they're probably patching a security flaw, because we live in the future now and it is perfectly normal for a simple clock to have backdoors that can read your bank accounts
"My dishwasher is on the internet!" - "Why is on the internet?" - "To download software updates!" - "Why does it need software updates?" - "To fix security vulnerabilities!" - "Why would it have security vulnerabilities?" -"Because it's on the internet!"
I never connected my refrigerator to the internet. Why the fuck would I need Bixby on my refrigerator? I don't even use the voice assistant on my phone.
Yeah, I’m absurdly suspicious of pretty much everything connected to the internet these days. I’m suspicious of any cameras, of people randomly happening to take a picture with me in the background. I’m suspicious of talking out loud around my phone…the future sucks.
Although, thankfully the pandemic has given me a seemingly never-ending excuse to wear something over my face at all times.
haha, same, every time someone asks me for a pic i have to choose between refusing by making something up (bad hair etc), going with the privacy infodump, or accepting and just regretting it for my whole life
Yeah, I’m absurdly suspicious of pretty much everything connected to the internet these days. I’m suspicious of any cameras, of people randomly happening to take a picture with me in the background. I’m suspicious of talking out loud around my phone…the future sucks.
Although, thankfully the pandemic has given me a seemingly never-ending excuse to wear something over my face at all times.
And here we have why I have not connected my smart dishwasher to the Internet. Those 2 extra wash cycles don't seem worth it. Especially considering I only ever use the most powerful sounding wash cycle.
I get that, I have a smart oven, washer, dryer and dishwasher. All connected to the internet (private guest network just in case), and they all send updates to one Telegram group chat using IFTTT. It's pretty convenient to get updates when a device is done.
The only two things that I like about smart appliances:
- remote preheat for the oven (ready to pop the frozen pizza in right when I walk in the door)
- cycle end notification for the washer (when I'm in the basement I can't hear the sound to know when to move the clothes to the dryer)
I can't imagine needing a notification on the dishwasher (I'm never wanting for it to finish to do something else) or refrigerator (just what even would it do).
I guess the smart control of the hvac is nice (turn it on when I'm on my way back from vacation so the temperature is perfect when I get home), but does that count as an appliance?
I love that "door open" warning of my fridge, and I also like that I get a notification when the fridge unexpectedly disconnects from the network (which usually means that the power has gone out, so I can go and check before all my food has died).
Also, the notifications when then laundry machine finishes are handy (so I can unload it and avoid smelly clothes).
BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP
"Sounds like I left the fridge open."
Seriously, I can hear that beep anywhere in the house.
- remote preheat for the oven (ready to pop the frozen pizza in right when I walk in the door)
Most ovens these days have a sort of time delay feature so you can set it to turn on X hours from now. Though I will admit it's more convenient not to have to estimate what time you're gonna be home at. Still, there are definitely alternatives to using an internet-connected over.
- cycle end notification for the washer (when I'm in the basement I can't hear the sound to know when to move the clothes to the dryer)
I already know my washing machine takes almost exactly 30 minutes to finish after I turn on the water. I just set a timer on my phone for that amount of time.
The delayed start requires planning ahead. I'm...not great at that.
As for the laundry cycles, my washer is variable on time depending on load size or dirt level or something. It's rarely done by the time it estimates at the start.
lol yep. If only. My washer adjusts the cycle time based on...well honestly I don't know what. Load size? Dirtiness? So if it starts the cycle and says it'll be an hour, it could be 55 minutes or it could be 85 minutes. There's just no way to be certain. Gets everything clean, though.
Cool, but that's only half the truth, 'cause how do you turn off your fridge, microwave stuff etc. when you're away from home then?? /s
We once invented multiple protocols, because doing everything over the same protocol is obviously a bad idea...
I could see a connected dishwasher being useful if all water using apps (liances, not lications) could coordinate with the water softener to determine if it needs to cycle before they start (and to automatically start once the soft water is ready).
Is that even a thing?
The fuck a smart dishwasher gonna do, play Mozart while my dishes get smashed around inside then receive a text message later saying "Oi it's me ur dishwasher I just finished the dishes" while it plays Mozart again but at max volume until you waddle your fatass over and press the 'shut the fuck up' button?
Don't forget lightbulbs.
https://support.sengled.com/hc/article_attachments/360041314774/mceclip3.png
The companies BUILD IN backdoors so that they can steal your data.
But because the backdoor is built in, they have to constantly monitor and update the security around it so that "bad guys" (they don't think they are the bad guys) don't get in.
They only do security updates to prevent liability iirc.
The whole thing stinks.
Note: I'm not a software developer just an outraged bystander with tech hobbies and techy friends, it's possible this isn't true.
