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Google "Only spy the web" is highly inaccurate...they are everywhere. In every website, in your android phone, in your YouTube, in your Google drive, in your email, in your Google maps...
Anyways... I will calm down now. :)
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They are even part of paying for the massive underwater cables between continents that all internet traffic runs through.
They took everything over.
It's the most extensive surveillance network in the world.
Except that instead of an authoritarian government using it to totally control the learned populace, they are showing you ads.
We've still got a way to go before 1984. If it did happen, you wouldn't be able to discuss it.
Who is accessing the cables/data has never been more important, it's literally the difference between being in or out of reach of the law.
It's cute, people think their android os isn't collecting an embarrassing amount of data. Even if you turn everything off but cellular, it still phones home with cellular tower triangulation, app usage, call history, general web activity, weather the phone thinks your walking driving or riding a Bike, device diagnostics, etc.
Same, I wish there was a better options. I'm on android right now but when it comes time to upgrade I always try to choose the lesser evil and it's hard.
If you want privacy the only real option is to buy a Android phone with unlocked boitloader and use something like /e/OS or LineageOS, that will break a few apps but most of them work fine with MicroG.
To buy an android phone that is supported by one of those projects. My galaxy s20 isn't and I'm not willing to loose Android auto and the ability to use my cameras.
Said Android phone would still use the towers and cellular carriers love selling customer data, because what're you gonna do? Switch to another carrier that happens to also use their exact same towers?
Those can't collect much beside my location tho and they aren't allowed to here unless the cops tell them to, not perfect but a LOT better!
I wish there was a paid google of no spying... I mean what does google one get me, but the ability for google to spy on more or my data?
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Everyone thinks about the spying as relating to themselves, the individual.
Google doesn’t give a shit about you. Google gives a shit about us. Collectively. They can monitor the collective soul of the world. When people are busy, when they’re not paying attention, when they’re mad, who, and for how long; how they react to certain subjects…how to get them to listen about certain subjects, how to bring them around to certain subjects, how to keep them disagreeing with other viewpoints, etc.
They’re literally developed “a remote control for the flock” and everyone’s out here like “why do I care if Google see my save games I have 500 hours in CoD so wut”
They're really good at providing value for your data, I feel the same way about YouTube premium. I do it to better support creators and remove ads but they probably have one of the most detailed profiles on me.
They're really good at providing value for your data
Perhaps you perceive that to be, which is totally fine, but how do you actually know that? We have no clue what that value truly is to them since they won't share with us. If you are happy with what the googs get you, great (no sarcasm).
Myself, I fail to see the value being returned.
To each it's own, I'm trying to move away from Google too. I still think it's a better return than you would ever get from Facebook, Microsoft, or Amazon. There's something to be said about most people being completely happy with using Gmail, YouTube, chrome, or search with minimal complaints. For a while we even got "free" unlimited storage for photos.
Again, we have no idea of the value our data is to any of these companies because they are not transparent about it, but I agree that google does provide more than those others. Especially for me as I've eschewed FB for a long while now and have distanced myself from Amazon too.
I am all over YT though until we can get a successor. Way too much good content there.
Once a month google sends me this email. "Your timeline".
It's a map with this line drawn on it showing everyplace I went that month. Home to work to the grocery store to my dealer's etc.
Why are they showing this to me? Is it an advertisement of services? A brag? A threat?
It's a smidge disturbing.
For me, it is useful. At the very least, such a blatant display of tracking information means people will know about it and disable it if necessary.
It should be an opt in feature, but it has helped me a couple times. I got beat up pretty bad after leaving a bar and couldn't remember anything about the night, was able to retrace my steps from the google stuff.
Oh that's spooky. What phone do you have? I was almost gonna say that it's likely a pixel thing, but I have one too, so idk why they would brag with your data.
in your android phone
And if you try to revoke their spying access on a rooted stock device, they force a reboot ☹️
Hence GrapheneOS sandboxing the Play Store. It is ironic that Google is the only phone manufacturer that allows for installing a different OS. But I suppose the fact that GrapheneOS has pushed security updates that have made it into stock Android and the fact that most users won't bother installing an alternative OS on their pixel phones is why they allow such shenanigans.
