https://www.politico.eu/article/german-bjorn-hocke-alternative-for-deutschland-germany-disabled-children-school-system/
Disability campaigners and top politicians react with fury to AfD chief’s proposal.
He probably wants to do worse, but can't say it out load yet. He's a fucking Nazi.
Yeah, people always seem to think the AfD is one united front.
But they span the whole gamut from Tucker Carlson ultra-right-wing-but-also-no-grasp-on-factual-reality to literally-a-fucking-nazi-wanting-to-burn-jews-themselves-in-their-own-oven.
They're abhorrend as a party, and the fact that so much of the shit media in Germany low-key supports them hard and pushes people towards voting for them (namely and chiefly the Axel Springer media landscape which is sadly huge) and as a result they get quite a significant number of votes is... "worrying" to put it mildly. As a German in particular, I have genuine plans how and where to move if shit hits the fan, which at the present rate it will. >.> (Ireland, probably)
That's a kinda dumb assumption of them though. Faschism is a highly state-controlled system. If the government doesn't like you, you and your property are gone.
Yes, it is dumb, but it is in fact what they are doing.
Same story is playing out across much of europe - the conservatives and right liberals are building coalitions with the fascists, because without them the left would win, and that is apparently less acceptable to them than enabling authoritarians.
Pretty alarming, honestly.
It's the capitalist's short sightedness. They don't care for what happens in 10 years, or even in two years. If they can make money/gain power right now, all is fair game.
ironically like with the Nazis, the capitalists who are pushing this shit, do so because they have a very real chance of being the state, it is not highly state controlled, because fascism is a modern day barbarism, the state just being an organizational cover and legitimization of an elite aristocracy to do what they want.
remember when the Nazis took power they privatized almost all public works of the Weimar, and privatized it into their own ownership.
If you have corrupt and all-powerful state leaders, in my opinion it doesn't matter much whether all the companies are privatized into the leader's ownership or owned by a state they control with their absolute power.
Hitler and Stalin had about the same level of control about important industries in their respective systems.
I think we should stop calling them conservative and say it like it is. They are (far) right lunatics that fear everyone and everything that doesn't fit their narrow point of view and outdated values.
Come to Austria everything is so much better here /s
(I'm not sure if there is a country where there isn't a drift towards stupi... ehh "right-wing conservative politics")
Yup! So much so that even members of a party under investigation for being a nazi front tried to expel him.
This is beautiful, though:
After Höcke's "monument of shame" comment, the Center for Political Beauty, a Berlin-based art collective, erected a full-scale replica of one section of the Holocaust memorial in Berlin within viewing distance of Höcke's home in Bornhagen as a reminder of German history.
I didn't, the source I quoted did. Would be pretty weird for me to make a point of adding it as if it makes him any more or less of a nazi scumbag to have that very common in Germany name 🤷
I hate the AFD so much. Me and lots of other Germans try so hard to show the World that Germany is a modern inclusive and liberal Democracy from its deepest core and then POS like Höcke comes along and does shit like this. And I really can't understand how anyone at all will believe anything that anyone from this shit show of a political party says. They are willing to sell out Germany to Russia, the have shown that they don't care about anyone and everything they are interested in is spreading hate and getting in Power. I hate them so much.
Like all right-wing parties they lack any actual real agenda. That is, they're not interested in running the currently existing state, they want their fascist WW3 Nazi Germany with them at the helm. Rather, their entire political "argument" right now is "Current stuff is SHIT!". That's how they get all their votes, from people being angry and disappointed.
But, much as I like to ramble about current politicians (since you can't call the AfD fuckers "politicians"), things can be shit outside of the control of anyone in particular. As if Höcke could have handled COVID. Imagine what a disaster it would have been if he had any say in it. Imagine how even the nascent efforts at climate would be worse. Inclusion, Russia, education, health, there's not a single topic the AfD would improve if they got power. And they were openly do not intend to improve anything. They're completely open about it.
but then again ...germans. they pretend to be open minded and inclusive. but the deeper you look, there more you see it is a fake. you pin this in afd but seem to have forgotten CDU/CSU, SPD and the other crooks. germans just do not acknowledge it and thereby just feed to it.
example: https://blog.till-westermayer.de/index.php/2017/08/08/rechtsruck-im-political-compass-ernsthaft/
so in 2017 germans wrote blogs there wouldnt be a rise in facism. numbers today say: there is a rise and it did not stop.
what did you do to stop it but bitch?
Did you comb your Hair with a Hammer today? Or did just took a big swig out of a Jug of paint?
No?
Then let me deconstruct your Comment.
"but then again ...germans. they pretend to be open minded and inclusive. but the deeper you look, there more you see it is a fake."
At first you start with generalisation. You've never met all Germans, you've never get to know them good enough to say what is deep down in them. So this entire paragraph is completely irrelevant and says nothing except for "I have no Argument but I want to say something".
