It's just designed with a slightly different set of assumptions.
Instead of water freezing and boiling 100° apart, it's 180° in fahrenheit. That makes it so that they're on the opposite sides of a temperature gauge, and a degree of rotation of the gauge matches a degree of temperature.
Instead of zero being the freezing point of water under specific conditions, it's a brine solution whose temperature will stabilize in a way that's useful for using as a calibration point.
Stripped of its context, it's odd. But it's not irrational, just no longer consensus as the standard, and as such deprecated.
Fahrenheit makes sense for humans. Most of your day to day climates are in the 0 to 100 scale, and every 10 degrees is a noticeable level change.
- 100 super hot day, approaching unsafe without counter measures
- 90 really hot day, slightly annoying and should take precautions
- 80, hot day, more annoying than anything
- 70, beautiful day, enjoy it
- 60 not to bad, if it's windy you could be slightly on the cold side
- 50 long sleeves or maybe a hoodie
- 40 definitely a jacket, and hat
- 30 full on coat, scarfe, and hat
- 20 multiple layers of out for a while, maybe double pants
- 10 annoyingly cold, need to start thinking about the safety precautions
- 0 and below, temperature now measured in hold long you can be outside before danger
Celsius makes sense for science stuff because it's derived from science stuff, so things like calories and energy work with it. But it doesn't really apply to everyday life as well. So it actually makes sense to use both units for the things the are good at.
It depends on what you were raised with. For me I have all these relevant points in my head for C. 25 is nice, under 20 you slowly need to dress longer stuff. Over 30 is hot, over 40 sucks hard, over 50 can become deadly soon. Body temp is around 37.
Being from outside of the US I'm used to Celsius for everything, so I can make the same list, the numbers are just not whole 10s and I would probably round to nearest 5.
Just an fyi, 100F is not “unsafe without counter measures” level of hot. That would be around 115+F. I say this as someone from a city that regularly hits 120F during the summer. 100 you can still get in your car, 115+ you need to wear gloves or else you’ll get 3rd degree burns. 100 have to buy pizza for lunch, 115+ just bake a pizza in your car.
I work outside in the Texas sun. 100F is unsurvivable without regular water intake and regular breaks. That would literally define it as unsafe without counter measures. You're talking about walking to your car. We're talking about actually being in it. Like playing a sport or fishing. 110 here means you can only work in short 15-20 minute bursts. 100 and you're sweating so profusely your entire shirt Is soaked. At 90 it's warm and a little toasty. At 80 it feels pretty good out. At 70 is literally the perfect temperature. 60 starts to get a bit on the chill side. 50 is light jacket weather. 40 is heavier jacket weather. 30 is a winter coat and multiple layers. Works just fine for us. If you don't like it then don't use it. I don't even know why this argument is so prevalent. It's not complicated like y'all would like everyone to believe.
Yeah, I was using getting into your car as an example because our burn center has to put out a warning every year due to people literally burning their hand off getting into their car. Like I said, my state regularly gets to 120 in the summer. Texas rarely gets that hot. I’ve already stated in my previous comment that you’d need to drink more water, but it’s not going to fucking kill you. Hell, during summer we are lucky if it gets below 105 at night. You’re being really dramatic with the whole “my shirt is soaked in sweat!!” When you obviously live in a humid area. It being 70 in Florida will get you the same results. Like seriously, 100 ain’t shit, yeah drink more water, but you don’t need to stop every 2 minutes for a water break. 110 here means construction crews stop working at 2 instead of 6, and no there are no 10-15 increments of working. You shouldn’t only be drinking water, which will make you sick, anyways. You should also have an intake of oral salts to balance everything out. And it will prolong your need for water. And for the record, I was homeless for years so I have literally lived in the heat and seen countless people die from exposure. No one ever died when it was 100 out.
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100F is unsurvivable without regular water intake and regular breaks.
That's cute. You do know there are other places in the world rather than your tiny little bubble, right? 38ºC (100ºF for those stuck in the past) is a regular hot summer day in most of Brazil.
Humans adapt to temperature, if you took someone who lives in greenland and put them in the Sahara desert they'd probably die faster than someone from around there
But it doesn’t really apply to everyday life as well. So it actually makes sense to use both units for the things the are good at.
It's funny to assume that all people using Celsius are unable to ascertain how they will feel outside based on the temperature value.
I mean, I understand that round numbers are cute, but we are able to handle numbers ending in 5 as well as numbers ending in 0.
Because it assumes that using Celsius makes the same estimations impossible. It's basically telling most of the world that we outside the US are stupid.
I don't have the need to know it. But the comfort of rubes is not a reason to persist in a backward unit.
