https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/10/meta-deletes-al-jazeera-presenters-profile-after-show-criticising-israel
Tip of the Iceberg episode investigated how Facebook targets Palestinian content related to Israel.
"Al Jazeera Arabic presenter Tamer Almisshal has had his Facebook profile deleted by Meta 24 hours after the programme Tip of the Iceberg aired an investigation into Meta’s censorship of Palestinian content titled The Locked Space.
The programme’s investigation, which aired on Friday, included admissions by Eric Barbing, former head of Israel’s cybersecurity apparatus, about his organisation’s effort to track Palestinian content according to criteria that included “liking” a photo of a Palestinian killed by Israeli forces."
Deplatforming journalists, or anyone, is a terrible thing to do.
The jokes people made on Twitter saying "I'm probably gonna be put on a list for retweeting this/liking this" was actual reality on FB?!
That is a current problem with Twitter as well:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/08/twitter-saudi-arabia-human-rights-abuses
Saudi authorities illegally requesting data from Twitter / flipping twitter employees to figure out who is posting opposing views. Some of which lead to arrests, torture, imprisonment, and death sentences.
Jared Kushner gave the Saudi's top secret intelligence information on SA dissidents in exchange for 2 billion....and then MBS had them all trapped in his Hotel to be interrogated, tortured, and likely killed. And now Trumps not even in power anymore and Elon gave them essentially the same thing Jared did. He should have stuck to ripping people off on PayPal, gd it.
It's reality on Twitter too. Their are whole industries tracking people and their ideologies and tying that to their identities. You just haven't pissed off the right group yet so you haven't found out which list you're on
I'm really, really tired of immediately denouncing Israel half the time people find out I'm Jewish. I'm not a fucking Israeli.
The Israeli government is really happy to rope you and all other Jewish people outside of Israel along though. And too many unfortunately play that role happily.
And too many unfortunately play that role happily.
See? This is what I mean. If I just announced that I was Jewish to someone like you, you'd make me justify it by denouncing Israel. I shouldn't have to do that. It should not be assumed that just because I'm a Jew, I support Israel. Frankly, that's a form of racism.
They're saying you should blame Israel for that, not random people trying to find out who's who
Why not blame both? Why should they be trying to find out who's who. If you found out someone was Turkish, would you immediately ask them if they supported Erdogan? If someone was Hungarian, would you try to find out if they supported Orban?
I don't know if you're an American, but how would you like it if, every time you met a non-American, you would have to announce that you don't support Trump because they're trying to "find out who's who?"
Yes, but do you have to justify yourself with half the Europeans you meet that you're not one of the Trump supporters?
how would you like it if, every time you met a non-American, you would have to announce that you don’t support Trump because they’re trying to “find out who’s who?”
This is already the case.
Isn't that how it works anyway?
Person A: "I am a [whatever]"
Person B: "What do you think of [some thing about "whatever" I've recently seen on TV, and is possibly the only thing I know about it]?"
Yeah, except in the case of Jews, it's "prove you're not a Zionist." So many times in my life. So many times. I have to prove I'm not a bad person because of something I can't control and was born as.
The Israeli government doesn't even represent all Israelis, let alone all Jews. Does represent the vast majority unfortunately
I dont mean you personally, but organizations that claim to represent the jewish people in various countries. For instance the American Jewish Committee that claims Jews critisizing Israel would be antisemites and tries to have the UN comittees dissolved that adress the human rights situation in Palestine. Or a bit larger but slightly more moderate the World Jewish Congress, that wants "to enhance solidarity among Jewish communities throughout the world and, recognizing the centrality of the State of Israel to contemporary Jewish identity, to strengthen the bonds of Jewish communities and Jews in the Diaspora with Israel"
These organizations claim to represent Jewish people around the world and that they would be in favor of Israel and support Israel, especially in face of criticism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jewish_Committee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Jewish_Congress
Sure, and white supremacists claim to represent all white people. They don't and no one should assume that just because you're white, you're a white supremacist.
Which i never did. You cannot deny the reality, that many Jewish people and organizations want to tie all Jewish people to Israel. It is the predominant view in the larger organizations, that are often recognized as spokespeople for the Jewish community in the respective country, continent or world.
I also find it wrong, that Israel is claiming to be representative of the Jewish people as a whole and having a lot of organized support for it. The voices to the contrary need to organize and make themselves heard.
And because of that, it's justified for people to constantly expect me to prove I have no allegiance to Israel? Bullshit. I should not have to prove I don't support apartheid just because I'm Jewish.
