https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/24/europe/james-cleverly-apology-date-rape-drug-intl-gbr/index.html
Britain’s Home Secretary James Cleverly has issued an apology for joking about spiking his wife’s drink with a date-rape drug every night.
Cleverly made the joke to female guests while attending a Downing Street reception earlier this month.
Yikes! The added context makes it even worse.
You just can't joke about anything anymore. The other day I went to church with my NAMBLA shirt on and the priests didn't appreciate it at all.
Not A Moron But Lazy American? Never Ask My Brother's Legs Anything?
What are you trying to say here?!?
"North American Man/Boy Love Association"
I had to google it... it's apparently a group that advocates for removing age of consent laws.
The TV show "South Park" made this a joke with the "Marlon Brandon Lookalikes". This is how many, of a certain age range, are familiar.
He reportedly joked that the secret to a long marriage was ensuring your spouse was "someone who is always mildly sedated so she can never realise there are better men out there"
"In what was always understood as a private conversation James, the Home Secretary tackling spiking, made what was clearly meant to be an ironic joke - for which he apologises," a spokesperson for Cleverly said in a statement.
So a self-deprecating, incredible obvious joke, told in private to friends, has people jumping to be offended!
People really need to save their outrage for serious stuff because being outraged over something like this minimizes actually serious situations. It's like the boy who cried wolf(read: outrage).
Edit: is also fairly obvious that most of you just read the headline and popped in to be outraged. Merry Christmas!
Yeah, this is ridiculous. Imagine living in a world where you are afraid of joking because people will lose their minds.
Even if his joke was even worse than this, who cares? The people at the party would have thought, "Wow, this guy is lame," and that would have been enough of a consequence.
What kind of puritanical, pearl-clutching, and judgemental society are we creating with these outrageous reactions. Get a life people.
If you wanna hate him, hate him for actual valid reasons. Don't become a petty gossip-monger.
It's a joke about drugging your wife. You know that's a real thing that happens, right?
You'll have to forgive me for not finding "I abuse my wife" a funny joke. I dont find abusing women to be a funny subject, really no matter the context. If he had said, "The secret to my long marriage is beating my wife," would you have still found it funny? Or is it only acceptable because the joke is that he is drugging her? I can not imagine what I would do if my spouse said something like that about me. It's violating demeaning and humiliating. A total lack of respect for me.
I showed the joke to my wife and she said that it was a good idea and she would try it on me.
Yeah that doesn't really matter when it is absolutely offensive to women. As evidenced by the response to this leak. Don't joke about abusing your wife. It's really just not funny. This has come up many times before in public discourse. It was one of the watershed moments of the feminist movement of the 70s. Specifically men making jokes about beating their wives.
The joke is in no way offensive to women. You insinuating that it is just because some overly-sensitive people (lots of which have a monetary incentive to do so) jump to call offense is what's actually offensive.
You don't have to find it funny. You also don't have to be so offended by it. It's clear you don't share the same humor. Maybe your spouse doesn't either. Neither of you I smarties to the guy.
It's not a big deal, as the other poster said, save your outrage for something that actually matters.
Misogyny does matter. Abusing women isn't funny. It's not a joke. It's a real, horrible thing that happens every single day around the world.
You're not going to change my mind on this. Anyone who would openly make such misogynistic comments should be met with outrage. As women, we face jokes about being abused since we are children. We are told that we are annoying and that it's perfectly normal for our husbands to hate us, to hit us, and that we are to subservient to subservient to him no matter what he does or says to us. We see women in media face further violence for speaking out about abuse, hated for talking about their experiences, and having their experiences dismissed by men across society.
It's just not funny. Plain and simple. It's gross, and it diminishes real suffering. The reaction to this "joke" is warranted. It's not acceptable.
Abusing women isn’t funny.
LOL. No one is saying abusing women is funny. We are saying a self-deprecating joke by a guy basically saying his wife is too good for him is not something worth getting so offended by.
It’s just not funny.
People laughed at the joke, and plenty of people here have told you they found it funny. So this is just patently untrue. It's just not funny to you. Which is okay. Humor is often about trying to figure out if you share values with the other person. You found out you don't share the same values with him. That's a good thing.
