Germany resumes deportations to Afghanistan
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https://www.reuters.com/world/germany-says-it-resumes-deportations-afghanistan-2024-08-30/
https://www.reuters.com/world/germany-says-it-resumes-deportations-afghanistan-2024-08-30/
Thereby appeasing racists and shifting the compass, whilst shitting on human rights. Good work!
Why do people fall for these stupid populistic statements?
We in Germany value human rights. We have some of the most pro-asylum laws and culture in the world. Which is part of the reason right wing parties like the AfD get popular.
The problem is, not every human is a saint, not even asylum seekers. Some come here without having a valid reason for asylum, because they are not actually persecuted. Others come here with the express intent to criminally exploit our welfare system. There's lots of reasons to come here, but not all of them warrant asylum. These people should seek to immigrate properly like anybody else and not exploit our hospitality offered to people in need.
Now, under our previous Merkel government, we welcomed hundreds of thousands of refugees in an unusually short timeframe. Our chronically overworked and slow bureaucracy became even easier to exploit, many could simply wait out time limits on their asylum requests, making them automatically accepted without any check for validity.
I was an active volunteer helping arriving refugees get accommodated in their assigned first quarters (often old empty barracks, I helped with trips to all kinds of bureaucratic necessities, but also got a central free Wi-Fi set up for everyone to use and stuff like that), and funnily enough the most vivid calls for stricter handling of asylum requests and punishments for rule-breakers came from all the legitimate refugees: those were some of the most decent people, and they hated being associated by their status with any criminal refugees. The assigned building security and police quickly learned that they actually had to be swift in picking up fresh offenders, before street justice would be applied by their "fellow" refugees.
In short: We have laws and we try to follow, them. It's not always easy.
Also, asylum is different from immigration, I feel many people forget that. If conditions in your place of origin have improved, you are expected to leave. Asylum is inherently temporary, contrary to migration. And if you violate the trust and resources your host nation has given you, you should suffer legal consequences, just like any regular citizen. Committing hard felony crimes is obviously not a nice way to repay that trust, and as consequence we ask you to leave. If you refuse to do so in a (very) sufficient timeframe, we can use it executive power (police) to force you.
Last but not least.... Each of these criminals even got 1000€ cash upon exiting the plane in their home country, just to ensure they have zero risk of having to live in inhuman conditions while they get reacquainted in their home society ( e.g. get an apartment and a job). Because that risk alone would be reason enough to make even the worst terrorist ineligible for deportation. Because it's a basic human right to not have to live in extreme poverty and/or hunger.
I think that's pretty much the opposite of "shitting on human rights" and definitely not what I expect many other nations would do with such foreign felons.
Meh scum can fuck right off. No sympathy for rapists.
For all the downvoters. Read the fucking article. I'm talking about scum, not refugees in general. Fucking hell.
Those 28 people sent back are conflicted felons. All of them committed serious crimes (Schwerverbrechen)
what the fuck is this?
An actual informed opinion instead of just an outraged comment?
Sir, this is Lemmy, I'll have to ask you to leave!
scum rapists
What is happening? I dunno, called out on your hateful rhetoric, perhaps? The article does not mention their crimes, just that they are convicted felons, but still people.
The article links to the above also, which resulted in the suicide of someone who spent his whole adult life in Germany who was deported to Afghanistan. Is he also "scum"?
Maybe people know more than what's written in the article. Say, they might have read the German press. Like this article.
28 people, all convicted of serious crimes, examples given are a rapist, someone who got into trouble with the law 150 times, we have attempted manslaughter, aggravated robbery, aggravated bodily harm, another rapist, more aggravated bodily harm, more rape.
Three were held back by the state attorneys saying they want to prosecute further and/or want them to sit in prison for longer, two were not at home when police came to arrest them, one of those is now a fugitive.
Oh and all get 1000 Euros so they won't straight-up starve on arrival.
Since they do not even seem to know why he was deported, no he was not. I don't know what that article has to do with me not liking rapists and murderers though. Non refugee ones can be shot into space for all I care as well.
Deportation as reaction to crime or deviation is a failure of the justice system: a) Deportation to current Afghanistan for rape is not much of a penalty. b) Deprivation of liberty (jail) allegedly serves social rehabilitation; jail is thus supposed to display Täterarbeit, work with/on perpetrators to achieve accountability. Deportation of criminals deprives a society of justice.
A deported rapist isn't going to rape any of the natives and citizens anymore.
As for the women of Afghanistan, at least the Taliban will protect their dignity and Allāh will not forget them. /s
A deported rapist isn’t going to rape any of the natives and citizens anymore.
So if I understood you correctly, "natives and citizens" symbolises people in Germany in context.
Deporting unwanted behaviour doesn't lessen its effect in both societies, which are likely connected in some way anyways (ie not North Korea). Rape is still bad for a society if it exists in other societies, because the non-prevention (not working on perpetrators/would-be perpetrators) and subsequent normalisation of rape harms everyone.
Deportation of unwanted behaviour is a bit like exporting toxic waste; don't expect the poison not to come back in some way.
You make decent points.
However, it seems that in some ways neither society takes rape seriously.
In the case of many Western justice systems, such as Germany, the rapists aren't seriously dealt with—the word "coddle" comes to mind, and we dare not mention that Islamic culture seems to tolerate rape even more.
So how do we deal with rapists?
Longer sentences? Too costly and many have criticized imprisonment.
Castration? It seems to tame other male mammals and ensures that the rapes won't result in pregnancies, but many think it's barbaric.