No need for backdoors when the front door is perfectly legal. The need to monitor for bad actors is still correct, though; mostly because they skimp on development costs and penetration testing. Like they say, "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence." Or in this case, slashing budgets.
I hate Hanlon's Razor with a passion. It's just a way to introduce plausible deniability for cases that do involve malice. Not that this stuff necessarily is malicious, I just think it's dumb to rule out maliciousness any time it could be incompetence.
If I were to rewrite Hanlon's Razor today, I would update it as so: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence or indifference." Because yes, it does introduce plausible deniability; but most of the most harmful things in our modern world aren't malice, but simply big companies caring less about you than about their own precious profits, or politicians caring less about their constituents than about their kickbacks and campaigns.
But admittedly, the word "adequately" does do a lot of heavy lifting in the original and in my update, because I'd counter your (quite reasonable) objection with the corollary that if malice is evident, incompetence is no longer an adequate explanation.
In general, though, I've had simply too much experience in this world to believe that there's a grand conspiratorial plan behind anything awful people do these days.
Good comment, I can agree with it. Though to address your last paragraph, I wasn't trying to say that it's usually maliciousness or best to assume it, I just don't think it should be summarily dismissed.
I'd also say that there's not much functional difference between a pattern of malice, incompetence, or indifference.
Totally true. Though you might address the various patterns differently (malice = legal action, incompetence = mandated education, indifference = financial penalty), the results of the patterns are often the same.
What would the "front door" even be in this case? What comes to my mind is the corresponding app on your phone, but that doesn't really make sense in this context.
In this case, the "front door" would just be not hiding it. Normal, un-hidden APIs. A back door is usually something that the developer includes without informing the user, but they don't need to be surreptitious; there's no legal reason to pretend that they're not collecting the data, and unless you've built your brand on privacy and security, there's no business reason to do so either in the current cultural climate.
And given that the appliance needs to communicate with the app on your phone while you're not home in the first place, there probably isn't even a separate tracking API vs. data just being harvested as part of normal operations. So "back door" doesn't really fit. "Broken by design" or "spyware" would be more apt, I think.
Still, I'm really not a fan of calling any spying/data harvesting a "front door" -- IIRC, the term was coined by an FBI head pushing for back doors in our phones so the FBI could scan our messages. But he called it a "front door" as a way to dodge the reasons why building back doors in our security software is a terrible idea.
It's just another step in the terrible trend of "let's pretend that this horrible idea is ok if we just rename it" :(
It’s difficult to monetise data if you source it illegally (except in China maybe). Nobody reads the ToS anyway so it’s not like you need a backdoor.
I have been with a few companies as an engineer, and can at least confirm that you are right from my experience. Nobody really needs a backdoor to get massive amounts of data. The ToS for most software makes it so they can already do whatever they want with it. It's pretty easy to get a lot of data just by having people use their services normally.
My biggest question to this type of thing is, what data? Why is it you're all so concerned about a tech company knowing how you use their services or what you're spending your money on?
The only ones I'm worried about doing that are foreign owned companies that operate in realms where my personal data could be actively harmful. I don't use TikTok because our only real military adversary is using it to assemble Petabytes worth of data on Western populations which they can turn into cyberware via reactionary propaganda.
Know what I don't care about? Doordash knowing what I'm more likely to spend my money on. Microsoft trying to sell me an Office365 subscription.
"Outraged bystander" yeah, clearly. Most of you are just parrots who follow the FOSS crowd but don't know enough to actually vet their information. You think they're all these full stack programmers who have deep insights but most of them are just paranoid hobbyists who think any shred of data on their spending habits = the end of the free world. As if Wingstop knowing your propensity of eating dry rub versus buffalo is worth anything at all beyond trying to sell you a product.
So what kind of parrot are you? It's not unusual to want to restrict who can snoop on you, even for trivial information. I've worked on embedded software - what gets logged and reported can get downright obnoxious.
I'm not sure if it's getting better, but I'm seeing less of it these days. It could just be that I'm working for better companies though.
The more a company knows about you, the more money they can make out of you. For example, cab companies have been caught increasing prices for customers whose phone batteries were dying.
Unless you are a journalist, high-ranking civil servant or military officer, foreign governments aren't usually a huge threat. You are most likely not worth their time, and (apart from maybe the US) it's not like they can actually do anything to you.
I didn't say that me as an individual was worth the time of a foreign government, because I'm not talking about one off events like someone wanting information on me specifically.
I'm talking about the attempt by foreign nationals to undermine our entire society by preying on social media and misinformation. The kind of shit thats been affecting people on Facebook for years now and thats being used to affect the Tiktok algorithm as well.
