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Elon Musk seen as working counter to U.S. interests in dealings with Russia, China

https://youtu.be/SK2eKWk_SkQ?si=VQ9apt5LM4f_oLtp

Elon Musk's financial interests put him in a position of having his own personal foreign policy, but new reporting shows that whether it's manufacturing in C...

Elon Musk's financial interests put him in a position of having his own personal foreign policy, but new reporting shows that whether it's manufacturing in China or the Starlink network being used in Ukraine, Musk’s decisions can run counter to stated US policy.

109 comments

Blaiz0r

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This is why billionaires shouldn't exist they are treasonous

Lexam

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They should exist, but we are not utilizing them correctly. Once someone has reached a billion dollar networth then they are thrown a big party and then sacrificed to a valcono. I believe this would curb emissions and fix climate change.

Blaiz0r

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There was a native American tribe that every ten years had individuals return all personal wealth back to the tribe and the threw a big party, then start it all over again

doggle

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Maybe we just seize all their assets, nationalize them and make them start over with nothing. Call it new game +.

Corkyskog

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They just need to make a point system. The incredibly wealthy don't care about money itself, those are already just points to them. So once you get to say 100 M, you get a trophy saying you won capitalism. After that amount 99% is taxed, you get a penny on the dollar. But all of that taxed money gets you Capitalism points. Capitalism points have no real value and can only be exchanged/traded/gambled with other winners of capitalism. Those with most points will be published each month in the top 100. And the top 10 each year get the prestigous title if honorary economic leader. They can get a medal and a pat on the back by the president.

You can also donate extra money for more capitalism points at a 10:1 exchange rate to get people to play the game even harder and further drive down wealth.

(I believe there are slightly less than 10,000 people in the US who would currently get their capitalism trophy. There are >140,000 people worth more than $50M, is 100 to high?)

Oh and the 100M amount is pegged to minimum wage. Any increase to the capitalism cap has to be matched to the same percent increase to minimum wage.

Lexam

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But volcano!

ChillPenguin

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I agree, I like the volcano idea.

Ferris

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Wealth Piñata monetary policy

derpgon

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Polluting a volcano with a bag of shit isn't really green. I say we just bury them so they can at least be used as fertilizer.

malo

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You know what volcano is, right?

jonne

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Just too much power for one person. Even if they're not in charge of a global internet provider, your average billionaire can singlehandedly affect the lives of millions of people (employees, customers, bystanders) with no democratic oversight at all. It's just not something that should exist.

zephyreks

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China seems to do a pretty good job of keeping their billionaires in check. Maybe we should take notes?

gnuhaut

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You: Want to abolish billionaires because they do not support the war enough.

Me: Want to abolish billionaires because they exploit and oppress the working class.

We are not the same.

dumdum666

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I want to abolish them because of both - checkmate

gnuhaut

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Patsoc detected.

dumdum666

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Please enlighten me what a Patsoc is - I am really curious.

gnuhaut

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"Patriotic socialist", someone who claims to be a champion of the working class, but is actually more of nationalist. They only care about the working class of a certain nationality or racial group, and are generally bigoted in their view towards marginalized groups. Real socialists are internationalist. You wanting to get rid of Musk, because he's not sufficiently gung-ho about a war fought between capitalists on the back of workers, implies you consider the national interest more important than the lives of workers. This is anti-worker class collaborator shit, which is what patsocs are really.

dumdum666

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What the fuck are you even talking about? Russia is throwing thousands of „working class“ lives away, since it wants to expand its territory in aggressive moves since decades. They are forcing Ukraine to defend itself and yes, those are also working class people.

So you, as a good socialist, are probably on the barricades because of this unprovoked attack on the Ukrainian working class. How are you fighting to defend them from getting killed? Please don’t answer something in the likes of „Ukraine should give up“ because then everyone would only see that you are actually advocating the Murder of the Ukrainian people.

Varixable

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Lol what the fuck is this? "You're an enemy of the working class because you don't support Elon Musk!"

This is some brain worm shit my dude.

Blaiz0r

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Well you've jumped to conclusions there, I'm not talking about the war but Billionaires in general and their respective countries in general.

Billionaires have too much power, live outside the existing system of government and laws, gained their money and power through exploitation and in general are undemocratic.

So I agree with your second statement, but not the first

s20

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What the hell? Look, man, I hate the guy but he's remarkably consistent: he works for his interests. Even when he does dumbshit things like buy Twitter, the thinks he's operating in his interests.