It’s gross, and it diminishes real suffering.
Honestly, I feel like you're diminishing real suffering by trying to paint this self-deprecating joke as an attack on women that is dismissing the suffering that many people, of both sexes, are victims of. I'll save my outrage for actual abuse, when you get outraged by every little perceived slight, you're feeding into the outrage fatigue and probably making people less receptive to actual acts that we should be addressing.
It's like the boy who cried wolf. People are going to stop listening to you if you keep spreading outrage over a mildly distasteful joke.
Nah, just the like the jokes about beating your wife that were around in the 70s its just not funny. And I'm not the only woman outraged. The punchline is that he's drugging his wife. You're not gonna convince me otherwise on this, and again, I'm not the only one who sees this as wrong.
I dont give a fuck if people get tired of having misogyny called out. Don't be misogynistic lol pretty damn easy. You also act like this is the only thing that I speak out against, which is very funny to me. I call out misogyny and bigotry whenever I encounter it. Not going to change anytime soon, and whether you or anyone else doesn't want to hear it doesn't matter to me. Clearly, it tickled your feathers enough for you to suddenly continue the dialog after a week. So good, maybe next time before you make a joke about abusing a woman you'll consider it for an extra second. Maybe you'll notice the way all the women in the room react to your joke about abusing women. Maybe you won't give a shit. It's not really my problem either way. Joking about abusing your wife is gross, demeaning, and disrespectful to her. And the politician in question was rightfully called out for that.
I’m not the only one who sees this as wrong.
I get that people think it's wrong. You're the one denying what some people think (that it is funny) not me. This is a projection. And, again, I have zero interest in convincing you it's funny. The difference between you and I is that i realize people have different senses of humor, and you've made it abundantly clear that you don't find this funny.
I dont give a fuck if people get tired of having misogyny called out.
I read this as not being interested in actually solving the problem, but simply wanting to be able to virtue signal.
You also act like this is the only thing that I speak out against, which is very funny to me.
I do? How so?
Clearly, it tickled your feathers enough for you to suddenly continue the dialog after a week.
Must be something funky going on with the server, as from my perspective, I last responded a week ago, and then you just responded again this morning. Or is this another projection?
So good, maybe next time before you make a joke about abusing a woman you’ll consider it for an extra second.
Why are you making this about me? I've never made a joke about abusing women. I don't find it particularly funny. Although, I do have to say I found this guy making fun of himself to be funny, but I can absolutely see why the method of doing so is in bad taste.
Look, you and I want the same thing: to protect people from being abused (well, I hope so. You make it appear that you only care about women being abused as you make sure to only mention women being the victim). The issue is that you think my defense of this self-deprecation hurts that cause, I think your outrage over of the joke hurts the cause. The only one who has provided evidence here to back up their claim is me. Just keep that in mind. Is your goal to virtue signal or is your goal to minimize abuse and protect victims? If it's the latter, I suggest you might want to consider my point. If it's the former, go ahead and be offended as much as possible.
Who am I virtue signaling to right now? There's not one other person reading this thread. I don't care about whether or not you or anyone else perceive my actions or beliefs as virtuous. I am specifically condemning the usage of women's abuse as humor. I am a woman, I have been abused. All my friends have been abused. It's so fucking common that entire rooms of us can come together and bond over all the ways we have been sexually physically and emotionally abused by men. It's not a joke, it's not funny, it doesn't matter what you think about it.
I genuinely just got the reply from you this morning. I see that it says sent a week ago, but I only got notification of it this morning. Probably something server related.
In a discussion about the way men joke about abusing women, the abuse of men is not what is being discussed. Misogyny is an institution that starts as soon as girls are born. The way women are abused by men is unique and not equivalent to the abuse men suffer from other men and from women. There is a time and a place to discuss that abuse, and it should be talked about. That's not here. Misogyny deserves to be called out on its own.