But again, the US is such a backward and sick country in so many other ways, that is even better they keep acting backwards. It's a reminder to the rest of the world to keep our distance.
That’s not particularly nice. I said nothing ill against you, and I feel it’d be implied by my question that I am one of the “rubes” you’re speaking of. Such an unwarranted jab.
And wishing for the suffering of 300,000,000 people is cruel.
Google "XF to C". That easy.
Every time. I never use freedom units so if I read some reference points I'll forget them by the time I read the next freedom unit. I only know my height and what an inch is because of phones and screens.
Feet are not intuitive at all either, my gf has 5 on the US scale and I have 13.5, one is 22cm and the other is 31cm. That's a huge margin on what the us feet unit actually is. Turns out that feet are 30.48cm, so basically my feet is actually a us feet, yay. I'll forget this tomorrow. cm is arbitrary too, yeah, but at least it has the ease of conversion.
Never. They use the same spacing between degrees. The Kelvin scale was derived from the Celsius scale, just placing the 0° at absolute zero rather than at the freezing point of water.
Fahrenheit: how hot humans feel
Celsius: how hot water feels
Kelvin & Rankine: how hot atoms feel
I don’t think how hot humans feel works at all, it’s just arbitrary
Can humans survive 100 degree heat? Yes so it doesn’t represent 100%
150 for 3rd degree burns (almost instant), does Fahrenheit go off base 150? Also no
What about cold? Well -40 requires a lot of layers, so then +40 should be pretty hot for humans right? Nope, because it’s not related to humans at all
100°F was supposed to be average human body temp. Guy who made the scale fucked up his math and we ended up actually at 98.6°F
Nah, that's a myth. It's actually a little more complicated than that, and the actual measurements changed over time.
"the original paper suggests the lower defining point, 0 °F, was established as the freezing temperature of a solution of brine made from a mixture of water, ice, and ammonium chloride (a salt).[2][3] The other limit established was his best estimate of the average human body temperature, originally set at 90 °F, then 96 °F (about 2.6 °F less than the modern value due to a later redefinition of the scale)."
That's from your link. Seems like the guy you responded to was correct or the wiki isn't.
For people wanting to not Read: freezing and boiling were intended to be 180° apart, or the opposite sides of a circle. So a gauge using his scale would have one degree of temperature equal one degree of rotation.
For set points, he used his best approximation of average human body temperature, and the coldest stable temperature that could easily be replicated, which was a freezing brine solution whose temperature would self stabilize. What he set those set points to was based of the work of an older scale, that he adjusted to get rid of fractions and make more fine tuned.
This is a great scale. Let's solve all the arguments about temperature and instead just create a "pleasantness scale". Could probably even market this and sell a "personalised pleasantness scale" and you pass it out to your friends when you meet them.
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I don’t think how hot humans feel works at all, it’s just arbitrary
Fahrenheit was originally calculated to be 64 even divisions between water freezing temp and human body temp, then 32 more units below freezing.
Then ambient human body temp was recalculated from 96F to 98.6F.
So it's not exactly arbitrary. It's based on powers of 2, based upon an inaccurate measurement.
I mean, the temperature 0 was assigned because it was the lowest temperature that winter in Fahrenheit's town, and the "powers of two" was only chosen because it was simple to mark degree lines on his instrument. Feels quite arbitrary to me...
Can humans survive 100 degree heat? Yes so it doesn’t represent 100%
I have no idea what this means.
150 for 3rd degree burns (almost instant), does Fahrenheit go off base 150? Also no
What about cold? Well -40 requires a lot of layers, so then +40 should be pretty hot for humans right? Nope, because it’s not related to humans at all
Why do these matter? What percentage of humans live where it's regularly -40 degrees? Why does the scale need to be perfect in your opinion? And how is Celsius better?
I have no idea what this means.
Humans can survive 100 F so it’s not a scale of 0-100, which you would expect for a system based on humans
Why does the scale need to be perfect in your opinion?
The person I responded to said it was based off humans, I was arguing that it wasn’t because no patterns exist in relation to humans
And how is Celsius better?
Well the person claimed it’s based on the temperature of water at sea level with 0 being freezing and 100 being boiling. This would be the 0-100% for water
Technically, water can still go higher than 100°C, same as humans can go higher than 100°F. Water turns into steam. If the temperature continues to rise, the steam would theoretically enter a plasma state. Then, you could say the water has "died" as the atoms and molecules lose their electrons.
Humans can survive 100 F so it’s not a scale of 0-100, which you would expect for a system based on humans
No one said it's a scale limited from 0 to 100 on the basis of survivability. That's something you just made up on the spot to push some weird narrative.
