https://www.intellinews.com/russian-wagner-mercenaries-spotted-amid-venezuela-election-protests-336763/?source=russia
Troops bearing insignia associated with Russia's Wagner Group have been observed among Venezuelan security forces during protests following the July ...
They don't have an MBFC page, which is a bit weird since according to their Wikipedia page they've been around for 26 years. I couldn't find any bias rating info on them anywhere.
The story seems a bit sketchy. IntelliNews attributes the video to Jason Jay Smart -- a political consultant and writer for the Kyiv Post. The video didn't originate with him though. About 6 hours earlier it was posted by 'The Spot News' who are probably a fake news organization*. They don't seem to have a web presence beyond that twitter account. Spot News was used as the source for this article from Defense-Blog that pre-dates the IntelliNews piece.
The earliest post with the video I can find is here from 'Ukraine News 24 Hours', who are also not really a news org and just link to a telegram account. They claim that they posted it but, who knows? Most references to the video describe it as "appearing online" without any attribution, which itself is a bit sketch. No one really reputable is reporting this (yet?).
If the video is fake or more verification by other outlets doesn't show up, I'll certainly take the post down.
Personally I don’t think it’s wrong to have it up; there is enough bullshit in the “factual” news that I think it’s okay if people see this interesting thing while still being aware of the context that maybe it is a weird mistake or means nothing at all. I was just - maybe for the first time - sort of actually wanting the bot to tell me more about this news source.
As a general rule, to me the model of “let me take the information and figure out for myself and based on comments whether I think it is well founded enough to take seriously” is better than “the mods and MBFC bot will keep me safe, anything untrustworthy should come down, anything that does stay up I can just accept uncritically because it’s had a stamp of being definitely trustworthy”.
Amateur news organization or unaccredited news organization are two better ways of referring to Twitter accounts with two guys and a camera.
At least in the case of 'The Spot News', I don't think that's what they are and I think it's giving them more legitimacy than they deserve. I don't believe it's a genuine effort to do reporting. They're posing as a news agency when they're just reposting stuff they find online. Even in that tweet, they're reposting a video as if it's their own.
There are a million of these grifty accounts/sites that claim to be 'The World's #1 Source for Global Breaking News'. Two people and a camera can do a lot of things, but they can't be that. The people and the camera can only be in one place at a time, right?
In just the last 12 hours, The Spot News have "covered" Aerosmith, an attack on Israel, Imane Khelif (with this scummy nugget: "Imane Khelif, who has male hormones and beats women, took refuge in Allah."), a Kirill Fedorov interview with a Russian soldier, bird-shaped Chinese drones, Eylem Tok's lawyer, and a Ukrainian attack on a Russian sub. That's quite the travel budget for a little operation out of Sheridan, Wyoming! They don't indicate who their "reporters" are. There isn't one human being associated with that account. These are all hallmarks of news grifters. What they're really doing is plagiarism.
'Ukraine News 24' doesn't make any big claims about being the world's top news source and, honestly, I'm not totally sure that they're even trying to claim that they're doing journalism even though they've identified themselves as a "media and news company." It seems more like news activism and 99% of what they seem to do is curate and amplify news about Ukraine (with attribution). There's no problem at all with them doing that. They don't seem to do any original reporting though. I was too harsh in equating those two but I think pointing out that they're not really a news org is appropriate because their name is kind of deceptive (intentionally or not).
Oh God it gets worse. There's like a hundred "spot news" accounts across X and YouTube, an app, and it's a general news term.
I mean its an open secret that the US likes to meddle in Venezuelan politics with varying degrees of military force. So it makes sense to me that Russia would also want to be there just because of that.
Yeah. Venezuela has a TON of oil which makes it of interest to anyone in the world who likes to go around fuckin with people and taking their stuff.
Venezuela's oil reserves are the last that should ever be pumped out of the ground in the world. It is thick sludge like bitumen, full of heavy metals and hard to extract and process because it has lots of Sulphur, so it's corrosive. It is almost as bad as burning coal and produces less high-value light hydrocarbons like gasoline and more bunker fuel that can only be used in tankers and industry...which are heavy polluters.
I'm almost tempted to say that it would be better for those reserves to be under the control of a backwards dictator who won't be able to develop them or privatize them, but China has its eyes on exploiting those reserves too, not just the US, so even that unethical argument is moot.