The issue is that both antiseminites and Zionists do want Jewish to mean Israeli. Same with being Israeli doesn't mean your Jewish or a Zionist
Nah, it a brilliant idea if you want to deflect criticism of Israel's right-wing government. What's stupid is believing it.
Oof. I just want to say as a Jew that is constantly trying to dispel the myth of Jewish media conspiracies, Zuck really isn't doing us any favors here.
And not all Jewish people support Israel! I have to assume many understand what's going on and side with Palestine.
What does "side with Palestine" mean? I side with the innocent people unjustly targeted in both Israel and Palestine, Israel has tolerated completely unjust treatment of Palestinians as well as done it as a state. But, groups like HAMAS also fire missiles at innocent civilians. Not to mention the many nations that have tried to unprovoked invade Israel. I'm not saying the Israeli government is innocent, it's not, but it's more complicated than just "siding with Palestine" being the right answer.
the many nations that have tried to unprovoked invade Israel
If we go far back in the history of the land... that list goes all the way to the paleolithic, and includes Israel itself. Some call it the "promised land", "holy land", and stuff like that, but in practice it looks more like the "cursed land".
If we go less far back, you'll find the point where the Roman's conquered the lands, kicked out all the Jews and renamed it to Palestina to spite them.
"Syria Palaestina", for extra spite.
If we go back, Israelites were going around offering cities to either join them or be exterminated... if we go forward, Crusaders gave no option to anyone... and so on.
It's a really bad patch of land, now with too many large religions trying to claim it, some even hoping for the Apocalypse to start there ASAP. Then you add the water shortages, and global warming is only going to make those worse.
It's complicated but the "but both sides" argument here is a little ridiculous. As if these are two nations battling each other on even footing. I'm sure you can see how silly that sounds.
I just meant siding with the people being forced out of their homes by Israel and placed under heavy surveillance while under constant threat of attack. I can't blame them for wanting to fight back.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/watch?v=AHfUm0Eda80
https://piped.video/watch?v=TTPvFIV_KzA
https://piped.video/watch?v=rPJGUk-L4qQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Yeah I agree, I side with the innocent people, not necessarily all the semi-state entities in Palestine.
I can't blame them for wanting to fight back.
With attacking innocent civilians I can.
Hamas is less "attacking innocent civilians" and more doesn't know where civilians will be since they are a poor and oppressed retaliation force. And the Iron Dome is pretty much impenetrable because Israel shoots anything down in their airspace.
There is a very important difference between aiming generally at the oppressive force which includes civilians who continue to replace Palestinians who've lived there for their whole lives and targeting civilians, children included. Palestine does the former, Israel does the latter.
Look, I don't actually think I'm going to convince you of anything, but I hope it gives you pause at least.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/watch?v=rPJGUk-L4qQ
https://piped.video/watch?v=kAm9-Cli6zs
https://piped.video/watch?v=WmdnLioi5r0
https://piped.video/watch?v=K8Xu_8Fw0l4
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Oh fuck off with this centrist nonsense.
Right now only one side has the power and is enforcing crimes against humanity against the other.
“American cops targeting black people is wrong, but a black person killed one cop once and that justifies the whole systematic suffering given to them” That’s basically what you sound like, a fucking moron.
The state of tribalism where when someone points out something isn't simplistic clear "good vs evil" all the time they are suddenly "Enlightened centrism"
The defence of the indefensible when someone tries to say both sides are to blame when only one side is engaged in state sanctioned crimes and the other lives in a ghetto surrounded by the others soldiers who routinely drive into the ghetto and kill them.
A state actor can be wrong and a terrorist group can be wrong??? There are more than 2 sides in life. Stop with the tankie logic where they support ISIS because it opposes the US.
I've been to Jewish gatherings where they had duplicates of some food products because half of them insisted on eating an Israeli brand and half of them refused to.
Yes, I'm one of them. But again, that's not the audience I'm worried about. I'm not worried about what the mainstream thinks of Jews, or Jews think of Jews, I am worried about the feedback loop between far right influencers who promote conspiracy theories and the disaffected media consumers that they radicalize into violence. This kind of behavior is fuel for a very dangerous cycle.
And not all the people that support Israel are Jewish nor are being paid by Jews to do so. Many understand that Hamas is a fascist regime and simply don't like fascism.
He's and asshole regardless of his lineage, not because of it. Just so you know someone else out here has a little grounding in reality.
Thanks, though unfortunately it's not people like yourself (who understand such things) that worry me.
i still wait for the day when i can criticize the state of israel and some of it's policies without getting branded as an antisemite.
