https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-03-19/brexit-s-lasting-economic-and-financial-damage-looks-inescapable
By almost every economic and financial measure, parting ways with the EU almost eight years ago has been disastrous for the UK. Is there no end in sight?
Just look at the propaganda the right was pushing out at the time.
https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/
It's complete fantasy and almost nothing it predicted came to pass.
What on earth kind of fever dream did I just read? This looks like it was written with the power of hindsight to be able to present the exact inverse of everything that happened, yet somehow wasn't.
Seriously, this reads like a time traveler trolling us on the long con.
It really is a bizarre document. I could understand a wishlist or even a future tense fantasy, but the way they wrote it in past tense from a future vantage is just bonkers. It's so weird.
But looking at the dates it was published a couple days before the actual Brexit vote, which they expected to lose, so I think this was meant as a tantalizing fantasy to use to chide people once the vote failed. But then it didn't.
What the shit? That article is utter, utter tripe. They're not even celebrating an 'independence day', which out of the things described in that garbage writeup would have been one of the easiest things to accomplish.
The last thing most EU leaders wanted, once the shock had worn off, was a protracted argument with the United Kingdom which, on the day it left, became their single biggest market. Terms were agreed easily enough.
Lmao
It was also absurd at the time. The way he talks about REACH is insane. He thinks the chemical industry in the EU wasnt powerful enough to lobby against unessescary legislation?
REACH is the minimum we agreed on to not have everyone and their dog be exposed to harmful chemicals and work towards using somewhat less harmful chemicals.
What he was demanding there is deregulating in the style of putting lead back into gasoline.
it usually is. And ask about it, they'll say lead's fine. They've never even heard that it's poisonous, they'll look at you like you're a four-eyed frog when you tell them, and then they'll ask for a citation. And you're not even allowed to just stab them at that point, even as a mercy killing.
To be fair, this is about June 2025, so they still have some 15 months to accomplish it all. /s
The amount of "I'm shocked, Shocked I tell you, SHOCKED... that the leopards have chosen to eat my face off as well!" is staggering, and only understandable to me b/c I live in the USA, where we are doing pretty much the same thing.
"Facts" do not matter to conservatives, only how they "feel" about something, in the moment.:-(
They take the message of their religion and turn it into veneration of their ego. If democratic participation required a test first, we wouldn't be having this problem, nor dozens of others.
There are driving tests, and vehicle registration, but the truly dangerous stuff like guns and voting have that vastly reduced to eliminated.
History shows that every expansion of voting was accompanied by some new party looking to get elected by so doing. And now conservatives are doing similarly to what you said, and opposite to those historical expansions, by increasing restrictions / decreasing availability for college students to vote. Basically whatever helps them win. Liberals likewise are trying to get former prisoners onto the rosters, as conservatives have been pushing for the opposite.
But the uneducated people would not take kindly to having the conservative strategy, levied against others, turned around and used against them. What "should" be done, what "makes sense", is irrelevant in politics, which is the art of doing what is possible, not what is correct.
I was a remainer but unfortunately I don't think rejoining would win a vote any time soon.
We had a good deal when we were in the EU and won't get the same terms - and joining under the standard terms (Eurozone membership, common agricultural policy etc) would not be attractive. It'll be harder fight to electorally to rejoin than it was to stay in, at least at the moment.
I think it's more likely we will fudge rejoin by rejoining the single market, taking the rules without a say but it's hardly any party's priority. The tories have imploded and Labour dare not mention the EU as all they care about is winning the election this year. The EU just isn't talked about as an electoral issue anymore.
Also I should say from within the UK, leaving the EU hasn't felt particularly negative. Our economic problems started before we left the EU with the financial crisis in 2011, so we were used to "austerity"and anemic growth. Also while the country hasn't grown it also hasn't contracted, it's stagnated. That's not good but it's not as impactful on ordinary people. And Covid had also been a distraction - a lot of economic harm has been blamed on Covid even though the EU and USA in particular have more than bounced back while the UK has only really gone back to baseline.
