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Amazon CEO tells staff to work in office three days a week or look for another job

Amazon CEO tells staff ‘it’s probably not going to work out’ unless they visit office three days a week

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/aug/29/amazon-ceo-staff-work-in-office-job-workers

Almost 30,000 workers signed petition against return-to-office mandate in May

Amazon CEO tells staff ‘it’s probably not going to work out’ unless they visit office three days a week

Amazon CEO tells staff to work in office three days a week or look for another job::Almost 30,000 workers signed petition against return-to-office mandate in May

70 comments

kescusay

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Someone make this make sense.

I'm a software developer. I need three things in order to do every aspect of my job on a day-to-day basis:

A computer
An internet connection
Coffee

Most of my coworkers are in other states and even other countries. The closest physical office is an hour away, and has 0% of the people I work with most of the time. If I go to the office, it's for one of only two possible reasons: To attend a team event where others have flown in, or to see a couple very specific coworkers who it's helpful to see in person, but I only have a reason to interact with them once every few months.

At home I have a comfortable desk to work at, a door I can close, my "coding music" playlist, and no one breathing down my neck or asking me for anything. I'm productive, I'm happy, and when my work day is done, I can just step out of my little office area and... I'm home. And on days when I have no meetings, I can take my laptop to a coffee shop and work in an ambiance I find relaxing and fun.

Presumably, Amazon's developers feel the same. And especially after almost three years away from the office and 100% remote hiring, many of their teams consist of people who don't live anywhere near an Amazon office.

So... Why in the everloving fuck would Amazon want to do this?!?

epyon22

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Easy way to thin your workforce while and an easy scapegoat for future issues.

fakeanatomydoctor

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They probably think it's cheaper to hire new workers and push old ones out.

Sheltac

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They are probably right, unfortunately.

CmdrShepard

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So... Why in the everloving fuck would Amazon want to do this?!?

My gut feeling is that the economy is sluggish and companies like Amazon and Zoom want to force this now because they know they'll shed employees without having to announce layoffs and hurt their stock price.

TheFrogThatFlies

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Warning: conspiracy theory incoming. Imagine you are an investor, one of those big guns that are on top of a few big companies. You have a lot of money, but because you're smart you don't invest it all in tech companies. Some of it goes to, let's say, real estate. Now imagine what would happen to that money if companies no longer needed offices, those huge and expensive offices... Also, you invest in an overseas company. There's lots of profit there because you pay cheap to your employees. Now those employees can start working directly to US companies for cheaper than in US, but still more than is paid in that country. Now if want people working for you, then you need to pay more than these remote workers receive. There goes your extra profit And the way this happened really shows that companies were really hoping to change the way of working after COVID, but someone didn't allow that.

thejml

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They probably don’t want the office space they’re paying leases for to be empty. At least I’m pretty sure that’s most of why the company I work for settled on 3-2. They wanted everyone in 5 days a week and then they started to lose some fairly impactful people and ratcheted back their stance.

They claim it’s for “community” and “meetings” and “ease of collaboration”. But I think they just don’t want to look bad.

SendMePhotos

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Almost sounds like the perfect setting for a timed logic bomb

AbsolutelyNotCats

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At least this CEO is not as prehistoric as Zoom one lol.

Anyways, if i worked for Amazon I would be looking for another job ASAP, i value my time a lot.

AllonzeeLV

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I'm actually glad the veil has lifted and the owners are no longer trying to obfuscate their sociopathy behind jargon and buzz terms. They feel they've gained enough hard power to finally say what they mean: dance like good little wage slaves, or we'll throw you away.

Maybe some of these true believers who always thought they were one of the owner class's favorite little wage slaves will finally understand what they are under this rigged economy: expendable livestock.

Probably not most, but if we can chip away at any of the self-hating house peasants that defend their masters against their own interests, that's progress. The owners are the common enemy, and they are small in numbers, but they maintain power though their army of true believer deluded suckers dumb enough to believe their doting service will get them into the little club one day.

