I think they might be referring to when steel workers were exposed to heavy metals like lead, cadmium, and manganese through their work.
Yeah... Steel wouldn't be a big deal. It's mainly iron and carbon, both things that our bodies use.
I came to say this. I have also noticed a strong trend amongst people from each generation for health.
Teflon was introduced in 1938, when my grandfather was 11. In the 1955, when my father was born, is the last time that we have Teflon untainted blood from. At some point between 1955 and 1985 when I was born, Teflon proliferated to the point that it was being found in every blood sample around the world.
So my grandfather lived ~40-50 years without being massively contaminated with Teflon, my father probably got to adulthood, and I have never been without it. Now an anecdotal sample that follows a larger trend. My grandfather is in his 90's with pretty good health and is still going pretty strong. My father and both of his siblings are in their 60's-70's and all have failing health, and I know so few people in my own age range that are actually healthy without autoimmune disease or other systemic issue that I couldn't fill a high school auditorium with them.
Not saying that there's nothing wrong with microplastics or PFAS, but keep in mind there's survival bias at play here.
I have seen the exact opposite as, aside from obesity problems, each generation I've seen has had significantly higher life expectancy than the last.
I know multiple people now who have outlived the short life expectancy their health complications in the 80s supposedly gave them. I know a few families who have people living longer than anyone else in their blood line ever has. The heart and lung problems that killed off my grandparents have been dealt with now and my parents and my generation are already outliving them and far healthier at our ages.
This is all thanks to great medical advancement, of course, but the point is this isn't some dire threat that warrants doom and gloom, but another medical hurdle for us to be aware of and work out like we have all the others.
Yes, by either raising your own farm animals, buying dairy and meat products from known and truly eco producers or going vegan. The last option, though, might get you into another category of chemicals and/or GMOs if you don't carefully select the products and categories based on labeling and nutritional values and knowledge
Scientists are still learning about the effects of PFAS on humans, but studies show these chemicals can harm different systems in the body.
The Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry says exposure to PFAS may lead to higher risk for kidney or testicular cancer, increased cholesterol levels, and damage to the liver and immune system.
My hospital sent an email out that for unknown reasons liver disease is on the rise for non drinkers and people without diabetes.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/pfas-forever-chemicals-health-risk-water
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/22/1106863211/the-dangers-of-forever-chemicals
Well it also looks like PFAS is a big group of chemicals, and brand name Teflon now uses a specific version called PTFE which they (can you trust them?) claim is not as bad as PFAS.
But even if that’s true, the production of it still produces tons of known toxic waste.
Ya know… I think my original notion I got from Johnny Harris…. Whom I’ve actually grown a bit skeptical of lately.
I switched over to ceramic pans, specifically the Ayesha Curry ones, but who knows if that will be bad in the future. I tried the Caphalon ceramic and those were horrible. The nonstick pans are bad for you over a certain temperature where it breaks down. There's an excellent movie called Dark Waters about the original lawsuit and that man is a hero.
Yeah teflon is most dangerous for the people manufacturing it, and not really for people using teflon products. It's not unhealthy to wear a watch with radium dials, but you don't want to be the lady who painted said dial
The problem is that it's so inert, it becomes impossible to remove from a contaminated environment or particularly a person's blood stream.
The amount that inevitably gets caught in your blood will just stay in your body forever, settling down in a critical organ like your brain or kidneys and giving you cancer or some other horrible problem.
We're running on theory alone here, but if thats true, then its too inert to be reabsorbed by your kidneys and therefore would pass into your urine and leave your body that way. Also how is it causing cancer if it's inert?
Much more in depth NIH article (go to section 3)
We are definitely NOT in theory territory here, there have been studies and reports of people directly suffering from the effects of PFAS, what we are not clear on is how it's interacting with our bodies.
Leaded gasoline wasn't fully phased out in the US until 1996, not sure about other countries. The millennial age bracket starts somewhere around the birth year 1982.
Fun fact: it's still used in piston aircraft.
Edit: sorry, that's not very fun.
NASCAR didn't switch to unleaded gasoline until 2007, and test scores went up in the areas surrounding their racetracks in the following years.
Apparently you can still buy leaded race fuels in the US today, wtf? Ban that shit. I was watching a video yesterday of someone why brought their time-attack racecar to Australia and they had to retune it for unleaded because leaded is banned there. I was blown away they were using leaded fuel in the first place.
This made me reconsider the foundations of the high crime rates in the neighborhoods nearest the very busy small plane airport in my home town.
Oh it definitely happens. I'm a young millennial and I have a friend my age who deals with mental issues because he ate lead paint leftover in their old house as a child. Lead was so prevalent at one point that getting rid of it all isn't as simple as flipping a switch.
Edit: [wasn't -> isn't] There does not in fact exist a switch that we can now flip to remove lead. Thanks @Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works.
Lead paint was still on the stuff we grew up in. Lead in the plumbing used in our schools, too.
While it wasn't commonplace in gas in the early 80s, it was still prevalent on a lot of long lasting products, and of course, paint.
I was in my early teens in the 90s when leaded gas was finally banned in the US. Furthermore, lead doesn't degrade, only slowly disperse. People born in the early 80s still got a hefty dose of lead. Yay us.
At least we dodged asbestos insulation, and only have to deal with it in old construction when we tear down the walls.
Nanostructures? Sheeit, wait until we get to responding to ourselves from another federated service! Wait, what were we talking about?
My mother (a boomer) died of an asbestos cancer (one of the better kinds of asbestos deaths) because her mother used asbestos heat spreaders on the stove
Those were asbestos cloth and they slowly disintegrated during use (between the stove and the pans) putting asbestos fibres into the air
The reality is that all 3 are full of micro plastics. And there’s some overlap in the Teflon lead generation. And non stick material is still not all that great.
