https://arstechnica.com/?p=2030086
More than just streaming, playing games locally "is really important" to Spencer.
Not an official announcement, but it's probably safe to assume an Xbox handheld is in development.
And it's absolutely Microsoft's cycle. New game changer product comes on the market, they rush a half ass version out with the promise of a really good one later, half ass one flops, they scrap the whole idea because no one wants the half ass version, they fade into obscurity.
Tablets, VR, video chat, phones
Anyone remember this?
Not an ad. Microsoft employees held a funeral for iphone and blackberry when MS released windows phone 7.
https://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-iphone-funeral-2010-9
I loved windows phone, the UI was so clear (I still use square home on android to this day), the camera app was superb and it was a very efficient operating system for low end hardware.
It didn’t have a ton of apps but honestly I don’t know, sometimes that doesn’t feel like a bad thing for a thing I am always trying to make more into a tool than an addiction….
Sure windows phone wasn’t going to grow rapidly for years, but it was well situated to take advantage of an opportunity in the future when apple or google stumbled and created an opening. I think for a company as large as Microsoft just abandoning it entirely was a massively stupid move. Now Microsoft has a gigantic blind spot in mobile, and they are stuck in that position.
I would never buy an Xbox handheld. Why would you want a handheld that is locked into Microsoft’s ecosystem even more than a Windows handheld? You’ll get maybe ten to fifteen years out of it, then it will become a brick that Microsoft has abandoned. You will never have fond memories of playing on the Xbox handheld that you can recreate with physical hardware. You’ll never get to show your kids what gaming was like on the thing, because the authentication servers were shut off years ago, and now it is a worthless paperweight.
You’ll get maybe ten to fifteen years out of it
That's way longer than most consoles last before the servers get turned off
Microsoft is at least good about supporting their gaming hardware for quite a while. But better than other consoles still isn’t good enough. I’ve got a computer from ~1990 that still works and can play contemporary PC games. You can bet the Steam Deck will still work in 2060.
Microsoft could just drop a Windows handheld that can play Xbox games natively.
The Xbox already runs on a custom VM based on Windows 10/11. Microsoft themselves are the only ones keeping the two who systems separated by artificial software limitations.
They could, but they won’t.
They could also release a handheld gaming PC that runs Windows under their Surface brand, if they wanted to go that route.
That's something that could have even saved them money on R&D for the Xbox itself, but there's no way in hell they would allow you to use your gaming console as a desktop.
It is fascinating how they are willing to waste a shitload of money just to lock users into an ecosystem. Imagine how easy it would be to just run Windows on the Xbox and allow to boot into desktop or game mode as needed. That would have been a huge selling point against Playstation, but "make life better for your users" will never be part of MS's philosophy.
Microsoft : "When we added all the extra 'features' of Win11 into our Xbox OS, we saw a severe drop in performance. So we have kept them separate." Customers : "So you do agree the features in Win11 are detrimental to the user experience?" Microsoft : "Fuck no, those features are essential for a user. Btw, have you upgraded to Win11?"
Way ahead of you. I would never buy an Xbox. Or anything microsoft for that matter. It's just been better this way.
No, it would use the same Microsoft auth it already uses for xbox, outlook, windows etc.
“Hey boss we have the tech from Surface Division to form factor the new Xbox and portable the same. People could just buy one device.”
*Out the Windows boardroom guy meme*
I'm assuming it's gonna be a lame attempt to capitalize on the steam deck's success with hope that popular DRM game exclusives will drive sales.
Although I'm pretty sure the MSI Claw already proved that won't work. Even if it had been good in hardware, the addition of only a few select games didn't justify the cost or performance of windows on a handheld.
Unless they put some actual development and research behind it, which they won't, it'll probably last only a few years before they have to cancel due to sunk cost and lack of game sales.
They'd need to properly place DirectX with a clean NT kernel on some good hardware, and make a completely new (and usable) UI like Xbox without sacrificing battery power, which even the deck struggled to accomplish.
Considering how cruddy windows 11 has been, Xbox nuking teams left & right, and MSFT throwing all their budget at AI, I just don't see it happening.