He's not complicated. He's a self absorbed piece of shit. That's really all you ever need to know about the fucker.

dingus

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"Elon desperately wants the world to be saved. But only if he can be the one to save it," Altman added.

From an interview with Sam Altman. It's grandoise narcissism, plain and simple.

RememberTheApollo_

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He is the main character.

vzq

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But he’s also a contrarian asshole.

dRLY

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Which he is also pretty consistent about. Yet somehow these children's cartoon evil/greedy businessmen are just handed power and trusted by such a shocking amount of people. It is kind of impressive in a "we're fucked" kind of way.

dangblingus

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He bought Twitter WITH $22B OF SAUDI MONEY. Should tell you everything you need to know about the purchase, the motivation, and why he's "doing so badly" with it.

Burn_The_Right

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He's juggling fire. His money can only do so much to protect him if he makes enough mistakes fucking with these dangerous governments.

taladar

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I disagree. Every other billionaire out there also has a shared interest in governments leaving the super-rich alone and not punishing them. That is a powerful lobby.

Burn_The_Right

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Permanently Deleted

BrokebackHampton

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One of the reasons billionaires managed to gather so much power and influence in our current system is because they are more coordinated and way better at class warfare than us workers.

I'd say that and the obvious mind-boggling amounts of hoarded wealth are the two main ones. And never forget those billions are, for the most part, stolen from workers through wage theft, which circles back to billionaires waging class war on us.

taladar

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In a sense it is unavoidable. Few individuals, each wielding vast amounts of power, will always have an easier time coordinating their efforts than many, many individuals each wielding a tiny bit of power since coordination has a quadratic complexity (each person has to coordinate with every other person in their respective group).

bennieandthez

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Uh they are not, thats why theyre literally called OLIGARCHIES.

And it's not only Russia that is an oligarchy...

cantstopthesignal

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Very dumb to position oneself against the geopolitical interests of the United States while living there.

Nerrad

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He doesn't live in the U.S. any more. He moved to Texas.

psycho_driver

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Great Republic of Texakkistan

arc

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He posted the other day about being proud American etc. and yet he's actively giving comfort to hostile adversaries like Russia and screwing US allies. I think if I were the US federal government I wouldn't touch SpaceX or Starlink with a shitty stick given the mercurial, manchild in charge of them with his own agenda.

zik

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A proud American who takes money from the US military to provide Starlink service to the military in Ukraine and then deliberately defeats US military interests there when it comes to the pinch. There's a word for that - a couple actually. Traitor. Treasonous.

zephyreks

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Did Musk take direct US military funding prior to those incidents in Ukraine?

People seem to want state control in a capitalist economy. That's just not really how capitalism works.

zik

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Yes, he did. He was paid by the US government for it.

seejur

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Can you link the proof? I am pretty certain he did indeed take US money, but I am unsure about the timeline between the money grant and the Ukrainian attack on the Russian fleet.

Honytawk

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Here is one of them: https://www.techtimes.com/articles/279224/20220816/starlink-militarization-spacex-awarded-air-force-million-dollar-contract.htm

That was back in 2022, well before the Ukrainian attack on the Russian fleet that was countered by Elmos policies.

some_guy

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It'll be interesting to see how much the US invests in his companies post Twitter shit show.

hydrospanner

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There's an interesting thought.

While there's no doubt the US government could withstand any difficulty inflicted on it by Musk's corporate empire, would the foot shot to their own efforts be worth it to sever ties with Musk?

FederatedSaint

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Yes

Corkyskog

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How is it a shot to the foot? Just install a new CEO or privatize SpaceX. Ford is going to eat Teslas lunch in a few years (maybe GM too if they stop being idiotic about car play) so I am not all too worried about Teslas value to the consumer.

arc

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Slightly OT but I think Ford's chance to beat Tesla has flown out the window. Ford is partially withdrawing from Europe - it might linger on selling commercial vans & tractors but as a consumer brand they're nearly gone. GM has pulled out of Europe (and China). GM sold it's European Opel operation to Stellantis. There is talk of GM trying to enter Europe with EVs but we'll see.

Anyway the point is they both kind of blew it and are retreating to their domestic market, probably hoping they can cling on there, weather the storm and come back later. I think Tesla has taken over as the dominant auto maker and it's unlikely to change unless Elon does something spectacularly dumb or drops dead.

