Funny, on release day, I got downvoted for pointing out they pulled a Blizzard/Overwatch 2.
Half-baked release with missing content and no new content? Check.
Release removes previous release, a game that was at one time a paid game? Check.
I feel like Valve gets way too much of a pass here on this for just being Valve.
Because it's nowhere near the same. Is it a bad release? Yes. Is it overwatch2 bad? No, not even close.
For the example: even tho it's true that CSGO used to be a paid game, it had been free for 5 years and before that it was 15$, not 40 or however much was ow.
Cs2 comes with a whole new engine which changes a bunch of things, unlike ow2 which is just an upgraded version of the same stuff; same errors, same stuff, basically.
OW2 also made everything in the game more expensive to buy. Etc.
For the example: even tho it’s true that CSGO used to be a paid game, it had been free for 5 years and before that it was 15$, not 40 or however much was ow.
I think you're missing the point. It doesn't matter what the price point was. People paid for these games. The game going "free" isn't a valid justification for being like "its okay this product you paid for is being taken from you."
Would you feel the same about any other product in your life? Why is it justified when that something you paid for being taken from you is "a game."
Cs2 comes with a whole new engine which changes a bunch of things
Yeah, a lot less content than CS:GO and no new content. Seems like they could have let it bake longer before release.
So at what point (in your opinion) does it become okay to discontinue a paid game? Are they supposed to still be running servers for games from 1997, so the 2 people who still remember it can occasionally log into the dead matchmaking service for nostalgia? Obviously this is a ridiculous example, but if your answer isn't "Yes, they should", then that means there's a point somewhere between that and now when it's okay to shut down the service, so where is that line?
They could have just left it in people's libraries with the option of people using community servers, something that a lot of gaming companies have traditionally done. They give the server software to the players, who then spin up community servers and keep the game going. There was literally nothing stopping them from just leaving a game that no longer functions in the Steam library.
You can still buy Titanfall on Steam and have it in your library and last I checked, multiplayer for that game hasn't worked in years. EA isn't pulling it from people's libraries because of that.
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That is literally what they've done. The default is CS2, but you can select a beta version in steam which enables CS:GO again. Matchmaking servers are all migrated to CS2, ofcourse, but community servers still work.
The reason they replaced CS:GO with CS2 instead of creating a seperate game is to not split the playerbase. Back when CS:Source released, the playerbase was essentially split in half, with many choosing to remain on CS 1.6, and it took a lot of effort to make CS:GO the standard.
Gamers: everybody expect steam is terrible
Steam: does the same shitty practices as the other companies gamers were complaining about
Gamers: no this is actually a good thing
They’re not going to maintain two separate codebases just so people can have community servers. That’s ridiculous.
Companies don't need to run servers for old games nobody plays but it is a crime against art and the people who worked on and enjoyed any of that material. All of the wonderful content made specifically for these games is just dead now while the company could've just released a way to self host the game. There is NO reason any game ever should die and any excuse otherwise is just feeding into the pockets of companies that want to kill history.
So games should never go free or even discounted because someone else paid full price ten years ago? That's just stupid. Let alone, CS2 is essentially a new game that's being released for free. Your only valid complaint is the content, maybe. Maybe they plan on releasing content and had focused more on quality during development.
So games should never go free or even discounted because someone else paid full price ten years ago?
That's an intentional misreading of what I'm saying. The issue isn't that it went Free to Play. The issue is that before that, a number of people paid for the product and then later that product that they paid for was removed from their library entirely.
Being replaced with a game that's Free to Play from the get-go isn't the same thing. It's simply not the product that was paid for.
Would you feel similarly about a physical product that a company took away from you because they were changing it? Not because the product caused any danger, but because they were giving you a newer one, with fewer features, but looked nicer? You wouldn't feel like losing access to things you paid for in the original was a problem? Why is it justified to take away something that was paid for when it's a game?
I stopped playing CSGO when they added the r8, which I felt changed the game in a way I didn't like. Why weren't you mad then, the game was certainly not what I paid for? It's almost like you paid with the expectation that the game would continue getting updates, they have the right to change the price in the meantime.
Also you can absolutely still play CSGO if you want.
Also you can absolutely still play CSGO if you want.