I consider this comment naive. Microsoft selling a powerful arm based handheld might be extremely successful and totally viable. They have already done the rnd for x86 backwards compatibility on arm and have a close relationship with Qualcomm.
On top of this, I doubt many of the Steam Deck's current competitors could have sold at a loss like Valve did (IIRC, they sold at a loss or at least pretty close to it). Microsoft, however, definitely has the spare money as a larger corp if they decided to really back the XBox/Gaming division. Price-wise, they could compete. If they're in the same pricing ballpark, manage a reasonable quality handheld, and can promise perfect windows compatibility with games, that might be something.
I guess but Microsoft truly feels like it is abandoning any commitment to making Windows function well for users.
They basically seem to think people have no choice and that they can focus their entire business on turning Windows into a surveillance advertisement platform.
In this environment, launching a windows handheld would be a laughable joke honestly.
The numbers don’t show it yet, but in the longterm Windows has catastrophically lost the home user operating system market and they deserve to for their awful stewardship of the market.
I could only see this working if it came with 6 free months of GamePass, or if it was some kind of loss leader to sell games on their store.
Unless it's as easy to install games from the other stores, why would you otherwise pay to live in a tiny, walled garden?
I would expect it to be a loss leader. The cheap price combined with brand recognition, advertising, and a streamlined experience could make it a successful product I think.
Even the ROG Ally comes with a free month of GamePass Ultimate, and a new Xbox comes with 90 days. I don't see why a MS first party handheld wouldn't come with some.
Their competition is the Deck and other handhelds that run full versions of Windows, there's no reason to believe they wouldn't give it the same kind of capacities (i.e. a real handheld PC) in which case it's the Deck that will feel like a walled garden considering that not all games are compatible and not all launchers work on it.
I say that as a Deck owner that plays with it pretty much once a day.
I've heard from some others that there was a version of Windows (I'm blanking on which one) that worked great on tiny computers, so if they were to revive the project, it could be a really viable competitor.
The other handhelds that run Windows suffer from it being too much of a traditional PC first and not having enough "console" in them, from what I hear. Can't say from first hand experience, though, since I also own a Deck.
Either way, time will tell what eventually comes out of that brief sentiment.
Yep, Windows 8 had a mobile/tablet version.
I also mentioned in another comment that they could simply do the same thing as with the Deck, have it start with a handheld/controller friendly UI (hmmm where could Microsoft's Xbox division find that?) and give the option to switch to regular old Windows to do desktop stuff. It's not as if playing on the desktop without a mouse and keyboard attached to the Deck is a fun experience either!
And their gamepads for Xbox were pretty good too. Past tense, because those of the Xbox Series X suck (including the "Elite").
I mean if you get an xbox series x/s controller used off eBay for ~$30 and then the armor x pro
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/3256804278375316.html?gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt
You have a mad decent gyro capable controller with four back buttons. Basically the controller Microsoft should have made.
Probably the best deal on a premium gyro capable controller on the market right now so shrugs.
Nah probably the deck. Switch has been out for a long time these companies didn't start rushing to make these portables until after steam deck. With your logic why stop at the switch. Switch? TRY THE GAME BOY MY GUY
That literally has nothing to do with it as evident by the fact that these handheld didn't start coming out until after the steam deck. Switch total sales have been high for years now. This is a new trend. You're free to think whatever you want though
You cannot compare these. While it is true that the switch sold 13 million+ units it's first year, these are worldwide sales, while the Steam deck started (and still is) only in a few select markets, and started at a bit over 1 million units sold the first year. That's what, 8% compared to the Switch's first year? The deck was not being sold (at least not directly) in over 92% of the countries where the Switch was, so it seems like they are on par, or at least very close, by region.
Also consider that the switch is more targeted at kids, while the deck is targeted at more mature players.
TL;DR You can compare. By total sales to unequivocally know why everyone wants the same form factor.
It’s weird the coolaid drinkers cant read the start of threads to stay on topic.
The switch came out 7 years ago my guy. The steamdeck was definitely inspired by the switch, but the steamdeck has something the switch doesnt: hardware that runs modern releases that normally only run on pc or a powerful console. This is why microsoft is interested in the market now: they realised the time is here for handheld gaming that can play homeconsole releases.