I use rooted LineageOS on my 4a 5G, though I do still have GApps on it. Next phone I buy I'm thinking I'll give GrapheneOS a try. Leaving behind my rooted system level adblocking would be difficult for me though.
In regards to ad blocking. My solution isn't as all encompassing as that, but for general web browsing, I use the Mull browser as you can install some addons like ublock and noscript. I'll admit though if you're looking to install advertisement heavy Play Store Apps though, I'd say maybe look into using a PiHole to adblock your home network?
I mostly just use my phone for/at work. I already have a server that could operate as a pihole at home, but my PC already blocks everything under the sun, so it's not really needed.
I get most of my stuff off f-droid unless I don't have any other choice, and use firefox with ublock+noscript on my phone as-is. But it is nice to not have to worry about getting ads in anything else when I do install an odd game or something, though.
What works for me is a pi-hole at home, a wireguard service on my (dd-wrt) router with the pi-hole functioning as dns server and my phone using wireguard as an always-on vpn.
All traffic on my phone is now routed through the pi-hole at home, which filters out all tracking, wherever I am.
Pinephone is the obvious one, BUT! Have you heard of FairPhone? These things also make it easy to install other operating systems on them. Also Beter for the climate ig.
I actually have a Pinephone from a few years ago (2 years now I think?). I never used it as a daily driver as it was very slow and had comparatively less features than the iphone and samsung phones i had had previously.
Upon recently deciding on purchasing the Pixel 7a and installing Graphene OS on it, i did heavily consider the Fairphone, but I'm in the US and they only just started to come to our shores. The family plan I'm on wasn't a supported carrier, so that more or less made the decision for me.
The observation about the pinephone and fairphone being more environmentally friendly is intriguing. Care to elaborate a bit please?
I'm not the right person to do that, they got some good advertisement tho.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6gtj1ynstU
I'd encourage you to wait a bit tho, because it seems like they are about to announce a new one.
I stand very corrected. My apologies for not investigating this further before posting. I suppose i should rephrase my previous comment as:
I find it ironic that Google allows its flagship product to be rooted with an OS dedicated specifically to limiting data harvesting of Pixel users.
I don't do Android development, but I would imagine rooting makes it easier to test things, as you wouldn't have to rely on ADB all the time.
With Samsung these days, it's usually impossible to root without some sort of exploit on US models unfortunately.
I don't use Google Fi, but a quick search shows that many have gotten it to work with Graphene OS just fine. You can still install Fi from the Play Store, and it appears all works as intended as long as you grant it Network Permissions.
I'd do research on it though if you're truly interested. They have a link to their Matrix chat on their website where you can field general questions.
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I use alternative for all google services.
YouTube - piped.video
Google drive - Mega Drive or Anonfile
G-Mail - Proton
Google Map - OSM (Open Street Map)
It would be fun if some government required companies that off free services to disclose how they make money and allow each user to see their particular value. This might help open some eyes....
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open their eyes to what? the fact it costs money to run a service? its either some data mining or everything costing a helluva lot more. and im sure youd complain about prices too.
and im sure youd complain about prices too
A universal claim only takes one case to disprove, and I'll be that case: you're wrong. I actually seek out the pay services and cut out the "free" ones.
My real complaint is when the huge companies offer a paid plan, but then still try to double dip and abuse my data and I. So I leave for the smaller guys who have an actual reputation to protect and so have garnered some trust. The hard part are things like google street view, or youtube, where competition is way behind due to the sheer inertia that incumbents have (e.g., creators using youtube due to the huge potential audience).
Other thing hard to ditch for me is android, as I really don't like how tightly locked down apple's walled garden is - not being able to run real firefox with my choice of extensions is a showstopper for any mobile platform.
Services are free on the internet because people pay with their attention and data instead. A single user is much more valuable than you think, especially the recurring ones.
And not just google stuff, the big companies are for sure in exchange so if you do something on instagram, google will know it for sure.