Fair point. But if a foreign government can use Facebook / TikTok data to undermine society, can't big companies or other interest groups do the same? More importantly, can't Facebook or TikTok do the same? At least governments have checks and balances, and are at least theoretically accountable to their people. Companies can do whatever they like.
Companies don't need to follow laws? Last time I checked the reason they can "do whatever they want" is the same as the government's. Because no one ever fucking holds their feet to a fire. In theory both entities are held to standards, in reality neither are.
Companies don't need to follow laws?
Many do follow the law, but have the law written to their convenience. Why bother stealing data when you can get it for free from people who don't know any better?
The only ones I’m worried about doing that are foreign owned companies that operate in realms where my personal data could be actively harmful.
Later on when the "good guys" have a change in leadership to someone who's just a bit more ruthlessly profit-driven, they already have all your data.
My Wingstop orders? Sure. Once again, WHO FUCKING CARES. I don't use social media for anything but sharing memes. I don't post, I have the absolute bare minimum required information, and my account usually isn't even my real name.
Even if the US government went full on USSR tomorrow, the data they have on me isn't the type to be useful to them because my traditional social media usage is so damn low. Tiktok wasn't the only example, it's just the one with the most obvious political implication for us right now.
If I had a reason to hide my data (like in your hypothetical) then I could do it at the drop of a hat by switching fully to Linux which I already use. I have emails with three different providers only one of which is Google, and I don't federate anything critical.
You guys are just so concerned about the stupidest information that can't even be used against you unless it's for selling you a product.
the data they have on me isn’t the type to be useful to them
do you have a phone?
do you have a car that was manufactured after 2015?
does your ISP know your real name?
do you have a bank account?
I guarantee you there's already more of your data out there than you're comfortable with.
Outside of the car (mines a 90's model) none of that is even remotely avoidable even if you went totally FOSS. Your ISP still needs your info and you'll still use some kind of bank or credit union.
none of that is remotely avoidable
is exactly the point I was trying to make to the guy who was like "I just use Linux and put a fake name on my GrubHub orders"
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Because it can be used against you in one way or another. You never know were the data end up at. It could leak or the government force them to give the data and lower your score in any system.
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That is the point, we dont know what system they will come up with in the future. Lets build a social score system that we use to tax you economical and take past data into account. Hint China.
Megaman Battle Network was prophetic. You're just living daily life and then a terrorist kills your child by hacking the AC.
They are just getting you ready for Time 2.
Its faster and greener, with advertisements tailored to your interests!
Trying to get Windows 11 to show seconds.
Click the clock on the taskbar, which has worked as far as I remember, maybe even before Windows 95. Notifications and calendar pop up but no seconds.
Search “seconds” in settings. Apparently you can only have them shown on the taskbar permanently (with implied distraction and CPU usage).
Look in time settings. No seconds, either.
Open the Clock app. The update takes a minute. No seconds there, either.
Search the internet. Apparently this is a function Microsoft disabled in Windows 11 but can be restored with Explorer Patcher, along with the option to set taskbar transparency via Classic Shell (so that you can watch the status in another window while others are maximized).
Don't have time for that, install Linux instead
(I’m not even kodding. The only place where a vanilla Windows 11 installation will show seconds in GUI is a very obscure page deep in the unintuitive jungle of settings. Interesting that a $3 watch does something a Windows computer with a million times more transistors doesn't.)
Welcome to Clock 2.0, the new time and reminder experience from Microsoft! Powered by Bing AI and Microsoft OneDrive.
- Sync your time zones, alarms, and reminders to all your devices via Microsoft OneDrive
- Get suggested wake-up times powered by Bing AI and your calendar!
- Use of Clock is governed by the Microsoft Cloud Connected Experiences Privacy Policy (click here to view).
- Click I Agree to start your use of Microsoft Clock!
and for all this, your alarm reminders become yet another datapoint for personalized ads, your phone alarm to wake you up then plays at full blast through the living room computer and wakes everybody else up, and you agreed to a 750kb privacy policy that displays in a 2"x3" window with 500 pages to scroll through.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Estimated update time is being updated please wait [Estimated update time is being updated please wait[Estimated update time is being updated please wait…] minutes] minutes
Plus Linux could update it in the background while the app is running. There's no reason windows can't do these things, and yet, it can't.
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It can't, really. What Linux will do (and Windows won't) is delete old files and replace them with new ones while they are still in use. But this has two problems.
- It can lead to stability issues. See e.g. Firefox, which refuses to open new tabs and can't shut down cleanly if you update using the package manager while the browser is running. If you replace a binary executable in use and it later tries to load a shared library dynamically, it will get an unexpected version of that shared library which can potentially lead to memory corruption. Similar problem if the program tries fork+exec itself to create more instances (like Firefox and Chrome do).
