All other countries without sideloading mandates
We're as shitty as we're legally allowed to be
- Apple
Technology isn't to enable users to do what they want, but to let corporations do what they can get away with.
I finally made the plunge to Linux desktop for all work in 2016 and have not looked back (and occasional windows VM, extremely rare now.) Even Arch is now perfectly fine as a workstation which surprised me. Recommend EndeavourOS to streamline the install process but it's Arch underneath.
Welcome to the good side. ;)
I've been running Linux since I could afford a 386 in '94. (and learned years later a 386SX would have run it as well) Every time I need to work on Windows for an employer the 1st thing I do is find who can help mne fix windows when I break it. (I seem to be pretty good at that, although it doesn't seem to be a huge skill)
I'm a Linux user since '94, the 1st Android phone I got (company phone) was rooted, the 1st one I bough ran Cyanogenmod and I even developed Cyanogenmod for my 2nd tablet. (1st was crap) yep, free software user. (and kind of developer)
To be fair that's not limited to Apple. Any company will follow the law to the letter, and lobby to change the law in their favour.
To be even fairer, corporations have no inherent "right" to exist, and in fact should not be allowed to exist unless they're acting ethically and serving society.
Android is not a company though, it's FOSS. Google could ban it on their branch I suppose.
True. I have a Samsung, which does do some shitty ass things like remove the option to turn off data access to apps, but even they allow "sideloading" (I don't even like that term -- it's just installing software in the normal way to me)
Most Android components can technically be FOSS, but the it's monolythic nature makes it very hard to get from those FOSS benefits. Best example is TV using Android, phone using Android, but cannot change the interface without hacking half-baked thing like custom ROM.
Google does indeed use Google Play Services to gate-keep the Ecosystem while keeping Android technically FOSS. Still better than Apple in this case, but hey... would you rather be hanged or beheaded?
No but many of them. Play Services gets more and more functions that used to be part of the Android operating system. Some very basic functionalities are assisted GPS or Push notifications.
So? Companies can and have removed features like that at the behest of some dickwad in power. Don't take anything for granted. We need to heavily regulate them. Or hell take games. Capcom is currently adding DRM to 12+year old games. Garbage like that should be forbidden by law instead of relying on shitstorms to get companies to comply.
Despite not being forced by governments, no android phone uses a shitty proprietary charger port, nor have they ever. And last night I discovered side loading is possible on my fucking google TV device. Again, no laws require this, it's just called not being a fucking prick.
Not always. Consumers given choice they should go for the product that is best. That way companies have to make the best product. That's competition working.
Like when ps3 offered free online but xbox didn't. That killed the xbox market as everyone could choose a similar product that was cheaper.
Or when apple forced everyone to use their products people went to the Samsung because you could do what you want. That killed apple.
Or when some companies offered subscription model like Microsoft Office, everyone went to alternatives and that killed Microsoft Office.
Honestly I blame people. We had all the information and just laughed in the face of reason. We are choosing to spend more for a shittier product.
I honestly don't get why people use apple. People have explained it to me and I think I just don't get the reasoning.
People would tell me on the age of illegally downloaded or someone legally bought mp3s apple was better because you can't play your mp3s you have to buy them again off apple. Or that apple is better because you can't use something and instead have to use apples device which isn't as good and more expensive but it's white! Like I can't get a fucking white one.
The walled garden is shit. Apple makes me angry.
i have used an iphone once in my life when i was a kid, and my only memory of it is thinking something was broken because i couldn't open the filesystem on my PC
People would tell me on the age of illegally downloaded or someone legally bought mp3s apple was better because you can't play your mp3s you have to buy them again off apple
Idk why people told you that but it's never been true. iPods didn't give a shit where the mp3 came from, only that it was loaded via iTunes.
I dunno maybe my friends were too stupid to manage it.
But I got told you couldn't get it on there and you couldn't get it off their.
I didn't see the point. Didn't seem like owning it, seemed like apple owned it.
From Apple’s perspective it’s not shitty, it’s part of their brand. Apple products are all about stupid proofing. Its hard to fuck it up, its hard to download a malicious app or virus. Preventing side loading protects people who don’t know what side loading is. Believe it or not that’s the majority of users. Side loading wont effect profits but thats because the large majority of their customer base will never use it. Those of us who want it are a vocal minority trying to screw up their entire business strategy, so of course they won’t give it to us unless they are forced to do so.