Corkyskog

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Tesla doesn't even have the production capacity to satisfy domestic markets. By 2025 Tesla plans to up their capacity to 2 Million cars a year, meanwhile Ford alone should be puming out around that amount of vehicles, and they are more affordable. And that doesn't even bring in GM or any other car company.

Unless they change their plans and grow production dramatically, Teslas doesn't have the capacity. They are only 10% of the global market and most of their competitors have just gotten started. And China is rapidly starting to export cars to the EU, to the point where they are considering raising tariffs even higher.

By 2030, China is projected to be a third of the global market. So if we are talking internationally I think Tesla needs to worry about companies like BYD, NIO, GAC, etc. I mean BYD is set to beat Tesla in production and sales very soon already.

arc

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This is gilding the lily. Ford and GM know they are screwed and are adopting a defensive posture in the hopes of recovery. Maybe they perceive retreat as a way to moneyball their resources - wait for the EU carnage to subside and step back in. But thinking that this is coming from a position of strength though is a nonsense. Ford and GM are are fucked in Europe, and China and they're getting out. I haven't seen any sign the same applies to Tesla.

Corkyskog

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I guess my point is more about Tesla and less about GM and Ford, come 2025 and beyond. Tesla doesn't have the production capacity, nor do they seem to have the plans to ramp up capacity in the near future to have any chance to have a huge share of the global EV market. Chinese companies are ramping up faster, VW also has a huge planned production that I am sure will help satisfy European demand.

Unless Tesla makes plans to ramp up way faster than they have currently stated, their best bet would be to make better cars and just compete in the high end premium market. But that would take Musk to admit that his cars aren't up to par to premium cars to make the necessary changes to quality to compete. I don't see that happening.

Blursty

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Giving comfort is preventing nuclear war? Comfort me up then!

This is funny.

krolden

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pretty sure that vid is fake do you have the entire interview? i cant find it

ShaggySnacks

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Remember folks, the rich only care about one thing and one thing only, getting richer. A bunch of these shit heads got together and started actively planning on overthrowing the US government because the election of FDR was going to affect their interests.

The Business Plot

chiliedogg

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Prescott Bush (the father of George and grandfather of W) was their liaison with the Nazis.

Rmcc73

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Smedley Darlington Butler, there is a great Behind the Bastards about him

exploding_whale

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The irony of this is FDR wasn't exactly lacking in wealth or at least access to it at any point in his life.

lanbanger

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Then he'll have to be sanctioned. Which would be a shame.

Noerttipertti

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Sanctioned or...

Dramatic pause

"Sanctioned"?

snake

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I just wish he’d be sectioned.

PipedLinkBot

•

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LucidNightmare

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Shocking. Truly shocking.

Tosti

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Permanently Deleted

mwguy

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Musk is South African. We should expect his loyalties to reflect his home country more than the US.

reverendsteveii

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What good does this really do south africa though? Id more expect his loyalty to be to himself and his own profit than any country regardless of where he's native.

mwguy

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South Africa is the S in BRICS.

reverendsteveii

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Okay.

HughJanus

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What exactly the fuck does any of this have to do with South Africa?

mwguy

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South Africa is much more friendly with Russia and China than is the US.

Asymptote

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Are you implying that the S in BRICS is somehow entrenched with the BRIC?

clutchmatic

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Tis a good time for Macarthism to return

sunbeam60

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Said no one ever, until you just did it right there.

As they say in Danish “talk about shooting sparrows with cannon-balls”.

Asymptote

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The past half century has been moving production out of the west and into China but it's somehow just bad when it's Musk?

Come on, this circle jerk is getting more retarded by the day.

fosforus

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Permanently Deleted

zephyreks

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Truly, the pinnacle of modern journalism: YouTube.

FiskFisk33

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...sometimes, absolutely!

Youtube is a video hosting platform, just saying a piece of news is hosted on youtube says exactly nothing about it's credibility.

Youtube did not create this video, if you want to say anything useful about its validity you'll have to be a bit more specific about the actual video itself or it's creators.

But I guess cheap pot shots make for easier upvotes.

stopthatgirl7

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A YouTube clip interviewing a New Yorker journalist from a news station’s official channel. 🤨

zephyreks

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The article in question: ❓

JudahBenHur

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I know dude what the fuck... I saw the "headline" and looked at the source. what in the real fuck

stopthatgirl7

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Yes, MSNBC’s YouTube channel posting clips from their TV programs is definitely not a valid news source 🙄

It’s wild how quickly some of y’all love to (smugly) dismiss things at a glance.

zephyreks

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Then maybe link the article itself? It's not that hard, guys.

stopthatgirl7

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An “article” of a TV interview. Ok, champ.