Therefor im trying to step away from google, here are my alternatives to the google services:
Google drive -> Nextcloud Gmail -> Tutanota Youtube -> (im still using this) Maps -> Open Street Map Authenticator -> Aegis Chrome -> Librewolf/Firefox Passwords -> Bitwarden
(All of these alternatives are just my own preferences and what I daily use)
For youtube, there's libre frontends like newpipe and piped (but of course you are still using youtube)
Sure, but all of those, except the phone (and TV mentioned in another comment), are part of the web.
started uploading pics to maps as a 'guide' back in 2000s. G has sent me a few trinkets over the years(coveted lego phone stand). a level 8 guide, w/e that means. millions of pic views. what do I care. it's a hobby. Moved a home phone line to Voice. Get email transcript of any voice mails. set it to do not disturb. phone never rings. voicemail or nothing. I use them for free. They use me. Or think they do
I'll be switching to Lineage soon...
Google forced my manufacturer (Fairphone) to effectively 'disable' the fingerprint scanner from android 13 onwards for the FP3. Our Lineage fork reverted that Google mandated change thankfully
or if your device has a maintainer willing: EvolutionX. im surprised how painless of an experience this custom rom is. and it's got no bullshit stuff in it either. fucking crazy. they even got ota support... it's like oem rom experience, only, there's no third party spyware installed(excluding GApps. but even google's telemetry can be highly restricted when we install AFWall+ and use NextDns+Adaway along with it). it's been years(close to a decade actually) since I've used an oem rom on my personal phone, it's just that good
I signed up for a credit card once, in person on paper. Never heard back, discovered tears later several cards had been opened kn my name and left delinquent. Fuck me for trying to apply for my frost credit card, apparently.
Or use librewolf whoch is a foek of firefox just with all the privacy related stuff preinstalled like ublock.
I have started to hate Brave with how much of their BS that they have added in the browser.
Things like VPN, Rewards , Wallet, News and more. Heck, Chrome now seems better to me bcoz of all these features (bloat) they have managed to add. Same with Edge.
Brave solves one set of problems... And replaces them with an entirely different set of problems. I'll stick with Firefox.
Firefox is not safer. It’s just a different browser for people who don’t like to say ‘chrome’ in their mouths . It’s not really any different in the safety. It’s like how people think private browsing is private but it’s not. It’s just a comfort label.
Do you KNOW anything about online privacy?
Not using Chrome is a great first step since your browsing data isn't directly fed to Gogle. Not using Gogle as your search engine is just the next step. Just by doing this you have mostly ridden G*ogle of the ability to know what you've been searching, but they can still get around.
This is where using stuff like Firefox and Brave is important. Because these browsers come with built-in protection against trackers. But that's not just it. You want MORE. Next up is installing uBlock Origin. Set it up properly and congratulations you just became essentially invisible on the web. If that isn't enough then you're welcome to use TOR or a VPN to completely demolish all good attempts at tracking and spying. In fact, TOR alone would be enough for most users.
You fuckers always act like having privacy online is impossible or something when it's really not. All it comes down to is user tech literacy and knowing what do to. I don't want a browser that straight up listens on the mic to everything I say. NOBODY who knows shit thinks that "private browsing" is safe. NOBODY. That's why using Firefox is just one step and not all of them.
You fuckers always act like having privacy online is impossible or something when it’s really not. All it comes down to is user tech literacy and knowing what do to.
And you elitist fuckers love to shame others when it should be made easier for users. Shame on you.
That's a fairly simplified look at the whole picture though. Fingerprinting is a whole other beast, and Brave and Firefox and associated forks have varying and incomplete protections. For instance, only the Firefox-forked browser called Mull seems to effectively randomize data for canvas fingerprinting, whereas Firefox and Brave don't have protections against it at all. Saying you're essentially invisible on the Internet following your steps is pretty inaccurate. There's way too much money in this shit; web services are fingerprinting on everything they can.
I was talking about PC, it's just cherrypicking to assume anyone who mentions Firefox as a private browser doesn't refer to hardened Firefox. And for the record, I use Mull. Like I said, you just need to know your shit.
