She is killing it. He made a huge fucking mistake lying about her on video to the world. She just wanted to be left alone and go to college. Now she's out to expose him.
And he really should have known better. This is a woman who, without any need to do so, put it on the court record that she disowned him at a formality hearing to register a name change a couple of years ago. No one asked her, no one expected her to say it, she just wanted a legal record of her disowning one of the richest men in the world when she could have just waited for him to die and see if she inherited anything.
Check out her interview. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/elon-musk-transgender-daughter-vivian-wilson-interview-rcna163665
Before that, I could only imagine what sort of horrible father he was to prompt her to do that. Now I know exactly what sort of horrible father he was.
“I lost my son, essentially,” Musk said. He used Wilson’s birth name, also known as a deadname for transgender people, and said she was “dead, killed by the woke mind virus.”
i don't have kids but i can't even comprehend someone saying something like that about their own child
That's nothing compared to what she's said he's said to her directly. No exact quotes, but she made it pretty clear that he was constantly saying homophobic things to her. And that was before she transitioned and he just thought she was gay.
I'm no psychologist or sociologist, but it seems that most of the people who treat their kids this way had kids because of external expectations or for status. They treat their kids like property or as an extension of themselves. Raising them to be cis no matter what is not about their child's well-being, it's about how having a trans child makes them look in the eyes of their bigoted, greedy, status-seeking, peers. When their kids come out as trans, they see this as a personal attack on their place in the pecking order.
In general, they treat even their cis children like shit, because they don't think of their children as people, children are just assets in what they think is some kind of cosmic dick measuring contest.
It's incomprehensible because it's pathological and generally sick.
Yes, the thought/behavior patterns aren't unique to transphobia. I always refer back to this beautiful guardian op ed https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/aug/11/devastated-by-my-sons-tattoo
It's a work of art I love it so much. wish some voice actor would do a dramatic reading.
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He’s just building up his conservative cred.
Harden the mind against silly weak things like compassion: check
Treat your family like property: check
“Woke mind virus”: lol
Luckily, you sound like you consider kids to be their own individuals and not little copies of yourself for you to control like puppets.
Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for every parent.
Robert Evan’s (AKA Podcast Daddy) had a piece about this. His denial of his daughter’s transition is of a piece with his pro-natalist stance and his desire to colonize space. He is trying to become immortal. His child transitioning marks her as her own person, rather than an extension of him, which reinforces the fact that he will die one day.
How does that reinforce it? I want to be immortal too, but I want my kids to be independent and strong.
I can't wrap my head around how someone who wants to be a transhuman would have a problem with transgender humans. How does he not see that leopard coming to eat his face?
I can't imagine saying stuff like this about someone else's kids, let alone my own. I have a non-binary kid, who I love with all my heart. The only thing my wife and I want them to be is happy. I get that having your kid tell you that they're the wrong gender is hard to deal with - I don't want to minimize that - but it's not like it's harder than what the kids themselves are dealing with.
I really love that she keeps owning him on threads, too. It's just that extra little twist of the knife. She's proof that we don't have to suck just because our families do.
What’s the situation you’re referring to about him lying about her on video? I know he’s said a lot of shitty stuff about her but I’m not aware of the context of that sentence
One thing I noticed, and you can check this for yourself too, is that American media outlets constantly refer to her as 'Elon Musks transgender daughter', and it really bothers me it's not just 'Elon Musks Daughter.'
So I checked, and the BBC, CTV News (canadian), CBC (also canadian) all just refer to her as his daughter.
I absolutely love that she's bringing the lumber, but I could really do with news organizations not using that as her identifier. She's not 'Elon Musk's transgender daughter.' She's Vivian Jenna Wilson, she doesn't even consider Elon her father. I'll let her speak for herself here:
(From her name change):
“I no longer live with or wish to be related to my biological father in any way, shape or form,” she wrote on the petition.
“I would like to emphasize one thing: I am an adult,” she said, according to NBC. “I am 20 years old. I am not a child. My life should be defined by my own choices.”
I hate to say it, but until trans people are normalized in American society, pointing out that his daughter is trans is probably necessary for people to understand why Elon says he lost his son.
You’re not wrong, but I think we all really wish you were.
Sad thing is, clarifying Elon’s hatred by pointing his daughter is trans, gives credence to his take in some folks’ eyes.
The conversation maybe ugly, but it still has to be had.
He thinks the school system did this to his child, and he's on a mission to stop the woke because of it.
You cant get that across when you just say his daughter.