You have a lovely day.

zephyreks

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If the guy wrote an article, just link to an article 🤷‍♀️

zephyreks

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Like you can't even argue that this is at least a perspective from a foreign state. It's literally the thoughts of one guy.

stopthatgirl7

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“One guy” is a strange way to describe Ronan Farrow, who just did a huge New Yorker article on Elon Musk.

zephyreks

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Ah yes, because the New Yorker is a completely unbiased source of information instead of (as the name might suggest) a newspaper targeted at the New York elite.

stopthatgirl7

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🙄🙄🙄

FinallyDebunked

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it is really wonderful that someone truly wants peace to settle in my country

FederatedSaint

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How is aiding a murderous, aggressor regime to continue to launch missiles and kill kids "truly wanting peace?"

You are an Olympic mental gymnast.

FinallyDebunked

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It's not that simple, you know, ukr soldiers base their camps in inhabited places so after they ve been struck they could blame russians for killing innocent people, well don't hide behind your citizens then

Astroturfed

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Oh look a Russian tanky.

Honytawk

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The only person capable of settling peace is that dictator Putin just stopping their illegal invasion into a sovereign nation.

lilShalom

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No good deed goes unpunished.

FederatedSaint

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How is aiding a murderous, aggressor regime to continue to launch missiles and kill kids "a good deed?"

gnuhaut

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Elon Musk is a US interest. The US is a bunch of business interests in a trench coat, and they don't always agree on everything. Some want to do business with China, some want the Chinese competition destroyed, and some want to create tension so they can sell more weapons.

The idea that Musk is "counter" to US interests is wrong, he just represents a faction of the ruling class that's not on board with the (trade) war on China. Since it's not in the interest of the working class to have a US-China (trade) war, neither in the US nor anywhere really, he is inadvertently aligned with the interests of the majority of humanity on this one.

Dead_or_Alive

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I see, so it’s not in the working class interest to have a trade war with, checks notes… A genocidal authoritarian government whose stated aim is to subjugate a smaller Democratic neighbor. That same China who is allied with a war mongering mafia state and has aggressively targeted whole industries with intellectual theft, product dumping, and unfair trade practices which has hollowed out whole domestic industries and has been one of the leading causes of low wage growth.

It is now a terrible thing for workers, that the US is in a low intensity trade war which is decoupling it's economy from said genocidal power and rebuilding the industrial plant in North America. Reshoring millions of jobs and keeping the unemployment rate at historic lows despite increased interest rates.

It was a lot to unpack, I just wanted to make sure I understood that correctly.

gnuhaut

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You're just thinking of the worker aristocracy in the West, not the global working class, clearly. China has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty. And it's neat how you blame China for something done by your own ruling class. Furthermore, this trade war (not to mention a war war) will be terrible for workers everywhere. Do you think the billionaires are going to bail you out? No, they're going to squeeze workers even more to finance this conflict, and they'll tell you suffering is your patriotic duty.

And imagine thinking China is the genocidal one out of those two. The US has had a hand in so many genocides and has directly and indirectly killed millions in the last decades. If you compare this to what China has done recently they look like angels.

HuddaBudda

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Less Evil, is still evil.

Besides, it is not like people can't multitask, this isn't a zero sum game.

I can hate the fact that Americans don't have paid family leave, or sick leave, but we send billions to Israel because we are scared of other religions.

I can also hate China's policies on Uyghurs basically enslaving them and putting them in concentration camps.

nonsense_boyo

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The fact you choose to compare "Americans don't have paid family leave, or sick leave" or "scared of other religions" as one of its worst qualities already screams your biases. Why not include its actual atrocities? Why not evaulate the US on at least the same terms?

Honytawk

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That doesn't really change the point.

I can hate the US for running Guantanamo Bay and how the Chinese run their concentration camps.

I can hate the US for invading sovereign nations and setting up puppet states while also hating Russia for invading sovereign nations and blasting the world with propaganda.

It is not because the US is evil, that Russia or China aren't.

gnuhaut

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You're mad at Musk for this???

Musk has done so many terrible things. Treats his workers like shit, destroys the environment, platforms racists (he's a racist pos himself), false advertising, siphons government subsidies, scams investors (including pension funds, I don't particularly care about scamming venture capitalist and the like), lobbies against public transport and god knows what I forgot right now.

