I don't like this meme. Not because of the politics involved or anything, it just doesn't make sense.
I know it's supposed to be a subversion of "They're the same picture", but now the conversation doesn't work anymore.
Corporate wants you to find the difference between the two pictures, not just confirm that they are indeed different. They know that.
I got banned for something similar earlier today. I think a bad mod is having a really bad day here.
FOURTEEN days ban for stating the facts that over 70% of the Israeli people want the Netanyahu government gone and that more than half of the people in Gaza weren't even BORN the last time there was an election, let alone old enough to vote. No warning, didn't even let me know about it. I had to check the modlog to find out what was going on.
I guess nobody's gonna read this, though, unless the appeal I sent to a mod worked..
Edit: yay, seems it did! Weird that the reversal isn't showing up in the modlog, though..
Even appealing to basic reason regarding international conflicts got me banned from World News. Pretty sure I can only talk on World now. Didn't care enough to check the mod logs lol.
Of the two times I've been banned (the first one was legitimate but overly harsh: 3 day ban for breaking the "be excellent to each other" rule in Technology by coming in WAY too hot on someone who might have just been honestly ignorant rather than anything malicious), neither carried any warning or message, so I had to check the modlog to find out why my comments were missing and I was getting an error message 🤷
Especially on the Internet, try to remember Hanlon's Razor. Never attribute to malice that which can be explained through laziness or ignorance.
I get what you're saying, but oftentimes said laziness and ignorance leads to malicious actors not being held accountable, which in turn leads to more abuses. In the specific case, it was about new espionage capabilities for cops.
The 70% of the Israeli people want Netanyahu gone has a big asterisk to it that people either like to leave behind or don't know better.
Netanyahu has been involved in a lot of controversies prior to this conflict, he is accused of (last I checked) 4 corruption cases that are pending trial, the government he is leading is known for setting up jobs for their friends & family and the so-called "judicial reform" he is trying to push is just an attempt to turn the country into an authoritarian state. Many accuse him that because of the "judicial reform" Israel was caught with their pants down, because a lot of reservists and active military men said they will refuse to accept the call of duty unless it stops.
In Israeli politics security is more important than economy and schools, it is the primary topic that concerns people before they choose who to vote for, and are in some cases willing to let things like corruption slide as long as the security is held in high standard. The truth is, a lot of Israelis support Netanyahu's security policies. A lot of Israelis will only back a peace deal if the status quo remains (meaning, no land swaps, everything remains in the post 1967 borders) which is why the IDF gets full support for their actions in Gaza from Israel's citizens. Sad to say but even once Netanyahu is gone, whoever is going to replace him will likely not change anything when it comes to the treatment of the Gaza Strip or the West Bank or perhaps make it even worse. Ever since the second intifida the public opinion has been that there cannot be peace with the Palestinians and any attempt to do so will only make things worse.
In Israeli politics security is more important
Which is a big part of the reason for declining popularity of the Netanyahu government.
Apart from many Israelis being morally opposed to the genocidal tactics of the government, more and more are seeing through the propaganda and realising that those tactics are actually making Israeli much LESS secure than an approach respecting international law and basic human decency would.
the IDF gets full support for their actions in Gaza from Israel's citizens
Citation needed.
Again, Netanyahu's popularity is declining because he failed to do the one thing he had promised to do right. Whoever comes after him will have the same policy when it comes to dealing with occupied territories, there will be no attempts at peace because the public doesn't support a peace effort.
Full may have been an overstatement, perhaps the word "majority" would fit better.
Regardless, here are some sources:
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/21/1207138183/israel-gaza-hamas-idf-invasion-troops-supplies
Hebrew source, will require translation
https://www.mako.co.il/finances-news/Article-19ec4d49c931b81027.htm
I was talking about Israel v. Palestine, the countries surrounding haven't gave Israel any trouble for a long time.
Because israel got fucked in Lebanon by Hezbollah and had to retreat which gave the Lebanese no reason to fight.
Strange how people just stop attacking once you stop stealing their land right.
PLO is also Palestine.