I'm not sure what this reply has to do with what I said in mine, to be honest. Your comments come off real condescending though, mate; not sure if that's your intent or not?
How many years has it been since chrome had a "bug" that had it activate some "antivirus" project that was scanning files on the entire machine even when it wasn't running?
We should all be thankful that ChromeOS is flaming hot garbage that no one should be using on UX alone.
Probably because Google encourages OEMs to keep the hardware dirt cheap so that they can expose as many kids as possible to Google everything and they can harvest their data for life.
My nephew's school has been using the same Chromebooks for at least the four years he's been there.
How long do you expect them to last?
Exists complains about the Chromebooks for schools, they expect to last 8 years but that count when the chromebooks is made and not when is shipped to school and sometimes the chromebook only last a couple of years. Besides that the chromebook itself is not very friendly with the repairability.
They'll last until either: the school stops using gsuite or some other company comes up with something even trendier to market that is cheap enough to justify a grant.
This is one of the reasons why I think something like “Freedesktop Platform” is a more appropriate term than “Linux”.
It's funny how Linux is only Linux if it benefits Linux nerds but the moment someone points out that Android, Chrome, Steam Deck, anything with telemetry and Linux has telemetry all of a sudden it's not "really Linux" anymore.
It really is Schrodinger's OS.
@CapraObscura @sin_free_for_00_days
I think steam deck is usually considered linux.
Benefits to proton after all make it out to linux. ChromeOS and Android are more debatable, although Google does submit a lot of code upstream to the kernel.
It's the first time I hear that Steam OS isn't Linux. Why wouldn't it be considered as such?
Nah, it's just easier to refer to GNU/Linux as Linux. None of the GNU stuff is in Android, so it really is -just- Linux. Steam Deck is a fair point, they modified some distro a lot and made it their own (like Microsoft modifying chromium to make the edge browser). But yeah, Linux nerds be like that.
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Stalking. Spying sounds like a kids game or movie. This isn't observing. This isn't passive. It is actively exploiting. It is predatory, targeted, manipulative, with intent. It is stalking.
You're right and I'm making the switch to using this word while bitching about their stalking.
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Apple fanboys will lose their shit if they see this meme. I sometimes dont understand these fanboys like apple doesn't pay them nor does they credit these idiots for word of mouth free marketing instead these idiots pay top $ to buy their product and act like them invented it. Stupid mofos!!
yeah i will never understand company fanboys they cheer for people that fuck them over it's like putting your hand in acid and saying it's good for you
Well it's more the fact that they have payed top $ so it can't be a flawed product. That's most likely why some apple users react in that fashion.
Microsoft: Gets slapped with antitrust lawsuits for including Internet Exploder with Windows.
Microsoft: Hold my beer.
Crazy how Google hasn't been hit for forcing everyone to use Play Store by making it unreasonably inconvenient to use 3rd party stores to update software.
In iOS 15 we should see side loading of apps from 3rd party stores. I think this was the result of an EU ruling? Hopefully someone else can confirm.
Ah! Thanks. Yes I got my upcoming numbers muddled. it's the iPhone 15 and iOS 17. My bad.
Sort of, but you have to either mess with self-signing and reinstalling weekly, or trusting a 3rd party with mobile device management. Not great options.
Ah so not really natively then.
F-droid is (of course) not available in the Play Store, but it's trivial to download and install it from their website after allowing your browser permission to initiate app installs.
It boggles my mind that Microsoft got shit on by the US government for packaging Internet Explorer with their OS, but Google hasn't been reprimanded in any meaningful way for being SO much more anti-competitive with their Play Store by not even allowing you to download other stores through it.
It hasn't been hit directly but the EU Digital Markets Act will make that behaviour illegal, among other things.
Yeah, manually downloading and clicking install/update on each app, waiting 5-10 seconds between apps. So much easier than just pressing "update all" or using automatic updates. Totally comparable.
