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TikTok likely helped far right in German elections: analysts

TikTok likely helped far right in German elections: analysts – DW – 09/02/2024

https://www.dw.com/en/tiktok-likely-helped-far-right-in-german-elections-analysts/a-70114669

The AfD was twice as effective at reaching first-time voters on the app than all other parties combined, according to an analysis of platform data. This may explain why the party performed so well among young voters.

TikTok likely helped far right in German elections: analysts – DW – 09/02/2024

58 comments

hydroptic

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Same shit happened here in Finland too, our extremist right wing party is very active on TikTok and the under 25's voted for them in droves. That generation is more conservative than Millennials or even younger Gen X, which is a bit fucked up. Especially young men and boys have gone off the deep end

Hubi

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Unfortunately true for a lot of European countries. It's easy to post a 20 second video about "foreigners bad" and kids with the attention span of a gnat will eat it right up. A longer video that explains why things really are the way they are will get swallowed by the algorithm. It just amplifies populism and outrage and will be one of the great hurdles to overcome this century.

hydroptic

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Honestly I think we're thoroughly fucked at this point

MoogleMaestro

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We could force control of Tik Tok's algorithm to be managed by a United States entity. You know, basically what China does to US businesses who want to sell product in China.

If they don't want that, they could let Google serve wikipedia articles about Tienanmen Square again lol.

hydroptic

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I'm not entirely convinced putting the US in charge of it would make things any better. It's not like eg. Facebook or Twitter aren't full of reich wing bullshit on purpose

MoogleMaestro

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It's a fair point. Frankly, considering where I am, I think America's social media should really be forced to engage with some kind of open federation standard (doesn't have to be activity pub) as I think it better reflects how the United States itself is designed as a republic. That feels like a long shot, but it's the dream.

tired_n_bored

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We could just ban personalized algorithms altogether

emax_gomax

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Is China tailoring the content to politics or are political influencers just better at pandering to people with blatant lies. Either way tiktok and other social networks should have more controls in place to filter misinformation but I'm curious if the affect is intentional or incidental.

MoogleMaestro

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Is China tailoring the content to politics or are political influencers just better at pandering...

It's hard to say without proof so I won't pretend to know the answer. What I do know is that, if the roles were reversed, China would 100% believe that any movement that caused chaos within the country was somehow orchestrated by the United States as that's what they've done in the past. So, until we have a hospitable relationship where the countries see eye to eye on any social issues, it really doesn't make sense for either control to have the keys to a popular social media network in the other -- if you get my drift. I will also say that promotional programs of games and movies from China, like the recent Wukong controversy, highlights that China very much believes in pushing their political narrative to the degree that it would be hard to imagine them not using it with a widely popular social media network like Tik Tok.

This is where federation is smart though -- the content is dispersed enough that the idea of removing a server is less daunting and there are fewer entities that are too big to fail.

PugJesus

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If it's any consolation

But that battle is a tough one for Republicans, given Gen Z voters overwhelmingly supported Democrats over Republicans in the midterms by 27 points — and prioritized protecting abortion access by a higher amount than any other generation, according to SocialSphere's survey data.

I suspect the kids, as a whole, are alright. Not that we shouldn't take this seriously, but we don't have to start planning our funerals yet.

hydroptic

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Hmm, I wonder if Gen Z's politics are different over there compared to here, because at least in Finland the 2. most popular parties they voted for were a right wing extremist party and a "fiscally conservative" party that is essentially indistinguishable from the extremist one (the joke is that the way to tell them apart is that the "fiscal conservatives" wear more expensive suits.) Sure, many do also vote for eg. the Left Alliance who are democratic socialists, but on the whole the generation is more conservative than the older ones

PugJesus

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Not sure, but I can say from personal experience here that, while right-wing parties are less popular amongst Gen Z, the right-wingers that are in Gen Z tend to be very political, not just casually political, and more extreme than your average Joe Schmoe conservative. Might be a contributor.

hydroptic

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Yeah it's the same here, they and the younger gens have apparently gotten very polarized; the ones who are "good eggs" are really decent folks, and the shitty ones are really shitty.