Israel has no problem figuring out how to make peace, as long as they have a willing partner. They have given up more land in peaceful transfers for the sake of peace than the entire current area of Israel and Palestine combined
They have given up more land in peaceful transfers for the sake of peace than the entire current area of Israel and Palestine combined
That's highly misleading at best. The only time Israel ever ceded territory was giving the Sinai peninsula back to Egypt, which had little to nothing to do with Palestine.
Besides, they're continuing to build illegal settlements in the West Bank as a matter of official policy, with the explicitly stated goal of making the Palestinian communities there more and more fractured until all of it is de facto Israel.
This in the area controlled by a legitimate government that does NOT keep attacking Israel.
Oh and BTW, they keep oppressing peaceful farmers there who have done nothing wrong.
That’s probably exactly what happened.
Anyway, I’m glad you reposted. This is a good point that people need to remember.
Reddit is just another Israeli propaganda hole pretending to be objective and fair. All those stereotypes of the "Jews are controlling the media" sure are not being dismissed with their handling of the latest crisis information coming out. At this point I give zero fucks for Israel or funding them anything, it's not good seeing US arms destroying innocents, and that includes our shitty foreign policy on other nations. We need to stop acting like petulant angry chimps.
“Jews are controlling the media”
"The US bourgeoisie control the anglophone media and Israel is their aircraft carrier in the middle east"
I hate how much people are able to channel antizionism into antisemitism, and how Israel actively encourages it.
I think because it suggests that there is such thing as Israeli Ethnostate. There is Israel, in which you have about 25% Arab citizens. Far from being ethnostate, the Arab citizens enjoy equal rights and protections from the state.
Israel passed a controversial new “nation-state law” last week that’s sparking both celebration and fierce debate over the very nature of Israel itself.
The law does three big things:
It states that “the right to exercise national self-determination” in Israel is “unique to the Jewish people."
It establishes Hebrew as Israel’s official language, and downgrades Arabic — a language widely spoken by Arab Israelis — to a “special status.”
It establishes “Jewish settlement as a national value” and mandates that the state “will labor to encourage and promote its establishment and development.”
None of those undermines any rights of Arab Israelis, even though the promotion of the settlements is quite problematic, but for different reasons.
You claimed they have equal rights.
It states that “the right to exercise national self-determination” in Israel is “unique to the Jewish people.”
Clearly, there's a right that's reserved to one ethnicity only.
That only means things like Hebrew being state language and recognition of national heritage history. Like French language and history in France. I do not hear anything implemented from that time that violate what I said.
Far from being ethnostate, the Arab citizens enjoy equal rights and protections from the state.
Are you blatantly lying or are you just incredibly misinformed?
They're right, there's a lot of Arab citizens in Israel proper who live normal lives.
It's the Arab population in occupied Gaza and West Bank that do not have equal citizenship protections.
I would like people making this difference with every nation and not just the one or two sainted ones.
Replace "Israeli Ethnostate" and "Jewish People" with "Palestinian Ethnostate" and "Palestinian People." If you can't do that without it sounding like hate speech, then your post is antisemitic.
Just weird how Japan, Korea, France, Sweden, Ethiopia, China, Turkey, India, Russia, Ukraine, Germany, Denmark, South Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Nigeria, Rwanda, Morocco, Palestine, Italy, Greece, Syria, Lebanon, Austria, Croatia, Moldova, Pakistan, Nepal, India, Thailand, Yemen, Kuwait, Kazakhstan, Laos, Vietnam, Ireland, Armenia, Serbia, Uganda, etc....
...are all states created as a homeland for a particular ethnic group, yet only one ethnic group is criticized for it. 🤔
Germany is 40 countrys in 16 trenchcoats and contains even in its today borders more than just one ethnic group.
Also Russia??
INDIA????
Dude...
Israel is just as ethnically diverse as those you've listed. Druze, Arabs, Armenians, Bedouins, Samaritans, Turks, etc. in a nation of less than 10 million.
