Yeah I just remember to check every time...I'm sure that's one of those things that is just a little jenky that will improve with time!
Go into your profile settings, you can select what it defaults to and in the case of the Jerboa it defaults both desktop and the app.
I recommend default sort to NewComments.
•
Yeah I think this is a bug in the web code but a fix has already been made for the next release.
Mine doesn’t do this, iv changed my settings and the settings stick. Potentially the instances you chose. Not sure
I agree that kbin is less buggy. However there’s something in the user interface that confuses me a little, mostly with the way pictures are placed in the feeds.
But it’s more polished and theres a great "feel" to it. Can’t wait to see where it goes.
Yep, hello from Kbin! It's all federated together and in the same format. Kbin was designed to be directly compatible with Lemmy.
Not yet! There is at least one in development, but the Kbin API hasn't been turned on yet since Kbin is so much newer than Lemmy, so it relies on scraping the web right now.
I'm just sticking to lemmy.world for now. It doesn't have all the communities I want yet but it seems more open than the others. I don't like walled gardens or gated communities. If I wanted a platform with power hungry, elitist moderators creating circle jerk in-groups, I would have stayed on Reddit.
•
Same. I joined .world randomly because I didn't understand Lemmy when I joined, but I made the right decision!
Yeah same. I did shop around a bit on other instances but i decided the general purpose one here was the most sensible for me.
Same with me and I'm ultimately super happy with my Lemmy experience so far. I've been on since the 11th and the experience gets better every day.
Not necessarily. As someone else pointed out in this thread, beehaw is currently set up so that Lemmy.world users can view and comment on posts on beehaw communities, but those comments can only be seen by other lemmy.world users. Individual instances can restrict what users from other instances can do.
I just like that the image previews don’t look like flat rectangles the way they do on kbin.
You can follow any lemmy or kbin community from one account on any instance
Except comms from beehaw if you're on .world; leave those and join another similar comm if you are.
Beehaw recently defederated lemmy.world out of concern for not being able to moderate such a huge user base with current mod tools. Learn more here
Tldr: beehaw comms are gonna be dead soon when viewed through lemmy.world
Why instantly back to reddit? There are many more alternatives.
People these days be like: 1 sign of trouble: give up
Because it’s a systematic problem. It’s not something that can be fixed somehow by better tech or something. So at best we will eventually get one central instance of Lemmy… which is essentially a worse version of Reddit with only Communists and Techy people.
Beehaw admins literally said that they only defederated because existing mod tools weren't fine-grained enough to address the issue otherwise. Mastodon already has those tools, and in fact went through a similar temporary defederation issue.
So, yes, it can definitely be solved by better tech, and already has.... just not on lemmy.
Oi, I'm moderate af and am only techy to people who don't know the difference between a laptop and... the larger one!
I do like a community that values a free, open and decentralised Internet, Reddit used to, but seems to have lost that.
In my opinion, getting one central instance of Lemmy would just turn it into reddit. Eventually some tyrant would get power over it and we would be right back to the problems reddit is currently facing. The federation is a feature that prevents all that shit because tyrants can only take down small portions of the network.
Yes it adds some struggles, but you get what you fight for. Unless things change for reddit, it doesn't look good. Most people will have more self respect to stick around and the content is going to suffer as a result.
That all being said, if this is a deal breaker for you, I understand, but I request that you give others a chance to see if Lemmy is right for them.
Because it's a systematic problem. It's not something that can be fixed somehow by better tech or something. So at best we will eventually get one central instance of Lemmy... which is essentially a worse version of Reddit with only Communists and Techy people.
Man, you sure sound like you're fun at parties...
It's a new age, lemmy is a new-ish platform.
Reddit is owned by a company, heck, it IS a company. Lemmy on the other side is a federated network. No one really owns Lemmy. It's like torrents in a way.
Reddit is also almost 20 years old. Lemmy's like what, maybe two? Reddit wasn't super great in 2006 either.
It is something that can be fixed by simply developing mod tools. Lemmy as a whole is still in alpha, and the apps have a few bugs. These will be resolved over time.
Beehaw just announced yesterday that they will be defederating (removing) lemmy world from view because they think lemmy world has too many troll posts. Lol
Couldn't any instance get troll posts? I am confused how they say it's a problem because lemmy world isn't vetting. How would you even vet someone anonymously?
