Tbf new android phones are now getting ~8 year of software updates, plus you can install lineage to get more
Google and Samsung now provide updates for 7 years, and Fairphone provides updates for 8 years.
From what I can tell, Apple doesn't promise a set number of years for updates. The iPhone x got about 5 years of updates before support was dropped, but Apple will occasionally give security updates to older devices if they're severe enough.
With Fairphone 5, they guarantee at least 8 years of software updates but they will actually try 10 years! 1
And Apple was recently forced to disclose their software support commitment in the UK due to regulations. Apple guarantees at least 5 years of software updates, which is less than Google, Samsung, and Fairphone. Apple is no longer the leader in software support! 2
Footnotes
I went from an iPhone 7 to an iPhone 13 . I had replaced the battery on the iPhone 7 already, it still was getting updates but physically the charge port started wearing out and the NFC stopped working .
Was a good run, phone was super reliable needed no tweaking to work.
I have also been using iPhones since the iPhone 3G. Long before it existed on Android it was very easy to movie everything from your old phone to the new one, first via iTunes desktop then later via iCloud.
Family sharing for apps and family backups pooled in iCloud is also very convenient.
Good to hear, but I don't think I will have a phone for as long as six years, because for one thing the battery probably will have become unusable by then - they can only be charged so many times.
You know you can replace the battery, right? Like, 10 minutes with some basic repair knowledge and you can have it done. I usually do a battery replacement on my iPhone ever 2 years just because it will inevitably slow down and the battery life becomes unusable.
No way. You need more than 10 minutes and way more than "basic" repair knowledge.
Iphones are by design extremely hard to repair.
Proprietary screws, glued in components (which needs to be removed and reapplied) and battery management components which need to be resoldered to the new battery so that the phone accepts it.
Its been a while since i have repaired an iphone but i doubt its gotten better.
If you can do it in 10 minutes I will gove you 10 bucks though.
I’m a former sysadmin (10 years) with 1 year spent working as cellphone repair prior to that. I could bang out batteries all day long for replacing. It’s not rocket science.
Save your money. $10 doesn’t even cover my morning coffee.
You misrepresent the time, tools and knowledge needed to do those repairs.
"10 minutes and some basic repair knowledge" is still misleading even if you are a former sysadmin of 10 years.
Enjoy your overpriced coffee!
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iPhones are glued together, and the batteries are not meant to be replaced. It ruins the waterproofing. Fairphones are one of the only modern phones with replacable batteries.
Yeah, while you technically can replace the battery yourself on modern smartphones, it's really not as simple or accessible as people make it out to be. Gone are the days of quickly popping off a battery cover with zero tools and just dropping in a new battery. I'd wager most people today get their phone replaced when their battery has degraded to the point of unusability. Grandma used to be able to do this. Now, not so much. Often, tech focused, internet minded individuals don't realize how the general public views and interacts with their tech.
But updates for what? You gain very little from security because nobody is targeting you and no new major features, so what's it really worth? Maybe I'm wrong about my perception of those things though... I've used 2 androids for around 8 years each no problem.
You gain very little from security because nobody is targeting you...
It's not about being targeted, it's about being caught in the big fishing net that scammers are throwing. You don't have to be targeted to have security concerns.
If a phone isn't receiving regular security updates, I won't use it. My Pixel 5a just got replaced because it's coming up on end of support. My new Pixel has 7 years of support, so I feel a lot better about keeping it longer.
Updates to secure the operating systems are worth it. Apple has a fantastic track record of supporting the older phones. It shows they've really planned ahead and thought about the entire lifecycle of their device. They will also accept your old phone after its life is complete and responsibly recycle it.
Using Google services is not a strict requirement to run Android. There are whole online communities around unGoogled Android.
I’ve long considered making this switch from iPhone to an ungoogled Android device. What always bothered me is still basically having to install proprietary apps from a Play Store adjacent source. Like the Aurora store is basically just the Play Store logged under someone else’s account. I know you can side load but that’d be a pain to maintain updates. Wish there was like a Flathub-like store on Android I could use instead.
I'm not sure what's your pain point then? With Aurora you can install and automatically update proprietary apps. You can use anonymous accounts so you are not officially logged in (does this still work?). If you want FOSS, then fdroid. There's more updating tools such as unobtanium, but seems what you want is Aurora.
