is judging people based on what others have done not the whole point of Catholicism?
Matthew 7:3: “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
is judging people based on what others have done not the whole point of
Catholicismall Christianity?
Oh I'm totally Judging you too catholic. Any religious nuts btw
You want to believe in something go ahead that's healthy,
You want to be part of a money making, rule setting, kid raping, woman killing (see how any religion applies?!) organization that tells you how and what you have to believe and that some people are less than others?! Then you are fucked up
"see how any religion applies?!"
Atheist of fundamentalist protestant extraction. Aren't like some of the Buddhists pretty cool? Especially the Zen Buddhists. Also, Sikhs seem cool. And the Jainists.
I could totally be wrong. Organized religion is a terrible thing in almost all of my experience.
Wiccans have been real cool in my experience. They have really fun orgies.
You're right. It should say "most religions". Jainists are the top example of a non harmful religion but very few Jainists exist. Sikhs do seem pretty cool but I haven't done too much research on them. Buddhism is actually rife with violence and encourages masochism though the Zen sect is definitely better.
I think the real point though is that saying, "I'm religious", should be an embarrassing and negative statement. Not something that means the person should automatically be given the benefit of the doubt because a minority of religious people are just harmlessly misinformed. It's like saying, "I'm a cannibal, but don't worry, I'm part of a special Zen cannibal sect that only eats people after they die of natural causes and consented to being eaten because we think that it really helps the circle of life and the environment". It's not technically hurting anyone but it's still weird and when you hear cannonball in general you should still automatically assume that person is dangerous.
Different person sticking their nose in, but I really respect what the Satanic Temple is doing. Like in general, but also specifically their stance that religion should not be ceded as the territory of superstition.
Like it or not, religion is one of the fundamental building blocks of community. It provides gathering. At its best it encourages sharing, both of burdens and of blessings. Prayer is so often just meditation focused on helping one another.
I was raised in Christianity, and I am downright resentful of so much of what they did to me. But god I miss the community. Kink is the closest thing I have found in secularism.
No Satanic Temple near me unfortunately. I'd love to have something like that in my life.
Holy cow! I have my TST card and everything. Kink has been incredibly important to my girl and I building a feeling of community.
Was in the hospital once. My family organized prayer circles and shit and I had to shut off Facebook. Then they tried to do some deathbed conversion shit while I was on heavy opiates. I giggled at the guy they sent to my room and called him an alien. The kink community brought my girl, and our former partner, food and ran errands for us. Ran interference with the hospital over our poly realtionship. The kink community took care of my people when I couldn't.
Like any other community, it has its problems, but has been pretty wholesome.
I bet you and I would get along well.
Agreed on all accounts. I hope that things like the Satanic Temple will be the norm someday where people can have a community without the lies and abuse that are currently synonymous with religion. Interesting about Kink. Glad it's working out for you.
The main thing for me is that spirituality and faith don't need organization. If you believe in buddah and his teachings go fo it, you don't need a temple to tell you how to do it. If you believe in jesus just follow his word you don't need to supporr and give money to a company just so you have a building to go pray.
God, Jesus, Buddah, Allah, Shiva, Ogun, the great pastafari... it doesn't matter who you believe they don't care about buildings, gold and pretty clothes and they don't need a "special" person to "guide" you throgh you faith.
Your faith is yours only
Edit: Just to add that a community that supports you and helps you when you need has nothing to do with religion. It can be your neighbours, school friends, work friends, even relatives sometimes lol
You want to be part of a money making, rule setting, kid raping, woman killing (see how any religion applies?!)
With the “see how any religion applies” part you are so close to recognizing that this is a strawman argument.
You can take any sufficiently large group of people and find bad subgroups. You can take any sufficiently large organization and find corruption.
Your statement can apply to more than just religion. You could apply it to any country, for example.
And Veggietales (screenshot in the meme) is a Christian-themed show for a Christian audience.
If you had any sense you wouldn't claim to be part of an organized religion that shielded people who raped kids. They shouldn't shield people who are killing kids and committing genocide. These are pretty easy judgements for me and even Bob sees it.
I mean yeah many religions have extreme sects that will enforce harsh consequences for not participating.
Ok so specifically if I choose not identify as a catholic, go to church, support or to give money to the Catholic church will anything happen to me inside the United States in 2024? And My follow up question does this mean I cannot or do not still believe in the same "God"?
Ah so you get to the important part: if you go to a sane Catholic Church in the United States, choose to identify as catholic or not, choose to donate or otherwise support the church or not, choose to believe in “the same God” or not, nothing will happen to you.
Similarly, said church won’t be responsible for the previously mentioned horrible things.
Also similarly, if you refuse to pay taxes in the U.S., the absolute worst that will happen to you is you spend some time in jail, but unless you are someone like Al Capone it won’t go that far. You certainly won’t be killed.
The overall point is, extrapolating the most extreme minority of an inhomogeneous group to make assumptions about every individual in the group is a strawman fallacy of an argument.
In jail my life would be to essential over. Like this conversation with you. You have to draw the line somewhere. If I could exist as I wished without giving my taxes to a government that uses them to drop bombs on kids i would make that choice. I also would vote for whoever promises to not do that. You know doing the bare minimum. Like not covering up for, expelling from my organization, and prosecuting pedophilles. But whatever makes you feel better about supporting kid fuckers.
Most people engage in religion in ways that doesn’t have anything to do with the horrible things the worst people who practice that religion do.