Really, the only problem we’ve solved kinda is lead, unless you’re poor.
To be fair most people still cook with teflon, albeit PFOA-free, so we're still actively consuming teflon. And the worst part? You need to use plastic cooking-utensils with teflon pans. And as plastic utensils wear down they shed lots of microplastics straight into your food.
I'm usually very sceptical about things that "might supposedly" be bad for you, but even I refuse to buy any teflon pan and/or plastic cooking utensils. I now use cast iron with steel utensils :D
With how much reddit and lemmy suck up to nuclear energie, I dont doubt that our ground water will be fully poluted with nuclear waste soon
Trust me, Microplastics boy. You're full of those other things too.
Also all three of you are likely full of shit .... because your colons are full of cancerous polyps.
Fun fact, Teflon was invented by dupont. And the Wikipedia page is fairly clear on the safety of Teflon being in question. The real concern is who did Dupont pay off to make Teflon a thing?
Teflon is safe in typical use cases.
Here's a great video from Adam Ragusea: https://youtu.be/5FNNKhVoUu8?si=vXrfusnsGzvXErfn
The real issue is PFAS or PFOA, which are used to help bind Teflon, or other nonstick polymers, to other surfaces. This was all done in the early 1900s, and the likelihood of some conspiracy is low. Especially since they didn't (and literally couldn't) know the long term effects of "forever chemicals".
The real conspiratorial behavior comes AFTER the knowledge that PFAS or PFOA are harmful, and what actions, or inactions, of the companies and government are taken.
Remember there are people in our government (not all, but enough) who actively want LESS government: less regulation, less taxation, leas oversight. AND there are a vast quantity of companies that want the very same thing: unfettered freedom to do whatever the fuck they want, without consequence.
And that handful of government employees will easily be bribed or influenced by special interest lobby groups, businesses, "think tanks", etc. (funded and/or founded by the aforementioned businesses).
_
Getting a NEW Teflon pan is less than ideal, and should be avoided. You can keep the one you have, and keep using it until the nonstick properties degrade, then toss it.
A great video about this from MinuteFood: https://youtu.be/R1hbV3EzOD4?si=bQZAQsRWLgX9dyJX
And the associated MinuteEarth video: https://youtu.be/H3aFzQdWQTg?si=bVIBp4tm_uLi7ScQ
Just cook with stainless steel, learn to cook by mixing butter and olive oil, treating the pan right and it'll act just like teflon
Just don't throw away your Teflon pan "because". It's totally okay to use it on normal use cases. But absolutely avoid buying a new one when the time comes.
A small correction of the chemical nature, Teflon is PTFE (Polytetrafluoroethylene), which belongs to the class PFAS (Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances).
PFOA (Perfluorooctanoic acid) also belongs to the same class, PFAS.
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https://youtu.be/R1hbV3EzOD4?si=bQZAQsRWLgX9dyJX
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Leaded addons for fuel was invented by the same guy who invented freon as pressure gas in aerosols and airco making a hole in the ozon layer. He fucked us twice
I blame badly written movie dialogue always talking about pumping people full of lead 😄
Also known as PTFE, it is a plastic substance that has an insanely low coefficient of friction and is thus incredibly fucking useful for so many things. And much like the last weirdly good at doing everything substance (asbestos) it turns out it really should not have been put in everything, but its probably not quite as bad as asbestos.
And Teflon really isn't the issue, it's the binding PFAS or PFOA that causes health issues.
PFOA was the surfactant that was used to keep Teflon in an emulsion during coating processes. It was replaced in the 2000s with an alternate product branded GenX that was supposed to be safer, but in actuality ended up being more toxic than PFOA.
In either case, the main exposure risk is to those surfactant chemicals, typically due to groundwater contamination near a plant or via occupational exposure. Once in a finished coating, Teflon itself is essentially inert unless you heat it up several hundred degrees, so existing nonstick pans and other finished products don't pose too much risk.
Once in a finished coating, Teflon itself is essentially inert unless you heat it up several hundred degrees
Thank goodness it isn't used in cookware! 😬
Having kept birds in the past, I don't believe it's truly safe to cook with. People using it as directed have had their birds drop dead from it because their lungs are so much more sensitive. If it's enough to affect them it's very possible it's just subacute in humans in the short term but causes health problems long term.
Also, it's plastic. You can't convince me it's great to cook on top of that. Plus it doesn't last the way stainless steel or cast iron does, you're basically buying it to throw away in a couple of years.
Don't get me wrong, I kept birds as well and I'm aware of the dangers of overheating Teflon pans around them -- the same issues arise with 3D printers with PTFE-lined heatbreaks, by the by -- but with some caution, in common cooking use those pans aren't going to see the sorts of temperatures required to start decomposing the coating. Once it starts to wear out, certainly I'd say dump the Teflon cookware and get some stainless and/or cast-iron replacements, but a knee-jerk overreaction to throw out a sound pan is only going to make the plastic waste problem worse in the short term. Plastic the stuff may be, but (again, unless heated quite a bit) it's one of the least chemically-reactive substances we know of.
Pans on a stove can easily reach sufficient temperatures to break down the Teflon, especially when empty or left unattended. You don’t have to have a ridiculously high temperature oven for it to be a risk. If you’ve ever had coconut oil or olive oil smoke in your pan then you’ve probably exceeded the recommended use temperature for Teflon.
Scroll back up to my earlier comment.
I said "typical use cases". Your examples aren't typical.
Also, why the fuck you cooking oil that hot in a nonstick?