I’d just like to be completely free of Google’s app distribution infrastructure if possible. I’ll have to look into unobtanium. I haven’t heard of that one previously.
Google s is the largest, but not the only one. Amazon, Samsung and some OEMs have their own app stores too.
There are alson sites that archive and distribute apks, like Apkmirror.
I have a tablet logged to nothing (as in no account, not the OEM) and all my apps come from fdroid, obtanium or apkmirror.
It started as an experiment, and honestly it's (for me) not a big hurdle, but an app store would make things easier, that's for sure.
I am not sure why you think this is so bad. You have a way to upload the apps you can’t get on F-Droid (default or by adding repositories (I have microG, DivestOS, Molly, Cheogram repos)). Many apps work fine enough without Play services with microG—except the stupid banking ones that don’t want you to root, run custom OS, unGoogle, or literally do anything with the device you own.
Personally I hope this is all a stop-gap to Linux phones. I tried Ubuntu Phone last year & while parts of it looked great, the rough edges were apparent—especially the chroot environments for applications not in the Ubuntu store.
Same here, try to de-google my life while sitting comfortably in the Apple ecosystem as the happy hypocrite that I am. But the ecosystem is also the main reason to stay, not that it is hard to get out, but it is just a vastly superior experience if you don’t want to spend unlimited hours to customize every goddamn setting. Also, the ecosystem’s main feature ‘continuity’ is unmatched on other systems.
So first, I will say that the phrase "stopping me from switching" kind of implies that I'm looking to switch but can't.
I used to have android between the iPhone 4s and the iPhone X. Back then, there were significant features that I wanted that I couldn't get from iOS. Tho now there isn't much that android has that I don't feel I have access to that is significant .
As for what keeps me around and happy with iPhone is
- I'm in software engineering and I have always been mac person. I know windows has had the Linux subsystem for a long time now but it feels like a new feature and clunkier than max being freebsd based. My current job forces me to use windows, and I hate it but it's been 4 years, so I've adjusted. That said, the Mac/iPhone/iPad interoperability is great
- I love my Apple Watch. I'm sure Android wearable have gotten better but the integration feels complete and well supported. I don't have to worry about my phone getting updated and my watch stopping working
- The find my network is pretty great. I know there are other solutions but airtags are great. All of my devices also have seamless location tracking and sharing out of the box.
- I pay for the TB of iCloud storage (it's outrageously priced but I'm used to it now). It's great to have all my devices able to just all be using it. Latest addition to my icloud usage was using the Logitech Circleview doorbell and camera. It saves directly to icloud. I don't have to worry about storage and I also don't have to worry about the company sharing my footage with cops cause the data is stored in my icloud drive.
- it's not flawless nor perfect but knowing that there is app review before something gets published makes me feel better about the entire ecosystem. Kind of like how a bouncer at a bar let's ya know that when you go inside, the riffraff had to at least sneak in
- apple pay works great for me
- having all my devices made by the same company is a pro for me but I know others might see it as a con. But my Mac, iPad, iPhone, Apple Watch, Apple TV, HomePods, AirPods, etc all just being from apple means I have less to keep up with. I don't have to worry about a matrix of who makes what and when it's gonna get updated or dropped
- resell/trade in value is great cause old devices have such a long life due to software updates
- my shit just works and I'm happy
- I know it might be contraversal but I trust Apple. Be it them having a pretty good record on user privacy, or them not allowing bloatware cause of user experience, or them not cramming AI into shit the same way everyone else did (even with the upcoming IOS, their implementation seems well thought out and conservative
- backups and transferring to new devices has been completely painless (which I do suprisingly often)
Over the years, I've gone from being a major tech enthusiast to now not wanting to have to futz around when I'm not on the clock. I still like getting tech and adding it to my home, but I don't get in the weeds anymore. I just want my shit to work. I want my stuff to just work for my family.