The person I responded to said it was based off humans, I was arguing that it wasn’t because no patterns exist in relation to humans
I again have no idea what you're saying. The patterns of 0 being low and 100 being high isn't a pattern related to humans? That's obviously not true. We use 0 as the bottom and 100 for the top on a lot of other things.
Well the person claimed it’s based on the temperature of water at sea level with 0 being freezing and 100 being boiling. This would be the 0-100% for water
Why are you limiting 0 and 100 as cut offs?
No one said it represents "100%", whatever that is even supposed to mean. 100F is really hot outside. 0 F is really cold. Doesn't have to make 100% sense. Celsius doesn't make perfect sense either. There is no perfect magical scale that works completely.
Fahrenheit only works like that if ur used to extreme cold tempature. Anything under 10c (50f) is cold af to me and 38c (100f) is hot sure but nowhere near as cold as -17c (0f) is
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Yeah, this gets repeated (by Americans) every time a discussion about temperature measuring systems comes up, but it is complete nonsense. The vast majority of Earth's population are completely fine with measuring how hot they feel in celsius, it is only people who are unaccustomed to that system who thinks it is somehow unqualified to do that.
American who lives in a country that uses C now.
20=frickin cold 30=swampy ass 40=nope
Not enough degrees of separation
20 isn’t cold at all, it’s perfectly warm.
10 is nippy, but you still warm up quick after a few minutes walking, and get sweaty if you’re working on something.
0 is cold enough for a couple layers. Jumper + jacket so you can take one off if you warm up too much.
-10 doesn’t feel that much different to 0.
-20 is time to put on a thicker coat over the jumper.
I lived for a third of my life in a country that uses Celsius, and the switch to Fahrenheit was not only seamless, it made much more sense to me intuitively. Whereas I was fine using Celsius, I don't really want to go back.
You'll be shocked to learn that the distance in Kelvin is also adjusted to water "chemistry", albeit changing the aggregate state seems more physics to me, since no molceules are reacting with each other.
Thankfully that has been redefined using the Boltzmann constant, so now anyone in the universe can agree on °C and K without needing to measure any Vienna standard ocean water.
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You can't change the aggregate state of a single molecule, or how do you mean that? Excluding plasma.
you can of a lot of molecules though. and tgat is classically "physics" rather than "chemistry". Classical chemistry is reactiona between atoms or molecules to form new ones.
If you get deeper into it, the lines between chemistry and physics blur anyways.
Zero Fahrenheit is the freezing point of brine (of a certain concentration). That's water chemistry.
Originally, 90F was based on the average human body temperature, but that later changed to 96F, which just goes to show how arbitrary that scale is.
It's all arbitrary. Someone just decided to base a scale off of something and that something isn't fixed from the start. The meter used to be based off the measurement of the earth, but now it's based off of light.
It's just some random semi-useful starting point that we all agree on so we're using the same language.
The meter did not change, science has merely defined it more precisely and reliably over time. It is a measure of length, still one 40 millionth of the circumference of the earth through the poles. Other definitions like the speed of light definition will give you the same result. These newer definitions have reduced uncertainty and added ways to reproduce its length by natural means. But it's not like the 'original' meter was shorter or longer than today's meter, at least not by any noticeable margin.
Shifting the top end of a temperature scale by over five percent of the scale is a bit more arbitrary than that.
0°C is completely fine with jeans and a thick jacket, especially when it's sunny and there isn't much wind. It's cold, but there's probably not much ice or snow, if anything, probably mostly slush.
Compared to say -20 C where you should have a good ski jacket and ski pants, warm shoes and socks, generally multiple layers everywhere, winter gloves and so on.
It can be -20 C and you can be still fine with jeans and a jacket if it isn't windy.
What I'm saying is temperature alone doesn't tell you the whole story.
Yeah, part of why they also have "comfort" or "feels like" in forecasts besides the actual termperature.
But so is 100°F completely fine with a shirt and shorts and some shade.
So basically: |0°F| > |100°F|, where | is the mathematical absolute operator.
0°F is really cold, while 100°F is merely somewhat hot.
Humidity. I'm guessing you don't live in a humid place because freezing temps are horrifically cold here. You will need a winter coat and multiple layers of your going to be outside for a while. I layer long Johns under my pants and wear my parka and a light jacket as well as 2 layers of socks. Everytime a northerner comes here they are shocked at the cold/heat. That's because the air here is full of water to the point that you will actually get wet just from the humidity, not even sweating.
No. Finnish sauna is usually around 80°C to 90°C, but sometimes crazy people do over 100°C. The starting temp in sauna competitions was 110°C
I just read that wikipedia article, and man, those saunas are crazy. I guess they really did mean °C.