I dont care about how you perceive the cause or what you perceive my cause to be. I am a marxist intersectional feminist, I am an anarchist. I will speak out against bigotry wherever it appears. And I do that, very frequently and across multiple spaces across the internet. Calling out bigotry is one step in making bigotry socially unacceptable. Letting bigotry exist in whatever form allows it to be normalized and accepted. Letting misogyny exist in any form, racism in any form, homophobia in any form, all works towards the normalization and tolerance of those ideas in society. In much the same way that spreading positive inclusive media works to normalize acceptance and compassion. I'm not going to tolerate minor acts of bigotry in some delusional attempt to appeal to bigots? If bigots are dissuaded from progressive causes on account of their own bigotry being called out, they would never have been allies to progressive causes anyway.
I'm just curious, how many abuse victims have you personally helped? How many women do you know who have been abused? Have you ever helped them in any material way? Have you been there for them when they needed you? I have. I've been a victim of abuse myself. Have you ever volunteered at women's shelters? Ever helped out at any organizations for women who are homeless or who have addictions?
It's not funny. It's not a matter of differing senses of humor. It's a matter of recognizing the seriousness of the subject and the way abusing women is normalized across society. The way men hurt us isn't a joke.
If the government has even the smallest modicum of dignity, he'll resign or be sacked. It's one thing to enjoy crass and offensive jokes, I certainly do, but there's a time and a place for such humour. I mean he's the Home Secretary for fucks sake! How in the world did he think that that kind of joke would go down well?
I've seen first hand the aftermath of someone's drink being spiked... It's not something I ever want to deal with again. Though I'll bet it was far worse for the unfortunate victim of it.
I mean he’s the Home Secretary for fucks sake! How in the world did he think that that kind of joke would go down well?
And this assumes it was a joke....if I were his wife, I'd be looking for a way to tell if I've been drugged or not.
He reportedly added that the secret to a long marriage was to ensure your spouse was “someone who is always mildly sedated so she can never realise there are better men out there.”
It 100% was a joke. Just a very inappropriate one.
Yeah,
There’s definitely a non-zero chance that he’s doing exactly that. Abusers frequently joke about abusing their partners; they see abuse largely as normal, and that’s why it’s okay to joke about it. If it plays poorly, everyone just thinks they have bad taste in jokes until the partner turns up dead.
Then it’s “we had no idea…”
It’s a glaring red flag, and it should be treated as such.
Holy shit, imagine thinking a self deprecating joke that basically implies his wife is too good for him is a huge red flag that he's an abuser and actually drugging his wife. Lol your arrogance and presumptuousness is extremely impressive.
HOLY SHIT... it's like you think jokes about abusing his spouse is actually funny.
It's not. People who make those jokes in public settings (or public-ish, I guess,) are more likely to be abusers. stop excusing it. Stop normalizing it.
you can be better than that.
No, I found a joke about a guy saying his wife is too good for him to be funny.
In fact, I think people who attempt to turn any off-colored joke into them being some terrible person who abuses their spouse to more likely be abusers themselves. As it goes, we often see the worst of ourselves in others. Stop projecting. Stop assuming everyone is as bad as you.
you can be better than that.
If you were his wife and you took that joke as a threat rather than a compliment, you'd be incredibly dumb.
"I drug my wife..."
Is a compliment? and speaking of dumb, i didn't say it was a threat- in the "I'm going to harm you..." sense. I said, if i were here, I'd go have them run a tox panel to see if he was really doing it. There are certain truths to humor, one of which is every joke has some element of truth to it... and the joke is fundamentally about abusing his spouse.
Is a compliment?
No. But you also took it out of context in a blatant attempt to misrepresent it. If it were actually so bad, you wouldn't feel the need to so grossly misrepresent it.
There are certain truths to humor,
Agreed. And in this case that truth could be that he thinks his wife is too good for him and he must go to great lengths to get her not to understand it.
the joke is fundamentally about abusing his spouse.
Actually, no, the joke was fundamentally about his spouse being too good for him.
So you don’t think drugging one’s wife…. Is spousal abuse.
Which was litteraly the joke. Drugging her. So she can’t escape.
Whose misrepresenting what, exactly?
Again, the joke is fundamentally about his wife being too good for him. If you won't even admit that, then what's the point of following your leading questions? You don't care about actually being reasonable, you care about justifying your outrage.
Go read the fucking article. here. I'll save you a click:
In case you're wondering. Rohypnol is commonly used as a date rape drug. And he's "joking" about dosing his wife "just a little bit" so she can't leave.