- It won't actually update the running process in memory, so even if you install security fixes your system will still be vulnerable. To be safe after e.g. fixes to libc you really need to reboot your system, but most distributions hide this fact from the user.
Windows could certainly opt for a similar solution as Linux. They just chose a stricter and more reliable model for file locking, for good or bad. For what it's worth I personally prefer the Linux model, but that's because I know to reboot my system after updating it. I don't trust my dad to take that social responsibility so he needs to be forced.
Outside of the kennel a reboot is not necessary you just restart the app/service it’s really not rocket science.
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Updating a shared library requires an understanding of which services (and interactive programs) use that shared library. There's a lot of room for mistakes. So while restarting specific services can be worth it for a high-availability server, for a desktop PC I find it easier and less error-prone to just restart the machine. If you are really keen to avoid going into POST you can use kexec.
There's a configuration file you can edit to prevent that. The Flatpak configures this automatically for you.
Linux distros usually raises a reboot required flag. But thats usually to complete some kernel or system update. Windows just go ahead and reboot on update ruining the workflow.
When you get the message to reboot ignore it and do your work. Then shutdown after doing it. Turn on when you need it the next time. And its all well
“updates were installed, you should reboot”.
But I think you can ignore it, the updates just will not take effect until you reboot.
I work at night and Windows loves to push Windows Updates at night regardless of my normal work schedule.
Take a trip to the bathroom or just don't move the mouse for a few minutes and Windows will reboot (fuck whatever you had running) and spent an hour or two installing an update (fuck the rest of your night)
Linux doesn't ever try to force itself on you like that, it's a respectable OS
"DAE too many Linux posts?! BRB need to reboot windows for the 30th time today."
That's a strawman argument, I can't remember the last time I had to reboot Windows, and the last few updates have only taken a few minutes. They also install on shutdown most of the time.
I use Windows on both my work and home PC. I had to reboot both twice today. I'll probably be switching my home PC to Linux over the holiday weekend.
That would be for the best, cause it seems you aren't really capable of using Windows properly
Well, if Windows is that difficult to use, I don't know why you're fighting so hard for it.
It isn't, unless you start digging under the hood without prior knowledge about the systems.
Windows is a lot more open than Linuxians give it credit. Those settings are just a bit more hidden to be user friendly.
It's open-ish, but modern Windows just doesn't feel like it's my OS anymore. It feels like I'm just borrowing it from Microsoft, and I'm really tired of core functionality being SaaS.
I have never had problems with windows updates nor has it never rebooted on me. Dunno what the hate is for, at least windows works without knowing 79 different programming languages and having to scour through git repos from 2002 for drivers just to get a driver compiled for your headset (it wont compile because it requires a bingbong-SDK mainted by a guy from turkey who refuses to update it from 1.95v2 to more recent 1.99-6 which is incompatible with your dial-up modem)
Do you ever feel tired of having to type 55 lines of commands into the console just to open Wine to actually use your pc?
Not really because I just use the stuff. I only use the command line for very basic stuff, usually.
Linux is really nowhere near as hard as you're making it out to be, 99% of the time.
Yeah, there are times when you run into edge cases that are frustrating. Although I've had that with windows once in awhile.
I've used Mint for about 10y then ran into a situation where AMD gfx card was too new for the kernel and switched to a Fedora based distro. Which is kind of outrageous to have to do that. But that's the first time in a decade.
I try to stick to hardware that is fairly mainstream or which implements mainstream standards.
It helps a lot if you're comfortable with bash. Otherwise if you run into issues and some website gives you a bunch of commands they look like line noise.
I mean, *nix is kind of arcane. But once you know about command format, pipes, redirects, and maybe a couple dozen commands, it gets a lot better.
I learned all this stuff back in the late 80s so it is second nature to me. But it was a learning curve back then. But then, so is powershell or dos.
Linux isn't hard, I just have 30 years experience and know my way around a console.
Linux is really nowhere near as hard as you're making it out to be, 99% of the time.
The general populace are nowhere near at competent as you're making them out to be, 99% of the time.
3% desktop marketshare. Linux won't be seen as a viable solution until it is capable of handling an idiot half as well as Windows.
I don't disagree with the bit about general users... but I don't know that Windows handles idiots all that much better, based on how it's handled me (an idiot).
Sometimes issues come up in an OS which require some intensive searching or a help desk (H4B grrr). Although I haven't had to reinstall Win anytime in the last like 15 years or more.
I think software availability plays significantly in terms of viability of Linux for desktop.
Windows is still a middle ground of functionality and user safety. Better for corporate tasks than a Mac, better for gaming than both, and benefits from massive marketshare making their systems better knows though osmosis, superusers still know their way around windows as well as any knows theirs around Linux.