Social engineering—as all, or almost all, men are to varying degrees potential rapists, all need to be treated—which at the very least would mean more annoying PSAs that millions of non-violent men must suffer.
an additional court system for rape, where the burden of proof is lighter, but so are the punishments?
Idk.
But it seems that many men, who found refuge in a country that millions of Afghanis would probably love to go to but won't be allowed in, who squandered the goodwill with violations of those among its more vulnerable natives and citizens, are being sent away; and I don't think they will have that easy a time in Afghanistan. Perhaps they will be regarded as fools, as un-Islamic for leaving, easily identified if they come from some small village.
but if they stay in Germany, there might be one of 2 results:
the process reformed them, and they won't violate again—possible but I wouldn't count on it.
they are not reformed, and will violate again.
Also keep in mind that this isn't really "exporting toxic waste", but rather sending it back to where it originated, and if we are concerned with rape victims, maybe Germany could take an additional 5x that number of female refugees from Afghanistan, including their daughters and sons under 6 (the older ones possibly been too corrupted by Islamic Afghani culture).
No it is not. Once the justice system did it's thing and people where convicted and incarcerated, they no longer meet the criteria for beiing allowed to stay in the country.
This in turn means the country has a legal obligation to zod you the F- out of their country and in the case of Germany.. out of the Schengen/EU area. The person's home country is Afghanistan, so that is where they go.
These people where informed of the strickt rules that apply to their staying in Germany, they ignored those rules and now they exhausted all their legal options to try and stay, end of the road, one way plane ride.
150% political manoeuvring before the elections. The federal government changing their policy as to whom to extend subsidiary protection to really doesn't do anything as it's state courts which have the ultimate say whether someone can be deported.
...and yes that means that in the extreme Germany has 16 different opinions on which countries are safe to deport people to.
I find it amusing that you believe German bureaucracy to be versatile and efficient enough to be able to be steered so quickly by spontaneous political will.
No, deportations are rare because we take asylum rights as a basic human right extremely seriously and there are an unbelievable amount of reasons a deportation can be called off. Each of these deportations takes months, if not years of preparation by the interior ministry ( executive), leading to lots of legal consultations and usually legal battles in court due to appeals, intense diplomatic talks with the recipient country ( especially in this case, because Germany refuses direct diplomatic ties with the Taliban and Qatar had to play middle -man) and only then the actual forced deportation itself can be tactically planned and organized. And there's tons of very specific rules, even for how and when police may or may not pick up a deportee during the night and if/what charter flights can be used.
So definitely no spontaneous politicking. The change in policy to start enforcing existing extradition orders more rigorously started years ago when the current government got elected. It's a very slow and arduous process still.
I find it amusing that you believe German bureaucracy to be versatile and efficient enough to be able to be steered so quickly by spontaneous political will.
I believe that it is able to receive new orders, even on short notice so that politicians can make speeches. That has nothing to do witch actual processing speed. On the contrary, in fact, they might very well have to re-open a case file they just closed and start from scratch. Sisyphus has nothing on German bureaucrats.
It also doesn't mean that they follow those new orders until a court reminds them to, not all new orders trickle down to everywhere they should.
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VOA
Germany repatriates first group of Afghan refugees since Taliban takeover
Violent offenders and sex offenders were reportedly among the Afghans sent back Friday, including a man who took part in the gang rape of a 14-year-old girl.
Why yes not all of them gang raped a little girl but all of them are convicted felons. If that plane were to crash the only things of value lost would be the lives of the flight personnel.
I struggle to see in which state of law, under which declaration of human rights or under which democratic constitution the notion "convicted felon = life has no value" is remotely acceptable.
I am not a court of law. I am not asking for them to be killed or even harmed beyond their sentences either, this is purely a moral assessment. The convicts aren't just petty thieves, all hardened criminals or worse. I don't have to want them to die, but I also don't have to care if they do.
Would you lose any sleep if either of them died for any reason?
The notion, that a human life has "no value" is contradictory to all established standards of ethics and morality. And established usually means for them to be written down in such a way.
Also we don't know which crimes they were convicted of exactly. And the involved German states made a point of hiding it.
Would you lose any sleep if either of them died for any reason?
By that metric almost all human lifes would be worthless, because plenty of "good" people are victims of murder or other crimes every day and you can still sleep.
Just a small correction: the involved German states did not "make it a point to hide" the individual crimes from being published. Instead this happens because we in Germany place a comparably very high value on privacy. And yes, even criminal scum gets theirs protected by neither naming them nor their crimes. Even convicted criminals' names are never published on principle unless they have become public figures through other means anyway.
And the crimes were not detailed because knowing the specific combinations of crimes and sentences would make it too easy to identify them, given there's only 28 of them.
The idea of protecting privacy so much is that by having completed their sentences, they should have the same opportunity as anyone else in life and not be "tarnished" forever.
The notion, that a human life has “no value” is contradictory to all established standards of ethics and morality.
Would you have lost sleep if any of the assassination attempts on Hitler had succeeded? Did you break out in tears, felt bereaved, when he shot himself, proclaiming that his people betrayed him?
You can moral high-horse all you want. At some point you just don't care whether someone makes it. That doesn't mean that you want them dead -- it means that they're too much of an assclown to care about: Because either you stop caring about them, or you become a doormat for them. They will exploit and monopolise your empathy, making you lose the capacity to care about and aid people who are, indeed, more worthy of your empathy and support than fucking Hitler.