Yet only one ethnic group is represented in government and holds all legislative power and uses it to create a system of Apartheid
So Israel is an "apartheid state" except that minorities have full rights of citizenship, vote, serve the government, hold positions of leadership in government, academia, business and medicine. But minority parties, representing a minority population, don't have more power? Are you even vaguely aware of how democracy works? And you think I'm the one being disingenuous?
Maybe inform yourself before you speak on the topic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_apartheid
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/
LMAO what a horrible take, not even one of those countries originated in a similar way to Israel 💀
Even if you take his statement as true it’s essentially arguing that historically genocides have happened and therefore Israel should get free rein to do one.
Its the exact same as when we talk about Police brutality and chuds say, 'what about black on black crime'
Even if that argument was viable, I would argue Israel's genocide starting less than a century ago makes it much more imperative to act against it.
Palestinians taking their land back is justice after a century of genocide, not genocide.
only one ethnic group is criticized for it
China had received international condemnation for the treatment of Uyghurs (recently) and other groups (historically). Rwanda's treatment of minorities was pretty big news a while back. I don't think you'd need to look too far for coverage on the treatment of recent immigrants in the EU.
China had received international condemnation for the treatment of Uyghurs
Most Muslim countries do not condemn it. Most countries that are cool with bombing muslim countries condemn it. Curious.
He says it's ok to torture Muslims because other Muslims also torture Muslims and are OK with it or don't care, so we should all be OK with it as well, or at the very least not care about them. Perfectly sound logic, you see.
No, what he’s saying is almost every Muslim country has sent investigators to China, and not one has found evidence of torture or abuse.
My bad, I’m terrible about that. Thanks for politely calling me out, it reinforces in me the need to not assume gender online.
Not a man, stop assuming everyone on the internet is a man.
The Muslim countries who send delegations claim there isn't a genocide. The people who historically have used Muslim extremism to destabilize countries and then bomb the shit out of their local population leading to hundreds of thousands or millions of casualties still claim that China's anti-extremism program was genocide.
The Muslim countries who send delegations claim there isn't a genocide. The people who historically have used Muslim extremism to destabilize countries and then bomb the shit out of their local population leading to hundreds of thousands or millions of casualties still claim that China's anti-extremism program was genocide.
Wait, its ok to torture them because some people who are in the same religion as them are ok with it?
The Muslim countries who send delegations claim there isn't a genocide. The people who historically have used Muslim extremism to destabilize countries and then bomb the shit out of their local population leading to hundreds of thousands or millions of casualties still claim that China's anti-extremism program was genocide.
Wow, this definitely is the most insane claim I have seen in the last 3 months at least.
Except none of the examples you've listed above are ethnic states. Russia, China, Turkey and India are multi-ethnic societies. Japan, Korea, France ,Sweden, have a ethno-linguistic bias, but it is still supportive of pluralistic societies. Pakistan is a synthetic ethnoreligious-state created on the basis of Islam, but ethno-linguistic sentiments are still strong withing Balochi, Pathans, Afghani, Sindhi, Punjabi and other minority groups living there.
Israel is also a pluralistic society, in which all citizens (a quarter of which are not Jewish) are guaranteed complete equal rights under the law. There are multiple Arab parties in the parliament (Knesset).
Can you explain why France has a greater number of Arabic speakers than Israel but no Arabic language schools, while Israel has hundreds of state funded Arabic language schools that parents can choose to send their kids?
I've got a book about the history of trains, but I've not seen anything about this. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?
That's odd! My book about the history of Moldovan pastries doesn't mention anything of the kind either!
Well then it's obvious that certain history book authors are, in fact, in on this MASSIVE conspiracy of disinformation and misinformation. It's the one thing that makes sense!!
Im not your friend guy, and nah the onus is on you to give me a source that says every state you listed is an ethnostate, not just say, 'rEaD a hIsToRy bOoK'
Well you edited your comment that said we were friends, now I have to edit mine.
What's your source for the original claim that Israel is an ethnostate?
Israel passed a controversial new “nation-state law” last week that’s sparking both celebration and fierce debate over the very nature of Israel itself.