I dunno, tweaking and futzing used to be important to me. But now confidence and simplicity matter more to me now
As someone who used to make apps, but run Android myself, here are the things I usually hear
- App quality tends to be worse on Android
- I have a MacBook, airpods, and Apple watch
- I don't know if a good Android phone that has the same camera quality and longevity as an iPhone
The subtle reason is also status. People feel rich/different with an iPhone
It's still there for some other Apple products, especially outside the US. I went to a generic electronics shop to buy some headphones and mentioned they're for my new MacBook, and the worker replied "Congratulations"
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I considered the jump to iPhone and did some testing on one of my kids iPhones. The common apps were essentially identical to my android, but the weird thing is free apps on iPhone all seem to just captive webpages or some other crap quality thing. You have to pay for good apps on iPhone. On android the free stuff is consistently better. Just my experience.
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This, this, 💯 this. When there's a sizable push into a Android future that isn't #GuidedByGoogle in the same way Chromium/Chrome is, I'll consider it. Until then its just open source paint on a proprietary cow.
After exclusively using android for 10 years I switched to an iPhone. Only regret is not doing it sooner.
Yeah, I got tired of being the product. It used to be Google phones were significantly cheaper, that's just not nearly as much a thing anymore.
Then you have to take the additional steps of finding privacy focused roms etc... It just wasn't worth the savings to me. There's things about Android I miss, but the fact that my phone is good for years and years is such a game changer.
I have been gradually transitioning over to proton for additional privacy and I've basically completely divorced myself from Google at this point.
Most people don’t need and thus don’t want to exit the box in their daily lives. They just want something that works and both iOS and Android provide that. It’s not shameful to stay in that box, if all you need or want is a functional box.
For those that can afford to enter the box and maintain all of its required ancillary pieces, you may very well be able to have that experience and save yourself "the burden" of thought or choice, yes.
Voting is hard too, having to research multiple candidate's histories against their stated intentions, marketing and funding sources can be downright exhausting at times, maybe you can let Apple do it for you?
Raising your kids includes so many difficult and impactful choices... Maybe we can send our kids to Apple, pay a subscription, and they can raise them as might best boost shareholder value?
It's not shameful.
That’s a bad analogy because A. iPhones work very well on their own, you don’t need to buy anything else, especially nothing expensive, and B. buying an iPhone is just as well a choice as buying any other phone. I‘m not letting Apple decide for me, I’m deciding to get an Apple device. If I‘d have preferred something else, I‘d have gotten that.
And for most people, it doesn’t matter. All they want is a device with a webbrowser and a chat app. Any phone can provide that. I know a lot of people with android phones. Used some myself over the years. And all but the most techy and tinkerhappy people will ever sideload an app, install a third party launcher, root their device or do anything but stay inside the same box iPhones are. And sure, you can’t exit the box while using an iPhone and you could on the android device but why would you, when you just need your phone to work so you can concentrate on things that actually matter, like preparing for the next election or raising children.
See, just stumbled across this on another thread, you box folk are just the open butt of the joke everywhere...
Sure. I wouldn’t buy shoes that need an app in the first place though. I think that’s more of a joke.
Again, when there comes a point where I need to exit the box, I will. I just don’t have to because I’m not buying shoes that require an app to function.
App controlled shoes aren't the outlier though by any means? Just about everything has a companion app these days and through enshitification they eventually lock away features and charge subscription (if they didn't from start) until they inevitably shut down servers and brick devices or at lady severely restrict usability.
The android community often revives these products, giving them a second life and retaining their core functionality at least - because the platform allows for it in its design.
This same thing doesn't happen in the box, because the box doesn't want its friends ability to pull the plug denied them. Again this is objective fact at this point and ubiquitous to the point that you routinely see casual reference to this style of joke.
And to "most people will never use X functionality" that's a self fulfilling prophecy because most people in the box have never known those features as any kind of possibility. "Most people held hostage in a basement from birth, fed only saltines, won't want Oreo cookies" is the same idea.
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I’m a different poster, but I could also just… not hahaha. I went through unlocking bootloaders and rooting Android phones before but my six year old iPhone works amazingly and I don’t need to deal with any of that to not use any Google products or services.
- Cross-device integration/the Apple ecosystem. I use a Mac for my userland computing, and the ease with which it works together with my phone is a killer feature. Also in this category is integration with my family's Apple devices.
- The software ecosystem. Apple's first party apps and services are really nice across the board, and once again the ecosystem integration is the single biggest reason I use an iPhone. (the user facing apps, at least--Xcode and everything related to it are hot trash).