Personally, I just sideload a couple of apps and they tend to not have issues. It's kinda nice
I'll hold it. To pour it over their head. lol Edge the assimilated Chrome. most of their desktop apps open links in Edge instead of the default browser. I installed 'no script' on Edge and links open to a blank tab on MSN. copy links to my prefered browser. would be on linux except for one game I like
I use Opensuse for everything bar gaming. I dual boot to Win10 for any games I want to play. This setup works pretty well for me.
I did that with Gentoo and W11 but got sick of Windows messing with the EFI boot order and ended up nuking it. Proton games only from here on out.
Yeah, honestly Linux gaming has come a LONG way in the past few years. I rarely need to boot into Windows nowadays.
tried that once. I worked in IT for many years. server monkey. mostly used VMs on large rack mount hardware for linux/windows servers running various services for a college. forget what that system was called. mostly retired the last 10 years. windows 10-11 took away my left side task bar option and I quit playing the one game. thinking about a new linux box with maybe a windows partition for dos games. VMs don't usually play nice with games.
current dust filter:
case: https://www.coolermaster.com/catalog/legacy-products/cases/haf-xb-evo/
Idk that they are overtly spying, but they have telemetry reporting turned on by default now, and you have to manually turn it off. There has been concern in the community over what they're doing with that data.
I think it is funny that this community thinks it knows everything about privacy and security and every time I see a post like this it becomes apparent that the main of this community doesn't.
I like the Fediverse but it is a security and privacy nightmare.
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The important thing is: it's not traced back to you. It's possible to see everything for everyone, sure. But nobody knows that it's you and that's why it's not as much worth
That's not how it works though? They don't need to know "who you are," because with ads you have a unique identifying number. If you are browsing the web and your ads become more catered to you then you are giving data somewhere.
Privacy is about maintaining as little about yourself as personally possible. That is what gets me about this app. Half the users on here have very little idea how the Internet works. Privacy and security aren't about going, "I support open source and decentralized software so the big man doesn't have my data," but that is not how that works at all. Just because you aren't giving your data to Mark Zuckerberg and you don't support Facebook doesn't mean you aren't exposing your giving data to someone else.
I also truly don't think Lemmy users realize how exposed they are potentially making themselves. Even if the API is free and your app is open source and it isn't Elon Musk showing you your image of a cat does not mean you are private and secure.
Lemmy services and instances are hosted on a server and use an API that is open to anyone and everyone that wants to host an instance and community. So instead you are entrusting your data to someone you don't know on their hardware that you don't know anything about.
From a security and privacy point of view Lemmy is a nightmare. Mastadon, etc. Even if your data is encrypted or passed along secure channels and you can migrate your data to some other instances does not mean you are safe. That is not how the law works either. If a national government agency shows up and issues an order for their server data and that data isn't protected properly by the host well then you are exposed. The people acting like they know something more because you decided to pay for Sync or because you want to use Windows or Google literally no zero fucks about privacy and data.
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No, thats exactly it. When you post something on reddit, Google collects your browser information for your "unique identifying number" by having scripts implemented into Reddits site. Google then knows, that u/Prethoryn is your account and they can then collect the data from your reddit account and link it to you.
But your Lemmy instance (so far) does not do that. You post something here and google sees that some "Prethoryn@lemmy.world" guy wrote something, but their data-collecting can't link it to your unique identifying number, because lemmy.world does not collect that information from you. And of course, your comment is federated to thousands of other instances. But they also can't sell more information than what is available when you look at Google. If lemmy.world decides to implement tracking, this of course changes. But for now, your comment is not linked to you and it's definitely a step up in privacy (regarding companies) than before.
The other aspect of privacy, personal privacy, is of course not so good on the fediverse and that's where your points make valid sense. If you want to delete your comments because your friends discovered your secret account, it's basically impossible because of the federation.
Well technically I am using a Google pixel phone to access Lemmy through an app that I downloaded from their store, using the same phone and ISP that I use to chat with my mother on Facebook Messenger, shop on Marketplace, order on Amazon and check my mails. I also tried the connect-your-phone thing to read my SMS on the computer, so Microsoft also got in.
Everyone knows everything I do at this point.