But oh no! He only supports the war effort up to a point, and he doesn't want to have a cold war with China. For once he's kinda reasonable, and for that the libs are calling him a traitor.

drewdarko

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We are calling him a traitor for having Starlink turned off in Ukraine to protect Russia from a counter attack.

krolden

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traitor to whom?

Honytawk

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The country he lives in, and the military that paid to have the service of his business to be used ... by the military.

krolden

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At most that is breach of contract. Definitely not traitorous.

FaceDeer

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Last I heard, he simply didn't turn it on when Ukraine asked him to, before the DoD had explicitly contracted him to support Ukraine's military. The narrative of him throwing a switch mid-attack and laughing maniacally as Ukrainian drones drifted helplessly to shore has been spreading like wildfire but that seems to be based on a quote from one guy who has since walked it back.

Is there some Fediverse equivalent to /r/enoughmuskspam? My feed is starting to get flooded with these five-minute-hates of Elon Musk and it's wearying.

drewdarko

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Nope, Starlink was already in use. Musk used his position as CEO of Starlink to cut off service to Ukraine. But only long enough to interrupt a counter attack on the Russian fleet. Once the opportunity had passed he had it turned back on.

His intentions are obvious.

FederatedSaint

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Sorry that learning that your hero is a piece of shit is wearying to you.

FaceDeer

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What is it with this complete lack of nuance surrounding things? Elon Musk is not my hero. He's a terrible human being, by everything I've read about him as a person. But just being a terrible human being doesn't mean that every negative rumor or clickbait headline that shows up about him must automatically be true.

Bill Cosby is a terrible human being, for example. Hey, I heard he eats kittens! Let's circulate that news, it must be true because Bill Cosby is awful.

mwguy

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Civilian space assets cannot be used for warfare or they become legitimate targets in a war. When the US commits to defending and replenishing starlink satellites lost in conflict I'll blame Musk for not enabling his network to be used for warfare.

Bytemeister

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In that case, he should also disable starlink for Russia.

mwguy

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I think it is source.

drewdarko

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The Ukraine military was already using starlink. Starlink agreed to provide their service to the Ukraine military as a US military contractor with the US paying the bill.

So they can do that because they have already done that.

The US has committed to defending and replenishing Starlink because they’ve been doing that by protecting the antennas and replacing them as they get attacked.

Again. Starlink already agreed to be used in Ukraine and at the time that Musk interrupted service to the Ukrainian military it had been in use for a long time.

Musk only interrupted service long enough to prevent the counter attack on Russia. Then agreed to turn it back on after the opportunity for a counter attack had passed.

Seems pretty obvious that Musk stepped in to help Russia as a traitor to the US.

mwguy

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If Congress declared war or maybe an Authorization for Use of Force (like Iraq/Afghanistan) it would be fair to consider him a traitor. Until then not really.

gnuhaut

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That's because you identify with the US empire, which is not, and never was, on your team. And neither was Musk.

Musk isn't even against the US empire, he just didn't want to escalate. The White House regularly does (not) do a thing because they don't want to escalate. They're all traitors to the US too, are they?

Treason is not wanting total war, got it.

drewdarko

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If Musk really wants to prevent escalation then he should help the US and it’s allies stop Russia from invading other countries as they have been doing for decades.

Russia is starting total war. Musk is helping them continue by preventing efforts to stop Russia.

gnuhaut

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help the US and it’s allies stop Russia from invading other countries as they have been doing for decades

Wait, you think the country that has by far done the most invasions should be supported to stop *checks notes* an invasion? This is like putting the fox in charge of the henhouse. And apparently by any means necessary too.

I wonder what would have happened if the US's whole Mediterranean fleet were destroyed thanks to Russian help during one of their "humanitarian interventions". I wonder if you were also moralizing about the need to start WW3 in those situations?

FederatedSaint

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Holy hell talk about a championship-level effort in whataboutism.

Your mental gymnastics are on fleek!

mrnotoriousman

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Yes, Russia should stop invading and get the fuck back to their own country. Whatever you want to whine about someone else doing is irrelevant. Russia invaded and can gtfo or die.

Honytawk

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Just because the US is doing illegal invasions of sovereign nations, doesn't mean Russia is allowed to.

stopthatgirl7

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We’re mad that one person could have this much power, especially because they’re a narcissistic man child who thinks he knows better than everyone else and is quickly becoming radicalized to the far right.