The temperature that water freezes at is only fairly cold weather by a lot of people's perception.
I'd call it "chilly". No jacket for running to the mailbox, or if I'll be outside for half an hour or so. Light jacket otherwise. I don't expect it to snow, since it's not actually cold enough usually, and there won't be ice on the ground unless it's just warmed up.
So it might be "freezing", but that doesn't make it cold.
It's almost like being 'fairly cold for humans' is a wide range, and subjective, therefore useless as a baseline.
Well I'd say that's why op chose the adverb "fairly", it gets across that it's a wide range and lacks specificity.
Not completely useless as a baseline, but fairly general.
Obviously the freezing point of water is also a range (depending on purity, altitude, etc) but would you say it's less, or more specific?
Compared with the human experience of "cold"? More specific, even when talking about ocean water and water on mountains or whatever altitude water you're talking about.
True, but that's also not super relevant to the merits of a temperature scale. Fahrenheit isn't actually based off of human subjective temperature perception, it just coincidentally lines up a bit closer with the comfortable range for people in northern temperate climates.
Before it's redefinition in terms of Celsius, fahrenheit was defined by a particular temperature stable brine solution (easy to replicate for calibration), and with the freezing and boiling points of water set to be 180 degrees apart, because of the relationship with a circle.
People decided we liked base10 adherence more than trigonometry, and then everyone adopted Celsius, so we should use Celsius. Doesn't make fahrenheit some sort of random scale, just deprecated.
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The most common defence of Fahrenheit are Americans saying it is the most suited for humans because 0 is "very cold" and 100 "very hot". That is why people are referencing it with regards to the merits of a temperature scale in this thread.
Oh, I know. I was just agreeing that it would be a crap way to design a system, but that doesn't also mean that it's not reasonable for a lot of people to feel like it fits better.
It's design is as specific as Celsius and it's only coincidentally lines up with northern temperate.
Preferring 10 degree temperature intervals to 5 degree intervals is a silly reason to give up compatibility, but people have their preferences.
It's not like we don't teach metric in schools, or label everything in metric.
Many places in the US, particularly in the East and Midwest, experience average temperatures at or below freezing (32°F) in the winter, so while it's definitely cold, it's often not considered really cold. It's not until you move further towards 0 and the negatives that most people in that area feel really cold (like weather advisory levels). Of course the further north you go, the more normal those temps are. Likewise, it's definitely not unheard of for temps to hit 100°F (37°C) in the Southwest, but it would be considered pretty hot for much of the country, and even Texas suffers at sustained temps like that.
Freezing temps here are definitely considered very cold. Cold enough that you need multiple layers and you should be wrapping your pipes to prevent freezing. It's very humid here. Our freezing is insanely cold. Like chills you to your bones cold. Our hot here is insanely hot as well.
I dunno, man. I usually only wear a sweatshirt when it's 32. You get used to the cold fast.
There was an article recently that said the researchers in Antarctica were wearing shorts because it was so warm (14F).
You're failing at pretending to be human. We're literally made of water. About 80% of us is water.
Only pure water freezes at 0C. And human bodies aren't going to reach 0C while alive. What point is it you're trying to make with your statement that we don't freeze solid at 0C?
Yeah, often it is just way more convenient to use the Kelvin scale without any negative temperatures for some calculations and formulas then Celsius
Because aligning to the temperature at which water boils is the objectively correct choice?
"Hey, how hot is it going to be today?"
"Well water is about 1/3rd the way to boiling, so about 30 degrees"
True, we should be using a temperature scale that was defined on how cold it was in Gdańsk, Poland in the winter of 1708, something the average man is more familiar with than water temperature, right?
When it's "freezing cold" or "ice cold" outside, what do you think is freezing? When something is "boiling hot", what is boiling exactly?
We use water to describe temperature even without using Celsius, because it's everywhere around us, and we are literally made of this stuff. It's also one of the only materials that goes through three different states in our usual temperature range, so using those as a reference point to measure temperature makes perfect sense imo.
The fact that 99.5% of the global population uses it makes it the objectively correct choice.
The remaining .5% can keep bashing their heads against a wall if they like though
Not arguing for either unit here - use what you're comfortable with and don't be smug about it - but Americans are ~4-5% of the world and even if not all Americans use Fahrenheit, people in other countries (e.g. mine) still do.
Sure, except in America agencies such as NASA and the Weather Service use metric because it's the proper measurement to use.
Pretty sure what you did here was a logical fallacy. Idk which one bc my smol brain cant comprehend them. In music yoh dont need a best. Eith units on the other hand it makes things a lot easier if they are universal.