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I don't know where you live but in most of the world it would be illegal for them to spy on what you do in the apps. Yes, Google knows that you use Lemmy and also Facebook knows that. But they are not allowed to spy on what you do inside those apps and can't link your account to your phone if you don't use an app that sells this data (aka Sync)
If you're forced to use Windows for some things, use Windows 10 LTSC. If you can't buy it (because Microsoft refuses to let consumers buy a non-spyware version of their OS) then sail the high seas for it. It takes the telemetry out and you'll have full control over the OS, can more easily remove Edge and can set your group policy and other stuff to completely block telemetry to your taste.
https://ameliorated.io/ is also a handy project for those that don't want to tinker around with group policies and other tooling. I have been using AtlasOS on my gaming machine for a few months now and the experience and performance has been splendid.
At that point just use Linux. When it takes you more time to un-fuck an OS than install it from scratch, it's time to find a new OS.
Not an option for me unfortunately. I do simracing and the support for simracing hardware, software and the games is abysmal unfortunately.
I do use Linux on my laptop tho!
In exactly the same boat as you, except I just use driving sims in general like ETS2, assetto corsa etc.
Linux laptop gang 🤝
As a linux user, there are valid reasons one may wish to use Windows and some people just prefer it
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I keep 11 for some machine specific settings. It is on a separate drive from Linux and it exists in a post internet age of behind a router that will never give it access to anything. If I need something for it, Linux will placed those files on a separate drive to manually carry them over to little double middle finger OS. Maybe it can have internet one day when it grows up and vomits all its source code in a bankruptcy.... Assuming it is not to late to abort this little monster toddler.
Google: Laughing in Chrome, scanning your entire file system
Google: Laughing in bloody web DRM
All you can really do is make the spying as difficult as possible. That's really all we can do 🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️
True. And unfortunately certain privacy measures can make it easier to digitally fingerprint you as a user. Also my mind is still blown since I learned about canvas fingerprinting. EFF.org describes it as follows:
Canvas fingerprinting is invisible to the user. A tracker can create a “canvas” in your browser, and generate a complicated collage of shapes, colors, and text using JavaScript. Then, with the resulting collage, the tracker extracts data about exactly how each pixel on the canvas is rendered. Many variables will affect the final result. These include your operating system, graphics card, firmware version, graphics driver version, and installed fonts.
These settings are different from one computer to the next. But they tend to be consistent enough on a single machine to clearly identify a user.
It depends of the OS. The vast majority of Android devices " yes". But there are few exceptions like GrapheneOS for example, where Google code was almost completely purged from the system except from the firmware level (unfortunately), for basic reasons.
I always love that scene in Batman where he's hacked everyone's phone to see all their cameras.
It looks like everyone in the world is standing around everywhere pointing their phone cameras in the most convenient directions to give a great view of streets, rooms and hallways everywhere.
In real life, if you tuned into people's cameras right now, fifty percent would be the inside of pockets, purses or clothing. A quarter would be pointed at blank walls, ceilings, floors or the sky. And the rest would be terribly close close-ups of people faces or the shower/bathroom/sink.
If I remember correctly, it wasn't the cameras, it was the microphones. It was able to recreate 3d scenes with some kind of sonar algorithm (probably by combining the microphones from multiple people in the same room?) (I actually really liked Batman using sonar). 3d images from microphones still sounds farfetched but, may actually be possible soon
Saw a tiktok where they trained ai to use wifi signals like a camera to identify locations of humans in a room
Phones also work as Wi-Fi emitters so if you hacked a whole network of them it could work on phones too
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I mean, Batman's software could probably filter out that stuff and show only the ones that are actually useful.
Y'all worried about cameras when there's a microphone too. IMO that's a way more intrusive than spying on camera.
Guess it's a good thing my case has a slider that blocks the camera. They can tell where but not what. Though with mic they can probably tell what most of the time too for me, yay for spying on me watching cartoons and playing video games. Now that I typed it I realized how little had changed in 30 years, thankfully there's new of both to enjoy.
It's a lot easier to install and more secure than not having anything. Good option for people who don't have a lot of skill in this area.
Is the phone still usable as it was before or are there apps/capabilities that won't work after the install?