From Apple’s perspective it’s not shitty
No shit.
From Hitler's perspective, he was saving Germany too. Why would I give a shit about that perspective?
Maybe it will help you be less pissy about something you cant change. Accept the fact that Apple will never change due to this fundamental business strategy and move on to a company that doesnt rely on babying their mindless customers. Or I dunno, fuck it, keep pissing in the wind and crying about smelling bad.
No. Still punching Nazis and Apple fan bois in the face for supporting fascistic backwards authoritarians.
I won't give apple another dime. I made the decision like 10 years ago and stuck with it.
The only reason I have to care is that you can't avoid hearing about apple and their shitty business practices on a near daily basis.
Complaining about a company being shitty is reasonable. Deal with it and just simp harder.
We're never going to shut up about Apple. Ever. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to not read it!
Yo you and everyone else replying to me need to slow down and read carefully. I’m telling you you cant change it SO GO BUY SOMETHING ELSE. Holy fuck, the shit I said above is not a compliment to apple. If you don’t get that then you are Apple’s target audience cause goddamn ya fuckin need stupid proofing.
Apple products are all about stupid proofing.
Where do we draw the line between a functioning computer and chromebook? an IoT device? Stupid-proofing should not come at the cost of basic functionality.
Preventing side loading protects people who don’t know what side loading is.
No, it does not. Users attempting to sideload an app would obviously be warned, not to mention various other methods of malware scanning / sandboxing which can alleviate that non-existant issue.
Those of us who want it are a vocal minority trying to screw up their entire business strategy.
Creating Fisher Price computers is not a valid business strategy, and serves as a detriment for all users regardless of proficency. User freedom is beneficial for absolutely everyone.
It absolutely is a valid business strategy, Apple has been winning with this strategy for like 15-20 years now. Their shit IS Fisher Price computers and Fisher Price phones and ALWAYS HAS BEEN. Most people are fucking dumb and it is designed specifically for them. So for the love of god go buy something else. Please. I’m begging you and everyone else who thinks they are smart - STOP BUYING APPLE STUFF! Like holy shit do something inconvenient for once
True but don't try Tinder dating with an Android phone, lol. Apple products get you dates!
https://www.garnerstyle.com/2023/07/tech-wars-why-some-women-think-android.html
Any women who (who we're already assuning I'm interested in enough to take on a date) won't go on a date with me because of my phone's OS are dodged bullets imo.
My 12 year old son has a Samsung Galaxy S23 and is a total Samsung loyalist. I hope he doesn't have to dodge a ton of bullets.
Users attempting to sideload an app would obviously be warned, not to mention various other methods of malware scanning / sandboxing which can alleviate that non-existant issue.
Hope the sandboxing is really strong.
Vulnerable people can be walked through malware installations over the phone, or via guided workflow.
Also, naughty nations/employers can pre-load spyware onto devices they require people to use.
Definitely excited to see what the best use cases are but will await headlines this year about misuse.
" from my point of view, the Jedi are evil"
Anakin sounded like a total ass too when he said it
One thing I've learned living in a conservative state in the US is that everything is my fault by proxy
I should just be rich enough to move, how hard can it be
"We should just build a wall around your state and force it to secede. All the LGBT+ and POC should relocate immediately because it's not safe to live there."
"What about all the people who can't afford to move? What about all the people living on tribal land?"
"Oh, them? Hmmm. They should move, too. Again."
The fact is, right-wing extremism shouldn't be tolerated anywhere. Putting all the fascists "on an island" doesn't fix anything because there will always be children and other people who never asked to be there, yet have to suffer.
Diffuse sanctions, with exile being used in extreme cases
But remember that hierarchical systems and states will always devolve into fascism given time, and the number of people calling for fascism would greatly decrease, given a different system
Yes but look at the alternative: a country united under far right rule. We suffered for 4 years of that and are looking at another 4 years of it if the dumbass anti-Biden memes are taken seriously by enough sheeple.
Stop being poor, dang it!
20 minutes into the future: "Poverty comes from poor character".