"you pin this in afd but seem to have forgotten CDU/CSU, SPD and the other crooks. germans just do not acknowledge it and thereby just feed to it."
Then a healthy pinch of "What-about-ism". We are talking about the AFD not about the shortcomings of other political Partys. No one said they did everything right and no one said it's only the fault of the AFD. You just made that one up!
"so in 2017 germans wrote blogs there wouldnt be a rise in facism. numbers today say: there is a rise and it did not stop."
And then you present one example which has a relevance close to nothing. If you can't follow why here are two things that literally changed Europe if not the World and happend after 2017:
-Corona Pandemic 2020 -Escalation of the Ukraine Conflict to full scale War 2022.
These events and especially the political followup were not predictable in 2017. So what you are proving is widespread common Knowledge: The world was different in 2017. Congratulations that you realised this now. Better late than never.
"what did you do to stop it but bitch?"
And to put the Cherry on top a personal insult which bears again no significance to anything. But I will answer your question anyway. Since I'm a civilized Citizen of Germany and not some violence ridden fashist I will go and vote and call out fashism and disinformation everywhere were I see it.
All in all your debating skills are on the level of 4 Year old. You present facts which are outdated and are irrelevant. You try to steer the debate away from its original topic. You set up Strawmen. And you get insulting if you have nothing else to say.
If you have the mental capacity to do so, work on that. Until then I have nothing else to say to you.
I wish you a terrible Day!
I have a suspicion they're an AfD supporter.
PS. "Did you comb your hair with a hammer" won the internet today.
I know a person who has worked as an individual assistant of special needs pupils for many years and he thinks that specialized schools can provide better and more adequate care than the inclusive approach in common schools. Criticism of our education system is necessary and important but what Bernd Höcke has to say about it is of course irrelevant. Even if a part of his criticism might be accidentally valid, he -as always- is criticizing these things for the wrong reasons because of his neonazi background. Has this guy even worked with special needs pupils? From what I know he was just a generic history teacher before he went into right-wing populism so his competence in the matter is questionable at best.
I don’t have a wide experience to draw on but I have one very vivid direct experience of this.
Years ago I was shadowing a teacher for a day when I was considering teaching as a career. In one class there was a kid who had a gonzo remark to make for everything the teacher said. The whole class laughed at his every word. It was really disruptive. He made a clown of himself and the teacher did nothing. Even stranger, his girlfriend was practically sitting in his lap, stroking his wrist, and kissing his neck the entire time, and the teacher also did nothing. The whole flow of the class was destroyed and I remember nothing else from that hour. It blew my mind that the teacher just let it happen.
Later, I realized that my interpretation of what I’d seen was all wrong. The kid wasn’t a smartass. He was differently abled. He wasn’t trying to be disruptive, but he couldn’t control himself well and kept reacting out loud to the lecture, saying things like “oh shit they shot the archduke?” It did create a funny effect, but the class was mostly laughing along with him. Perhaps he had Tourette’s? And it wasn’t his girlfriend kissing him, it was his dedicated teacher sitting with him, whispering in his ear to try to coach him and get his disruptions under control.
I was across the room from him with an obstructed view and the dedicated teacher was very young which all helped me misread it at first.
But still. The level of disruption was totally undeniable. In addition to consuming an entire teacher of his own, the kid took over the rest of the class and impacted everyone.
I couldn’t have designed a costlier setup with worse results for everyone if I’d tried.
I couldn’t have designed a costlier setup with worse results for everyone if I’d tried
You severely underestimate the costs of effective special education schools. In general, dedicated special education is more expensive than embedding care in general schools. What you saw was a cost cutting measure, and the student and teachers in that class paid the price.
What is cheaper is basically warehousing disabled students until they turn 18 without making any effort to teach them anything. That’s undoubtedly going to be the next step.
A dedicated teacher per disabled pupil seems pretty far from warehousing them. One teacher for the other 45… that’s closer to “warehousing” in my opinion.
If you’re to dedicate a single teacher to every disabled student, that’s pretty extraordinary resourcing by public school standards. But dropping that into an already crowded classroom and expecting the kid to consume the same curriculum in the same way… that’s just madness born of some zeal for equality.
I’m not sure what you saw exactly, or how it’s formally arranged in your country. Over here we’re transitioning from dedicated facilities to regular classrooms. The pupils get additional support, but a) that’s not a teacher, there are no formal qualifications required and b) the support generally not full time. The amount of support depends on the needs, but unless there are serious physical issues it’s hard to get more than 12 hours per week.
But dropping that into an already crowded classroom and expecting the kid to consume the same curriculum in the same way… that’s just madness born of some zeal for equality.