Yeah if you want to use an obscure feature like steam console to get the latest verison or using beta to get an older verison, instead of you know releasing a fucking separate steamid for a game that is reporting itself as a "Sequel" and don't get me started with them piggy backing off of CSGO's reviews. Imagine if some game like Supreme Commander did that bullshit. Where you had the beloved first game and welp with the sequel out we should all replace it so it can use the same reviews even though the 2nd game was universally panned. This is so assbackwards and noone should stand up for this behavior. Valve is mostly awesome but they botched this release and did it in one of the worst ways possible. People fucking play CS 1.6 and Source still would it be right if they were just disappeared as well but able to be pulled up via download some obscure Steam depot. Hell I have an even better one Half life 1, very loved game but Half Life 1 Source an apparently upgrade that was fucking garbage at launch and still garbage to this day. Would it have been right for Valve to say if you bought the default way to play Half life 1 now is via source only. Noone with a working brain would want that.
How is the game becoming f2p equivalent to it being taken away from you?
Do you feel the same every 2 years when the new wow expansion releases and the previous one becomes free?
Do you feel the same whenever a product you bought for full price goes on sale?
How is the game becoming f2p equivalent to it being taken away from you?
Oh, it's not. The game being removed from my library is equivalent to it being taken away from me.
It's not removed. You can still access latest CS:GO version via beta tab in game properties. Is it inconvenient? Yes. Is it shit that achievements for CSGO were removed? Yes. But you can still play it, and play on community servers.
Hey so results online say that you can only play against bots in that game? Can you refute that only cause im going to base my full opinion on your answer
From what I've saw, Valve servers are offline so no official MM. You can play with bots, and play on community servers, but you have to connect via "connect" command in console, because community server browser is broken.
It's literally not the same product.
Going Free to Play is fine. Going Free to Play and then outright removing it from the library of someone who paid for it is not, in my opinion.
Don't know how much this has to be explained to people but it wasn't removed. You can still play it by enabling beta clients in CS2 settings. You just can't use matchmaking but community servers still work.
Im feeling the same for every product the broke at one point in my life, for every food I have digested and for all the DVDs I bought in the early 2000s... things change and to have played $15 10 years ago for a game that is now f2p is nothing to cry about. Especially because you can still play it.
Is it a bad release?
Uh is it? It literally has the 2nd highest concurrent players of any game on steam ever. it made what, 40mil in a few hours. Sure some old players are a little mad, but that is literally unavoidable, and I don't think they are dropping the game, just complaining.
There's a difference between bad and unsuccessful. It's still a good game because despite all the people complaining about all the lost shit, most of it wasn't being used that much anyway. Plus, unlike OW2, cs2 will get back all the stuff lost back and then some. So yeah, it's gonna be fine.
By your own argument, CS2 is worse than Overwatch. CS2 removed over half of the maps, features, and the gameplay is way worse. Overwatch gameplay was pretty similar, although switching to 5v5 has its problems. It ran the same on the same hardware. The biggest change was the economy which doesn't affect gameplay. I feel like I completely lost access to CS, but I played OW2 for months until the gameplay problems with the meta became more apparent.
Funny I consider OW2 a better upgrade than CS2. But maybe because OW1 had a worse starting point. The game needed a total rebalancing and that was what OW2 was about. Yes it's not something they needed a "new" game for but it still made the game 10x more fun for me. CS2 doesn't seem like it's provided any rebalancing at all, feels basically just like a visual update (which OW2 also had). As a super casual player that only played a couple hundred hours years ago, I can't really tell the difference with the new engine (besides smoke mechanics) so the changes feel way less dramatic. But I'm definitely having fun revisiting CS. Also I can see why people would be more mad about OW2 monetization because CSGO has always farmed people for money whereas OW1 gave a ton of free skins. Now they kinda feel like they're at the same level 🫤
OW1 was better in every single aspect. A lot of new interactions make no sense, there are way too many animations now with the new heroes and the matchmaking and ranked system is broken. That is on top of the completely asshole move to F2P with the deletion of the objectively better paid predecessor for players who paid for it..
I've been having a ball with CS2, and I think releasing at it as a separate game to CSGO would only fragment the player base.