Also look up "prosperity gospel". Clive Barker has nothing on that.
How do all those immigrants move, though? Are they all secretly rich? Or are you, in fact, just comfortable enough not to want to move?
Are you comparing fleeing from war and poverty to moving to some other state because you care about abortions being available?
He's not talking in good faith. I'm married to a first-gen immigrant from Mexico. I can tell you how "they" move. Unless they're rich out the gate, in which case there's a completely different process, they save up money for years, ask for money from relatives, live in extreme discomfort, and then eventually are able to move.
Once established, it's not like "they" can pick up at any time and relocate. Now they're trapped in three or four jobs working the entire day, with still barely enough money for rent and food.
Eventually, some of "them" might be fortunate enough to be able to afford the massive investment of time and money for residency and maybe even citizenship.
Maybe even some of "them" will fall in love and get married and start a beautiful life together.
But maybe "they" and even their spouse have misfortune. Healthcare can totally collapse you. Maybe "they" and their spouse save up money for years, but it's never enough. "They" have got PTSD from their prior life experiences, and their spouse develops health problems. Neither of them want these things to happen, but one ends up in and out of psych wards and psychiatrists' offices, and the other ends up shitting himself for more than five years, finally after thousands and thousands of dollars discovers he has celiac, but has also fucked other things up in the meantime by developing addiction to alcohol and opiods, which are so easy to become addicted to in this society. So their big plans to move to the big city keep falling through. "They" might lie awake at night feeling tremendous guilt about this, on top of everything else, even though it's not "their" fault.
That's how "they" move, and that's how many of "them" might not be able to just fucking relocate like some privileged neckbeard from lemmy.world suggests.
I know many other immigrants and refugees. I know many similar cases.
TL;DR "They" are the same as "us"
What did I say for you to badmouth me here, exactly? And why do you keep putting "they" in quotes? I can tell you're waiting for some big gotcha moment. What is it?
They don't move, either. I'm married to a first-gen immigrant. Getting here is a massive undertaking, but then?
And what do you mean, all "those" immigrants?
They move at least once in order to be immigrants, from their home country to the foreign country they now live in.
I mean literally every single immigrant because that's the definition of an immigrant.
rich enough to move
Just so we're clear, you're simultaneously too rich to move (like a Guatemalan farmer) and too poor to move (like a IT graduate)?
Is it possible for you to rephrase that comment? Don't quite understand what you are getting at.
To make it abundantly clear, for most people on earth, and for most of human history, being poor was and is not a blocker to moving. In fact it's a great enabler. Comfortable middle income people don't move.
Time to start the rejoin in only another 10 years or so I think. We'll be voting on single market membership again before the decade is out I think.
It's incredible how that decision fucked the country for decades. One of the best examples why "direct democracy" does not guarantee good decisions just because it was the people's choice.
It wasn't direct democracy though.
No member of the public ever voted on the legislation.
If the legislation has been put to the public and the referendum bound it to law I think it would have gone differently.
The vote relied people voting for their own version of Brexit vs. the status quo.
I'm not a fan of direct democracy by any means but Brexit isn't an example of it.
Ah, okay, so the referendum was just more like a consultation whether brexit should happen, but the badly done legislation came afterwards (which people probably wouldn't have voted for)?
Exactly.
People were simultaneously told different things by different people on what would happen of the country voted leave. A lot of it obviously false even at the time.
People might have known what they were voting for. But what they were voting for had no basis on what the government would actually do.
Then we had the prime minister who held the referendum resign.
A new prime minister is chosen in a private election amongst members of the conservative party (about 100,000 votes will do it normally but no one actually runs against them). This becomes a theme.
There is legislation passed which essentially puts a clock on the process. If nothing passes we'd just revoke laws and break treaties.
This was meant to scare the EU into giving us what we wanted. The EU was not overly concerned.
The government put some very shoddy legislation together. We got a pretty poor deal from the EU, well we were pretty desperate.
The government couldn't pass that legislation
We had an election for a new government
The government lost seats and lost their majority
The government then joined with a religious extremist party in Northern Ireland to give them a majority.
The shoddy legislation becomes not only shoddy but also more extreme, It still can't pass.
The prime minister is ousted by their own party.