So while the extremist reich wing party PS (Perussuomalaiset or "Finns Party", because naturally only a nationalist wank is a real Finn) was their most popular party, as a proportion of their cohorts more young people voted for the Left Alliance than older ones did. Here's a handy table from our 2023 parliamentary elections (source):

KOK: National Coalition Party, fiscally conservative
PS: Finns Party, extremist right wing
SDP: Social Democrat, liberal / marginally left
KESK: Centre Party, what it says on the tin
VAS: Left Alliance, democratic socialists
VIHR: Green League, liberal & green
SFP: Swedish People's Party, right wing
KD: Christian Democrats, nearly as bad as PS
LIIK: Movement Now, nominally center right but about as right wing as KOK

Actually based on that study the claim that gen Z is more conservative than older gens doesn't seem to hold up. Seems like they're about as conservative, but also more likely to vote Left

addictedtochaos

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it has been shown:

the more crisis in a society, the more pressure you need to keep it under control, the more extreme the outer fringes get. It is always this way.

Hubi

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For a couple of generations at the very least, yeah.

addictedtochaos

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we were before. we have reached the part: "divide and rule".

addictedtochaos

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thats the same for adults. makes no difference.

addictedtochaos

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so those people were deceived by tik tok? why didnt anybody tell them about it?

gmtom

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It's the same everywhere because the far right are actively trying to manipulate people and get then into "the pipeline" while the left don't have a coordinated propaganda campaign.

FundMECFSResearch

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No shit. Social media is spreading ruzzian propaganda like the plague.

And the people in power don’t seem to give a shit.

Reverendender

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They might care more, if they understood any of it.

CitizenKong

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Yeah, here in Germany, most politicians don't really like to engage with digital topics at all and flat out refuse to use the internet. Which explains why my country has the worst internet in Western Europe by far.

Reverendender

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What could there even be on the internet? They have much better things to do. Do y’all have exclusive clubs over there for rich white men to schmooze, and sit around in leather chairs smoking cigars?

De_Narm

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It's quite logical even. Right-wing answers are short, simple and spoken with certainty. That's great for a half-minute clip. Answers grounded in reality are complex, require proof and have some uncertainty. That's not gonna fit in there, or, at the very least, you need an outstanding communicator.

No matter the age, most people stick just with what they hear most often.

SkaveRat

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Right-wing answers are short, simple and spoken with certainty.

"Every problem out there has a very simple, but equally wrong solution"

AmidFuror

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Do Flat Earth and/or religious apologetics do well on TikTok?

De_Narm

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Kind of? I remember a statistic about pseudo-science being more popular with younger generations. Energy healing, healing stones and all that other homeopathic bullshit. Assuming that is indeed correct, Flat Earth is likely more popular too.

It probably does okay simply by virtue of being so stupid, there aren't many people in their right mind producing videos about the earth being round to drown them out.

Danquebec

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It's good that some refute their points just for fun.

calcopiritus

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Of course younger generations are more likely to believe in pseudo science, they haven't yet learned that they are bullshit. Once they get older and have more experience with detecting bullshit, it's popularity should decline.

De_Narm

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Maybe, but I think it will remain more popular than before. Let's say there are 10% of people in any given group who would theoretically believe bullshit - the number is chosen randomly. Thanks to stuff like TikTok they are way more likely to come into contact with lots of different bullshit to believe in than ever before.

Kind of like how Republicans would be more popular if everyone would watch Fox News every day.

justdoitlater

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Wait, a Chinese government tool is spreading anti democracry propaganda?!?! SHOCKING!!

vin

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Bad headline. Should have titled as 'AfD is better at promotion on tiktok' or something of that sort

suzune

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Many first timers on Tiktok report that the first thing they see is this nazi crap right after registration. This is not normal.

vin

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Cold start is a hard problem for recommendations. It probably shows what's popular in the nearby locations and/or matching demographics. Why's it not normal?

suzune

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Because in most countries including Germany social networks filter these kinds of posts and try to fight against misinformation, racism, etc.

Tiktok can be used as a weapon. It can stir up communities and manipulate views. My impression is that it is done on purpose and it's been instructed by the Chinese government.

I don't have a proof but in American politics you can see tendencies against Tiktok. They are aware of these subtle issues.

addictedtochaos

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that would basically mean that there is only nazi content on tik tok. OR they use your data footprint to how you what they want you to see.

every media is being used by various parties to influence you.

you don't need china for that.

suzune

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I have no problem with parties and companies influencing me. I have a problem with parties and companies that openly violate the constitution.

addictedtochaos

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then sue them. it is your bürgerpflicht. oder zeig sie an.kostet nichts, dauert 30 minuten online.

suzune

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Ich mache mir die Mühe. Danke für den Hinweis.

addictedtochaos

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exactly. even i can make videos in tik tok for my "ritalin is better than alcohol " party. takes 5 minutes.