Sure, but a fragmented player base impacts Valve's bottom line more than anything else, so I don't understand why this is an argument.
Oh no! A few thousand players will stay on the old game while the new one will still absolutely dominate the charts because people like new and novel.
Genuinely, who would that deeply affect outside of Valve trying to make sure the player base is all on the current game to make the most money? Why are we defending business practices that are clearly aimed at making the most profit at the expense of customer service?
Weren't we all supposed to be Valve fans because we expect better of them?
Its not true. A fragmented playerbase hurts everyone. I was there in the Source vs CS 1.6 days. Source and 1.6 were basically completely seperate communities, which were only really unified when CS:GO came out.
Imagine getting the new CS only to find out all your friends refuse to move to the new game, so you have to go there too if you want to play with them and learn everything anew just when you learned the ropes in the new game. A terrible new user experience, which hampers growth, which leads to a dying game.
Updating a hugely successful game is always difficult. Should you cater to the "old guard"? Absolutely. But when they are a contentious bunch who hate change, you just have to force them, or they will paint themselves into a corner, completely isolating themselves from new players. They would probably see this as a win too: no annoying "n00bs".
This would be exactly the situation that developed between 1.6 and Source.
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It does not work for me. It downloads the update, but still starts CS2. There are no launch options.
It's a shame that Valve couldn't get Steam to issue them a new AppID, so they had to delete CSGO in order to put CS2 on the store. It was the only way.
The reason they did this is because they had a huge hassle getting everyone to move over back when they moved CS to the source engine. They didn't want that hassle again, so CS2 is even installed in the CS:GO folder. This is the first time they've ever pulled anything like this, but the reasoning is because they didn't want to create ANOTHER esport division, they just wanted CS2 to replace CS:GO for esports.
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I get why they'd do that but it's a shame we can't play CS:GO anymore like we can 1.6 and Source.
That was not the reason. The reason are the skins. I only own a few skins (and old cases) and they a worth over 500 €. There are a lot of players with an inventory worth thousands. So, what now, after you release a new iteration? Clone every player's Inventar? Forcefully transfer every Skin from CSGO to CS2? Or delete the old iteration. Valve did the last, same with Dota Reborn a few years ago.
We should condemn Valve for protecting their stupid gambling mechanism...
The reason they did this is because they had a huge hassle getting everyone to move over back when they moved CS to the source engine.
You missed a generation there. CS 1.6 -> CS:Source -> CS:GO.
This isn't in response to people not moving over to the Source engine, there wasn't much issue with that - although 1.6 still lingered on for a long time and people did complain, many people were excited by the Source engine and all the new physics it introduced, so people did buy Half Life 2 (with CS:S) even if they preferred to play CS 1.6. However with CS:GO it was different, there were no significant new features except the hat-ification and skins along the lines of Team Fortress 2, also CS:GO was just a standalone game rather than bundled. So many people did not move to CS:GO.
there were no significant new features except the hat-ification and skins along the lines of Team Fortress 2
Skins and cases were not in release CSGO. The release and beta features of CSGO were supposed to be controller support and cross-platform play with consoles.
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They did this with 1.6 and the source Mac update previously. They've just completely changed the game and the feature set before it's nothing new. This time they just change the name of the game with it, instead of claiming a balance patch.
It has nothing to do with consumer choice. It has to do with maintaining the servers and infrastructure to run these games. Patching and updating one game is way easier than doing it for multiple games. It’s the same thing that they did when CS went from a mod to a standalone game on Steam. Everyone was on the same version and, despite some people begrudgingly getting dragged along, was really what turned CS into the behemoth it was.
It’s the same thing that they did when CS went from a mod to a standalone game on Steam.
No it isn't. Valve did not make CS 1.6, CS 1.6 was a user-created mod. Valve did then hire the mod makers to help make the Source engine (just like DICE hired the Desert Combat modders to make Battlefield 2), but Valve had no involvement with CS in its inception, nor its maintenance pre-Source. Hell, both CS 1.6 and CS:Source primarily ran on user servers, so there wasn't even any significant upkeep costs.
CS 1.6 pre-dates Steam. CS:S was Valve, but both games did not have any servers or infrastructure to manage, beyond a simple exchange server that catalogued everyone's game servers (also VAC, if the server host enabled it). It's CS:GO that started having a big back end. Your point is valid, but only for CS:GO.