Sometimes its not just about selling enough to justify creation of new device. Sometimes its the potential that they have in mind. The prices are quite high, so they probably make some bucks out of it while it is hot. Soon the market on PC gaming handhelds will be saturated. Then they need to innovate and create something outstanding in whatever way. At least this is what the optimist in me thinks.
Then they need to innovate and create something outstanding...
There's the snag. Anything they innovate or create that's outstanding will 100% be anti-consumer. That, or their version of innovation will be forcing an update to your system that pretty much brick it to ensure you buy a newer model (at least for countries that don't have strong pro-consumer laws). I can count the number of companies on a single hand that I would trust not to do that.
If they can't pull this off as an ARM device and recompile all the games to run on it, then don't bother.
There's nothing they can really bring to this that the Steam Deck hasn't already done better.
If Microsoft stuck with what it already does, it would be better. They already have cloud streaming technology which makes playing games on their ecosystem possible on any screen. Having a separate handheld console would complicate things. I just don't see the appeal.
They are risking Linux becoming an actual thing in the portable, desktop & living room spaces.
I said this earlier in the thread but I am very confident at this point that Microsoft already lost this battle to Linux in the longterm. Particularly because Linux operating system devs don’t care about AI and Microsoft is obsessed with it like all other dumb massive tech companies and honestly it is going to lead nowhere in terms of providing a useful basis for an operating system especially if the foundation you are working from sucks (glares at Microsoft and Windows). So volunteer Linux devs actually have a huge lead here even though Microsoft has wayyyyy more resources and money because Microsoft is firehosing it all at the stupidest shit while they fire core team members left and right destroying their longterm capability to create quality products.
You really have to understand AI as the dream come true from sociopathic tech CEOs standpoint, they can finally get rid of the humans, fire most of the programmers and suck up so much data that they can create an UBER AI that knows all…. except reality doesn’t work like that. No matter, reality is kept safely at bay always at least 4 kilometers from the Microsoft C-suite at all times.
The shift just hasn’t happened yet like a dead tree limb hanging on until that gust of wind comes along and the whole limb comes crashing down abruptly weeks after the storm that weakened it.
Yes, devs work on Linux. Now, since the Deck, people (2%) are starting to game on Linux. The next battlefields are the desktop and the living room. The latter could be solved by a Deck 2 (and a new dock) with E-GPU support. That is trickier, there needs to happen a lot of things, and is much more complex.
Why would anyone buy this? You can already do this streaming through the Deck or any of the other handhelds, if Game Pass is your thing.
A big part of the Deck outselling the competition is price. An Xbox handheld could be sold at a loss (like the deck) with the plan of making the money back on Microsoft store/Xbox store sales.
I doubt even Microsoft are stupid enough to think they could release a PC-based gaming handheld without Steam support and not fail spectacularly.
but xbox games could run o it?, pc games runs on steam deck because you can lower the graphics, they can make the same for xbox games?
They use the xbox brand for microsoft store pc games too, and it's probably those + gamepass that it would run. Those should let you lower the graphics.
Also if the device is successful, it might actually get more devs to release their games on the Microsoft store instead of just on Steam, which would be a win-win for Microsoft.
I saw a video on the extent they went to locking down the Xbox, I think they would do the same for the handheld.
Every console they release is so locked down you can't even install their own os on it, I think you're wrong.
"if only we had a way to like, take a desktop pc and make it, like, not tethered to a power outlet. and made the mouse and keyboard a part of the case. and added a screen and speakers too. too bad we have no idea how to do that." -Microsoft, as they shove the 10,000 laptops off of the desk. "guess we will have to do it ourselves."
(yeah yeah a laptop "isn't a handheld" but you get the stupidity all the same, surely. MS abandoned their platform just to make a different, more constrained platform, and charge people for multi-player. and they want to act like they couldn't do that 25 years ago for free. fuck off MS.)
To be fair, gaming laptops kinda suck (at least they did when I owned one). I would probably recommend a steam deck + a desktop over a gaming laptop.