AutomaticUpdates

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One reason could be that a network of well-connected right-wing influencers on TikTok share AfD content and help amplify it, according to Verwiebe. Another could be that the majority of AfD candidates, more than any other party, are themselves active on the platform.

I have another: It's in the financial interest of Tiktok to promote an extremist party with extreme neoliberal views in order to make more profit.

LengAwaits

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https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-afd-on-tiktok-the-political-battle-for-the-youth/a-68690661

addictedtochaos

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I live over there, so :

young people are not the voting demographic, give me a break.

as if all those village inbreds aged 30 - 90 would go on tik tok.

and IF all these people ware watching nazi ads on tik took:

so what? they certainly don't read the newspapers, and the democratic partys won't try to make them better offerings anyway. because all these convincing offerings would consist of more infrastructure, more public transport, more wages, better future prospects. and what have you.

but thats far to expensive, and is not at all what the democartic centrist parties are doing right know. so they CAN'T bring the voter better arguments and offerings.

qarbone

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Sum this up in 2 sentences. I'm trying to parse this and worry I'm getting the wrong impression.

addictedtochaos

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the rich and powerfull dont want to give the poor people money. if the poor people had money, they would't worry about their future existance and fall prey to manipulation.

Xeroxchasechase

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Yup, that's how it begins. I hoped that the EU and the harsh WWII memories will make a difference

uienia

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young people are not the voting demographic

They definitely are.

Speiser0

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If only it was limited to TikTok. YouTube always recommends me those right shit videos, just because I'm german. (And no, it's not personalization. I've turned that off, and it seems to work, YouTube doesn't recommend me anything similar to the stuff that I actually watch.)
And if I didn't know that and how those right populists want to manipulate me, I would have long been radicalized already. There are just too many gullible people. Ads work for them, classical populism works for them, they give nigerian princes their money, they believe in superstition, why would anyone think voters were suddenly at least borderline resistent against populism?

addictedtochaos

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i am also german, i didnt get those right wing contents. which content are we talking about, by the way`?

have you examples?

Speiser0

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Sorry for the late answer. Somehow I got a bad case of demo effect.

For example, under this video I'm getting recommendations such as: ::: spoiler Spoiler

:::

addictedtochaos

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huh, that sure is wierd. i clicked the video on your link. i had the usual thing recommended: spaceships, farm machinery, how to play solo x on guitar, star trek and star wars news, and i had one anti afd video.

i assume the problem lies in what you watched and did before on the internet. google is very connected, you see. you get always more of the things you researched and watched.

i use firefox and have llots of various blockers and privacy stuff enabled, and turned off everything i could turn of in google and youtube, i mean, the datamining stuff.

Speiser0

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It will likely also depend on where you live, i.e. city vs rural area.

addictedtochaos

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for sure, I just recently also turned geo location stuff of, even camera and microphone. I read a couple of articles that mentioned various issues with third parties listening to words, and what ever whattsapp does, i dont even want to know.

i always said it was just conspiracy talk that this mirophone listens to us, but earnestly, why are so mamny apps connected to the microphone anyway?

well. I have to delete my google account sooner or later. getting worse and worse prices onlineshopping is also a huge concern.

Etterra

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Not that I needed another reason to dislike TikTok but...

Gammelfisch

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The chairwoman for the AfD, Alice Weidel, worked for the Bank of China. It would not surprise me if she used her connections with the CCP and TikTok to persuade the fucking idiots in Thüringen.

Soup

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So… wait. Everyone is back to hating TikTok again?

BruceTwarzen

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Was it ever any different? People who use it like it and people who don't, hate it.

MediaBiasFactChecker

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::: spoiler DW News - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report) Information for DW News:

MBFC: Left-Center - Credibility: High - Factual Reporting: High - Germany
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::: spoiler Search topics on Ground.News https://www.dw.com/en/tiktok-likely-helped-far-right-in-german-elections-analysts/a-70114669 ::: Media Bias Fact Check | bot support