We used water to decide a lot of measurements. 1ml of water is = 1 gram. A gram of water is also equal to 1 cm^3. It's a beautiful system in that way. Water surrounds us and gives us life, it has chemically interesting properties that make this planet function. Why shouldn't we just base everything off of this one substance?
Not using metric is so much more fun:
- water freezes at 32, boils at 212
- 16 cups in 1 gallon (both standard units of measurement)
- 1 (US) cup of water is 8 (US) oz
- 1 (US) cup of water is 14.4375in^3
Makes your maths so much more exciting!!
Maybe ecause everyone uses it? Just so you know nobody even knows how fahrenhiet was defined first, everyone in the scientific community uses kelvin which is celsius but shifted so absolute zero is zero on it and the us actually uses si they just convert it to imperial so conversion between them is easier. There is point to imperial units other than its hard to switch between systems.
The temperature of water is very intuitive in nature. Dip ur hand in ice water. That's almost 0C. Dip ur finger in boiling water (very quickly). That's 100C. Dip ur finger in coffee whose temperature is fit for consumption: that's around 75-80C. Ur hot water shower is likely between 37 and 41C..
Everything is tied quite well to water. Now compare that to F. What's 0F? What's 100F?
Forget the intuitiveness of celsius. It's also much easier to calculate using celsius. When I say "My coffee was worth 80 calories", I'm referring to a measure called "KCal", which is the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of 1 litre, or 1 Kg of water by 1C. So if u ate something worth 100Kcal, you consumed enough energy to heat 1L/1Kg of water from 0C (ice) to 100C (steam). The average human requires around 2500 KCal everyday. Which is equivalent to 2.5 liters of water. Pretty cool, huh....
Just a quick sidenote: KCal is still not an "SI" unit. "Joules" are what we use here, but that's another story.
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the Celsius nerds are mad at you, I guess. I love it when you see someone make a good point and the downvotes just pile on.
never change, reddit.
edit: they're here! lol. hey guys! have fun with your storming the castle to defeat the evil Fahrenheit! make sure to prepare your spells, you don't wanna get caught out when the negative values come out. 💕
the Celsius nerds are mad at you
You mean most of the world? Defending a backwards options never looks like a rational choice.
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Ooooooh I'm on defense? awesome! Do I have time to prepare units to line my front?
is this going to be a timed battle? what are the prizes for winning?
do I get a free Celsius thermometer if I win? that'd be swell!
That attitude requires an effort better employed to cultivate your mind somewhat. Maybe with time you'll learn to use the inside of your head instead of only carrying your hair around.
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Thanks! Same to you! I hope you figure out how to use your "hair carrier" effectively and be a little less serious about something as simple as the way someone records the temperature.
Wishing you the best of luck!
Being "a little less serious" about everything and demanding everyone to act the same is the mark of the willingly mentally inept.
Do you miss bullying the nerds?
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It is so funny seeing Americans thinking that only nerds uses celsius, because they can't fathom it themselves. It is like when you call 24 hour time "military time", even though the majority of Earths civilian population uses it.
I'd like to propose a discussion between a person from Arizona and a person from Alaska to define what is "Really hot outside"
Im from Texas, and 100F is "stay inside in the AC" weather. I bet an Arizonan would say the same.
Being from a particularly hot or cold location doesn't make you immune to heat or cold, it makes you a connoisseur of heat and cold. You get better at recognizing gradations of extreme temperature (knowing which are uncomfortable and which can literally kill you if you're not careful), you learn how to plan ahead and dress for the weather, and you develop emotional coping systems for extremes.
But if it's either 100°F or 0°F, no matter where you're from, that's a temperature to be wary of.
Heyo! I’m from Arizona. 100 is not “stay inside the AC” weather for us, it’s practically “time to get a light jacket” weather.
We should really normalise the Japanese system - it makes as much sense as the European system and has the benefit of being "alphabetically" sortable.
I'm entirely for it.
Handwritten, I often use the military style 09 Oct 2023 just because the meaning is inarguable, but for files and such, it's always YYYY-MM-DD.
I'd also like to see us adopt GMT, just calling noon and midnight whatever number they happen to be in our location. With remote work and jet travel, it makes sense.
And base-12 arithmetic, but that's just a pipe dream.
Especially true if you include time as well:
Year > Month > Day > Hour > Minute
Vs
Day < Month < Year > Hour > Minute
I'm not quite sure what that means - or that we should lead with that bit, but an advantage is an advantage... Even if it only benefits Japanese readers.
True, you can be in 100'C indoors and be fine (sauna). Though I've heard some people think you'll boil alive there lol