https://www.kyivpost.com/post/23747
The Russian Navy’s Askold was a cruise-missile-carrying corvette destroyed in weekend air strikes in Crimea near Kerch Bridge.
Looking forward to the day Putin gets done like these warships he's been losing, and hopefully by the Russian people. Fucking scumbag war criminal.
People are too afraid of Disappearing to stand up to him. Self preservation unfortunately looks at short term over long term.
You know what they say, what's good for your survival isn't good for your health.
It's unfortunate, but understandable. Fear of death is a powerful motivator. That's why tyrants resort to it so frequently.
More and more news makes it sound like Russian conscripts get better treatment in Ukraine's POW camps than they do in the Russian military. Hopefully, more and more of them can find ways to lay down arms and exit the conflict to safety.
I think in the context of the Black Sea fleet it's considered major. They cannot replace them so every ship counts especially missile carrying ones.
this sent me down a hole comparing the two. looks like in terms of relative armaments, the Rocinante isn't that different to modern day.
They have a navy, but most of it is outside the Black Sea, and Turkey is not going to let it in.
You're right, it's not, but it's what the Russians have. Keep in mind that the Black Sea is basically an oversized brackish lake, but is really important to the Russians because it has warm water ports. Russians love warm water ports. They also can get things into the Mediterranean from there, but they're bottle necked at either Gibraltar or Suez for getting out into the world's oceans.
Just looking at what they have in the Black Sea, they have no ships over 10k tons displacement since the Moskva sank. There's 5 ships around 5k tons, then 12 missile corvettes of 500 to 800 tons (one of which is the Askold mentioned in OP, and it was at the higher end of that range). The rest of the combat ships are things like submarines, landing craft, anti-submarine patrol, and a few others that aren't really relevant against Ukraine.
Considering what's left there, this is big, if not major. It was the biggest of their missile boats, and limits how many cruise missiles Russia can lob into Ukraine on any given day.
Are they lost? Yes
Have they lost? Unfortunately no, they're going to throw death and suffering at this conflict they started until they get what they want or they (somehow) run out of bodies to throw.
They have strengthened their ability to pull from prisons too which opens up hundreds of thousands of more bodies for the front lines.
The west needs to double down and double down again in support of Ukraine.
Not... really. The cost of pulling out of Ukraine isn't just a silly little failed investment or something, it means Russia gains a stronger foothold into Europe
As opposed to letting an authoritarian state gain more power and influence? Methinks people in other parts of the world must have thought it is a sunk cost fallacy as well to support Britain when they were left standing alone when France fell to the Nazis. But I have to admit as to why some would be reluctant to provide more support for Ukraine considering much of the world is experiencing cost of living crisis. Although many countries, including the US, at the start of World War II were just reeling from the Great Depression either and yet still provided support for Britain.
Ukraine today and Britain then received billions of dollars of support, which is a lot for the common folks, but the truth is that they're chump change relative to entire budget of the US government back then and now. Though again, I recognise that these are chump change in billions of dollars could make a massive difference to the lives of people on the domestic front. However, I would like to remind others that a lot more billions of dollars will be lost if Russia is allowed to win and if the Nazis back then had won. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is a direct violation of UN Charter to respect national sovereignty and borders. What we have built in the past 70 years or so to maintain peace will be for nothing and we'd be back to the more Wild West-style international relations that led to the Second World War. Letting Russia could collapse the UN and lead to World War III.
...letting an authoritarian state gain more power and influence?...
That's one weird argument. Are you implying that meddling with other state's affairs is justified if it's to keep it from gaining power and influence?
That's one weird argument. Are you implying morality stops at borders?
And it's not even meddling, they are asking for help.
Are you implying morality stops at borders?
Kind of, yeah. A moral cause in one country can be an evil wrongdoing in other. Case in point - Al-Qaeda was formed because US troops were deployed in some country in the middle east to defend someone.
And it’s not even meddling, they are asking for help.
I'm okay with helping Ukraine. I'm not okay if it's helping only to fuck with Russia.
Helping other democracies defeat authoritarian invaders is absolutely worth fucking all of the invaders "affairs"
Helping other X defeat Y invaders is absolutely worth fucking all of the invaders “affairs”"
Try with different X and Y. See where it gets you.
That's one weird argument to say that supporting a defender, unprovoked, from an aggressor is "meddling". It's meddling for your side, amirite?
The reason I'm said this because it sounds like "preventing Russia from prospering is a good cause", as if we're still at cold war or something. Probably not what you've meant, just pointing at possible confusion in interpretation. Helping a little guy, sure, but helping only to fuck the big guy is what Putin was rambling about in his justifications about war.
You don't know what the sunk cost fallacy is.
You seem to have this idea that Ukraine can win the war if the US gives enough support.
Do you think it's possible for Ukraine to lose even if they got all the information and equipment the US was able to give?
Did people back then think Britain would lose to Nazis?
Well, Ukraine proved more than capable and Russia proved to be less so despite the huge manpower and military advantages. Even if Russia win, it will be a Pyrrhic one as they already have significantly reduced international image and have become reliant on China to keep them going due to sanctions. After the war, Russia might even be beholden to China. Future generations of Russians will be paying for the cost of war, both financially and on personal level, just as now the Russians have paid then and still today for the cost of Afghan war in the 1970s. The Russian/Soviet intervention in Afghanistan contributed to the collapse of the Soviet Union, and arguably life in the Soviet Union might even be better than the current kleptocratic regime of Putin. More people have emigrated post-Soviet Russia than they did during the Soviet Union. As a consequence of this, even before the invasion of Ukraine, Russia is facing a demographic crisis. Russia have had to mobilise just for the current war, taking people away from work. Many Russian factories have also complained of staff shortages. Hundreds of thousands of Russians fled the draft. And more importantly, more Russians died in the war in Ukraine than during the Afghan war. So, even if Russia win, or get some concessions, or the war led to a stalemate they have already lost a great deal too. After the war, Russia will be facing an economic hardship from financial and human cost. Somehow, you did not think that sunk cost fallacy applies to Russia too.
Imagine Vietnam-era US, but it was willing to sacrifice every warm body within its borders to win.
Like the US, I think Russia is on a collision course with failure. But they're going to take it a lot farther before waving a white flag. So much so that it will take the country decades to recover.
And Ukraine won't be looking too hot at that point anymore, either.
Yeah that "every warm body" doesn't work and will be Russian undoing.
You see, in the real world you have a very limited amount of "warm bodies" to throw to begin with. Realistically speaking, only males between, say, 15 and 45, and a few women who are more fit than average. Anything else gets useless very quickly.
Unfortunately this is also the group that forms a large part of your work force. Yes, you'll have women left, but realistically you don't see women picking up garbage at night.
Russia already has a huge gap in employable people because of the bodies they threw, and the bodies that decided to bugger off and flee before the draft got to them. especially those that fled were the more intelligent ones, the (future) scientists and engineers that you need to grow your country.
Russia is FUBAR for the next 5 decades thanks to Putin
Yep. The Romans fucked themselves sideways doing this a few times. You can have all the soldiers or you can have some farmers and skilled laborers. You can't have both.
But a sunken russian warship is a good russian warship. I mean it can't be used in this war anymore...
