Women have differing tastes. Men on the other hand all like the same.
Just like many women don't like extreme muscley figures many men don't like extreme hourglass figures.
Not all women are the same. Not all men are the same either. Claiming otherwise is sexist in both cases.
I feel like your strawman missed the point. No one claimed all men or women are the same, and literally no one said "Women have differing tastes. Men on the other hand all like the same." (or even tried to make that point)...
Did I misunderstand the post?
The point seemed to be that sexualization of men and women is different because not all women like the typical sexualized male man (as per the example given). That being different implies that men do all like the typical sexualized woman. Which is wrong.
(edit: just realized I did a reverse menandfemales)
I believe you did misunderstand the post.
The post is commenting that both men and women characters in comics are drawn for men. The male characters are aimed at the broad average male power fantasy, not a broad average sexualization that would appeal to women (the way the female characters are drawn for the broad average appeal of men).
When the woman in this comic strip draws Batman in a way that is sexually attractive to her (which is a similar broad strokes "catch as many women as possible" approach comics already use for men), the man in the comic became uncomfortable seeing it. The point is that if they drew male characters in comics with the same approach that they draw female characters, then generally men would feel as uncomfortable by it as women generally feel now.
the man in the comic became uncomfortable seeing it
I don't understand this point. The reason they're uncomfortable with it is because they're drawn in a sexualized manner? But even if all else is true, men in comics are already drawn in a way that many men think is attractive.
At least that's how I understand the point of the "power fantasy". Or do they mean literal physical strength with the "power fantasy"? Because the sexualization of men is definitely not limited to muscles.
Assuming the power fantasy is not just about physical strength, but also (or only) about extreme attractiveness (as perceived by men):
That is an idea that could be true. Are there statistics about how close the typical male hypersexualization is to women's interests compared to how close the typical female hypersexualization is to men's interests?
(as perceived by men)
I think this is the point. It's that both men and women are drawn in a way that attempts to appeal to men and less so what appeals to women (this is what men think ideal-woman looks like. This is what men think ideal-man looks like). This causes side-effects, galore.
Honestly dude you lost me when you started forcing a "ph" in the word fantasy over and over. Can't take this conversation seriously anymore. I've explained it for you, but alas I cannot understand it for you.
I'm not a native english speaker. I'm sorry if my spelling makes my comments difficult to read.
I think I mostly understood the point by now.
(I still don't get why the man would be uncomfortable with the alternative hypersexualization, since he already perceives the initial depiction as hypersexualized, but that doesn't seem to be central to the point anyways.)
You're implying that the average women isn't attracted to a Jason Mamoa or Chris Pratt -type gymbod. Although I know not every woman is attracted to big arms and abs, it seems that most do. Hell, even straight guys can see that these dudes are hot.
It didn't load for me either. It did load when I opened the post in my browser.
(I think the difference is that it adds ?format=webp in the browser.)
https://pictrs.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/65a49e6b-bf3c-4cf1-82ce-0f223ac8dadb.jpeg?format=webp
what are you quoting? are there more images in this post and my client's just showing me the first one?
It's not a real quote. It's the meaning I understood this post to imply.
(My interpretation was already challenged by @Crozekiel below.)
I think this comic really misses the point. It doesn't matter that most women don't want super muscely Chris Hemsworth, because that's what the media is telling young men everywhere that women want, and that's why it's problematic. If you aren't a ripped stud like Chris you aren't attractive, and you aren't even a Real Man ^TM. You see this all the time in incels who think all women want Chad.
Yeah, but this is about women in media, using men as an example.
If the male power fantasy is problematic, is not the topic of the comic. At least that is designed for men, but women don't get anything designed for them. That's the issue
Unpopular opinion in this thread, but I'm not convinced that women don't like guys who are in shape. It's not like Chris Hemsworth and Jason Mamoa are overly-muscled body builder types. I'm sure some women like femboys and dad-bods but that doesn't seem to be the majority
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Imo an important point to add is that sexualized characters aren't inherently bad. It's only bad when all or nearly all characters are sexualized. I like media with hot dudes, chicks, and everyhting else, but if all characters from 1 group are sexualized, then it gets weird
There was an Oglaf comic where the aliens noticed that the lobsteroid males looked like lobsters, while the lobsteroid women looked like hot human females in a sexy lobster suit. Same for the bee people, the bear people, the tree people. All the females looked like sexy humans.
