask any ebay seller. So we can't expect crypto or any other technology to eliminate it either, there will always be some. The best we can do is try to find technological, social, and educational methods for reducing it.
Wallet loss: loss through any number of means: fire, incompetence, computer being destroyed, loss of account to cloud backup etc
Same risks as cash, multi-sig or institutional holdings as explained above can solve this.
Issuer need to invalidate: if tickets/credentials were purchased by fraud or an issue occurs where they need to invalidate
Same as answer 1
The downtime issue for identities is already solved with a government certificate and distributed certificate revocation list. As long as multiple independent parties are mirroring the government’s list, taking down the government servers would not affect identity verification. Certificate Transparency solves the CA compromise problem since you have a log of all issued certs.
Every single one of the examples you gave relies on some single centralized authority to give it value. Passports and licences are meaningless without a government. Tickets rely on the venue.
I have not heard anyone mention any application for NFTs that would work better than a database run by the agency that is required to give the document value.
Blockchain is a solution in search of a problem.
The problem IS the centralized authority. Can you forever trust a government to not artificially inflate or deflate the value of a currency? The whole point was to have a system with no single authority. No single point of failure.
It is, however, not perfect. The volatility, limited number of transacrions per second , and reliance on an incredible amount of energy expense were the largest of these when the original bitcoin concept was created. Some of these issues have solutions, but its still an evolving technology.