•
it's more of a the tools available to combat it are lackluster, so instead of trying they gave up. It's the sledgehammer approach but honestly it will lower growth of the instance, but that's exactally what the admins of the instance wanted
just pick one, you only need one, and you see posts from the other 3 from that one source. hi from kbin, viewing and commenting from kbin right now
You don't need to do all that, you only need one account as they are all federated, meaning they can talk to each other.
The exemption is beehaw, because they are defederating temporarily to put less strain on the servers
It's not about the servers, it's about moderation. They have a clear vision of what their instance should be like but they don't have the tools not moderators to make it so while getting traffic from other big instances
in the future when they possibly have more moderators and the influx of users has slowed down on lemmy.world, would it be easy to federate again? i know many instances defederate from others that go against their beliefs or how they want to run the community, but ive not heard of any that have re-federated
I saw a post by one of the lemmy.world admins who said they had a discussion with the beehaw admins and their ideals align enough that they think they will federate again once moderation has gotten under control.
Edit: it was actually the sh.itjust.works admin
Edit 2: here's the link to the post: https://sh.itjust.works/post/129725
This is hearsay, but I believe it is temporary until better moderation features are developed and user influx shows down.
•
Not to be too much of a pedant, but I think the messaging is important: it's not about how many moderators, it's about moderation tools. Lemmy's are a little too rudimentary for what they want.
Anyway, refederation would entail taking lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works off their blocklist. That would allow users on those instances to subscribe again and comment/post. That part would be user-initiated. Then on the Beehaw side, they'd have to subscribe again to lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works communities. That part would also be user-initiated.
Careful, I said something like that and a guy posted a thousand word rant at me bitching about reddit refugees asking for more reddit lol, I was like chill dude I just want a simple platform to shitpost on without a phd in the lemmiverse or whatever jeez
As a web developer who feels fairly knowledgeable of most things web, even I have a hard time wrapping my head around the Fediverse, how to use it, and the broader implications. If the folks that have been using it for more than the past week and a half do anything but inform and encourage, it will just drive away the people needed most to bring about widespread adoption.
There's not much to it really. You make an account on an instance that takes your fancy, then click "All" instead of "Local" to see content from other instances. You can subscribe to other comms in other instances just the same as the local ones.
The only barriers are defederation (beehaw.org has defederated from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, also some have defederated from lemmygrad.ml) and editing. Defederation means you cannot see posts between instances, while edited comments appear to only be stored on the true host instance and aren't synced federally (I think the comments only sync when they're created).
kbin and lemmy federate with each other. You only need one account and you can view posts from any instance*
- Except for those that choose to defederate, like beehaw. But that's their choice to make a walled-off community.
At first it was
"You only need one account, it's like an email, they all federate with each other"
I was reeeaally excited for the prospect. (I still am btw)
But now it's more like
"your account here can see that instance and that one too -- but it's buggy so sometimes it takes time to sync -- anyway you cannot see that one for that one you need a distinct account-- oh and if that instance decide to defederate then you'll need another account for there too".
I'm still into the Fediverse, it's just we still have things to figure out.
The good thing is I think most of these issues are a design issue that can be solved client side rather than fundamental flaws in the architecture.
For example, if you go to comment on a Beehaw thread and the app just showed some kind of prompt, e.g. "Sign-up to Beehaw or an instance federated with Beehaw to comment on this sublemmy" I think it would feel pretty straightforward.
All the confusion with how federation works is something a well designed app could explain to users as they explore. Obviously it will just take time for the platform to mature to this stage.
So much this. Defederation is a catastrophic issue for an average user in its current form, as the interactions fail totally silently.
Give us simple but informative warnings on reading threads, warnings when trying to post, warnings when trying to subscribe, and warnings when our subscriptions become defunct. Then the user can make informed decisions about either looking for new communities, or maybe moving to a different instance.
beehaw is still federated with kbin.social but they've recently dropped lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. They have a page that shows where they're linked and where they're not:
https://beehaw.org/instances
They also recently posted they forsee refederating with sh.itjust.works in the future once things chill. No word on lemmy.world, yet.
I just wish there were a way for me to write a short bio listing my username on other servers/platforms in-case they get defederated for one reason or another--but such is beta life...
I just joined .world because it sounded the most logical
"Oh it says world, that probably means i can see things all over the world"
I'm not disappointed
World here too on the Jerboa app, I'm subscribed to a BUNCH of communities in other instances and can browse and comment on them all with my world profile. Still kinda confused how it all works but I'm liking it so far
I have yet to figure out how to discover communities on other servers on jerboa. I currently just subscribe to communities on the browser which I then can see in the app.
Home screen, menu at upper left, click "All". I also recommend changing the filter option to "Hot", which is one of the buttons on the top right.