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But you don't have to get that across in every discussion of her, either - that moves from discussing his vendetta over to defining her by it.
You cant get that across when you just say his daughter.
That's why you read the whole article, not just the headline
It also factors into Elon's hatred of 'woke mind virus'. Her transition has become an important event to explain him and their relationship. Sadly we rarely discuss her outside of an Elon context. At least so far.
Is it though? It just legitimizes it as a reason to separate her from other women. Until I see "So-and-So's cis-gendered hetero daughter" I think we can agree it's singling them out, not highlighting something in good faith. For example, and this is the BBC's:
Elon Musk: Billionaire's daughter cuts ties with her father | BBC
She's a woman, who from what I can see is emancipated from her father. He's a sack of shit, she's voicing that. That's the story.
He didn't lose a son because she is transgender. He lost a child because he's a shitty father. And he thinks he lost a son because he is also a transphobe who refuses to accept her daughter. The why isn't her gender, the why is Musks transphobia and shitty parenting.
IMO if you want to normalize trans people you should treat them like people and not stick a huge "transgender" sign above them.
If a lazy American just reads that Musk's daughter disowned him, they're not going to understand why and they will be less inclined to read on. I'm afraid that's just how things are.
Headlines don't typically contain the entire context. You have to actually read the article for the why.
Seems to me like that's exactly what we're talking about- explaining things simply to lazy Americans.
I think a big difference here is that you keep saying that this legitimizes him or his behaviour. That does not seem at all obvious to many of us.
Pointing out these facts provides context for those of us that don’t know. I do not believe it legitimizes anything. If you see it that way, you are probably on the extreme end of the issue ( either side ).
This is not an accusation. I can feel your genuine concern that it legitimizes his statements. I want to reassure you that it does not. The people that will take it as evidence of legitimacy do not need a reason to feel right. So who cares what they think?
It never would have occurred to me that her gender or gender history somehow supported Elon Musk until you started to say so.
I suspect that it's more for "engagement" and clickbait than malice from the headline writer.
that is if you don't think that this kind of communication isn't harmful to the human race at least. Which it is. Obviously.
I agree it's not to intentionally target her maliciously, but it is malicious: how does the story change if you just say 'daughter'? If she was a Catholic convert would it be 'Elon Musks Transgender Catholic Daughter'? I understand part of his hatred towards her is that she's transgendered, but we don't have to allow that. And as I said, other news agencies aren't (all) doing that.
I do by best to try to refer to her as his ex daughter. Maybe it’s just my own relationship with my own disowning but it’s definitely a valuable distinction imo
Yeah I think by calling her his ex daughter it’s an acknowledgment that the father shaped wound on her is an aching scar not something that’s going to heal nice and fine. A lot of people like to respond to disowning like it’s definitely going to be temporary and everything will be fine again. It does tend to be temporary, but sometimes it isn’t and it’s healthy to deal with it as if it probably won’t be but might be. It’s not comforting to hear it probably will be anyways. And even if the connection is reestablished it’s always going to bear that damage. The baseline level of trust that parents are supposed to have of being your first and most secure source of support and love is gone.
I do not expect Ms. Wilson and Mr. Musk to ever reconcile. His behavior towards her has been atrocious as was his behavior towards her mother. Furthermore Mr. Musk seems to be completely incapable of accepting responsibility for his bad behavior.
I resonate with your sentiment and applaud you bringing it up, but in this case I feel it's pretty relevant to the story. It's the trans aspect that caused Musk to say a bunch of shitty stuff about her to begin with. If the story was about her winning the lottery or something else unrelated, I'd be 100% with you.
My point is their legitimizing his reasoning. They're saying this is the reason he did it. Let him say that. Never let him try to shy away from it, make it so if he's going to misgender/deadname/etc he's openly doing it.
Think about it, the story title should go:
"Elon Musks daughter speaks out about her fathers homophobia, bigotry, etc"
Let him try to legitimize it and fail, don't give him the step up first. Make him look like the lunatic he is for raving about his 'dead son' or whatever, let him hang himself with his own rope. She even says:
“I would like to emphasize one thing: I am an adult,” she said, according to NBC. “I am 20 years old. I am not a child. My life should be defined by my own choices.”
She had no choice in this at all, she is who she is, so we need to stop helping make a minor part of her identity her identifying characteristic.