- Purely subjective, but Android is ugly to me. The hardware, the OS(es), and the apps just look bad to my eye. The iPhone looks and feels nice in a way that I haven't experienced in an Android product.
- I don't trust Google and I can't be bothered to spend any time configuring my phone. I spend too much of my life installing shit and tinkering with config already; I want a phone that just works out of the box.
Pretty much the same for me. I try to do zero business with Google. I tried android several times and it just felt like a rough draft of a real product.
But no matter how you change it, the overall experience in Android is inconsistent and sub par. Little things like flickering between switching apps or janky animation when the keyboard shows up is what causes poor Android experience.
Customisability is the bane of clean and consistent UI.
- There is no reasonably sized android phone. They’re either huge (>6“) or tiny (<4“) and the smaller variant usually has ancient and slow specs.
- I passionately dislike google. Big parts of that is privacy, which Apple might not care about as much as they should but Google isn’t caring about at all. And yes, it’s possible to use Android without Google but it’s quite a hassle.
- I prefer the UI of most apps on iOS to the equivalent on Android. It’s fairly consistent, usually following certain standards (like the menu bar on the bottom).
- Most android phones I’ve used over the years have an ungodly amount of bloat. Why would anyone want to use a second, worse app store? Why are facebook and tiktok preinstalled and can’t be uninstalled?
- I also have a Mac and an AppleTV. The iPhone fits right in.
- I’m used to it. It works. As long as Apple doesn’t do a major privacy oopsie or someone releases a small android flagship phone again, I have no reason to leave because android offers nothing I desire beyond what I already have.
Edit: structure
Same, no reason to switch. The iPhone just works and it actually never slow down while I had this problem with my parents android phones and my old android
Keywords there are 'old Android'. I haven't had a phone do that classic android slowdown in years.
They made a huge oopsie with Siri once, when it was revealed that audio was reviewed by real people without my consent. It made me question everything for a bit. But is it better at Google? I don't think so. And Apple fixed the issue.
#1 is the most legit reason itt. I had an iPhone for work. Perfect size even with a rubber case. Despise almost every other feature... Size was perfect. Now I'm stuck with 6" after 6" (gigiddy)... At least they're cheap and fit in my pockets.
4 might be where people are getting their phone. Haven't had this on the last 2 phones at least (unlocked, not bought from carrier)
Carrier phones aren’t really a thing here in Germany. You usually just get the exact same as retail. I believe the problem is just with some brands more than others and probably also price point.
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If u really care about privacy that much then why are u using the closed source system of apple. Also the bloat apps of android are removable,u dont even need to root, just use https://github.com/0x192/universal-android-debloater
Because it’s more convenient. I trust Google less than Apple and degoogling android is a hassle. Or rather getting all the apps you need with a degoogled android. I do want privacy but I also don’t want to give up useability.
Also, the point is less, that you can’t remove or deactivate bloat apps but that they’re there in the first place. I‘ve got a similar issue with Windows.
And the other factors still play a large roll. If I could have a reasonably sized, speced and priced android phone, I might consider it and maybe will in the future when my iPhone 13 mini gives up the ghost.
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Fair enough,I misjudged ur threat model. But is there any reason as to why u trust apple more than companies like google even tho both are closed source and non auditable by the general public. Is it cuz of the privacy font that apple tries to show?
To some degree, as apple tries to appear privacy conscious, at least, while Google is very open, that all they want is your data. But that gets enforced by their business models. Google is first and foremost an advertising company. That’s how they make money. Less so with hard and software. Apple is first and foremost a hardware company. They do sell some software and services but it’s not their main business. Advertising even less.
First thing: Privacy. I am aware that iOS is not entirely private too, but I trust Apple Photos much more than Google Photos. You can even enable end-to-end encryption iirc.
Second point is control over my data. I can easily export my photos from Apple Photos as files, whereas Google maliciously separates Photos and Metadata upon export. In my experience this is the same for a lot of other services as well. Being able to easily export my data enables me to escape the walled garden more easily should I get fed up with one system. I also try to use as many open source services as possible for this as well as other reasons.