Same. Every gaming laptop i have ever had the displeasure of using has been absolute garbage.
The steam deck on the other hand? Pure kino.
What's the difference? Afaict most of the problems with gaming laptops (e.g. the form factor introducing restrictions on power and cooling capacity) are independent of the specific os and hardware. How does the steam deck solve them better?
Gaming laptops are both too big to be portable, and yet subpar for a desktop experience. I feel like they're an inconvenient compromise between something focused on being a portable gaming experience and a desktop computer, and they fail to meet either need well.
I am one of those that fell for the falacy of "gaming laptops" because I have to travel a lot for work, and need my dose of gaming to stay sane. As such, I usually played on console when at home, work on a non-gaming PC, and tried to game on a laptop while away.
I found that, while I was able to somewhat play a bit while on the ground, those laptops are huge power suckers. This lead to any flight over 2 hours leaving me at the expense of the airline's ad-ridden and ridiculously limited "entertainment" (those that provide it and IF they provided it). Never mind how freaking hot they get and how heavy that shot is (21 pounds with the power brick).
The deck has saved my life. I can carry a powerful laptop that will give me 8+ hours of battery for my in-flight media consumption and watch whatever the he'll I want without being exposed to ads and the pilot interrupting my enjoyment, and I can play anything available offline on my deck at any point.
Unfortunately I still have a "gaming" system76 laptop that is only 2 years old, this is my second (and last) "gaming" laptop. My next travel companion will not have, nor need, dedicated GPU, because the deck covers that itch.
I have only positive experience with them. The only downside is it gets hot like hell, but other than that it works spectacularly.
My experience with them is they're too large to be portable in any sort of convenient way, have terrible battery life, struggle to compete with desktops for performance (without spending a huge amount on the laptop), frequently have overheating issues (especially as they age), and lack the upgrade freedom of a desktop requiring you to buy a brand new laptop every few years.
My personal experience is based on an $1850 Asus gaming laptop I had 10 years ago though, so maybe things have changed since then or other brands are better.
Called it months ago, they'll develop a handheld version of Windows and have their own handheld!
If the controller feels as good as my Elite 2 then I'm sold
Windows 8 was an attempt to do all that already, though I don't know that it succeeded. My guess is that this sort of handheld will run a stripped down version of Windows running the Xbox app.
Well Windows 8 phones were considered to be awesome by those who had one, it's the lack of support from third party that killed mass adoption.
Also, if we're looking at the past to decide what is and isn't possible then gaming on Linux is impossible.
Let's not pretend that using the desktop on a Deck is a wonderful experience either, Steam's big picture mode is just a front end that improves the experience and Microsoft could do the equivalent by reusing the Xbox UI with the option to fall back to Windows 11 proper and then people could launch another launcher from there if they wanted. Heck people could launch Steam in big picture mode from their Xbox handheld if they wanted!
Oh, I was wondering how it was going to happen. So many of these games look fantastic and like a good strong future ahead for Xbox. So I was wondering how they were going to screw this up.
Xbox Remote Play already works on the Steam Deck and Android devices. Not sure on iOS, I haven't tried that, but I've personally run it on my Android tablet and Steam Deck.
I'll expect unhealthy, if I'm wrong I'm pleasantly surprised. That probably won't happen though
Still healthier than Nintendo owning the handheld gaming market
Mind, a VERY low bar to clear
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Speaking on stage as part of an IGN Live interview, Spencer said directly that "I think we should have a handheld, too."
The comment stops just short of an official announcement that Microsoft is actively working on portable gaming hardware for the first time.
"The future for us in hardware is pretty awesome," Spencer continued during the IGN presentation.
Comments like these are a big change from internal Microsoft documents that leaked last September, which listed an Xbox portable as a "current gap in FY23" that is "not in scope for 1st party" (alongside potential products like a mobile controller, earbuds, and a media remote).
But Spencer was quick to call that leak "outdated" at the time, so it might not be the last word on Microsoft's portable gaming plans.
That feels like ancient history, though, in a world where everyone and their corporate subsidiary is looking to draft off the market success of the Steam Deck.
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