We get a new prime minister.
They still haven't decided on the legislation but they tell everyone what they want to hear.
We have an election
The government gets a big working majority
The shoddy extreme legislation, which we now know from first hand accounts the prime minister didn't understand, still can't pass.
The government literally breaks the law and closes parliament illegally to try and run the clock closer to the point where we take a bonfire to massive ammous of legislation.
The government are then forced back into the house by the courts
Eventually at the last moment a deal is passed. It's really bad for the UK economy, and the UK in general.
The UK leaves the EU. Northern Ireland doesn't. Well it sort of does.
COVID and Another 2 prime ministers later and Brexit deals are still being negotiated.
Essentially he EU has everything it needs. It's protected the interests of bordering nations like the Republic of Ireland and France. The UK has increased friction on trade, labour issues.
The current big issue is that France no longer helps us stop people crossing the channel. That was an EU agreement. So our government, now spends it's time and energy trying to deport people to Rwanda, breaking the entirely separate European Convention on Human Rights Churchill's government basically wrote and passed after the second world war.
It's worth noting that this government has had a vote share of 36.1% pre referendum in 2015 36.9% post referendum in 2017 42.4% post deadlock in 2019 (with the opposition getting 40%)
The conservative party got that lock in 2019 on 55% of the seats with 42.4% of the vote
Since then they've rotated people in and out of government to essentially do the bidding of the one who pays the most into their individual campaign funds against each other.
The government refuse to allow an election even while they're essentially changing constantly.
We haven't really got democracy in this country. We disenfranchise a lot of people through our electoral system by design. We concentrate power to a minority.
It's a mess.
Okay, but it was only finalized in 2020. That's probably why it feels like it hasn't been that long.
"You haven't had a date since Brexit" was a funny burn I ehard once I remembered how long ago that was.
Just shows that an eight year old iPhone is still reliable today, receives updates and the approved apps work perfectly fine on it!
Naw. The oldest supported model by IOS 17 is the XS/XR line from 2018 September. So only about 5.5 years.
However an X/XR/XS should still work very well today, maybe after a battery swap about three years in to keep a 80%+ capacity.
I meant this comment more in regards to your lovely voting peers in the country you have to reside in.
Wish you best of luck rejoining the EU!
the people who voted brexit werent concerned about a lot considering the post vote google searches for "what is brexit"
Following the last few years the list of topics they were concerned with is growing very slim.
Well they were basically only ever really concerned about two things (immigration and muh sovereignty), they didn't give a shit about anything else, they'd even say it would be worth the UK going backwards for decades to get out of the EU.
52nd*
Canada and UK act all haughty about being superior to the US but we have MAGA here and the UK has similar, and there is a reason they are called TERF island.
the UK has similar
Our idiots are idiots - they aren't insane idiots. MAGAts can only happen in a country without universal mental health care.
Have you tried accessing mental health care here recently? We have practice nurses prescribing SSRIs, not mental health care.
I read that linguistically, Australian English is closer to American than British versions. Having never yet been there but occasionally having a Violet Crumble when available, I can believe it.
It's a mix of both. For basic things like elevator vs lift, Aussies will generally understand both words and use them interchangeably.
Historically there was a lot of British influence, but these days I feel like it's definitely getting closer to US English. A lot of media (movies, TV shows, YouTube creators, etc) in Australia is American, and a lot of American slang enters the vernacular that way.
Imagine devices you can actually repair yourself. I looked into switching the battery on my phone the other day and in the process it seems I could very easily break my display if I am not SUPER careful. It's literally easier to swap the display than the battery.
“Minimizes diminished App Store revenue”
I am an Apple user and in the end I’m more comfortable with them having access to my data than google.. but man, they don’t even bother to pretend it’s a pro-consumer issue thing anymore.
Been noticing that a lot lately, corporate weasel language is dying as these companies grow more and more emboldened.
It's pretty funny considering their main arguments have never mentioned the financial impact and always leaned on SeCuRitY, or some dumb shit the fanboys will regurgitate.
Like, Apple you lying little slut — we know you cuck for coins in everything you do.