Do please explain how jokes that are literally about dosing one's partner with date rape drug so she can't leave you isn't spouse abuse. Also explain how I am being unreasonable here. Please, explain to me how I'm over-reacting and it's "just a joke".
According to the paper, Cleverly – a senior minister in Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s Conservative government – said that adding “a little bit of Rohypnol in her drink every night” was “not really illegal if it’s only a little bit.” He reportedly added that the secret to a long marriage was to ensure your spouse was “someone who is always mildly sedated so she can never realise there are better men out there.” His comments came on the same day that Cleverly vowed to strengthen British laws on the growing epidemic of drink spiking in the UK, according to the Mirror.
He should have been sacked when he described Stockton -- a place ravaged by 13 years of Tory austerity -- as a 'shithole' during a televised parliamentary session.
Not for calling Stockton a shithole (I love the place but it really is a bit rough), but for being the sort of politician that is so poor at their job that they say stuff like this in front of the public.
God's sake. I mean... At least he's apologising? I could imagine some of our recent lot doubling down on this and refusing to give in to wokeness blah blah blah...
But yeah. I'm really trying hard to be charitable cos it's Christmas and everything. That's not really pleasant stuff to hear from the guy who is in charge of the Police (over 1,100 under investigation for sexual assault or domestic violence atm)
OH HO HO HAH HAH!!! RAPE JOKES EH WOT?!?
SO TERRIBLY WITTY EH OLD CHAP?!?
MARVELLOUS I SAY, MARVELLOUS!!!
He didn't make a joke about raping his wife, it was a self deprecating joke about making it so his wife wouldn't realize there are better men out there.
But good on you for being so offended by something that didn't even happen. Marvelous, I say, marvelous.
So, Lemmings only go with titles, instead of reading the article, like redditors? Smh my head
According to MBFC, CNN has bias by omission and consistently fails fact checks. Not sure why this story is allowed.
What exactly is wrong with the cnn story?
Here’s a Reuters link: https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uks-cleverly-apologises-joke-about-spiking-wifes-drink-2023-12-24/
Basically nothing is wrong. Some mods are inconsistent about which stories they choose to delete. They have been treating MBFC like the Bible of the Land, as in they also are selective about it but expect the rest of us to comply.
Notice that I said SOME. I think the mods are doing a fine job but I believe they should reconsider MBFC.
From this distance, I only hear about this sort of comment when they apologize for it. Is it really appropriate to broadcast apologies much louder than the thing you're apologizing for?
He made a joke in poor taste about his own wife. Not like he advocated raping strangers. Not like he advocated raping his own wife, it was a poor joke. It was meant in a self-deprecating manor.
Jesus people, let a bad joke go. I'm quite sure he hates himself for it and is quite regretful. Or shall we beat his ass more?
When conservatives talk "cancel culture", this is the kinda thing they point to. Don't feed them ammo.
[I like to defend Spousal Abuse, and think we should just let it go]
There. fixed that for you. It's a non-zero chance that it really was "just a joke", and even if it was, jokes about abusing your spouse... is never appropriate. Would you find "The secret to a long marriage, I beat my wife so she's too scared to leave" funny? I doubt it. Because it's downright awful.
The fact that he thinks it's okay to joke about this- to women- in a nominally public, government function... makes me wonder he does in private.
He's a Tory. I very much doubt he feels bad about the joke, more likely just feels bad that he got caught. Last month in parliament if you believe his accuser he called a constituency a shit hole and if you believe his defence he called a fellow MP a shit hole.
quite sure he hates himself for it and is quite regretful.
He's a Tory politician. He wouldn't hate himself for selling his mom for an extra year of shitting on poor people and immigrants. He definitely doesn't hate himself for this.
He hates that he was called out for it, but that's it.
Plenty of people have been spiked by a partner in exactly this way. It's not a funny joke. Someone making this kind of joke and thinking it's acceptable is shitty. Someone who's a leading politician, in a job responsible for crime and justice, at a political function in a government venue, telling this joke to a group of women... The unacceptable is off the charts there. I seriously worry about someone with that lack of judgement and humanity being in a job like that. Criticising and holding people in power to account for their actions is not 'cancel culture '.