You don't need multiple accounts, one account can access all different instances, including subscribing to remote communities. You just have to click "All" in the communities or post list to see them, instead of "Local".
Except for beehaw.org defederating from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, and I think some defederated from lemmygrad.ml.
Also it should be said that edited comments don't seem to pass across the instances. I think they only sync when the comment has been made.
Did beehaw.org defederate from lemmy.world ? I'm on Lemmy world and see posts from beehaw. Is there a way to check who is federated with who like some kind of map?
If I'm not mistaken, you can see the posts and can even comment, but only people on lemmy.world will see your comment. People from beehaw and other instances won't see it. That's because lemmy.world haven't defederated from beehaw.
More info here: https://kbin.social/m/lemmyworld@lemmy.world/t/24341/How-the-beehaw-defederation-affects-us
You can see which instances are blocked here: https://beehaw.org/instances. It's in the bottom of the page of every instance home page or just add '/instance' after the instance's address.
•
I'm new to this. I have one question. Imagine the following setup:
- Instance A federates with instances B and C
- Instance B only federates with instance C
- Instance C federates with instance A and B
Following scenario:
- Someone on instance B posts something and writes a comment to the post
- I'm on instance A and I comment on his comment
- Now someone from instance C comments on my comment
What does a person from instance B see now? I assume he won't see my comment as instance B defederated instance A. But he should see the comment from the instance C guy. But how can he see the reply when the original comment is not visible?
Good question!
I think if you do that the little red light would stop blinking and you'd break the internet.
Federation is by definition a union, a mutual agreement. A and B are either federated or they aren't, there is no "A is federated with B but B is not federated with A".
So if A and B are federated and B and C are federated but not A and C, and your scenario happens, the person on B sees your comment but the person on C doesn't see it and can't reply to it.
•
undefined> A is either federated with B or it isn’t, there is no “A is federated with B but B is not federated with A”
Maybe I used the word "federated" wrong here. I thought it meant "being linked to another instance". To give an example of what I meant: the instance "lemmy.world" is linked to the instance "beehaw.org" while the instance "lemmy.world" is blocked on "beehaw.org".
Yeah, that's federation. In terms of the principle in government as well as its application in the lemmy protocol.
lemmy.world and beehaw.org are defederated. However, this doesn't mean that you can't see beehaw posts as a lemmy.world user, or vice versa. But (let's say you're a lemmy.world user) if you comment on a beehaw post, you're commenting on a replicated version of the post that is hosted on lemmy.world. It is not synced with the original post hosted on beehaw, and you will only be able to see comments from other lemmy.world users and comments from before beehaw defederated.
•
Thanks that makes sense. I understand that if I'm on a third instance that is federated with both lemmy.world and beehaw.org, and I click on a beehaw.org post then I would not be able to see comments from lemmy.world users. But I would be able to see comments from beehaw.org users and they would see comments from my instance.
Honestly I'm not sure, I'm also quite new to the fediverse. My guess is that being a parent comment, B wouldn't see it, but if C was the parent and A the child comment, B would see only C.
•
Someone else explained this pretty well in an answer. If that guy is correct neither users from instance B nor C will see the comment from the A instance user. This is because the post is hosted on instance B. And A-B are not federated (because of the block from B's side). This causes the comments from A to not be synched with B and therefore also not with C by proxy.
You don’t need multiple accounts, one account can access all different instances
You need a kbin account to find out if you find kbin better than lemmy.
•
i like the choice algorithm for which posts are better than others more attractive, but that's about it, i dislike the UI, it has no API, it's not clear which instances are federated & i can't find my favorite lemmy communities there, i have no idea how to subscribe to shit, it's pretty cool for idle browsing for a few minutes while pooping but that's about it
Everyday I learn of another 3rd party app for reddit which I didn’t knew existed. It shows how big reddit has become over the years and how spez has screwed over sooooo many people with that decision.
He doesn’t care. All he wants is the IPO to cash out.
It bums me out so much. I was a Boost user for a solid 5~ years, been on reddit for about 5½. Finally deleted my account earlier this morning
So you think this Lemmy thing will catch on? It needs some critical mass but I kind of like it.
I hope so. While I'm missing like 75% of the subreddits I used to frequent, I have the skeleton of it covered. With time hopefully it'll bulk up, especially with the huge influx of new users
I think we'll see some more growth in a couple weeks when the 3rd party apps actually stop working.
I find Jerboa to be similar enough for the moment, but it still has a long way to go to match Boost in it's comfort and feature richness.