They concluded that they had to team up and kill all the humans.
Exactly. Every character depiction is intentional. Sexualizing a character is not inherently bad, but it's clear what the point is when it's done.
If you are only sexualizing one type of character, then you are showing bias towards viewers. When this becomes the norm for most art in a society, it says that type of character (and the people it represents) is primarily there for sexual gratification. And when you do that to women, you create a culture where women are objectified as sex objects and little else is given value. It's inherently reducing a major population into nothing more than the desires of the dominant. I.e. oppression, and specifically in this case: the patriarchy.
It’s only bad when all or nearly all characters are sexualized.
I wouldn't even go that far. If you look into porn or porn games you'll see nearly every character sexualized in different ways depending on the intended audience. Romance novels are an example as well. And when the point of the media is titillation and sexual gratification; that's both good and expected.
It's only bad when all or nearly all characters are sexualized
I will not tolerate trash talk of Golden Wind
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I guess I should add the caveat that if the point is that they're supposed to be sexualized, it's a different situation. I have no idea what the golden wind is, but I assume that's part of it.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 5 is called Golden Wind, set in a highly exaggerated Italy in 2001.
All of these characters are men:
Pretty sure they’re just shitposting. Golden Wind is a reference to Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure, which is notorious for giving both men and women revealing, borderline high fashion clothes. And having lots of twinks.
Agree on your last sentence. I think one of the big problems is that women as a whole are disproportionately over sexualized and when they are sexualized, it tends to be a lot more blatant.
There absolutely are plenty of works of media where male and female characters are both sexualized. But there's also many where only the female characters are notably sexualized (or are so damn heavily sexualized that the sexualization of the male characters pales in comparison).
Also: Compare Chris Hemsworth (who usually stars in movies made primarily for men) with Robert Pattinson (Twilight, among other movies that he's less ashamed of).
But, let's not pretend that the Schwarzeneggers and Hemsworths (and male-targeted comic books) don't fuck up male body image. Sure it's a power fantasy, but for most men it's not attainable (in part because a lot of (if not most) of these action movie stars take PEDs ... I mean I guess normal people can take PEDs, too, but they shouldn't, it's quite unhealthy). Especially if we consider how much modern western society promotes behaviors that make people obese.
To go along with this comic we have to imagine that women are not attracted to fit men. And while it is true that some women like femboys or dadbods, that is not the majority. A significant number of straight women are attracted to guys with gym bods. If that's correct, then this wouldn't be a false equivalence since both genders are being sexualized unrealistically.
Instead of calling it a false equivalence, I think the point could be made more diplomatically by stating that two wrongs don't make a right.
Remember men, even if it was written by men for men, it has to also appeal to women. You are not allowed a space, and your sexuality need to be shamed.
I don't know if you deliberately or accidentally missed the point. Sure, things can be made for men, but when everything's made for men that's a problem.
There's also the fact that things being made for men is so normalized that nobody bats an eye if a video game or movie only has prominent male characters. Society often treats such works as if they were gender neutral. But if you create a work that's all women, society tends to treat it as "for women only", toxic masculinity often treats such works as a no-go for men, and many people are much more critical towards them.
It doesn't even have to be as blatant as all characters being the same gender. In general, society tends to default to male dominated everything and can often even view being 50/50 as "women are taking over".
Even on the internet, people tend to default to male pronouns. Or when giving a hypothetical, they tend to default to male characters.
All these kinda things lead up to media that also skews for men.
Is this your OC? If not, do you know the author? I like the style. TL;DR tell me where I find more of this please.
It's not the source of this comic, but the same artist that made it now makes a cute and fun to read college AU with the same characters that updates daily. It's been going for a decade now, so you'll have a lot of catching up to do, but if webcomics are your jam then I highly recommend. www.dumbingofage.com
Aa a man, something about this rubs me the wrong way. Not in the way their Dollarstore Comic Book Guy is uncomfortable because that's just fetish shit. I've become desensitized. It feels like they're making a lotta big swings that do not land. I wouldn't go so far as to say they've constructed a straw Man but this whole dialogue is set up in a way that doesn't seem authentic. Yes, I can agree that depictions of men in comic books is probably directed toward men but there's this assumption that it can't be serving multiple demographics.
I dunno. I probably won't think about this comic again after I leave this comment.