Apple has a lot of malicious practices too, especially when it comes to EU citizens and third-party app stores, etc. - but in my experience Google is no better.
Lastly, I considered switching to an Android with Graphene OS (privacy focused Android derivate) a couple of times, but the added control over your data comes with a lot of other inconveniences. So for now, I’m just sticking to iOS.
Not entirely disagreeing with you but, what exactly is "malicious" about separating photo and metadata? It could be just how their servers process and stores those photos, with the added benefit of geotagging videos.
I use Google Photos and upload in original quality. When I download from takeout, the metadata is still in the original files. Iirc, only if you select upload in "high quality" where they compress it again, do you lose the metadata in the file stored in the cloud.
When you re-import the images into another program/library, they will not be displayed in the correct order and all other information will be lost as well.
Metadata in general is very useful and contains a lot of valuable information like location data, lens, focal length and device information which you have to manually re-integrate into each and every photo.
I mean yes, I could write a quick and dirty Python script for this, but why should I have to do this in the first place?
In my subjective opinion this is malicious as in it only being this way to make it as hard as possible to migrate away. I highly doubt this is the way their servers store the images as it is very inefficient and the images are likely stored in a database instead. This means in order to retrieve a file they have to process each image anyway, so why not follow the universally accepted and well defined standard and include the metadata in each file?
Fair. I guess I never really needed to deal with that since I upload in original. That and Google Photos Takeout Helper made migrating easy for me.
Apple Photos is more private than Google Photos
Sure, but if you care about privacy at all, then surely you wouldn't use either of them anyway? You'd use Ente Photos (available for both OS), or Immich (available for both OS), or any other private solution? So this shouldn't really be a factor in choosing between Android and iOS. Same with the export point. Both have good options for photo backup, and neither Apple Photos nor Google Photos are one of them.
I dislike this logic. It's really a black and white / all or nothing approach. Also, I think the photos app is just a microcosm of a bigger consideration. That being which OS do I trust more overall if I trust some of the built I apps more?
Agree, you should look at the overall picture, not make a decision based on an individual app (which, in case of Google Photos, isn't even built in unless you buy a Pixel or something, it's just some app that happens to be available, for both iOS and Android).
Pretty sure on iOS any other gallery app is just a frontend to the photo stock app. Beside, you can encrypt the whole thing on iCloud so it’s safe (which is what I do)
Yeah, all gallery apps show the same on-device photos, the difference is where they backup/upload them, which is the part important to privacy.
Apple iCloud having the E2E encryption feature is definitely an advantage over Google Photos. All I'm saying is that neither really have much to do with the OS. Google Photos isn't even a preinstalled app on most Android phones, just one of many options you could install, same as on iOS.
Except google photos will nag you every few days to enable cloud sync if it's disabled when you open the app and uses dark patterns to nudge towards accepting. I doubt iOS does that.
So don't install it, use a better app. It's just some app, not part of the system like iCloud on iOS.
Apple has actually built a nice ecosystem. Apple Pay, Apple CarPlay, etc. are just more widespread and consistent than their Google alternatives. For example, my current car and every car I’ve rented in the past 5 years have Apple CarPlay, but only one rental actually had Android Auto (my current car does not.)
Plus I don’t really feel like reinstalling all new apps, getting new games, etc. And while I like software freedom on my PC, I don’t mind a walled garden on my phone.
I just switched back to iPhone a couple of months ago, after 10 years on Android.
In short, I trust Apple more than Google. That’s not to say Apple is 100% trustworthy, but I definitely trust them more than Google.
I’ve used both for years. iPhone is simply the better device compared to any Android phone I’ve tried, including Pixel and other high end phones.
iOS is a better OS for me. I’m a software eng, and so I’m able to do all sorts of things to androids, and some things to iOS, but at the end of the day I want my phone to work and that’s it. I don’t tinker in my free time because I tinker all day at work.
As others have mentioned, the Apple ecosystem is pretty fantastic.
Finally, I’d rather buy hardware/software from a hardware/software company than an advertising company.
I came to the same conclusion. Also, the year I was going to try a top of the line android device was when they started bursting into flames in people's pockets.