Developers aren't going to go after a 3% desktop market share of Linux users so most software development is still Windows and .net based in the corpo and developer spaces.
Linux as a desktop OS lacks both usability and compatability still. I don't have to emulate shit in windows to do anything. No wine, no Proton, nothing. A normal user never has to touch a console in windows. Until you can go the lifetime of a PC for a regular user not needing the console then Linux will not be as viable as Windows for 'regular' users.
*typetypetype*
*3D printed arm connected to raspberry pi opens wine bottle on desk*
*glug-glug-glug*
Now I'm ready to use my pc
I can install whatever I want without any command lines lmao. Thanks for proving my point. Windows just kinda works with an (mostly) intuitive UI and no need to remember thousands of commands which make no sense.
Windows just kinda works
This is how you made clear that you aren't very experienced. The type of shit that goes wrong with Linux and Windows has a lot of overlap. The difference being that if Linux breaks you have a chance to learn something and fix it. Whereas when Windows inevitably bricks your system with a shitty update that got force installed, you normally have to reinstall your OS
Just admit that your issue with Linux is that you learned a thing and don't want to learn another because you're a lazy coward.
You say this as if command line is bad? I love the command line for certain tasks. A very common task I do is convert an image from one filetype to another. How does this work on windows? Assuming I have a program that works with each image filetype, I open up the program, click on some menus and dropdown selections and click convert or "save as file type". On linux, where every major distro has imagemagick installed by default I type
convert image.jpg image.pdf
and done. I mean, how much easier can that be?
Or another example is merging a bunch of pdfs. I imagine adobe acrobat can do this, but I've never bothered to learn how, as I quickly learned that I can do it using pdftk on linux by typing
pdftk file1.pdf file2.pdf cat output merged.pdf
and done. If I do happen to forget the exact syntax for that command, google gives me the answer instantly.
If there's a difficult command line thing to do with lots of options that can get confusing, there is a GUI interface that someone has written that has the dropdown boxes so you don't HAVE to learn the specific options, but a little bit of learning the command line makes many tasks way more convenient than a typical windows GUI program.
Regarding wine, you've obviously have never used it (or likely even linux). I used my linux pc for 13 years before installing wine to play WoW. (side note to another of your strange assertions, I knew zero programming languages when I switched to linux.) Although, I wasn't really gaming at all in that time period. I mainly do work on my pc, and the software I use is so much more convenient to us on linux than windows: mainly latex and vim. Some friend asked me to play WoW with them and I said "If I can get it to run on linux, I will." Kind of thinking it would be a huge pain in the ass to get to run. But the whole process went super smooth, it was maybe 3 commands and now I use zero command line to launch WoW using wine.
Finally, I don't like the windows UI. Floating desktop managers always annoyed me (including the linux ones such as gnome) whenever I needed multiple windows displayed at once. Way too much fiddliness adjusting window sizes and borders. I learned about tiling window managers, and that's what I use now. Is tiling even possible on windows? I know you can win+arrow to kinda do this, but then rearranging can be a pain. I know this is all personal preference and most people like floating windows, but it's a choice I can make on linux.
I say that as in linux is not well designed if it needs years of CS experience to run and maintain, especially when its alternative is windows which works intuitively.
It's not made better by the fact that linuxboys constantly make up stuff about windows, like the comment which I originally replied to that got under the skin of all the 13 people in the world that use linux on their pc
Yah but you need to do 55 clicks instead to install some program after downloading it from browser.
You can install and run wine from either GUI(even less clicks) or just a oneliner command
55 clicks? Just a double click on the installer and go through the wizard, ez pz, especially when compared to
-git sudo 82737492 dor kror o k /87 +91 ||qidl
Just for it not to work since you don't have the required punchcard from 60s
I've never had windows force a reboot and I don't even turn my PC off at night like the other guy does
I just tell it to schedule a time for the middle of the night and go from there
I think maybe back in the xp/vista days that happened once or twice, but not in well over a decade now
At least that works for you. I’ve never been able to get windows to respect my “active hours.” Especially on my work laptop - I work overnight, and frequently have to open up a command prompt to override the forced scheduled restart. Even though the active hours thing allows you to put in a day that starts at PM and ends at AM, something about my work day crossing over midnight apparently just makes windows shit its diaper.
Edit: Dang, fuck me for just relaying my experience. Didn’t realize we weren’t allowed to criticize the godOS.
W10. I shut down my pc every night so if it needs to have a rest it will. But I never had it reboot on me in the middle of something like I hear linuxboys fantasize about. The only thing I notice when it's got an update coming up is that the button says "update and shutdown" instead of just "shutdown".