It's kind of surprising how so many people in here have the history muddled.
I don’t have anything mixed up and you’re not right. The mod was only pre-Valve when it was still in beta. They hired Minh right around Beta 5. When Valve made CS 1.0 (way before CS 1.6) part of the official Valve catalog, they set up official servers but you could still set up community servers. When Steam came out, they required that it be run through Steam which forced everyone onto the same version of both the client and the server. You could still spin up your own server using an older version but you the game wouldn’t be listed in the game’s browser. You had to use Gamespy or HLServerWatch.
Steam forced everyone to update. It’s not 100% analogous to this situation but going from mod to standalone fractured the playerbase and codebase. This was clearly a move to prevent that from happening again. I’m indifferent to it but obviously everyone isn’t.
It's about forcing everyone to switch
You can still play CS 1.6, you don't even need clouds for that one. You can play CS source. In this case they wanted to carry the momentum live the good little service game that they are. Technical reasons are superficial smokescreens.
They know every time they made a release some people didn't want to switch and stayed behind.
Yes, it is about forcing everyone to switch and I’m sorry but you sound completely ignorant of what goes into a game like CS that is used in professional esports. CS1.6 and CS:Source are locked codebases. There are no official servers for them. They are standalone server games only. They are not getting updates unless there are some major exploits. CS:GO is the official, active codebase and its the same codebase as CS2, upgraded to Source2.
It has nothing to do “clouds” (a term you’re not even using correctly) and technical reasons are the entirety of the reasons. They’re not smokescreens. They are exactly why they did what they did - to maintain 1 active codebase that everyone playing uses. That’s it. There’s no mystery or conspiracy.
but the reasoning is because they didn’t want to create ANOTHER esport division, they just wanted CS2 to replace CS:GO for esports.
So Valve is fully on the "fuck the consumers, our esports money is more important" bandwagon, huh? I paid for CS:GO years ago, and this feels like some kind of bait and switch.
Like, who does having CS:GO and CS2 around at the same time hurt except Valve? Literally nobody. Nobody is hurt by having both games available.
They could have killed the official servers and still made it that CS:GO had to use community servers. Like, how would have that split the community when official servers would no longer exist?
Every reason people come up with comes down to: Valve is more interested in profit than honoring the fact that the game was on sale for six fucking years and free to play for five. It was a sold product for longer than it was a free product, but I guess everyone who bought a copy for six years running can go fuck themselves, according to Valve.
This is a joke, and the "reason" Valve had for it is a shitty anti-consumer reason. There is literally not a single reason they did this that was to benefit the people playing the game. Everything was about money and their esports division.
If you're not upset about this, you're a corporate bootlicking fucking idiot.
I don't see it as very anti-consumer that every skin and statrak item has been brought along to the new game. I agree it would be nice to be able to play the old one, but I'd rather the option to torrent old clients and host my own dedicated server on the old one than be forced to upgrade to the new one. They don't host it anymore, pirate away Who cares?
This release has sucked ass, CS:sources release sucked ass, Condition Zero as a whole sucked ass, and ask anyone old enough, the move to 1.6 from 1.5 sucked ass.
I still expect it to end up a good game, just like 1.6 and source eventually was.
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no, cs2 was always made to be update over csgo
Just read the offical blog post, it's not a different game, but huge update over it
I even remember them saying that they will update CS:GO with source engine 2... Which they literally did.
People got mad because it got a new name too for beta testing. "CS:GO 2"
What? Oh no why deleting the old game
I bought CSGO in 2015 and never had the chance to actually install it, do I get some extra content in cs2 or everything is lost?
why deleting the old game
Because it's a multiplayer game and they don't want to split the userbase.
And why is that anyones problem but Valve's?
Who else is hurt by having it split?
It doesn't hurt the players to have it split, so it feels like you are defending anti-consumer business practices just because its Valve.
I'm not defending anyone, it's just a fact. In my opinion it would be tolerable if they didn't cut content and if the performance was on par with the previous game.
Players are hurt from having it split. Way more so than Valve. In fact, I fail to see why Valve would be gaining anything, they aren't selling the missing parts.