My local church flies a pride flag. If you want to support getting bad priests out of church, make sure that the church you attend, donate to, and volunteer for represents your values. You know, doing the bare minimum. But whatever makes you feel better about supporting the military industrial complex.
I think the point is that a person being a member of a religion which has some other members who have committed horrible acts whilst hiding behind their religion, shouldn't lead to others immediately presuming that said person agrees with those actions or at least covers up for those who did those actions.
In doing so you're playing right into the hands of the assholes - such as Zionists and Pedophile Catholic Priests - committing those actions whilst hiding behind their religion.
Now, when people do voice or demonstrate their agreement with those actions or cover up the above mentioned people committing horrible acts, then, absolutely, judge away, and quite independently of their religion even: for example you can find plenty of apologists for the Zionist Genocide and mass murder of children who aren't Jewish.
PS: Mind you, I share many other people's opinion of the tendency for evil in organized religion, but still, fair is fair and painting everybody with the same brush just because they belong to the same religion as some assholes isn't fair, what's fair is to judge those people by their words and their actions, and if those words and actions include covering up for and even supporting the assholes within their religion, THEN it's fair to consider such people as also assholes.
When something doesn't make sense, then it's often easier for the speaker to rephrase than it is for everyone else to guess what the speaker really meant... assuming it makes logical sense at all!
So is arguing that because an organization has corruption and bad things happen in it that the whole thing is worth throwing away. If that was the case you would have to consider all governments, organizations, systems and businesses that are inherently faulty are worth the same dismantling.
It’s almost as if all things made by human hands are faulty and can’t be repaired or something.
Wow, what a fucking disingenuous argument. How disgusting do you have to be to wave away systemic child rape with "some corruption and bad things happen"?
How about you examine why you think that dismantling an organisation that shields these people is a controversial idea? I don't care if it's a government, company, charity, any fucking place that is found to systemically protect child rapists needs to go, period. If you're not comfortable with that idea, you should probably be asking yourself some questions.
No op but yep religions, governments, most companies and organizations.. and any other entity that only exist for the purpose of controlling, robbing and oppressing people should be dismantled.
And if you argue that they have been or can be repurposed to not do that and to help people you're just too naive, after thousands of years of existence the only things they do is exactly those.
Not all things, just organized religions. There's a fine difference between "an organization has corruption and bad things happen" and "an organization has no point to exist other than to protect corruption and bad things within itself". At least government gives me something when I pay taxes to it
Wasn’t the Catholic Church involved in eradicating native populations in a couple countries too?
The Pope still uses homophobic slurs too. He's the most progressive Pope we've had for a very long time too and he's still talking like uncle Leroy after too many glasses of wine at Thanksgiving.
Someone who vibes with the basic teachings of Jesus (feed the hungry, clothe the poor, turn the other cheek, etc.) and heavy ritual stuff (cathedrals, stained glass, cannibalism by proxy, etc.) but does not vibe with repressive conservative politics.
They were probably raised Catholic, saw some ick with the Institution, but vibed with Jesus too hard to just write the Faith off. Tbf every progressive probably vibes with Jesus if they read what the guy supposedly said.
That'd be the ick. Still a cool dude though, lot on the ball. I'd say progressive Catholics are mostly the ones who assume that if you don't fw the Vatican you don't fw the Christ and don't think about it too much. There's a lotta good people caught up in that mentality.
And anything is horrible if you handwaved the great. That's why Buddha took the middle path.
Can you prove that Christianity isn't the result of some middle eastern Jew learning about Buddhism on the Silk Road and trying to translate it into middle eastern Jew?
A Catholic that doesn’t follow core teachings of the church like anti abortion and gay people go to hell.
True. At the same time, I've seen some outspoken Zionists suddenly get very upset when people remember who they are.
It’s just like that old website, no nuance or discussion. It’s like r/atheism all over again.
This is a semantic game. The honest question is that does becoming more secular make one more moral? I've never seen anybody make the case for that (though plenty love to imply it w/o evidence).
Can we agree that Israel is more secular than her neighbors? Is Israel's government or people more benevolent? It's a trope that Muslims are violent, but compared to just half a century of secular Europe's World Wars, Islam is a blameless kitten.
I mean ... I guess you could consider the planned extermination of Nepalese culture and faith or the concentration camps full of Uyghurs for "re-education" an attempt at genocide if you wanted to use the term very liberally?
You're being dishonest. The definition of the words rules out the undesirable conclusion. People can't do anything in the name of atheism.
If "Religion poisons everything" then removing the poison should rehabilitate the patient, no? So please demonstrate that secular societies are more benevolent than religious ones. Show me that those who invented industrial murder are morally superior to ad-hoc killers.
Did you know that the word genocide was coined to describe the actions of a government who was actively trying to secularize?
Goodness, you are right: I entirely forgot to name the Holocaust (which probably isn't what you were going for). That could certainly be considered genocide against a religion.
Well you could argue they aren't just like you can argue that religious genocides aren't about religion but really about money and power.
How do you do something "in the name of Atheism"? You are being pedantic. These were/are crusades against the culture and faith of a different people. One could argue that they are not "genocides" and it needn't even be in bad faith. Your "assuming 100% accuracy"-statement on the other hand disgusts me, no offense intended. People are suffering, at least aknowledge the fact.
Atheism killed God. Who will wipe this blood off us?
All those slimy creatures. It really is the Jewish question.
It is terrifying to know that people hate a group enough to commit hate crimes and genocide