It’s fascinating to me how much someone can fanboy/fangirl over a simple computer OS that you’ll straight up smear the facts in favor of your argument. It’s fucking software, use what you want and chill the fuck out. So windows hasn’t forced you to restart because you shut your computer down every night. A lot of people don’t do that since we may still have other processes running while we’re not at the PC. In those cases, windows absolutely will force a restart, and usually at the most inconvenient time. You don’t have that problem because you don’t need your PC to be running overnight, so you shut yours down which mitigates the forced restart issue. And you know that’s what’s happening or you wouldn’t have mentioned it. So stop arguing in bad faith and come up with an actually relevant argument if you’re still planning on being worked up over what OS strangers on the internet use.
Oh man, it's ironic that you're accusing someone else of a being a fanboy and getting worked up over what OS a stranger uses.
“You’re overreacting to someone overreacting because you called them out on it, lolz” Also, not the definition of irony.
I don’t even have a dog in the race - as annoying as windows is, I still use it. The only Linux machine I have at the moment is my NAS. Not nearly as invested in this as you’re choosing to read into it. My issue was with someone arguing in bad faith.
You raise a good point, I don't really categorize myself as any OS fanboy, there are plenty of retarded things in windows (scrollbar implementation and focusthieves can eat my ass), but linux users are legitimately the most thin skinned fanboys of all time. As shown by this thread, say a little quip that's clearly exaggerated and suddenly basements all over the world start echoing mechanical keyboard clackering over it. If linux was reasonable to use and would have an UI even slightly comparable to windows I'd switch in a heartbeat
I'll take this bait. If your OS requires any experience, it's badly designed. Using an OS unreasonably difficult doesn't make you smarter.
From command line it's "sudo dnf update" for example and if you use flatpak, "flatpak update", updates everything. Or just click update in software manager.
There are programs that are not compiled/packaged by their developers and you have to do it yourself, but so are on Windows. But for OS from Microsoft noone would mention such program, because compiling on Windows is nightmare in comparason. C for example was designed for Unix-like systems. More high-level languages have less dependency installing, but still.
Nowadays people run WSL to compile programs for Windows and that says something...
EDIT: To people in responses below, don't get too engaged to something that can be trolling.
There's even an Update (technical docs) portal so apps can configure themselves to appear to self-update, without actually having to implement self-updating.
Crazy how you say that first paragraph with zero irony. If linux was good or easily accessible it would be used. You can choose which one it's not.
Sudo pe tk pfle dogp öepsj foe 829 p4o å28
Uh so yeah so this turns volume up by one root2 it's really not that hard haha
As he literally says you can just click update... don't fucking use it if you don't want to but then don't be like "IT SHOULD NOT EXIST CMD LINE BAD!!"
You never have to touch it on most typical distros. At all.
I don't remember any version of Windows I actively use ever auto updating for me either, but that's because I turned that shit off myself.
Not disagreeing with you, but when I turned off updates on win 10 it stopped it for a while, and then forced it no matter what I did in the middle of what I was doing one day (only to fail, bluescreen and revert, but that's another story)
I find it funny how you say it wasn't bingbong-SDK and then go on to explain what actually happened, and even that could've been a satirical comment I would've written.
I have never needed to use my programming knowledge to use Linux nor have I had an issue with drivers. Dunno what the hate is for, at least Linux works without changing half the values in the registry to make it tolerable or having an active internet connection (it won't install the OS without making you create a Microsoft account unless you open a secret command prompt to disable the Internet requirement and lie about not having Internet so they can attach all of the information they collect on you to a profile that enables them to deliver more relevant advertisements directly to your operating system)
it won’t install the OS without making you create a Microsoft account
I'm not pro-Windows by any means, but this simply isn't true.
Yea, kinda. It forces it hard though.
There is no obvious way to skip the MS account. You can select that it is a managed device and create a local user that way, but afaik that's the last option left and obviously it is there for a very different intention.
I am sure that if MS could remove it completely they would.
You need to open a secret command prompt and type in a command. The person I was replying to is apparently deathly allergic to typing out simple commands in a terminal, so he certainly wouldn't be able to get around it.
Um, no you don't. I mean you can do it that way if you want I suppose, but you can just use the good ol' decline button too (repeatedly, on various screens, with your network cable unplugged. Fuck Windows)
You don't need to open a secret command prompt or type a command to not install without an account lmao. Linux fanboys just keep on lying to support their dying OS It's hilarious haha.
"dying"
The world runs quite literally mostly on Linux. The vast majority of servers, all android phones, Chromebooks, and a growing percentage of desktops
Windows on the other hand is literally losing market share. But sure it's Linux that is dying lol
That's why valve built steam deck with windows in mind ;)
LOLOLOLOL
Dying? Linux runs on like 90% of the servers you use, 80% of the phones on this planet, and 100% of all networking gear.