When a game updates, do you keep matchmaking servers up for every old edition of the game? Place people in a different queue for every hotfix version they are on? When the game is updated often over a lifespan of 12 years? Then no one would be in any matchmaking, let alone enough people of your skill level.
If they marketed this as "CSGO: Source 2 engine update" people wouldn't be whining, so I don't understand why people go out of their way to make a big deal about this. We knew not all the content would be available at release when they completely rewrote and modernized the game's code.
And no anti-consumer business practices involved. You CAN play csgo still, if you want to. Sure, it's inconvenient to download an old version of the game to run, but it is also inconvenient to download an old version of any game to run in every case. Anyone saying CSGO is unplayable and "that's unfair because I paid for it" is maliciously spreading misinformation.
If you bought CSGO, you automatically got access to prime mode when the game went free to play.
It's a separate matchmaking pool that puts you in servers filled with only other people who also bought the game, substantially reducing the likelihood of encountering cheaters and bots who just make endless free accounts.
This also carries over into CS2 as far as I'm aware.
Wait… what the fuck? Who cones up with those shitty ideas?
How about you make a game good enough that people switch from the older one willingly instead of forcing it down their throats?
they were never going to be able to release a totally new game without a lot of backlash from the addict skin trading communities. They wouldn't want to risk their free income from the whales by splitting the player base and eventually shunning the skin investors stuck on the old game.
Played hours on CS2 yesterday... ran perfectly fine on my Arch installation... haven't experienced these issues...
Yeah... That might be something on your end then, because me and my friend both use Linux, and we've also had no issue.
It is possible. I am not a hardcore gamer, I play occasionally and so far everything went smoothly via Steam, but now my only chance to play is this:
Edit: typo
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It's pretty borked on Linux for some people, especially if you have a lower end computer. I understand there are major updates that will take more power, but it's difficult to get consistency from the game whatsoever. I'm guessing the Vulkan renderer for the Source 2 engine needs to be better optimized.
Ong why did they not just keep csgo on steam and release cs2 beside it or wait until cs2 is atleast playable on linux
To keep thousands of now irrelevant reviews, allow themselves to remonetize content and jumpstart a player base that now has no other choice but to switch.
yo we're not talking about blizzard, we're talking about valve here and they are not scumbags like that, I think you're being a little harsh
CSGO is still in CS2's beta channel on Steam as csgo_demo_viewer or something like that, but obviously limited to community servers/offline play, no official dedicated servers.
May have something to do with keeping the appid the same. My guess is this was done because of how skins work on the backend. I don't know for sure though. They should have done more testing on Linux however. It will be interesting to see what they do going forward.
The game was unplayable on linux 2 days after release no matter how good your pc was. It is fine now though.
Why is everybody so upset at the CS2 update. It was my impression that besides a few new maps and menu updates that the primary change was the implementation of the source 2 engine. From what I've seen it doesn't appear to be that much different than the original CSGO I paid for back in the day. Or am I missing something?
It's just that it has less content than CSGO did in its late life. Some maps and game modes are missing, and some people with low-end computers are upset that they're getting poor frames.
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I could manage 40-80 frames on CS:GO on my lil thinkpad. Trying CS2, I'm getting 10-30 frames. That'd be fine if it stayed closer to the top end of the spectrum, but it stutters so much that I can hardly play whatsoever. That combined with the millions of small changes they made that I have to get used to makes it a really unfun experience. Which is sad because CS:GO is one of my comfort games
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yes, i grew up playing CS:GO. I'm from the generation where our main Counter Strike title was CS:GO. I love playing arms race high or surfing while drunk just to relax.
I also grew up with cs and the game has been anything but relaxing in its entire life :p just poking fun anyways, I can understand.
1: play CS:S or 1.6, they'll run better than CSGO on hardware that ancient anyways.
2: You can play CSGO, in the beta options, and find a Gun Game server online (browser is broken from this update, so you'll have to search online to get address). "Arms Race" was valve's new name for gungame for some reason.
2.5: combine 1 and 2. It'll be easier finding servers in CS:S right now, anyways.