It is about security for them. One of the big problems of sideloading are the idiot users. Apple has a good name for iOS security because it is a walled garden. Everyone expects shit on android but never does on iOS, which is due to good marketing on apples side and the walled garden. Now your idiot user installs an app from weoffervirusesandcryptominers.com and like always it will be apples fault that something went wrong. Customers are idiots and for a company that sellers perceived security and lifestyle products free reign for idiots is a serious business risk.
I'm getting real tired of corpo doublespeak. It's everywhere right now and I feel like people are finally getting wise to it. I don't want to hear whatever made up by committee garbage you came up with. Give us an answer.
It's a matter of time. Other countries just need a copy paste law. Apple knows this. But right now it's worth it to keep 2 systems around.
Anything Google is optional on Android, especially since the EU's DMA which now mandates the service accounts to be decoupled (or to make coupling optional, to be more precise).
Both Google and Apple sell your data to the same companies. It's kinda the point of them having 'an ecosystem' (monopolized ofc).
All "privacy" efforts they made with their OSs were exclusively so third party apps can collect less data from you and have to buy data from Google/Apple.
I am gonna guess they have their own ad setup. So they collect the data, setup profiles and whatnot. Then an advertiser can come and pay to use their system for targeted ads. Now does that count as "selling your data"? Not technically I guess. Google does exactly the same thing tho, right? I fail to see how they differ in any way. I suppose you can HOPE that apple cares about its reputation enough to handle your data carefully, but that is about it. Hopes and prayers.
The op I replied to? Apples quarterly revenue statements? Their terms you agree to? Explicit 'Apple privacy policy' on the subject?
Both Apple and Google restrict third party app privacy not for your protection/increased privacy but to monopolize data collection. Eg Facebook vs Meta was a few years ago a fairly public fight.
But on both OSs you don't really have the option to restrict data collection from their services (on some Androids you can't even disable Google services, much less uninstall them). And Google also pays several billions per quarter to Apple to be the default search data collection engine.
It is true tho that companies differ a lot so the data collection is different too (the biggest difference is that Apple doesn't have that much need for user data since it isn't really in personalized ad business).
You are delusional. It’s wild that you’re using sources like Apple’s privacy policy as a source when it directly contradicts what you’re claiming.
The authoritative sources that you listed explicitly state:
Apple only delivers ads in 3 places (App Store, Apple News, Stocks). Contrast this with Google, which delivers ads on virtually every app on every screen you interact with if you’ve got an Android phone.
Apple doesn’t share any personal data with third parties for advertising. They also don’t “sell” your data at all. They also don’t buy (or receive) any personal data from third parties to use for marketing. Again, contrast that with Google, whose entire business model is doing each of those things as invasively as possible.
I’m not claiming that Apple is “moral” or “ethical” or anything like that. But Apple’s profits are driven by them selling hardware, which means that if I’m someone who wants to buy hardware, their interests are at least somewhat aligned with mine. On the other hand, Google’s profits are driven by selling ads that are based on the most emotionally charged personal information they can gather. Any service they provide you is just bait for you to chew on so they can build the inventory they sell to advertisers.
Sorry, but you really need to lay of the crack my friend.
You should never sideload. Cranes are not designed to be loaded that way and the crane or the load could move unexpectedly.
Always lift vertically.
Another Brexit Benefit
Fuck Nigel Frog face Farrage, The Haunted Victorian Pencil Jacob Rees-Mogg, Lord David Pig Fucker Cameron, Maybot, Boris I don't care where I stick my Johnson, and all the rest of the Tories who either actively supported this or were to self interested to not rebel as their leaders doubled down on their Brexit folly again and again.
As a mainland European I find Brexit absolutely hilarious. Even Labour is now like: "we didn't get the bad press, so we're fine with Brexit now".
Yeah, no kidding. You don’t get to act like a red hatter, acting like your decisions about what constitutes “freedom” disqualifies all others, without being called out for it.
I’m getting so sick of Lemmy… It’s just like the worst parts of Reddit now. No opinion, other than the hive mind. No discussion, besides name-calling and finger pointing, and yeah, they did it first. This place is for children.
Well, it's just capitalism, ain't it. The goal of the company is to generate as much revenue as possible. That is why we need to regulate the market and everyone who says else is probably a rich asshole who does not care about others.
No, they protect free market from communism. Free as in free to screw you over and communism as in any democracy.