Linux is dying because your brain is full of mush.
There is a wrong way to be right about something, and this comment is a great example of that.
It will now report home every timer you've ever set, what names you gave them, and what browser tabs were open at the time.
"We're making the clock app cloud enabled! Now you'll be able to set and clear alarms from any of your Windows™ connected devices! We've also implemented customisable actions with PowerShell scripting now fully integrated! Want your display to show a lovely sunrise every morning? Clock App can do it!"
Next minute -
"Security update 13112023-33: A malicious user can access the internet-exposed ClockAccess™ interface on your devices, setting alarms with scripted actions that can cause complete loss or exfiltration of your data.
To mitigate this issue, we have shifted ClockAccess™ to a more secure, fully cloud-based service. This also means that once updated, the application will be unavailable if there is no internet access. Please adjust your usage of the application accordingly.
As the Clock app runs under a Local Administrator account on consumer versions of Windows™ and Domain Administrator on Windows Server™ machines, this is a high priority update and it will be installed on application startup without user confirmation. You may notice increased resource utilisation by the Clock App, this is a necessary increase due to new and improved security features. It is recommended that at least one vCPU and 1.5GB of memory be made available at all times for efficient operation of the app."
I don't disagree.
For the first time, I am actually dual booting with Mint and using it. Honestly, it wouldn't be a thing without Proton. Props to Valve!
You should see Linux users when you tell them that the problems they have with Windows haven't been a thing since XP
How's that OS spying on you and showing you ads thing going? Is that not a problem anymore?
The ads you only see with a fresh install, which you can click away in less than a minute and never encounter them again in your life?
The ads you can completely circumvent by installing the N version of the Windows OS of your choice?
No, those are no problems what so ever.
No, those are no problems what so ever.
Love how you had to list all the exceptions and workarounds first in your reply, and then state there's no problems.
Denial is a powerful drug.
I mean, if you want to continue having to deal with things like this, then more power to you.
What ads? I do not see any ads on my windows 10
You haven't been keeping up with the news. They've already been prototyping and testing them.
Also, from this article ...
Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 14, 2025.
Then I guess I won’t have a computer anymore
Don't think that level of stubbornness will serve you well in life.
You guys are just very annoying. We all know linux exists but I kinda like being able to play all games I want without needing to check if my OS can handle it lmao
Linux can handle pretty much everything on Windows. Very few games can’t be run through Proton or similar.
While the ProtonDB website exists, I've never had to check it, every game I purchased through Steam or GoG (Bottles) just ran. /shrug
That's an old trope you're wielding around like a club.
Also, as far as the annoying part, it's not about a competition and we want to win, it's that we're trying to pull you out of the water and into the lifeboat, but you keep insisting on drowning in the ocean.
Any app that chooses to update or ask you a bunch of questions when you just want to use it CAN GET FUCKED. Open a loyalty app: would you like to rate our app? No. Would you like to see nearby deals? NO. Notifications for nearby deals would be useful.. NOOO! Earn double points tomorrow... MOther F*)(&^*&(%!!1
Exactly, the app should install updates in the background and apply them after the app is closed.
I'd even settle for an unobtrusive modal asking what to do like a "yes | no | never | settings" kind of deal
I like the way AppImages work on my Kubuntu system:
They automatically update themselves in the background and then trigger a system notification letting you know the app will be updated the next time you close it, with a button to initiate it now.
I would like to move into a paradigm of no software updates for things software updates are not appropriate for.
You've seen clock. How about CLOCK 2.0, with customizable options like crypto AI blockchain?
And we made it better by removing several features, but we made the font really big and thin, and added a bunch of whitespace around everything so it takes up a ton of room. That makes it modern and "accessible," see?
Well, either roll such updates out centrally, which Windows is capable of, I don't know why they don't use it here.
Or make it an entirely optional download, where the user can decide when to download.
Or just make the update process less shit. Don't block usage until the update is applied. And ideally just swap out the files in the background, although unfortunately that really isn't easily doable on Windows.
Yes, I was listing ways this could be solved without throwing out the baby with the bath water. For one, to point out that they really did actively choose the worst option.
But also, because as a professional software developer, I'm sympathetic to needing to roll out updates, even if they're not security-relevant, since you can't perfect your code before shipping.
Having said that, I do think, the professional/commercial software development model is terrible for such basic utility applications. Use an open-source application instead, where the hobbyist dev does have the time and passion to perfect the code before shipping it.
I just want owning a piece of software to be like owning a physical object again. It has its own look, it's own behaviors and quirks, and you choose it for those and come to rely on it for what it is and what it does. That this can all be pulled out from under you at any time without your say-so runs counter to user agency.