I technically have both since I’m a developer but my daily driver is my iPhone because when I have an android phone, I constantly want to put different roms on it so it ends up unstable. So, Apple’s walled garden saves me from myself making my phone unstable when I need a phone for calls/messages and not tinkering.
I don’t notice much of a difference these days, though. Sometimes, I charge my iPhone and grab my Pixel and I don’t even notice. Back in the day, iOS was generally more polished and Android was either slightly behind or ahead on specific features but I find that both are pretty much mature at this point. Flagship cameras are both excellent. Accessory ecosystems exist. There’s really not an overwhelming reason to switch, (especially if the Android phone is also a walled garden, which seems more common now).
Android phones are not walled gardens though. They still allow third party app stores and "sideloading".
I just meant unlocking the boot loader and installing custom ROMs or whatever on it. It used to be practically encouraged.
You can still do that. Google isn't really stopping you. They do however have to provide mechanisms for things like banks to detect it if they choose to.
Kinda random question: are you a FE developer? If so, is there a reason you would want to have an android phone instead of using a desktop emulator?
I guess these days, I’m primarily a manager and full stack web developer (which often means writing APIs and doing DevOps). But I’ve built several apps over the years. Nothing really consumer-facing. Mostly one-off things like apps for a conference or festival.
But to answer your main question, I use the emulator most of the time but I think it’s important (at least for me) to use a real phone sometimes. Like, “Does this design choice feel right in this OS’s ecosystem?” That can’t always be answered well via emulator. It matters less nowadays but back in the day, Android and iOS hadn’t copied each other yet and there were some big differences.
Beyond work stuff, though, having a spare phone that isn’t your daily driver is nice. Android devices are usually pretty cheap if you don’t need a new, current-gen flagship. I’ve used my spare while traveling abroad with a cheap SIM card. Friends have borrowed it after breaking their phone while waiting on a replacement to be delivered. I have a little camera drone that uses a phone as the controller screen. And I can fuck around with it and install custom ROMs or experimental stuff.
And I can sing “2 Phones” by Kevin Gates and pretend to be cool.
As an Android user, I'm considering switching to iPhone due to how much worse the Android experience is becoming without Google Play Services. I'm using a custom ROM with microG, which potentially means no RCS since it is only available through Google Messages which doesn't work with microG.
As much as it would suck jumping ship, at the very least, Apple is still a consumer hardware company first & foremost while Google will always be an ads company. Android exists to that end & that end alone.
I'm using a custom ROM with microG, which potentially means no RCS since it is only available through Google Messages which doesn't work with microG.
This is a common misconception. Android just doesn’t let you access the necessary low level stuff to talk to carrier RCS services. If you’re already using a custom ROM that may not be a problem. Here’s a third party RCS demo app: https://github.com/Hirohumi/RustyRcs
I don’t know how actually usable this is though, or if there’s anything else that’s usable that’s not Google Messages.
iMessage is not as good as Google Messages, tbh. It's the one thing I miss after switching from Android. I miss having access to my messages in a browser and any device.
The only people that Google Messages isn't better for is iMessage users, and that's because iMessage cripples it on purpose. It's shitty.
I hated this too and used jailbreak tweaks to give me the ability for awhile, but now I have an m series MacBook so it doesn’t even matter anymore.
- Live Photos. I love having a little video attached to every photo. I wish high end mirrorless cameras would do this.
- I can use my phone without and Google products. Apple Maps is especially useful. YouTube and Google Voice are my last two I haven’t ditched. yt-dlp and PeerTube with help, and I’m looking into VOIP providers.
- Android has motion photos, which i think is on by default and is more or less the same as live photos.
- This is just a coincidence, I know Apple maps is good these days, but just the other day my friend was using Apple maps to guide us and it hallucinated a restaurant wholesale. Like, this location for this restaurant has never existed as far as we can tell.
Apple Maps and Google maps seem about the same to me. But I can use Apple Maps without Google. I installed but haven’t given Organic Maps a fair shot yet.
I did recently discover you can turn off "Web and App Activity" for your Google account, which seems to disable Google saving most of your data (searches, viewed places, etc), for what that's worth. It definitely cripples Google maps even more than I think it should, since now I can't even search for labels I've added to Google maps myself.
I've been meaning to try Organic Maps as well, but haven't even gotten around to installing it yet.