And those of us Jews who don't support the state of Israel can't wait for the day we stop getting tied to it just because we're Jews. So there's problems both ways.
I'm also waiting on the day where Israel isn't marked for extermination by multiple countries/terrorist organizations.
You can. I do. As a Jew and as someone who has family living in Jerusalem who all hate Bibi and what he stands for. Fuck Bibi and fuck the Knesset. And fuck Zuck too.
If you're talking about Lemmy users, I think that day is already here. If you're talking about far right Zionists and ultraorthodox Jewish supremacists, then never. Between these two ends is where you find the mainstream gatekeepers of information like Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerburg, the Sulzburger family (who own the NYTimes), Jeffrey Bezos (who owns the Washington Post), etc.
I think the democratization of information is probably the most important step towards creating space to speak openly about human rights abuses anywhere, regardless of how powerful the people responsible are.
Well, not so much a conspiracy, but Israel is employing social media propaganda, similiar to the infamous russian "troll factories". It was often very well noticeable on reddit, as sometimes two different accounts posted the exact same comment with pro Israeli talking points. Their main target is facebook and other large plattforms though.
Any sources on any of that?
I often saw this parroted on Reddit, though without sources. What I didn’t see, is what you described as “very well noticeable” - and I used Reddit a lot.
Anytime I look up this stuff I can only find relevant information from obscure websites which don’t list any sources. This honestly does seem like a conspiracy.
First and third links clearly state that these students are volunteers, and also a fairly small amount of them. (Also doesn’t seem like trolling necessarily)
Second link seems promising, but it offers almost no details, and its source is HaAretz, an Israeli publication which I personally don’t trust (also the source article is behind a paywall).
Last link is about a private company and seems only slightly related.
Not really strong evidence of Israel running “Russian troll factories”.
Does it matter, whether the people are volunteers, paid or coerced? The fact stands that Israel is making a concerted effort to influence social media in their favor.
I find it a bit silly, that you want proper sources and then just say you don't trust a major Israeli newspaper without further explanation. Especially since the BBC deemed it credible as a source.
For the last link how is it "only slightly related?" It is a private company that is operating from Israel, run by ex-intelligence people, influencing elections world wide. This kind of things are not sold with a google add, but instead require extensive networks and contacts. It is implausible, that the company operated without the knowledge and approval of the Israeli government. Also the article states that the company was promoted on the website of the Israeli ministry of defense. Finally Israeli intelligence has proven competent in many activities around the globe, but in particular in regards to digital activities (stuxnet). There is no reason to belief that they wouldn't have picked up on one of their former employees running these kind of activities.
I doubt that Israel makes no effort to influence social media.
I just think the effort made isn’t very big, and with the presented evidence this seems true. I don’t feel like looking through them again to pinpoint where exactly but some of the articles you shared flat out admit Israel isn’t very good at shaping public opinion.
No.
The original comment in this subthread claimed Israel was running troll factories similar to Russia’s, and on a scale large enough for it to be noticeable on Reddit, while also claiming Reddit isn’t even the main focus of those trolls.
Point 1 basically goes to show that while Israel does attempt some social media influence, it appears to be at a far smaller scale then originally claimed.
In all honesty, I’d be surprised if there are many developed countries which don’t do this to some extent, so in my eyes singling out Israel in this case seems a bit weird.
Okay, I can see why that correction would maybe argue specifics against being 1:1 with Russian troll factories but even you just said the magic word: “similar to” which is obviously pretty loose, hence my distaste for the pedantics.
Overall, I agree though - most countries should be doing this just to counteract other countries doing this until we can start calling out ourselves for doing these things
change yourself, change the world and that
At this point it's a given that any nation state with an interest in PR has their online troll teams.
As a guy wholly descended from the peoples of the British Isles, I have a similar feeling, only in my case, it really is true that my people have trashed the world for their personal benefit.
Granted that the Irish side of my family was never entirely on board.
Meta are acting as an international agency curtailing journal8sm as it suits them. Using Meta "logic", they'd need to do the same for the Ukranian reporters, which we also would never condone.
Can people actually criticise Israel and get away with it? Hasn't been the case for the past decade or even more. This is hardly news.
I’ve found that you definitely can outside of the US. Growing up in Australia I was always taught the ‘both sides’ argument regarding Israel/Palestine, and I’ve literally never met a person who didn’t support a two-state solution. A Jewish family I grew up with were notoriously anti-Israel, specifically because Israel has given them bad names by committing atrocities in response to other atrocities. You might find a few right wing nutjobs that refuse to allow criticism of Israel, but generally they’re the ones that are ostracised by the majority.