I agree with what you're saying to a point. As a trans person, the media doesn't care about us, we're nothing more than a headline to them. But saying she's trans doesn't legitimize anything. The sad truth is that this is the reason he did it. Highlighting the fact that his daughter is trans just shows the hypocrisy of saying you're all about family values while spewing hateful rhetoric about your own family.
I don't personally feel it legitimizes it at all, but regardless, journalists should report all the relevant facts, not withhold some to make a point. Her being trans is relevant to the story. If I read a news article on it that didn't report that, and then I found out later, if probably stop reading that publication because it would have been shown to be withholding facts to make some point.
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14 words breeder shit
For those who don't get the reference, she's calling him a literal NAZI.
Wow, what a load of crap. I wonder if Musk really talked about that stuff, which would be taking his shittiness to the next level.
He talks about it openly. "Falling birthrates" and "the great replacement" are dog whistles for "white genocide". They're talking about how "the white race" is going to "lose" because the white people are outnumbered by people of color.
It's such garbage. I'm not sure why anyone cares about anyone else's skin tone. I'm lilly white, but I wouldn't care at all if everyone in the world was an even brown at some future time. Why would I?
A lot of people cope by convincing themselves they're innately "better" than some outgroup. For some people it's music taste, for some people it's skin color, etc. A lot of it is subtle bigotry learned during childhood from media and parents. Elon grew up in apartheid South Africa with a father who owned part of an emerald mine, I feel like that could explain a lot.
There's also something to be said about the addictive nature of conspiracy theories. Elon was always a "wacky guy" or whatever but there was definitely a point where he went from a typical rich dick to whatever the fuck this is and he seems like he's pretty far down the "aliens built the pyramids" to "jewish people run the world" pipeline.
transcription: @elonmusk tweets "There is a tiny possibility there might be more to this story than meets the eye" about an article titled "The Awful Truth: Paul Pelosi Was Drunk Again, And In a Dispute With a Male Prostitute Early Friday..." from smobserved.com
white supremacy is deeply ingrained in US history and culture. It's what the country has been about for 100s of years, it's why the US committed genocide, it's why lynching was a family picnic affair. It's not going to slowly fade away. If it isn't explicitly stamped out, it's here to stay.
Oh. Those 14 words. I thought there was another set of words specifically against child free people.
I appreciate you remembering not everyone is tuned into this stuff to the same degree. I just immediately thought “oh, he’s a nazi? That scans” when I saw the 14 words reference.
The interview she gave with NBC says she's a college student studying languages, so if nothing else, she could have a good life as a translator. And you don't generally study languages plural in college if you're not very smart.
Yea, I mean she is 20 years old and has her shit together more than many of my friends who are at least a decade older. She's definitely alright.
She's Elon's kid, and she had to suffer through being trans in a society that doesn't broadly accept it (and at least one parent who doesn't), so she's got a lot going against her, but she sure seems to speak out with self confidence, so I hope she's one of those who was able to just grow from the hardships.
Don't forget who you were Elon. Trying to erase an image, almost like you no longer feel like that person anymore (or maybe never did)
Sometimes I doubt my skills as a father. Then I read shit like this and realize I’m doing alright.
I tell a lot of new parents that kids are amazingly resilient, so when you inevitably make mistakes, they'll likely be fine. On the other hand, they're amazingly sensitive and perceptive, so no matter how good of a job you do, you'll probably leave then with at least minor issues. I mean, if someone you know has zero emotional issues, it probably means you don't know them that well.
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Same. As with so many things in life, giving a shit and showing up get you like 80% of the way there.
language of the enemy
what have we done to him? I hate him even more than I did before reading this.
Edit: I didn't expect my comment to track. I may as well take this opportunity to post a Chrisitan Arab's perspective on Arabic
Consider a language spoken by Christians for more than fifteen hundred years. Its early masters composed exquisite poetry, pioneering a tradition that still flourishes today. Many of the great works of Christian thought were composed in this language; many of the most significant texts of philosophy, medicine, and astronomy were preserved in it. The Bible could be read in it for centuries before it could be read in English, French, German, or Spanish. Today it is spoken and written across Europe and North America, as well as Asia and Africa; it features prominently in modern political thought and advocacy. I am speaking, of course, of Arabic.
https://www.firstthings.com/article/2024/08/arabic-a-christian-language
I think it's the most beautiful and elegant looking writing system, as someone who can neither read nor speak it.
It is also true that "many" Westerners are more enlightened than that, but the ones that aren't always shout the loudest.
There are both many racist westerners and many enlightened ones.