2.75?: The compatibility of making CSGO available for a wide range of devices kept it from progressing, the Source 2 change is for people who have a desktop from maybe ten years ago. My low end surface from nine years ago gets similar frames as your Thinkpad, and I don't try to play games with it much anymore... but if you want to play new games, especially on the go, you gotta be expected to upgrade at some point.
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This ThinkPad is 3 years old with an AMD Zen 3 chip. It's not fantastic but i should be able to muster better frames. I'm overclocking my laptop just to hit 30 frames with consistency
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Dedicated server code is broken, server tools are broken by more than just a patch change, and tik rates are down on valve provided servers.
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There are equivalent to 33 global tiks by default. They're supposed to be more asynchronous so that might help but that just sounds like trying to hide how much load your server actually should have. They're also not dedicated when coming from valve they're using dynamic cloud hosting. That gets thrown around as dedicated for console games but that is not what I dedicated server is.
I don't know if valve calling their cloud hosting dedicated, I haven't been following since the beta. I have seen stories where sites are reporting valves dedicated servers but they don't offer dedicated servers.
From what I have seen, it handles medium and high ping much worse than CSGO. Looks almost game-breaking from some of the footage I've seen.
The long awaited game Counter Strike 2 launched as an update to the old game Counter Strike: GO. Effectively deleting CS:GO from existence. Except that CS2 doesn't work on every computer CS:GO used to work on. Meaning (at least for now) lots of people have lost access to their favorite game.
Very true.
Can't wait for Counter Strike: Alyx and the update to smoke that makes your guy cough when entering it and temporarily lose movement speed unless you hold your breath while going through it.
Gaben bursts in
"What the fuck did you just say?!? Did I hear the blasphemed number uttered in MY HOUSE!?!"
Why do I feel like giving this a month will make all of this irrelevant?
but this is a crime against God, humanity, gaming and anime!!!!
I get it, your favorite game doesn't work because of a new release. It happens. Take a ticket and sit down for a while. Valve isn't omniscient about every Linux build in existence or possible glitch on the first week of release.
Hell, TF2 has been broken on arch for almost a month without bypassing a .dll file.
I remember when games launched and generally could be expected to run, because easy patching wasn't a thing yet. They had to make sure that the games worked.
I don't like that this has moved to "well, it's just the first day, week, month, give them time to fix the game." No! When the game releases and people pay money for it, it should work!
oh you mean back in the day when games were way simpler? come on man games these days are so much more complex.
We are talking about Counter Strike. Nothing has fundamentally changed in 2 decades.
We are talking about Counter Strike 2, a complete rewrite of the game's code for a new game engine. EVERYTHING has fundamentally changed over the last year.
Welp you can just use no steam servers. And hope they are not full of hackers. And you cant play it officially competetive
Faceit is more competitive. It's harder to get faceit lvl 10 than global. Also, last time I tried csgo, it wouldn't let me do official server matchmaking because apparently it wasn't supported on Linux yet. However, that was during beta so maybe it's changed.
Premier mode if the new competitive pick and ban system with ELO, there is no global. Also official matchmaking now works with the full release
I played a casual game and got kicked. If it was ranked, I would understand, but it was casual!
Few month ago in CSGO I played a casual game for flying scout. Went in, and I got instantly kicked by the 5 players of the team. Turn out I felt into a farming bot lobby and all 10 players where farming bots
Yeah, that happens with certain groups of people. Definitely not a CS2 issue, best you can do is go and play a different map.
I didn't realize that they replaced cs:go with cs2 until I was home and noticed an update to install cs2.... if it was an independent launch, that would not happen.
The only CS game I've played somewhat recently is cs:go, so I put two and two together (ha, pun), and groaned.
I thought valve was better than this.
I had an amazing time playing CS2 Saturday night. The only performance issues I had was in the Ancient map, when I'm near the water my fps tanks to 50fps from like 90 fps on high.
its fine for me so far, but sometimes i get those moments where it lags for like 20 seconds straight and then it stops. i still dont know why its happening.
anybody that is in here complaining they can't play this game on Linux should seriously evaluate their life choices, instead of whining maybe you should just install Windows
I joined lemmy.one when people started moving from reddit to lemmy. In the early days there was not much choice, either this one or the woke beehaw and some other "just started" instances with one or two people. (and lemmingrad ofc) I have recently switched to another one.