Jewish families in America are anti-Israel too, but the US has the crazy Christians that need Israel for the second coming of Christ. So yeah, can't be critical of Israel in America because an old folk lore might come true.
This is pretty much it. My Jewish friends, with one exception who worked for the DOD, all draw a line between the Israeli gov and the people. I also think a lot of the high level blind support is because Israel is essentially America's "aircraft carrier" in the region and a valuable source of intelligence.
This saga won't be over till Boomers are out political post on both sides. Boomer generation are known not to negotiate on any issue, even of it benefits them
Even so, Al Jazeera is a notoriously unreliable and manipulative news outlet directly controlled by the Qatari state and partially responsible for much of the current disarray that the Arabian peninsula and North Africa are experiencing since over a decade by now. They're spewing out Qatari propaganda around the clock
Al Jazeera, especially the Arabic version, are well known to constantly spew lies about Israel.
I mean, it is literally Qatari state media, but I don't think that's really relevant to this specific issue.
However, this sounds more, or equally, about the journalist being removed for his coverage of Meta and their shady relationships with governments, specifically Israel in this instance.
Gab wouldn't deletes Al jazeera presenter's profile after showing criticising israel like Facebook did.
Meta is a private company and can do whatever it wants. Nothing to see here. Yea..go ahead down vote me
This is true, and the reason people need to stop using social media as their source for news.
When a company has sophisticated algorithms ment to only show you things that will get you engaged - you are not getting unbiased news. Add Meta's personal agendas on top of that and you get the shitshow that is facebook as a news source.
It can, but that doesnt mean ít's excused from criticism if it does something incredibly stupid and amoral.
Maybe people are finally starting to realize (although way too late) that handing over our "public" fora to private companies was a bad idea.
Helping war criminals cover up their crimes is illegal under most countries jurisdictions.
al jazeera is a wholy qatari owned propoganda mouthpiece for ismalic jihadis
... yea lol what?
Al Jazeera is Qatari, and so I don't go to them for content about Qatar in case there's a bias. However it's a pretty large organization and they do decent investigative work on stuff happening in South America, Africa, & Asia. New organizations pick topics they think the readers want to see, and so in Canada (and likely the US) there's usually little to no coverage on stuff in these parts of the world. Al Jazeera puts out decent investigative pieces and documentaries about these places.
TLDR: Al Jazeera isn't unbiased, and I avoid them on certain topics. However I DO go to them for other stuff. It's definitely not a "mouthpiece for ismalic jihadis [sic]"
What happened in this article is a bad thing:
had his Facebook profile deleted by Meta 24 hours after the programme Tip of the Iceberg aired an investigation into Meta’s censorship of Palestinian content
If that's such a problem, why'd they wait until this particular piece to deplatform and even then only the presenter's profile?
I'd want Der Sturmer and the KKK weekly to be deplatformed too, it is not journalism, it's racist propaganda, Al Jazeera is a Qatari owned mouthpiece for Islamic Jihadis
Let the arseholes bring their ideas into the light, so we know who they are and what they think.
Suppression is just a bad idea, and your naivete is terrifying.
The problem with deplatforming people is eventually your group is going to be the out group, and it's going to get deplatformed. Either we have freedom of expression for everybody or for nobody.
It's perfectly fine to deplatform selectively anyone who is trying to threaten, intimidate, harass others. You don't automatically get freedom of speech if you don't follow society's rules of coexistence between groups.
Lemmy and distributed systems like it are designed to prevent any one group to get deplatformed.
If a group of people are breaking laws, judges should sanction them. It shouldn't be up to corporations to remove their voice. If any one group can remove the voice of another group, no matter how righteously, without legal due process then we are just having a popularity contest.
If we deplatform whole communities, they will meet in the dark and we have no way to see who is a shady mf
As long as nothing illegal was written there, in my opinion, yes. But something against echo chambers should be done, I agree. But again, with banning them you encourage more echo chambers since there is no one thinking different than them in does dark not regulated chambers where they will flee to and find each other again. Hope that makes sense for you, generally problems don’t disappear by hiding symptoms, they just get out of sight anf come back worse than they where. I think, a better choice would be to invest in more (and better) education instead of ways to censor people.
It was ok when neonazis had no wide-ranging platform to organise in and were marginalized so they didn't have a way to consolidate into a community that makes them feel supported enough to do anything stupid because they were so fragmented. It was a good way to keep them under control without harsher measures.