So for most UK citizens we haven't seen the doom and gloom that was warned about specifically from leaving the EU, hence the lack of a push to rejoin.
I think it may be some years yet before rejoining the EU is on the cards. And in fairness there is a lot that could be done to improve growth even without rejoining the EU - so I suspect it'll be ignored as an issue for at least the next parliament (5 years).
joining under the standard terms (Eurozone membership, common agricultural policy etc) would not be attractive
Why not? It would still be much, much better than not being in the EU, economically speaking. Is it about pride?
The UK thought it was getting a poor deal, when it had the most exceptions in the EU. It will still need another generation or two for the UK to realise that it is not the old empire anymore.
The UK collectively freaked the fuck out about passport colors. Passport colors.
If we tell them they have to get rid of their QEII paper bills to replace them with imaginary bridges, they might just commit nationwide seppuku. I don't want that on my conscience so for everyone's sake let them stay out.
i'm pretty sure their nationwide seppuku is already what we're talking about, actually...
I lived in the UK for a decade until Brexit.
Most of the population has massive Nationalistic Delusions Of Grandeur, including Remainers (one of the Remain arguments was "We should stay in the EU and change it from the inside" or in other words, Britain and it's 50 million people know best and should be making the other 470 million and 27 countries to change their community for the benefit of Britain), though the Leave campaign was incredibly deluded, mainly anchored on what can be summarized as "we'll leave and they'll still give us the priviledges of membership but without the obligations".
There really was none of the "let's cooperate for the common good" spirit that most other countries have (some more of it, some less) with regards to EU membership, and their take on the EU was all "what can we get from it" and, as far as I can tell, still is. (This, by the way, is quite consistent with how Britain behave when inside the EU: it was allways "what's in it for me", always a you win or you lose vision, seldom if at all win-win)
Until that widespread heavilly nationalist and quite deluded spirit amongst the British population changes (and all that stuff is heavilly pushed by the local Press, with for example the coverage of International news there always slanted to make it seem like other countries are listenning to Britain and its PM, which is very much not the idea that the coverage of the same news in other countries passes) Britain won't be back, and frankly, having seen it up close and personal from the inside, I think is best for the rest of the EU that Britain stays out until its people accept it's just another mid-sized country and Britain becomes a normal country rather than this "old wierd uncle of Europe who is constantly going on and on about war stories which are almost a century old"
This is all very well put.
I look at the situation - strategically, economically, socially - and it makes me want to scream, the UK never understood how good they had it with the pound/euro deal and it's prominence in policy - and that's gone, bye bye. Any Britain that does go back will be very different - and I think it may eventually end up being that after Scotland leaves for the EU. And never count out the Welsh, they may follow Scotland too.
Still, it'll take a crisis or a war or something.
It's always been my conviction that the English would rather crash their economy five times over than be one among equals. So I don't think that we'll see them anytime soon. Beyond specifically the English is another topic, however.
I suspect that's true for the English within the United Kingdom of England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland right now.
Everything you wrote maybe factual and rational but the "let's leave one of the biggest trading blocks in the world - we'll be better off" crowd has no need of that.
If people can be convinced of rainbows on the other side of the cliff ("just jump off and see") - I don't think weighing the individual relativistic points of rejoining has any merits as a strategy.
You are better off spending 100% of your energy in flippant promotions about no more queues for Ibiza or cheap produce on the shelf and other greener pastures.
The electorate had no fucking clue how good they had it, they will be just as unconcerned about regaining that exact position.
After all forget about any of the details of the implementation - that can be worked out after, just like brexit. Happy happy blue skies until the election.
I think so too. One way to improve growth would be to align with the EU to facilitate trade. The EU being the biggest and closest market. That goes very much against the sovereignty argument though, as it would mean following EU rules without any say in them.