Beware the hazard of minimizing how many of our countrymen are extremely racist. It's more prevalent than you might think. We know exactly what Elon is saying because we all know an asshole like that.
Especially how many will be extremely racist when the only people who they think will hear are their families.
The thing about many is that many people can think one thing while many can think otherwise. The fact that I still get thanked by Arab strangers for treating them like people indicates that it wasn’t some tiny minority of westerners. From what I’ve heard from Arabs and people mistaken for Arabs (such as Iranians and Muslim desi folks) a loud and significant minority were/are actively racist towards Arabs that was significantly larger during the early 00s. But also there’s a lot of passive racism, stuff like assuming Arabs don’t want to be friends, neighbors, or colleagues. Stuff like assuming Arabs’ views on various things.
I'm sorry to disappoint you but a sizeable proportion of westerners in my humble experience are racist towards Arabs and Muslims. It's literally the core of the platform under which the extreme right wing thrives in Europe
The reason why he hasn't sued her for libel is because he knows her lawyers would mop the floor with him with the disclosure.
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One of the core values of conservatism is removing regulations and protections for regular people against corporations, and giving them more power. That's what Elon believes in. The rest of it, like the "family values" and "religious rights" are just a smoke screen for the voters.
One of the core values of
conservatismcapitalism
FTFY ;) But yeah I think you're onto something. There is, I suspect, a kind of self delusion. He really only pursues power and ideology is merely a tool he uses. He's feeling the pressure economically because he likes the role of the captain of industry but he's starting to fuck up more and more with Tesla and SpaceX. So is growing extremism in the recent years isn't part of a rational thought or honest ideology but a narcissistic rationalization. He wants to continue being powerful and accumulating more power so he has to counter by embracing the more extreme ideology. But he doesn't really give a fuck about family, economy, society or anything.
If he only kept his mouth shut about politics and continued with his ideas I'd be fine with him being a flawed and scummy entrepreneur that still manages to move and change our global industry. Even if he steals the accomplishments of others and lies and over-promises he acts as an effective mouthpiece for ideas I like. He would have had a flawed legacy.
But instead he became this monstrosity.
Conservatism predates capitalism by quite a bit. Capitalism may have embraced conservatism, but it didn't create it
Well I really neither mean conservatism or capitalism but greed. Not an ideology at all. As a Sith might say it: There is only power. And those that seek power at all cost, and those who want other things. (same goes for power, wealth or influence). Ideology is just an interchangeable tool, not a belief.
Unfortunately anyone seeking power for "other things" like wanting to make things better has to compete with people who knowingly or unknowingly don't really give a shit about anything.
Anyway, outside current US politics conservatism really only means to continuing to do things the way they have been done so far and / or change things slowly. And actual conservative today would want to continue the social democratic system that made the US great, e.g. affordable healthcare, low education and university costs, high vertical mobility. Keep doing what works instead of trying to reinvent the wheel with crazy new and untested ideas. Theoretically conservatism is a perfectly valid and honorable approach to governance that you can compromise on.
Today's republicans are said to be reactionary or "paleo-conservative", that want to go back to the times pre new deal. They are not conservatives at all.
But really they are neither, they are just greedy or power hungry, completely self serving. They believe in nothing.
I suspect most are on the lower spectrum of sentience, and some people like Trump aren't even able to self-reflect at all and are permanently trapped in a kind of psychotic break. Like Musk they are intelligent and continue to optimize for their power seeking behavior but have made their minds completely subservient to the one ring power/money/influence.
Sorry for the long rant lol
and imagine achieving this with Elon as your parent, it is like starting a race of becoming a sensible person with a -10 penalty
Yeah, she said compared to the amount of time spent with her mom, despite them having joint custody, it was like 10% him and 90% her mom. And a lot of that 10% involved him berating her for not being "manly" enough.
Considering he still considers her male while also saying he lost his son, I don't think he knows what he wants.
I think it's the opposite, I think Musk had immense influence on her. Not connecting with your child is also influencing the child. She knows firsthand what a horrible person he is and has probably reflected on that to not be like him.
Social network and big data, Cambridge Analytica never died, it prospered like a hydra who only got one of its heads cut off. People who only went online to affirm their beliefs are now getting herded into like minded crazies and airheads that serve their purpose as subgroups of artificial movements. And nothing is going to be done about it because astrosurfing is a cornerstone of capitalism, apparently.
Her mother and her are still well off it seems. Might be cut off from the billions but still going to have an okay life in the millions.
Worthless times one hundred is still worthless. Please don't compare her to that piece of shit