Without that legion of sucker peasants, the owners become vulnerable. Keep antagonizing your livestock, Assholes. Fuck around out of ego and find out, pretty please.

skymtf

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I love how covid is growing and we are still with this back to the office bullshit.

jantin

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I'm starting to think this is according to plan. Tinfoil hat of course and a heavy one at that... But in the long-ish run reducing life expectancy will bring massive savings on whatever remains of pension systems and in the care industry.

NocturnalMorning

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Are you brain dead?

Creamatine

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He did say tin foil hat

jantin

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No, I just like delusional conspiracy theories about diabolic capitalists. A kind of a competition if the reality can out-insane off-the-rails tinfoil. For now I don't feel like I'm winning.

NocturnalMorning

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But, capitalists are bad enough without spreading fake conspiracy theories.

alsiniz

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I love this delusion. Drama. Theatrics. Conspiracies. It’s giving e n t e r t a i n m e n t.

Ataraxia

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They're already having issues with the hiring pool. Killing the rest off seems very idiotic. But these businesses are so short sighted I'm sure they are focused on other reasons like domination.

reddig33

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Ok. Bye then.

Aabbcc

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It'd be nice to get severance tho

pete

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There is no severance if you just dont show up to work.

Jestzer

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sigh

CEOs, I can assure you that the people who aren’t doing work from home aren’t doing any more work in person.

And what really sucks is this just the beginning. Soon enough, they’ll all demand everybody work in-person 5 days a week for the same supposed reasons.

GildedGriffon

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The work-supervision to prevent slackers thing is only part of the problem, and pretty small.

The biggest issue is the huge amount of money these companies pay for real estate, and how much the commercial real estate market means to the overall economy.

All of this is just sabre-rattling in an attempt to return to the pre-covid status quo, while these companies will soon be shedding their corporate office spaces to reduce their operating costs.

partial_accumen

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The work-supervision to prevent slackers thing is only part of the problem, and pretty small.

If finding out if your employee is productive requires you staring at them all day then you're already a poor manager. An employee can be pounding on a keyboard all day looking productive and producing nothing, but thats the limit of the "butts in seats" method of management oversight. How about create KPIs that you can measure the actual output of an employee. Give them autonomy to get their job done with the resources they need with the time they need in whatever way works best for that employee. Create an environment that is most suited to that employee's ideal productive conditions. Each employee is different. Why are you treating them all the same? For some that maybe an office they commute to everyday, or many others its in their own home where they are comfortable and not being distracted by wandering co-workers.

Creating conditions that the employee likes not only increase productivity, but also employee retention. Employee turnover is very expensive to an organization, and losing top talent even more so. Management needs to check their ego at the door, and do what is best for their employee's needs. That is how you get the best employees, keep them, and get the most productivity out of them. Oh, also pay them more than your competitors will! Its not rocket science.

redhydride

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Yeah I think this is the main driver here. Real estate prices will plummet as they sell these spaces and it will reverberate throughout the economy

NathanielThomas

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Why do people want their staff to be extremely unproductive and do less work by coming into an office?

SamboT

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I don't know but there is a commercial property bubble right now. I've heard speculation that said investors want their commercial property loans to stay far away from default. They need commercial property to be worth more because loans are in danger of not being repaid.

https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/commercial-real-estate-investors-banks-buckle-up-perfect-property-storm-2023-07-30/

AlecSadler

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I've also heard that these megacorps get huge tax breaks by promising to bring an amount of foot traffic to the area which is supposed to bolster local businesses.

Not sure if true, but if it is, I wouldn't bat an eye.

SamboT

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I've heard similar guesses that executives or whoever... invest in businesses that benefit from their employees foot traffic. Not sure either.

irotsoma

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This plus management needs to justify its existence. Workers have proven they can be productive without micromanagement, which means management is a waste of money. Every worker knows that, but they're afraid of shareholders deciding they want companies to automate management instead of laying off workers to increase profit. And if that happens, it's just a few small leaps to cutting the biggest waste of money of all, CEOs.

SamboT

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Lol I don't know about all that.

astronaut_sloth

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There's a bit of truth to that. Honestly, leadership via email/chat is hard. Bad managers can't micromanage and pretend to know what's going on, so they get screwed. Good managers (which I promise do exist) have a hard time really getting their team to excel and know what the real problems are that they can address and fix. So, every team ends up in a range of mediocrity either rising from not having to deal with useless managers or not able to reach their full potential with good managers.

Is that bad? Eh, probably not.

SamboT

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Bad managers are a waste of resources just like bad front line employees are a waste of resources. Any role that has less oversight has more potential for abuse that is harder for the company to recognize. It's probably easier to notice an underperforming employee in person than it is virtually.

The longer term effect on growth of talent and teams is probably still largely unknown.

FlyingSquid

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I work a hybrid schedule. I am definitely much more productive at home where I'm comfortable than I am at the office where my chair is shitty and the AC is too cold and there's a lot of annoying and distracting noise and chatter than I can only (not totally) escape with noise cancelling headphones and loud music.

RadicalCandour

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Control.

noxy

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Go fuck yourself, Andy Jassy. I hope your name becomes as reviled as the scumbag you succeeded.

Textbook example of "the rules are for thee, not for me".

qfe0

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Unionize

archomrade

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I cannot upvote this one enough.

DrQuint

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or look for another job

A threat.

Therefore hostile termination.

Therefore severance.

Amazon CEO is a dumbass and literally just lost this fight.

TurboLag

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I doubt it's not carefully worded in corporate speak. It's much more likely just The Guardian's sensationalism. Amazon have an army of HR people; they wouldn't make such basic mistakes.

krakenx

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Mandatory arbitration says that there is no fight. Laws simply don't apply to companies anymore when you can't try your case in a real courtroom.

FlyingSquid

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Yeah, if I worked for Amazon, I'd say, "no. Now fire me, assholes. Go ahead."

Rednax

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What exactly is the threat?

If I read the article correctly, the CEO's statement is effectively saying that employees who refuse to work according to the companies policy, may be fired.

While I agree that it is bad policy, I don't see how this is unlawful policy, nor do I see how enforcing the policy is a threat.

XTornado

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As far as I saw the other places had different wording, "it is not going to work out" or something like this instead of look for another job

ipkpjersi

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Where I live the wording doesn't matter, what matters if you signed an employment contract that states your job is remote, or even a lack of a mention of an office location where you are expected to perform work with an assumption (like the job posting specifying) that the job is remote then it's enough for the job to be considered a remote job. If the employer then tries to alter that without trying to give you some form of compensation, it's considered a constructive dismissal and you'd be eligible for employment insurance.

RadicalCandour

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Man, can you imagine what it must be like to be a recruiter for Amazon?

pete

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I def can. No one is hiring this is a layoff. If you're a recruiter and still there you're keeping your mouth shut, pretending to work in something and showing up threevdays a week

lambda

•

How so?

nrezcm

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This measure is probably aimed towards their AWS staff or related personnel. Recruiters for those types of spots are going to have a hard time finding good/qualified people for those kinds of jobs. So what should be a normally slam dunk job (Amazon Tech Recruiter) is likely going to be much harder. Plus... you know those recruiters now have to show up to the office 3x a week so there's that too.

lambda

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That makes more sense. I didn't understand the person I was replying to. Whether they meant it would be easier or harder.

vasametropolis

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It's employee hostile so their job is almost impossible.

Every employee should hold the line - if they fire you all they're fucked.

atticus88th

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Why do any of these people continue to work there under such deplorable conditions? I understand the warehouse workers dont have other opportunities and for many its the only employer where they live. But damn, Amazon treats its tech workers like shit and continues to make bad decisions day after day that only benefit those at the top.

NormandyEssex

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Lots of money

ChlorineAddict

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With mortgages to match.

devfuuu

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The great modern cheat to ensure slaves don't rise against the rulers.

AttackPanda

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I used to work there and the money is amazing when the stock is rising. Since the stock stopped rising at the extreme rate that it was, it’s now just comparable to other tech orgs.

NormandyEssex

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That’s still a lot of money though. Lots of people would want to take those jobs if they could, and I mean qualified software engineers who make less than the average big tech salary.

krayj

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I personally know 3 different people who worked at the Amazon corporate headquarters in office jobs. All three came out mentally and emotionally broken and defeated after just a few years. Some office employees get signing bonuses deferred and payed out only if they survive some number of years. They internally refer to it as getting their 'golden handcuffs' unshackled. One of the three people made it to then and quit...the other two quit after the first year. Amazon is a grinder of human meat, and it looks like they're getting back into the business of grinding with this new policy.

BottleOfAlkahest

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Everyone remembers the peeing in bottles part of Amazon's model but the way they turn through office staff is less talked about. Amazon's business model is based on crushing their employees no matter their department, job type, or level.

galaxi

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Man, we really need better labor laws.

vaultdweller013

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I worked at an Amazon warehouse for about 2 years, I think the only reason they couldnt chew me up is cause I took to telling people to go fuck themselves for basically everything. "Can you go to sortation" Fuck off no, we only have 3 people using pallet jacks right now, maybe if you didnt reorganize sortation into an inefficient mess so managers could pretend to do something this wouldnt be a problem.

tonytins

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Online companies: you can do everything on the internet!

Also, online companies: except working.

RedditWanderer

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All of FAANG and most big companies are forcing this hoping people won't have anywhere to go.

Edgelord_Of_Tomorrow

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Basically a free gift to smaller competitors. If you've got desirable skills then you can be selective. Smaller companies offering remote work are more desirable, and saving on rent, utilities etc. means you have more to offer in terms of wages and benefits.

thatsnothowyoudoit

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Sort of?

The big tech companies often pay workers well outside the bands of other firms, particularly when you factor in the equity portion of compensation.

We’re interviewing a Googler right now and they’re going to knowingly take a pay cut to join a company that’s fully remote.

Likely this persons’ move isn’t only about it being remote but also that they’d have more agency in a smaller org.

RedditWanderer

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This is it. People move from FAANG to smaller orgs to have more agency, step up a role etc.. But then we take a severe paycut because often those companies don't have stonks and stuff.

They're banking on people living in big cities needing those salaries, and it's likely going to work.

Gingerlegs

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I was forced back in June 2020. It’d kill for 2 days home a week 😭

AngryAnusHornets

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Permanently Deleted

Buttons

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You'd kill for it, yes, but would you update your resume for it? When was the last time you sent out your resume?

Anticorp

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Who have you killed so far?

autotldr

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This is the best summary I could come up with:

Amazon’s CEO has told workers “it’s probably not going to work out” for them at the tech company unless they are prepared to come into the office at least three days a week.

Through an announcement on the company’s blog, Jessy said the leadership team had decided that it was better for Amazon’s culture and easier to learn from each other and collaborate more effectively when they are in office together.

The petition read: “Amazon’s top-down, one-size-fits-all RTO [return to office] mandate undermines the diverse, accessible future that we want to be a part of.”

The walkout was a protest against the company’s slow progress on climate goals and the return to office mandate.

This month, some Amazon workers in the US reported being tracked and penalised for not spending sufficient time in the company’s offices, an email sent to employees revealed.

The emails received by employees noted that staff members were “not currently meeting our expectation of joining your colleagues in the office at least three days a week”, according to the Financial Times.

The original article contains 404 words, the summary contains 175 words. Saved 57%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

const_void

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Right in the midst of a COVID surge. Brilliant CEO they have there.

CCatMan

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Sounds great. This mens they can stay home to look for a new job?