The zeal for equality is the marketing line. Believe it or not, the bean counters did the math and figured out it was cheaper, at least in the short term, to ruin 34 other people’s education than to give that man a place in an environment where he can thrive.
The zeal for equality is the marketing line. Believe it or not, the bean counters did the math and figured out it was cheaper, at least in the short term
That'd be less bad if this particular educational structure wasn't getting mandated as a "legal right to equal education", with any alternate structure being fought at every step by an array of institutional forces.
I have to ask how big was this school. One one of the schools I went to had only one deaf kid in the whole student body. So the school couldn't just put in special classes by himself and hire a whole new set a teachers for him. Now given deafness and what ever that kid had are very different and need different accommodation.
Yeah that’s a good counterexamples. Especially if your example was in a rural area I could see how there is no better alternative. My example was in a school of 1000 kids in a densely populated area.
There will be different solutions in different settings, for sure. And even for different kids in the same setting. I don’t like any plan that proscribes one solution for all.
I don't have that particular condition, but what I have has the possibility of being inconvenient to others. You might be pleased to know that I've spent more than a decade detached from society for the convenience of normal, healthy people. May you get everything out of life that you hope to.
Inconvenient is one thing. A constant disruption to the learning of 40 other kids is something else.
I, too, wish you all good things in life.
There is the socialization angle as well and not just for the disabled student. Everyone in that classroom saw the accomodations made to that student. It normalizes disabled people in society and normalizes the accomodations they need.
Not in this example. Disabled accommodations usually don’t harm everyone else. If you think it’s okay for all the kids to get a substandard education so that they can witness the disabled getting accommodation, well, first of all we’re going to fight, but also I think you underestimate how this sets him up for persecution, not appreciation.
What actually happens is that it normalizes making fun of people like him. I do feel the socialization angle is important, but remember that classroom culture is very much predicated on kids making fun of those who are "different".
First people push for mass abortions of disabled people (see Iceland), next they try to make living disabled people's lives horrible. Eugenics is making a comeback and nobody cares.
I brought this up on your instance and the mod deleted it and called me a slur
I'd say by the amount of comments on here that no one actually cares in Europe about the rise of Fascism, as whenever it gets brought up, people just deflect. Reddit was notorious for this
we really need to find a way to blunt the outside influence on our societies in Europe, a lot of the conservative-fascist push is coming from propaganda media of both the Russian state and rich conservatives like Murdoch (who, btw, is walking a fine line of not quite open neo-nazi at this point)
O partigiano portami via O bella ciao, bella ciao, bella ciao ciao ciao O partigiano portami via Che mi sento di morir, ir, ir-
I'm more sympathetic to letting people choose to abort fetuses with clear genetic or physical problems.The world isn't made a better place by more people with down syndrome. Very early genetic testing is helpful here.
However, not letting these people who do exist, and to some extent will probably always exist, live full enriched lives to the extent that they are able is rather horrible.
What does "mass abortions" mean exactly in this context?
You're probably talking about Iceland's "100% abortion rate for people with down syndrome"? Which comes to about 1 or 2 cases per year.
Exaggerating much?
Yeah I was about to ask about that. since a lot of disabilities can't be detected before birth
A lot of younger people don't know who Hitler was or just assume he's a funny meme these days. It's not their fault, this stuff is simply not taught in schools and I fear we're destined to make the same mistakes all over again.
Later added: "They need special care, we need to withdraw them from our normal schools and build camps to keep them together, preferably with easy rail access.
“All children deserve equal participation and more opportunities through inclusive education,” Brandenburg said.
I concur. Unfortunately I also somewhat concur with this weird guy on this topic because the current system does not result in equal participation.
The current system results in a lot of unhappy parents and unhappy students and burned out teachers.
That doesn't sound or look viable. But it is what we got in a lot of the EU.
The inclusion project almost always results in exclusion. Only in the first few years it does work.
After that it quickly becomes very apparent for all the kids that that one kid is different. And that the teacher spends all most all his time on that one kid. Which results in envy and jealousy. And that one kid also feels like shit because of that.
Kids, like adults, can and will be very mean.
In the school of my kids I've seen it work twice, in 13 years. All the other times it ended with a premature departure of the special needs kid.
Now I'm not talking about mild autism or mild adhd or a small mental deficiency. Those are manageable and those kids should be teached at a "normal" school. I'm talking about the severe cases of those and syndromes like down.
(source parent of 3 kids, in the Netherlands with somewhat the same system.)
Yeah, I've no doubt that Höcke is pursuing this for extremely cynical and gross reasons, but the broken clock is right twice a day. “Inclusion" is one of those policies that sounds so self-evidently positive and reasonable at a glance, that people's brains shut down and nobody thinks of potential downsides to it as a universal policy. A majority of kids who require special education fare much, much better in smaller classes taught by a special education teacher who can move through material more slowly and boil it down to easier-to-grasp concepts. Sticking them in a large classroom with 20-30 non-disabled peers, even with a SpEd teacher present, rarely has a positive effect, and more often than not leads to worse outcomes for all students present. Inclusion is at its core a cost-saving measure (it's cheaper to stick the SpEd kids in a GenEd classroom than making a dedicated class for them), but it wraps itself in progressive ideology so well that it's almost impossible for parents or teachers to argue against.