The law does three big things:
It states that “the right to exercise national self-determination” in Israel is “unique to the Jewish people.”
It establishes Hebrew as Israel’s official language, and downgrades Arabic — a language widely spoken by Arab Israelis — to a “special status.”
It establishes “Jewish settlement as a national value” and mandates that the state “will labor to encourage and promote its establishment and development.”
Really, foreign powers went into Japan, colonized it, held it for decades, and then gave it to a group of people who aren’t from there and forced 700,000 indigenous Japanese to leave their country and live in a concentration camp?
As a student of history, how many "decades" was Palestine under rule by a foreign power before 1948? What date were the people of Palestine first conquered?
The difference I've seen is that people generally seem to be able to call out the crimes or bad behaviour of any of these governments without being called 'racist to _____ ethnic group'. It has to go both ways, people need to stop blaming the crimes of Israeli governing party on the Jewish people as a whole, AND supporters of the that party's actions need to stop labelling any criticism of them as antisemitic.
First of all, that's not true for most of them.
Secondly and much more importantly, with the possible exception of a handful, those countries don't have apartheid style laws enforcing ethnic cleansing and systemic oppression, discrimination and displacement.
I said the POSSIBLE exception because I'm admittedly not very knowledgeable about the laws of some of them.
I DO know that Israel is the only "western democracy" that's actually a South African Apartheid style ethnostate, is the point.
Edit: for those who might think I'm exaggerating or otherwise being unfair, I'd say that Desmond Tutu is a pretty good source for what is and isn't like the Apartheid he suffered under.
ITT people queueing up to justify antisemitism.
Jews have been the scapegoats of the world's problems for thousands of years. All of these people taking their sanctimonious "pro-Palestinian / anti-Zionist" stances are literally descendants of antisemitic ideology which is deeply rooted in Christianity, Islam and European politics.
They will say Israel stole land. But ignore how many other countries exist because of thousands of years of violent conflict. Can we talk about ethnic cleansing not only during, but after WWII where people of German ancestry even if they had no blood on their hands, were raped, massacred and driven out of certain countries and blanket pardens were given so "they weren't war crimes." Yet everyone accepts these countries and their current ethnic makeup.
I stand by my position which is that in our current global political system, the ability to occupy and defend land is the determining factor of sovereignty and almost all of us benefit directly from past atrocities. And that has been the case throughout history.
If we want a better world, and I'm all for that, we have to begin with honesty and self-reflection. Piling on one country/group is a distraction and won't solve anything.
Lol, so not supporting genocide is now antisemitism. Other people got to commit genocide so Israel should too. All while acting like Israel is getting piled on for no reason other than being Jewish, as if no one's criticized Russia or China or South Africa for the same thing.
That's some evil manipulative fucking shit right there.
Jewish people aren't an ethnic group any more than Christians, Muslims, Buddhists etc.
Judaism is simply a religion.
Edit: Well TIL. Apologies, I didn't mean to appear ignorant. Thank you to the people who have pointed out my misunderstanding. I will be reading more about this and try to get a better grasp on this topic.
You are 100% wrong. The word "Jewish" has a dual meaning and you're ignoring the more relevant one. Try consulting a dictionary sometime. Or talk to a Jew about what it means to be Jewish.
False.
Here's some education for you, buddy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions
Judaism is a religion, yes.
Jewish people comprise of a few ethnic groups.
Jewish people also comprise a cultural group, which overlaps with Judaism the religion.
We absolutely are. Defining Judaism as a religion alone is ignorant and christocentric.
Judaism has always been a people of a singular national identity, defined by common origin, language, history, sense of identity, culture, folklore, music, clothing, cuisine, etc.
Judaism has always been a people of a singular national identity
No. National identity is a relatively modern idea for any group of people. Being Jewish is being part of a culture, not a nation.
The person you're responding to is an ass but you're swinging too far in the opposite direction.
In order to be Jewish your mother needs to be Jewish. Converted Jews are widely shunned by the Jewish community.
Anyone can convert to those other religions without needing a certain ethnicity.