I mean duh. This was all pretty obvious in terms of outcomes when this all was starting.
Some effects started before brexit was official. As institutions and individuals sought to minimize negative impact. I recall reading about european students leaving british universities pre brexit.
Depends on how you look at it. Some effects were probably visible even before the referendum just by announcing that. But on the other hand if you think "8 years ago is long enough that we should have seen all the effects by now" then the 4 year figure is probably more appropriate to make that evaluation.
A lot of brexiters legit thought they'll get to enjoy free travel within the EU, but not the EU citizens to the UK.
I think it needs to be more than that. Citizens absolutely cannot trust politicians any longer. 100% across the board full stop. If they tell you one thing you initial reaction should be massive skepticism. And then you go from there.
If you think you could ever trust anyone else outside maybe you closest friends and family to act in your best interest you are naive.
On the other hand if you think that all politicians are equally untrustworthy you are even more naive.
I disagree 100% but it's just my opinion. The world of politics, at least in the US, needs to earn back trust at this point. Are there good politicians? Of course. Can you readily identify them? Probably not easily. Are they making a significant impact at this moment? Almost impossible to tell given the state of journalism. So what should average citizen do to combat this? At worst trust but verify. At best, question everything.
99% of what i hear and read, directly from politicians state sanctioned websites (official .gov page) is platitudes. Gonna fix everything? Great, please tell me how abd be really fuckin specific.
Citizens absolutely cannot trust politicians any longer.
Any longer? When was the golden age of politicians?
For Europe? 1940s-60s while bretton woods held and the US had a trade surplus it was offloading into Europe.
I can assure you that's not the case. I neither upvoted or down voted the comment but I am certainly the problem. So be more careful to where you point your fuck yous.
The only surprising thing here is that apparently someone was expecting things to get better. lulz to them
Can't imagine why a nation whose economy has depended on trade for 500 years would have long term consequences for losing trade deals with all their closest and largest markets.
This really just goes to show the strength of the global economy overall.
You're not going to play hard to get with it. You try to leave or isolate yourself, and you lose. The gaps left will be filled in quickly, and the world will move on.
It's almost like things like this should be decided by educated economic experts and not a fucking referendum.
While I do loves me a good great meme reference, please remember that a lot of people voted against it - there are a bunch of innocents that got wrapped up along with all of this, as well as the perpetrators and the collaborators too ofc.
Genuinely felt some betrayal and paranoia after I voted against it and it went through.
Similar to here when our own conservative-party, orange-haired wacko-clown won... at least you can hold your own head high, having fought against it:-).
I remember waking up after the referendum and being really sad, the UK was an ally to us Danes on most EU-issues, and it felt a little bit like a breakup. I still haven't really forgiven you lot, to be honest, which is silly but true.
I think most Europeans felt that, because after all the uk was a founding member and an integral and valued part of the union with an unprecedented amount of preferential treatment. When they left it was a bit like your partner leaves to fuck some homewrecker for a couple months before they realize how good they had it, but it’s ruined now.
The UK wasn't a founding member, unless you start counting from the Maastricht treaty, and that was really just a continuation of the others going back to about 1948.
And then it got worse as the goal posts kept changing as to what "Brexit" meant. To the point where a no deal went from being something remain were lampooned for saying could happen to being apparently what people wanted.
True but it’s also firmly out of our European hands now. The uk left, and we only let them back in when they have learned some humility and are willing to rejoin on standard conditions. That is not happening yet.
Definitely - they had it all, but got greedy and pushed for even more, and since they made it adversarial you gotta protect yourself. It's like you are building this wonderful thing, but if they want to strike out on their own that is up to them. Nobody was forcing their hand there.
That’s all true, I was being a bit smug about it. It’s a great tragedy that has already negatively affected many lives on both sides of the channel.
That said, the temptation to turn the words of obnoxious Top Gear guy against brexiteers was just too large to resist.