I agree, we should aim for regular schools if possible, but should watch out in taking our ideology too strictly and clouding our view on reality. If it's not manageable, a special school might be best for all parties.
We can still try, but not against one's better judgement.
so i come from a much much larger country and I need ask. What is the longest distance a student would need to travel to one of these schools. Over here in Texas we have a special school for the deaf in Austin, which can be more then 15 hours away from some places. So students there often just live at the school. Now for deafness we have hearing aids, CDI and deaf classes can be added to any school. With how rural Texas gets having separate schools would not be a viable option. Take where my mom lives, you could put down a copy of the Netherlands and it would around 10,000 people living in the whole area. With so few people you go years and not run into a single kid with certain disabilities. This makes separate schools completely unusable
Is this guy really a nazi? Is he really so bad? Educate me please since I know nothing about this guy.
Jesus, this world man. It seems I read dumb horrible shit every couple days. I always thing, nahh can't top that and then a couple days later some even more dumb horrible shit is posted.
It’s always been like this. It’s just now we hear about it more. But in a way it’s good. It shows we as a society collectively cringe more at this than condone it. Perhaps keeping it public and reminding people why they are stupid and ignorant through public scrutiny and outrage is one way to combat it.
Nothing in comparison to Alexander Gauland and Uwe Junge. Two leading members of the party.
Junge is a fucking evil psycho. Seen him live once and he literally enjoyed our protest against him with a smug face. Hard not to hate this shitstain.
In his defense, he does look like a 19th century businessman who drinks the tears of orphans who work in his factory. You gotta just assume he is a massive fucking asshole with a look like that.
This was my first thought - like man, maybe this dude is horrible because he's looked like that his whole life
Conservatism is a plague of oppression, sickness and death. It always has been.
History has shown that conservatism cannot be defeated by pacifism.
George Orwell wrote in 1942, during the war:
"Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other.“
With that said conservatism is not fascism, but one enables the other.
We're talking about AfD. They don't even hide the fact that they are nazis. People who vote for them never really learned from history.
This is horrifying of course, but I feel like coming out of a German politician in particular it's a bit of a red flag.
Why is it any different because they are German?
I know what you are going to say, but we are a globalized world now and there are fascists in all governments
Because history?
Like, I know the world is globalized now, and so are fascists, but that doesn't change the past century of events.
Yeah whatever, Germany is not the same Germany you are thinking of anymore. Germany has been made into a convenient scapegoat and you fell for it.
Dude, based on that Article, Germans had the same reaction I did. The difference is that I don't care as much, because my own country is slowly descending into fascism, while you guys (I'm assuming you're German) seem to have a lock on it.
I don't have to be afraid of Germany because (almost) everyone there was horrified and reacted with disgust. Your representatives and political thinkers seem to think that this guy is an asshole, and because of German history, Germany has a responsibility to stand up and say "Fuck You" to guys like this, especially when they're German.
I don't have to worry about Germany because Germany hasn't forgotten what happens when fascism infects a country. My country, on the other hand, has apparently forgotten, and the whole fucking world should be terrified.
It can never happen here is the attitude that lets it happen. That applies whether it's happened before or not. I know Germany is very different from what is was in the 1930s. I fucking lived there in the 90s. I'm not worried about Germany. It's still a bad look.
Good comment. I'm Canadian, but if you go to Germany today, you cannot avoid the holocaust memorials saying "we will not let this happen again". They are literally everywhere.
That said, I think that is in the past for Germany, and we need to be carefully watching places like Israel, China, that sort of thing. I don't think that this German is anymore concerning than the fascists running for government here in Canada though. I mean even nazi salute will land you in jail in Germany, that country is night and day compared to nazi rule. Germany is a left leaning nation now especially with the influx of immigration. I think it is time to stop blaming Germany for fascism in the world.
Oh, I'm not blaming Germany. Far from it. They didn't invent fascism. And I'm well aware of Germany's leftist leanings, their current track record concerning immigrants, and their position as a current moral world leader.
And I am concerned about China and fascists running for office in Canada... but I'm a bit preoccupied by the fascism here in the States right now. Well, the white nationalist shit, too. Also the rise of right-wing terrorism that our press refuses to call terrorism because it's being committed by white people I guess?
I don't think we're all that far apart, worldview wise. I'm just maybe a bit more sensitive to all this shit because we elected The Orange Menace.
Also, because we don't have Tim Horton's.