Relay for me. I really hope that someone ends up implementing some kind of translation layer for the reddit API that would encourage the existing reddit apps to supper Lemmy.
•
That would be a spectacular idea.
And I'm happy to see another Relay user. They seemed to be left out of the lists even though they've got a fantastic app
Relay said they are going to try $3/month subscription model.
I definitely got my money's worth out of Relay Pro, but I can't justify the subscription.
Relay user here. I love Relay. Dbrady is the best. And I have no problem supporting him at $3 a month, but f* reddit after all this. I'm not giving them a penny.
Users should be getting paid for contributing to reddit, not paying for the privilege. We create the data that reddit gets its revenue from.
Not yet, but Ruben will not be able to handle the costs, so it dies with the other ones on the 30th or so.
I have no idea. I logged out of my account on the 11th and I deleted the app on the same night.
Nope, I used it today to check up on a bit of drama in my favorite band's subreddit
Reading an image, page refreshes, lose image. I wish I could turn off the auto-refresh or reduce the interval.
If you go to the next page, it stops doing that. Also doesn't do it on the Jerboa app.
They're working on removing this. When you read about the dev "stripping out websockets" that's part of what's changing.
Like NewPipe for YouTube. It pulls YouTube videos but also other PeerTube federated instances
Beehaw told me not to join unless I could say specific groups I wanted to join. Nah from me.
I don't understand how they think that would prevent trolls? A troll is probably more likely to know what communities they want to harass. A new user doesn't know what's going on and just trying to join.
I'm loving it honestly. I've gotten myself into a complete fankle with I think five different logins, but it's great. I've made a couple of posts even. Having always been a lurker, I now feel more like a participant rather than a consumer. I don't want a monolith, I like the neighborhood feel, having to figure things out, knit up the threads myself.
This will die down eventually: at the moment there are many different independent ideas of how to build federated reddit alternatives that have yet to really be tested for how the underlying systems and moderation tools scale. In due time there's going to be a standard application or at least standard exchange format between the different services, that just doesn't happen right now since all methods are really new and now get "suprise load tested".
That's also why you experience outages and Beehaw explicitly asking people not to join: everything went from "fringe techdemo" to "the internet is moving off of reddit" in a matter of less than a week (same thing is true with app support) and everything is at its breaking point: from the underlying technology to new communities appearing in a matter of hours to days (usually with less experienced moderators).
From Kbin you can subscribe to whatever sublemmies you're interested in as if they were magazines.
You could also do the same in reverse from Beehaw/Lemmy.world, but KBin currently doesn't federate properly (due to Cloudflare DDoS protection.)
For me subscribing isn't the issue... it's seeing the subscription afterwards that I can't seem to do.
How do you subscribe to lemmy communities from kbin? I have an account on there can look at the local stuff, but struggling to search and find things lemmy wide.
When you are the first person from your instance to subscribe to another instances community, it takes up to 15 seconds from searching for your instance to download and show it.
I have had good luck pasting the full web address of the instance/c/community into the search.
Yeah a waited a little. Which is unlike me tbh ha. Ah so if its worked for you with full address must just have been a hiccup when I've tried than thanks
Ah I've probably been getting syntax wrong. Was not using the @ and trying full address like on lemmy search, amongst other formats. Thanks will give it another go
Are you on mobile or desktop? Mobile has a separate search bar for magazines but I haven't seen a distinction on desktop.
Mobile with firefox. Was trying the general searchbar. Didn't see the one in magazines thanks
Federation has been janky. The whole site has been janky, with 500 and 503 errors, and all sorts of things.
It's just going through growing pains.
If you look at the main page, using 'All' (under the hamburger menu), a lot of what you see there will actually be from remote communities. Currently, kbin doesn't do a great job of surfacing the fact that those communities are remote, but if you hover over the community names, many of them will be formatted like /m/topic@someother.website. Those are remote communities.
Click on Magazines and use the search tool there. The global search doesn't appear to work. When you search for a community you can search with the full name (lemmyworld@lemmy.world) or just a term (wall street). If you use a full address, don't include the leading @ or !, it won't return any results. And the search isn't like google. Wall street will return different results than wallstreet, for instance.
I've just managed to find a community instead of the general search results from general. Used the @lemmyworld@lemmy.world I'm guessing reading everyones experiences that's its just a bit flaky and probably more likely when i've search is the issue not what . thanks for the tips
I need a damn explain it to me like I'm five for how all this works. My brain can wrapped it up into neighborhoods or space fleets but the in an out communications are the part I'm missing.