Apple haters have ALWAYS found something to wrap their hate around and then march on parade; this is just the latest. Just join the line at the back…
Or buy something else.
Just as long as you get one of the few models that are unlocked or offer a long lifetime of updates.
I ended up installing LineageOS and have been getting updates almost weekly ever since.
getting updates almost weekly
Quantitiy ≠ Quality.
I'd use it more as a gauge on how active this device is developed for.
True, but still beats the maybe 1 or 2 updates I got over the lifetime of my other phones.
That's the thing though, you can get devices from other manufacturers and you can get unlocked devices with Android. Those things aren't even options with Apple.
or offer a long lifetime of updates
In Samsung unpacked event Samsung announced that it will extend Android And Security updates to 7 years
I think OP meant phones which are popularly supported by custom roms-The only way we can get a lifetime of updates
Samsung still doesn't allow for unlocking the bootloader in the US, so after 7 years, the phone basically becomes ewaste due to lack of security updates. Repairability, I can't speak on, but they probably still glue their screen.
That's not even counting the fact that SoC vendors put these unmaintainable amount of patches on top of the Linux kernel instead of contributing to upstream Linux, so that their device can use a generic kernel. This leads to the use of ancient Linux versions on embedded devices with no room for upgrade without a third party porting mainline Linux.
"Smart" TVs/IoT devices have the same issue, but often times worse. You'd be lucky to get a new Android version on an Android TV, let alone a new kernel version, or the ability to run a custom OS, with documentation on how provided by the manufacturer, along with stock firmware.
There's also the problem of companies (mainly ones based in China) not releasing source code for the GPL-licensed software they use, such as the Linux kernel. Very common issue, especially with Mediatek products.
Apple is so locked down I fail to see what the appeal could be in the first place, there's very little customization, only one hardware manufacturer, and they're more guilty of anyone else in the market of planned obsolescence.
You mean except for when they got caught slowing down old models, or how their support will tell you to go to a store and the store will tell you to call support and nothing gets fixed. Or how they break Australian Consumer Law by saying that any ex-displays don't have any warranty despite that legally your warranty starts when you buy the phone. Can't fix anything just spend more money for latest version
The ecosystem is the thing holding me here. Everything works so seamlessly and the products are very good (imo). I don’t have to worry that my watch and headphones might not work with another company’s phone, or at least not as good. If there are headphones and watches that would work as well, seamless and long as Apple’s, I’m open to suggestions. Apple might be behind with innovations, but when they implement something, it’s done right (usually)
Havent had any issues with my headphones conncectivity wise.
I turn them on, they boot and play music.
No connection drops or anything else.
Only pairing wasnt fully automagically.
I suppose if you'd buy 1st party brands, you'd get even that but that's only a one time thing anyway so whatever.
Tested with a Pixel 7 Pro and Jabra Elite 85h
The true magic is how seamless they immediately switch between phones and laptops. If I’m listening to a podcast on my phone but need to join a teams call or want to watch a video on my computer, I don’t even need to pause the podcast. The switch is immediate and automatic to the new audio source.
Also audio sharing with other people with AirPods works really well.
They typically last longer than non iPhones.
More importantly, I am a middle aged software developer who doesn’t want to customise his phone. I am happy to have a handset where I am limited. Gone are my days of geeking out and customising everything. I just want something that works for me.
The time to get an Android instead of an iPhone was any time since 2008 when Android first became available.
He saying he didn't pay for the walled garden he's now stuck in, he inhereted the iPhone.
When is a gift not a gift?
He got a hand-me-down iPhone because he's poor, and has decided it's better than no phone, but is sad it's still a walled garden despite other people being rescued.
Is there a joke I'm missing?
Yes I am, i bought to Apple fully know that it not allow side loading and happy with it. If I want side loading, I would switch to Android immediately and stop bitching about Apple. (Not that I said you bitching but alot of other people are doing it)
malicious_compliance.jpg
Imagine if steam only enabled refunds for australian customers and no one else, lmao.
Main point of the argument is that Valve said screw it, and gave everyone refunds, because it was the right thing to do
All other countries without sideloading mandates
Every 3rd world country that was already jail breaking and sideloading apps anyway:
