https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=017WGzJ5fHA&t=868s
As Putin's brutal invasion of Ukraine continues, we look at the failures of the Western left to grasp what is going on. WATCH NEXT:THIS explains why Russia s...
What?
This makes no sense.
The left doesn't love Russian. That's the right.
Source: I actually live here.
In Germany, the far left and the far right are most definitely pro-russia, each for their own reasons. The far right loves a Führer-like figure and that "minorities" are being actively discriminated in Russia, the left still considers Russia as being "anti-imperialist" even though Russia is definititely acting imperialistic af. And they are anti NATO. Russia considers both the german far left and far right as useful anti-NATO and anti-EU idiots, which aligns with their intentions. Thus they provide funding and relevance to them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OG0s3KANCY&pp=ygURd2FnZW5rbmVjaHQgcHV0aW4%3D
However, left/right moderates and liberals are pro Ukraine and they are the majority.
I guess it depends. I'll bring my country as an example, Italy. Here we have Right parties that are pro-Russia but at the same time our president is from a far-Right party and openly against Russia. On the other side, we have many left parties that are pro-Russia, mainly because they are anti-NATO. They hate America so much they choose to side with the child abducter Putin.
Tankies loves him, but in most European countries they constitute a tiny minority of the left. So yeah, definitely an incredibly misleading title for the video.
I assume that's intentional at this point...
There's a constant push of some big "both sides"-narratives, trying to equate a minority of (or even singular) tankies inside an already left-wing minority as totally equal to far-rights getting massively funded by Russia.
He uses some famous examples of American leftist intellectuals (to some extent) siding with Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Unfortunately, it is a thing.
What leftists?
I heard Noam Chomsky. He's a libertarian.
American libertarians are one of the crazy sectors of the America's right wing.
https://www.dsausa.org/statements/on-russias-invasion-of-ukraine/
Democratic Socialists of America left enough for you? Demanding the US leave Ukraine and Eastern Europe for Russia to genocide.
Never heard of them. Democatic doesn't mean Democrats. Hell, North Korea calls themselves a democratic social republic. Doesn't make it true.
Their head count is 0.03% of the American population. They have no political influence.
This screams Russian propaganda. Authoritarians love to spread fear and doubt.
The left stands with Ukraine.
Anyone that tells you otherwise is full on shit.
The right is the concern. If the the presidency Ukraine support could falter.
If Trump wins, I expect him to openly support Russia.
It seems we are talking across each other. In Europe the US Democratic party is not really considered left. It has a left wing, AOC and such, which also happened to want to lessen support for Ukraine, but when Europeans talk about leftists what we usually mean is the farther left.
AOC has been attacked for her support.
I don't know where you get your information. It is sounds sus as fuck.
The articles around any "diplomacy vs weapons" are from over a year ago. It was all bullshit to fill news cycles.
The left stands with Ukraine.
Do you?
The point here is: The left, not some slightly more leftish conservatives but actual left-wing, are a small minority in many cases. In the US they are a fringe movement inside the not-as-far-right-as-republicans democratic party, in many EU countries they are often a small party overshadowed by nowadays very centric social democrats. And inside that already small faction there are probably even a handful of tankies.
And then there are usually quite big and rising right-wing populist parties paid by the Kreml (and some singular not-Russian-but-still-oligarchs donors... possible overlap in some cases included).
Trying -not for the first time in the last year- to push storylines equating a handful of ideologically problematic people that are a minority inside a left minority with big right-wing movements proven to be financed by Russia is one big piece "both sides" narrative and nothing more than propaganda...
The point here is that there exists a world outside the USA. In Europe, both far right and far left parties have taken money from Russia, and oppose helping Ukraine (especially militarily).
You have somehow managed to conflate being a pacifist with thinking that it's okay for Russia to invade sovereign nations.
Please kindly go fuck yourself.
I do not need a foreigner telling me I don't understand my own country's politics.
How would you feel if i said you were confused about your country.
Yes, I have the power to end his entire career in this community. He should be polite to everyone, not just me, but I am also included with everyone. That being said, what is all this bullshit about "his own country"? People don't magically know how their own country works, let alone other countries. Also I don't even know which country is his country and I don't give a damn. He apparently doesn't know what country I'm from either.
They're not trying to teach you about your country's politics, though. They're talking about the responses of some Americans to your country's politics
Says the person clearly confusing either tankies or liberals (or both? lol) for leftists.
People on the actual left A. never fell for Putin who has clearly been a dictator in the making since he got the job, and B. ideologically oppose all and any states, and their leaders, so suggesting that, of all groups, leftists are the ones who somehow bought in to Putin is the most clueless and wilfully ignorant take.
Being a mod doesn't somehow magically make you correct nor well informed.
It’s definitely both. The ultra-left tankie lemmy instances love Russia and hate Ukraine too.
I would call anyone in that mindset not actually leftist, just right wing authoritarians with a red flag.
Yes. The right likes to claim they are really far-leftists because it loops back around. But it's important to remember the right is comprised of delusional simpletons.
They also enjoy lying and pretending they are leftist because they have no morals.
Unless you’re going to claim all the tankies on lemmygrad and hexbear are secret righties, you’re just wrong on this one.
Tankies as in communists?
Because yes. Those aren't left.
They are more ridiculous than libertarians.
The American left wants EU style socialism.
Healthcare, workers rights, etc.
Plenty of far right groups have called themselves communist and socialist.
If you think these people "espouse communist ideology" then you need to be specific about exactly what ideology, and how that leads to support for Putin.
It's what tears the German party The Left apart. One wing supports Russia, the other doesn't. Source: I live there
I havent paid too much attention to the us politics, but since you did and you live there what do you think on Hassans stand on it? I dont watch the guy, I just saw portions of his stance on it, which may be out of context. But he seemed to be anti ukraine in those clips, saying that Ukraine should surrender and US should stop helping Ukraine. Do you know anything about it? Can you please offer some insight?
I have yet to meet a single pro-Russian leftist in my country. Or a tankie. Sure, shit like lemmygrad, r/communism, etc. exists, but you have to go digging pretty deep to find those people.
Most leftists I know, even those who identify as socialists are pretty much in the "yeah, fuck Russia" camp. To the point that they openly advocate financing Ukraine.
This video is blatant propaganda piece, and not even truthful at what it tries to be.
I don't know which country you live in but I know podcasters and other influencers in Germany and sadly also met their kind in person and passed by a protest. It is real.
Finland. Living next to Russian border might bring some reality checks here.
And yea, I can imagine you could dig some nutjob podcaster here too, but can't imagine finding those people walking around IRL.
But the thing I'm most against is "western left", which is the point where I call out the BS. Vice seat of our right-wing party literally went to a Putin propaganda camp in Russia in around 2015 (by his own admission, no less), yet it is somehow "western left" that gets the blame for few tankies who are nowhere to be found.
Finland might be a different story, but in Germany the Left Party is deeply devided between Russia supporters and others. It is not all the left (which is said in the video near the end) and of cause the right is much worse but it is a group too big to ignore.
And if the video didn't make sweeping generalisations this would be a fine point to tackle. But it's not saying "half of the german left", it is saying "the western left".
It's not OK to leave this kind of stuff as a side note in small print, that is one of the prime tactics propaganda in general uses.
You're right. "The Left" is a vague term and doesn't apply here. I know such people and applied the video to them and as such it's well done but the title and framing during the video is misleading.
Yeah, if the video was less conflictory and was framed in a way that didn't scream polarisation to me, I wouldn't be as quick to dismiss it as a propaganda piece.
As a side note, I'm actually surprised that Germany has such divide within the left.
About the side note: There are different factors at play: nostalgia about GDR, Anti-Americanism and the peace movement (not sending weapons anywhere). And I was especially talking about the party "Die Linke" (The Left). Other parties like the Social Democrates and The Green (both part of the government) disagree on that.
There are ML and tanky organistations outside of parliament. But I think the biggest organized left movement at the moment in Germany is the climate justice movement, which is very decentralized but I think most are against Russia. I might be biased though since I'm part of this movement.
biggest success of pro-russian tankies in my country is single fb page with 2k likes. socdem party that has actual MPs advocated for sending weapons to Ukraine on second day o war and it's only because they don't have single leader (there's collective leadership instead)
I have never met one in person either. I've met countless on the internet. It's as if it was a manufactured outrage instigated by a genocidal regime. It worth addressing talking points distributed among that group.
Have you watched any of the Hassans takes on Ukraine? I only watched clips, which I assume are out of context. In those he was advocating for Ukraine surrender and to stop sending aid. Is that true? Sorry for asking you about it, I just cant stand listening to the guy, so I hope someone who does can offer some insight.
Sorry. I'm not American and I don't know anything about that except what quick google search told me.
The video certainly paints with an overly-broad brush. The effects he describe do exist with people on the left who hate America more than they are willing to engage their brain and consider evidence. People who say they hate imperialism, but justify imperialism when it isn't coming from America (or The West in general). The guy is talking about tankies.
There is a big misconception, and a lot of hypocrisy.
Far right is pro-puttin because they love all dictators who fight in the Middle-East.
Left is against the US because they are imperialist and treat Europe as vassals through unfair trade agreements and nato blackmailing. This lead to a strategy to balance international relationships by cooperating more with Russia and China, among others.
There is a big hypocrisy, because liberals don't care about dealing with dictators or not. They would mercilessly destroy a democracy if it was not capitalist and open to their national companies, and they happily deal with all dictators of the middle east and africa as long as they can get oil and other resources.
Puttin is not worse than Erdoğan, the only difference is that erdogan is supposedly in nato. Many countries in middle east are not better than Russia or China. The biggest problem with Russia is that it thought it could be a major power and made a stupid attempt to stay relevant, which propelled it into third world category with nukes.
All in all, Russia is not worse than the US. And no one in the European left support Russia since the beginning of Thame war. No one in the left actually supported puttin, even before that. That's lies, propaganda and disinformation. Love for USA is still strong with the liberals though. An unconditional love that is very much not returned.
You know, I don't like Erdogan at all. That being said, Putin is really worse than him. Like 1000x. Also, Russia is worse than the US, like 10000x. You just have absolutely no idea how much worse it is until you actually experience it.
Ok, now I'm not talking about local politics. The difference is indeed immense. I'm talking about international politics. And on this matter, USA is as bad the other 2.
Especially, USA is very bad even with its allies. As a European, I cannot ignore this.
And then there are all the islamist shit in the middle east that we gladly cooperate with simply because they have money and oil. We don't talk about it in France because they are as bas as putin or erdogan but they have oil and money, and we want that.
From the france point of view it's even worse because USA blackmails its otan allies to take US weapons instead of anything else, which cripples French defense industry. Talk about an ally... That's why people would like to cooperate with USA enemies: to humble the USA, because in geopolitics, that's the only way you do that. It's a power game.