The Fediverse is like a group of interconnected neighborhoods, each representing a different social platform or community. Just as you might have neighbors on your street who interact and share things over time, these communities can communicate and exchange ideas. These neighborhoods may differ in size or focus, but they all exist within a larger universe - just like planets orbiting around a sun. In this case, think of our star system as something like Friendica (the first step towards the modern fediverse) and Diaspora* (itself originally based on Friendica). And just as there might be traffic or communication issues between planetary systems, there could be friction between distinct Fediverse networks. But ultimately, we’re still talking about a united whole here! Finally, imagine spaceships zipping back and forth through space linking up these distinct points of interest - say hello to the protocols bridging connections between decentralized nodes known as “federation” today. It’s all connected!
It's the defederation I'm still confused. That ship (Beehaw) left the fleet and locked down it's ship. What are the communication rules?
It's up to the individual server who they federate with.
If you want a gated community, or you want to cut ties with an instance that is full of spam or unwanted content, that's still possible.
In the swarm of starships, you aren't obligated to dock with everyone.
Ok. But we can still see their feeds ie beehaw games, so is that the people on that server won't see comments from people outside their instance?
Yeah, it's read-only.
IMO that's still better than other sites, where they don't federate at all.
On Reddit, you can screencap something, and paste a static image. You can't see the comments underneath at all.
I expect instances that don't fully federate will grow slower, so it won't matter, most content will be on instances that are open to fully connecting with others.
From my understanding, posts on beehaw won't populate on defederated instances. And defederated instance posts wont show on beehaw. There's also no requests sent or received from beehaw to update the beehaw posts with defederated data.
Defederated instance users can still go to posts directly on beehaw and they might be able to comment, but no one on beehaw will see it. It's basically "read-only" for defederated instances.
Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
I came up with what I think is a pretty good explanation when trying to explain the beehaw fiasco to a friend last night, here it is copy pastad
Think of it like cell service
You have TMobile, I have Google fi
But we can still talk because they both use 4g
But then Google fi blocked TMobile so I can't talk to you anymore
And if I want to be able to talk to people on TMobile and Google fi I would have to transfer my service to att
But also, the service is free to setup and run on your own
So instead of 3 or 4 big cell carriers there are thousands
Also, some added info:
Also, with the fediverse, when you transfer service you can take your data with you
Just like you can take your text messages and phone number with you
Fediverse meaning all the apps that work this way, like mastodon and Lemmy (at least those two one have data transfers I think)
Edit: can't transfer account
I think we don't for now. I think we just have to accept we might have to change instances once in a while, especially while things settle.
It's kind of like I have gmail and you have protonmail but we can still send emails to each other. Conversely emails from "@nigerianprince.com" will probably get spam filtered or blocked and you may not be able to communicate with them.
Well beehaw defederated Lemmy.world so you won’t see that stuff. Well they won’t see yours anyways so you won’t get to interact with them.
I honestly think we should just ditch beehaw at this point, this move will just make things way more complicated and probably keep many people from bothering to learn how it all works. You shouldn't have to visit 3-4 different sites to see the most popular lemmy content
I agree, they don't deserve to be one of the popular instances. They gathered a large userbase and just isolated it. If they wanted to be some special safe space, they should've specified that in the beginning instead of overcomplicating everything the way they did. People keep saying it's their choice, and it is, but in the same way it's Reddit's choice to kill off 3rd party apps.
Thank you! That's fucking dumb though. Just more of the same I've seen everywhere else on Lemmy, "I know this isn't Reddit or designed to be Reddit and was explicitly designed to NOT be Reddit, but WHY ISN'T IT REDDIT AND WHEN WILL IT BE REDDIT?!"
Seriously, half that post is "While we left a central authority to escape central authority, we will be working until this becomes a central authority to avoid all the things about decentralization that make it decentralized"
Really wish all the people who want a Reddit clone would just........go to one of the Reddit clones.
It's an interesting situation, defederating.
Defederated instances can see the instance that cut them off and can comment, but they (beehaw in this case) won't see their comments. However, if they refederate later when better mod tools exist, all the comments will (be able to) flood in, right?
If so, they'll need to be able to handle it in some way that enables them to maintain compatibility with their instance ethos.
Something something multiple instances (if you register with Beehaw, you can't access threads to Lemmy/lemmy.ml)...
•
just means screw beehaw, everything else seems accessible no point in catering to a single instance
Just create an account on an instamce that federates both lemmy.world and beehaw, like the one I'm currently on.