Also, as a developer I'm just lazy and want to be able to publish projects and then not have to keep updating them for 20 years.
And updates at non-intrusive times for the rest. I've been late for so many meetings when Zoom insists on doing some painfully slow update. (I know I could open it 5 minutes earlier but it's still a bad user experience.)
shit drives me bonkers. I tried to get the Dolby Atmos plugin. Has to be done on the store, which HAS to be signed into windows. No i dont want any of that. let me buy it from your site and redeem a code or something. I dont want to sign into the store. at all.
I just went with the alternative. Installing the logitech control software, restricting its internet access but using its dolby DTS features.
Is that a paid app?
Because as dumb as the Windows Store is, you can still download and install anything provided it's a free app without a Microsoft account still. I just tried it and it still works, although I didn't try an exhaustive list of apps. If it gives you a pop up nagging about a Microsoft account, just cancel out of the log in pop up and the app will still download and install.
It is. You are allowed to download it as it has a trial. But when it’s time to pay the only way is through a logged in account on the Microsoft store.
little things like this that would have only gotten updates for one version of windows to another, for ui changes or sumsuch, now get updates frequently, and since they're 'store' updates now, you have even less control over them. it's rather annoying.
little things like this that would have only gotten updates for one version of windows to another, for ui changes or sumsuch, now get updates frequently, and since they’re ‘store’ updates now, you have even less control over them. it’s rather annoying.
This is actually not a Windows but a general modern development issue. Things need to change. Change! CHAAAAANGE! Value! Effort! Work! Endlessly! GROWTH!
Look at how many apps update every 1-3 days. It's crazy.
I was hoping once Moore's law crapped out companies would switch their focus from "CHANGE! FEATURES! MOAR CHANGR11!1" to performance and stability. What a fool I was.
This has driven me nuts about computers for 30 years at least. More things used to be built for a couple lifetimes. I guess capitalism (or maybe stock investments) pushed ever increasing consumption. And so we get this need for everything changing all the time.
Out in my garage I have a set of wood planes that are basically the same design for the last 120 years. My oldest is, I think, 1940s. Stanley is still selling these without any changes because they're not needed. My newest plane I got in 2022. They don't need new features. They work.
Software could be like this. Focus on stability first, then performance, then truly helpful, necessary features third. The latter are a lot rarer when you stop changing for the sake of changing.
Come to linux, we have the ability to update every 10 seconds or never, entirely your choice.
At least issues with the "work PC" are generally paid.
I hate dealing with Windows issues in my time for free.
i got my dad to let me install Linux on his PC aswell. I told him that i will not come over to fix his windows install ever again but i would be happy to teach him how to use linux. He is very happy on Linux Mint for the last 2 years now aswell
u mean starting a linux vm on my work pc? that's not possible. Workplace services shut those things down completely. Can't install or run anything not blessed by the pope himself.
yup it sure does... especially since i am working in IT but all my collegues "dont want the hassle of implementing linux machines into the work environment... windows works why do you want linux?" gosh darnit
For some reason windows will update their own app from their own app store, and then immediately apply another update when you open the app.
Their whole system is so hacked together.
I misread that, too. With punctuation, it would be:
...for my food. Windows, why?!
(They're addressing the Windows operating system.)
Just yesterday it requested me to verify my account (with a full UAC dialog) before opening the clock app. I guess it was trying to sync (?) the custom alarms/timers (??) between my devices (???) but... WTF, Microsoft.
I get updating the clock app, what I don't get is why update it like this and why would it take so long that the user felt the need to complain? Also we are getting the update ready for you? So they're stopping the user use the clock app while they download and prepare the update? Has updating the app even started yet?
downloadUpdate();
sleep(10000); // 10 seconds should be enough time for the buffer cache to finish writing to disk even on the slowest system.
Eh I've seen much worse. At least it's not:
if (condition)
{
doTheThing()
} else
{
doNotDoTheThing()
}
For some reason I hate the brackets taking up a whole line it just looks terrible.
Oh yea that's bad too, but to be fair, it's a comment which is kind of a pain in the butt to format.
Has the update process crashed completely?Or will I have to wait all this time again if I restart the process? With windows you eventually get used to not knowing these things.
I think windows has a feature where it gets the update for other neighbors with windows. this might be why the extra lag.
oooorrr... as EA says, "to give the user a sense of accomplishment" ~
Ah yes, "My computer finally updated! I should feel grateful and lucky! I am blessed by the gods and I should reward myself with some dopamine!"
Image Transcription: Windows Software Dialog Box
Clock
Clock needs an update. We are getting the update ready for you...
A stopwatch icon is shown.