Isn't the whole point that oil is easy for anyone to exploit, including backwards dictators? Unlike say, semiconductor manufacture which requires complex processes and therefore a functioning society
Not always, Venezuelan oil requires high investment and gives low return (compared with other reserves), so it requires a competent government who can keep a level of education/safety and/or can let expertise flow in and set up infrastructure with an expectation that they will get a long term return. At this rate neither are going to happen and Venezuela is fucked unless China goes all in (I don't think China is going to go all in).
This former minister explains that the reasons the military are backing Maduro are mainly financial, not political https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UtcbV9HuHq8 Venezuela is essentially bankrupt and they can't default on debt to China without getting into bigger problems or becoming fully dependent on the IMF/US.
Hey from a Russian-Ukrainian American guy I want to say thank you for actually caring about the facts and not just eating up the propaganda (because honestly I did)
Yeah for the presence of mercenaries it's best to wait for corroboration. But the election in Venezuela has been heading news since the night Maduro abruptly stopped counting votes, refused to release detailed results, and just declared victory. Then the opposition turned out to literally have the receipts.
Yeah it's been kind of a big deal.
I think it's obvious that Putin has to be killed in the name of global political stability.
I'd rather have him tried and imprisoned at the Hague. He destroys institutions. Institutions must destroy him in the end, not guns.
PS: and before the tankies rush in with their whataboutisms: Sinwar, Netanyahu and Dubbya should be made an example of too.
Unfortunately, the United States and Israel (ironically) have all but neutered The Hague….
I don't know why you're being downvoted. The American Service-Members' Protection Act, known informally as The Hague Invasion Act, is a United States federal law described as "a bill to protect United States military personnel and other elected and appointed officials of the United States government against criminal prosecution by an international criminal court to which the United States is not party".
Not an expert on the ICC but I don’t think they have any means of enforcement other than public pressure on the international stage, or another country arresting the war criminal and then handing them over….
Yeah, you know what's great for global political stability? Assassinating the heads of state of countries with massive nuclear arsenals.
Also put Russian astroturfers on that list that have to be killed in the name of global political stability.
Skull and crossbones patch?
Are we sure they're not just gravy seals who bought some military surplus and decked them out with pirate patches?
I mean if you've met some of the old boy shot callers who work with or for the CIA, yeah no they could totally pull the disguise with a wardrobe change and some fake sunburn makeup.
Most of the actual work that goes on there is data analysis, and that means tech workers, and that means the saged guru tech workers who live out of a single family home that's less expensive than their home lab, their backup servers, their backup backup servers in a compound in montana, the backup backup backup servers in a bunker in New Zealand, and the thoroughbred they got for their horse girl daughter because these guys are usually also complete suckers for their kids or even younger siblings if there's a wide enough age gap, as I found out that one such guru was technically the half brother of this girl I had AP microeconomics with.
I love how you go off the rails, I really do. There's a lot I'd like to say, but probably shouldn't.
Would you believe me if I told you my ability to tangent into subjects I know someone is interested in is part of how I got into it with my current SO?
I make them laugh and giggle a lot, it's the cutest crushy giggle you'd have ever heard
BRB, going to delete all my comments, and take your advice on firewalling my precious precious data.
If you're genuinely serious, a beginner's server box and some CLI training will usually be enough for your average person's storage needs, especially with a proper personal VPN connection.
Only people who need entire racks are those aforementioned gurus because they're working with whole computer images which can be hundreds if not thousands of gigs, and people who are trying to torrent all of known visual media in human history to create a personal free streaming service, which will almost definitely land you in a court room courtesy of your ISP ratting you out to the authorities.
Yeah. /s It’s the Russians…
Wait. Is that current Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Machado meeting with war criminal George Bush in 2005, after the 2002 coup attempt ?
Ah yes. An image of Russia halfway across the world RIGHT NOW doing stuff in a place they really can't afford to waste resources on since they're currently in a special military operation... Must be Bush's fault from 20 years ago.
/s
Wow you must be a very special person if you think a US leader from 20 years ago had anything to do with Putin's choices now.
Weird:
More weirdness:
Even more weirdness:
Here's a question. Have you actually spoken to anyone of Venezuelan heritage about the situation there? Because someone I worked closely with at my old job had told us about what was going on, and he loathed Maduro and said Guaido was the rightful president.
Machado can have uncomfortable ties to Republicans and Netanyahu, and Maduro can still be an unrightful president. This isn't a binary. It's rarely a binary, in fact. The USSR was pretty bad. The US is pretty bad. When the two had competing operations during the Cold War, was one bad and one good? Or were they both bad?
The opposite of bad isn't always good. Sometimes it can also be bad -- even a greater evil.
Argument from Anecdote, irrelevant.
