I actually learned how to use vi like 30 years ago and I had all the commands memorized. Then, nano came along. All the commands are at the bottom of the screen to remind you. It was just too tempting to pass up. However, I can't help but suspect that somewhere out there I might have left a vi session open because maybe I mistyped. I might have accidentally typed ;q! instead of :q! or something.
I get stressed out every time I need to jump into a server and check something and the only editor is vi. If I can I install nano straight away. Btw, :q! does nothing without pressing ESC first! Hehehe
I'm feeling old now... I've been using vi for 35y now and was happy when I got vi.exe on a dos box, as I hated edit. I still don't like 'simple' editors like nano/joe.
I used kill to get out of emacs when trying it agter 7y of vi usage, so I get the need to get mideval on editors users aren't used off. ;)
vi has always been my bane because I'm a sloppy typist. I can't count the number of files i had to fix because they ended with :q i like nano because the commands are ctrl + whatever. i don't make a mess.
I'm a sloppy typer as well, but somehow I notice my mistakes while I make them and correct them on the go.
What doesn't help is that the readout of the keyboard hasn't changed (got faster) since decades, which sometimes hinders me more then my sloppyness.
All the commands are at the bottom of the screen to remind you. It was just too tempting to pass up.
But you already had the Vi commands memorized. Did you forget them in the meantime?
Nano is pretty good if you're in a terminal. Used to use vim for ssh related stuff but since nano added syntax highlights I didn't go back.
Nano's only appeal is that it's beginner-friendly, but you already know Vim, so why switch?
Don't get it neither, vim is hard to start but once you're a bit familiar with it it's kind of time saving imo
I'm not even close to master it (just basics editing) and still find it quite better
Because if there's something that Nano does better than Vim, I'd love to know what it is so I can make use of it
Nano fits their workflow better than vim. Same for me.
What's your workflow?
Because if there’s something that Nano does better than Vim, I’d love to know what it is so I can make use of it
What nano does better: being more user friendly and showing you the most common actions in the bottom part of the editor. A tool to do quick edits without needing to learn specific keystrokes for everything you want to do.
@GreenMario@lemm.ee already knows Vim, though:
Used to use vim for ssh related stuff
That's why I asked:
Nano’s only appeal is that it’s beginner-friendly, but you already know Vim, so why switch?
Why would someone switch to a more user-friendly editor when they're already used to their current editor?
What does user-friendliness have to do with workflow?
I barely know Vim compared to a seasoned programmer. I can open copy save and input mode just fine. All I use it for is fucking with config files and light scripting really.
I did start with vim tho because I didn't know about nano and when I did it was bare bones. Today it has syntax highlights so that's a great thing.
I keep vim around though but nano is way better than it was when Ubuntu first came out so shouldn't be slept on. If you're gonna do actual programming yes pls use vim I beg you 😂 or better yet an IDE.
Micro exists. It's Nano with Lua plugins. Very robust and minimalist. No magic incantations. I actually use it to code simple stuff that I just don't want to wait a minute for VSCode to spin its wheels.
WTF. Why? I could maybe see someone preferring emacs over vim, but not nano. Maybe there are nano features I don't know about, but it just seems like Windows Notepad to me.
I normally just use VS Code with a VIM extension. Unless I'm ssh-ing into something, then I use vim.
My main problem with vim is that they use hjkl instead of jkl; , it doesn't make sense to me why they'd do that.
And my second problem is that I use my own custom keyboard layout instead of qwerty, so I'd have to remap all the keys. Why spend hours learning and then rebinding all the keys when I can instead play some Dota? /s
Been a vim user for decades but never used hjkl. Probably strongly correlated with the fact I'm non QWERTY as well (Dvorak). I just use the arrow keys combined with the jumps to start/end of lines/words or to characters.
You don't need to remap anything aside from hjkl as the keybindings are mostly mnemonic and not location based.
On Dvorak at least, ^C is so easy to press that it's great for switching modes, I never use Esc.
I find the more time you've spent in non-graphical shells, especially on low spec devices or laggy connections, the more you appreciate vim. Instead of pressing Del a bunch of times and having it overrun you can ct" to swap out that string. I even use vim keys in vscode, as my hands are so used to them.
My biggest complaint is logging into some legacy device that only has vi and not vim, when shortcuts like "dap" or "caw" don't work
Huh, I thought most keybindings where tied to the position of the keys, being vim "motions", as in how you move your fingers or something like that.
Maybe there are vim layouts for dvorak that I can use? Because I think I'd prefer to have the keybindings in the same place.
I use a dvorak-based layout personally, but spanish QWERTY at work. Some time ago I learned EMACS with qwerty, so when I switched to dvorak my muscle memory was ruined, even if I knew the keybindings. I wonder if it's worth it learning 2 keybindings to be able to switch layouts
Not really key position based, they're mostly things that match the letters like (i)nsert (a)fter (A)fter the whole line (d)elete (dd)elete a line (c)hange (C)hange rest of line.
Then the fancier ones like ct (c)hange(t)o which will remove the text from the cursor to the next character you hit. i.e. go to the open quote of a string, ct" replaces everything up to the end quote.
(c)hange(a)(w)ord will replace a word, (c)hange(a)(p)aragraph will replace a whole block... putting a number in front of the command will repeat it like 5dd to delete 5 lines.
I agree the muscle memory is a big thing but I use vim on both Dvorak and QWERTY (when I happen to be on site and not wanting to mess with changing keyboard layouts) and while I'm slower, it's just the ordinary slowness that comes with not using QWERTY very often these days. I think of the commands as being the letters, not their positions.
More to the point would be that if you're already an EMACS user maybe learning vim is not that important? Though it does tend to be more common to find some sort of vi on even minimal hardware than to find EMACS.
Strangely I use QWERTY on my phone and would find Dvorak odd for this purpose.
Edit: looks like ( c ) got turned into the copyright symbol thanks to some overeager parser
My main problem with vim is that they use hjkl instead of jkl; , it doesn't make sense to me why they'd do that.
With qwerty you can be sure of layout of the letters and numbers across languages.
Makes sense. Spanish keyboards have Ñ instead of semicolon, so it'd break. But I'm sure other things break in France, where they use AZERTY. So it's not that universal.
That makes me wonder, is there a way to get a keypress based on the position of the key, rather than the keycode? Would that be useful? Would assuming everyone is using a normal keyboard with letters in the same place even make sense? How would that interop with things like QMK?
I took the vim pill a few years ago and spent tons of time learning its shortcuts, trying out plugins, and forming strong opinions about my relationship with my text editor. It's a great tool, but I personally lost the plot somewhere down the line. I'm not sure that passion actually served me.
Remember to actually kill the process though, since that will only background/suspend it in most cases.
(Be sure to save the file though first, Vim creates a "swap" / recovery file but its best to not rely on that, use fg to re-open, then press escape and type :wq)
Followed by kill -9 %1 to actually kill the process, otherwise your terminal might complain or freeze up when you try to close it