Yes, both sides can be bad. But one is a recognized government, while the other is treasonous opposition to that government with foreign interference. If a government is not allowed to have sovereign independence internationally, then it destabilizes global relations and threatens world peace. If it’s wrong when Russia or China does it, then it’s wrong when America does it.
Sanctioning Venezuela and destabilizing the government punishes the people needlessly. The people suffering migrate and strain resources in other countries. All so a few billionaires can profit from the pillaging of these regions.
Weird you failed to address why a military asset wouldn't be participating in Russia's current "special operations" and instead is in another country clear across the world...
But somehow you think it's odd that politicians are meeting with politicians. Which is not only a common occurrence, but I would actually call my politicians incompetent if they didn't do.
You realize this is a completely different ball game right? You would expect leaders to be talking to each other. You wouldn't expect military assets somewhere that they aren't active in.
The correct answer is that we don't know if it's actually Russian military. This is rumor at best. But your brain is so wired by whoever indoctrinated you to believe that Russia can't do any bad you can't even think straight.
Allow me to address a question the pro-Russian guy keeps dodging; Wagner is no longer participating in the Ukraine war. I don't know the full details but after their mutiny, they were sent back to Africa and other foreign countries far from Russia and have been working to shore up Russian-friendly dictatorships and regimes. But they have been kept well away from Ukraine and Russia ever since. Part of what they've been doing is selling and advertising their services as consultants and support to keep people in power. This helps Russia build influence which is something it desperately needs right now. Wagner being in Venezuela would not be strange. It would mean the guy who is yelling about the CIA trying to overthrow him has accepted Russian help. In fact considering how active Wagner has been in involving themselves anywhere where they can get a foothold it'd be weird if Wagner weren't in Venezuela.
they were sent back to Africa
Right... Where Russia was attempting to sell "Russian Protection"... I could understand them being there. But there's no ties to south America as far as I'm aware. Though admittedly, I haven't looked to keep myself up to date there.
This helps Russia build influence which is something it desperately needs right now.
They need it even more after what's happening in Mali... I don't think any South American country would take to kindly to Russia at this point.
It would mean the guy who is yelling about the CIA trying to overthrow him has accepted Russian help.
Eh, I'd buy it... but my arguments weren't a point that it's impossible... But that the other guy couldn't keep his head straight for 3 seconds to actually bring a cogent point. It's just frothing at the mouth "Russia good, USA bad", "See these politicians doing their jobs‽ Stop looking at the military assets."
You wouldn't expect military assets somewhere that they aren't active in.
Like María Machado, an unelected civilian, meeting with American politicians? Like how she entered an alliance with Likud?
Venezuelan Opposition Presidential Candidate María Corina Machado
This is how you described them. They are a politician then... Yes, you would expect them to meet with and converse with other politicians.
Please explain why a possible Russian MILITARY asset would be in Venezuela. Please explain how these are the same.
Was she a presidential candidate in 2005 when she met with Bush?
Maduro is the elected president (disputed or not). The government is allowed to form partnerships and have diplomatic relationships with foreign governments. It’s treasonous for citizens of a nation to enter monetary and political agreements with foreign governments opposed to their country of residence.
That literally happened before some people here were even born and before plenty were old enough to remember it.
Maybe try an example that's within their living memory too... if you have one?
One of the conspiracies around Prigozhin's death suggested that he was alive in Margarita island in Venezuela... which makes no sense. But finding wagner's mdrcenaries in Venezuela is kind of quaint.
Edit: vzla to venezuela
Yes, it’s beneficial to have a PMC
With different (totally not under Russia) leadership they went back to Africa
We've already seen what Ukraine will do in response to a confirmed sighting in Mali.
Venezuela is about to see a plot straight out of Operation Nemesis play out.
Wagner Group? Weren't they part of the anti-Putin Faction when the war with Ukraine started to go downhill?
I would be surprised to learn they're operating anywhere at all.
If you're a 40k fan familiar with the theory that the 2nd and 11th legions had their marines glommed into the Fists and Blueberries...
...that.
Hey, there's literally no evidence they were traitors and, in fact, probably weren't because we know what they do with traitor legions and it's different.
However, knowing about them is treason and so is talking about them, double traitor.
You just admitted you knew about them and talked about them.
We're going out together brother!
Spreads arm to embrace impending core cracker bomb
Pish posh, I'm a software engineer, we're basically the exact same thing! Inscrutable incantations that we don't know how exactly it makes the machine do what we need it to and all!
I thought you were talking about Wagner for a second and I was really confused. At any rate please step this way to meet the Commissar.
