https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/07/vw-id-4-owners-report-unintended-acceleration-blame-steering-wheel-design/
Unlike buttons, capacitive controls require just the slightest touch to activate.
I've got a few capacitive buttons in my car, none of them critical, but I'd gladly replace them with the physical buttons in the lower tier version of that car...
Like, how is this considered the nicer option? Hell, I think they're actually cheaper for the manufacturer than proper buttons at this point...
But sure, I really want to have to try three times to turn the vented seats on because I don't hit the exact right spot on the pad, only to accidentally switch it to the heated seats in triple digit weather while reaching for the AC knob (which actually is physical, thankfully)
Yeah, this stuff is always cheaper. Companies, like Tesla, have convinced a few stupid people that it's "premium" but if you look at all the cheapest cars coming to market all they have is a touch screen, like Tesla. It's the absolute cheapest option and it sucks.
Car companies won't be happy until cars become yearly upgrade items like phone companies have convinced us to do with mobile phones
Nicer in the sense of flat panel that doesn't have dust in the seams making designers happy. And they're indeed cheaper to install.
A well-designed button can be incredibly satisfying. Just ask anyone who owns a mechanical keyboard.
I think the Hummer EV is a dangerous and wasteful piece of junk. But one thing it does well is the interior controls. There's a bunch of switches on the dash under near the infotainment screen, and there's little symbols above them for what they do. Tapping a switch can change its context.
So you get the flexibility of infotainment controls, but the UX of actual buttons.
Too bad it's in a Hummer EV.
Capacitive buttons on anything are annoying, they're unreliable as fuck. They might trigger with the slightest accidental touch, but then they'll act like your finger doesn't exist for a dozen pushes.
and why do they have to be everywhere? we have an induction stove and it has capacitive buttons for some idiotic reason. so many problems! when you boil water, little drops are always landing on the buttons. and to reduce power from max to min, you need to hold the - button for like a full minute. wiping the stove with a wet towel makes it go BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP and it won't shut up! and finally, when my cats walk on the buttons, they always manage to turn it on. i miss knobs.
Yes, so much yes. I've got that on mine too, and it's a pain. it has very small, close "buttons" too, setting the temperature is an exercise in accuracy, when it reacts at all.
And yes, the tiniest drop of water fucks everything up completely.
Yeah I'm remodeling and literally refuse to buy anything that doesn't have physical controls in the kitchen.
Fuck touch controls on everything.
Can confirm that these buttons on the steering wheel of the id4 are really, really dangerous bullshit. I regularly drive those cars as rentals, and I've never (not "rarely" - it's really never) faced a worse decision on buttons in any device I ever handled. Those touchpads are solely the reason I despise all VW-cars - they are complete crap. (I use these cars only for short trips and never activate any system by these buttons after encountering numerous dangerous situations as described in the article.)
Shouldn't automotive catch a hint from the fact that the only mainstream capacitive control devices are phones and tablets - something that you're constantly looking at while operating?
They know.
Capacitive touch sensors are WAY cheaper than physical buttons, and aren't nearly as prone to mechanical flaws. Plus they can market them as "newer"!
Car companies only care about your safety as much as it affects their bottom line. It's unfortunately commonplace for there to be known fatal flaws which occur infrequently enough that it's cheaper to just pay out the injured/killed victims than to issue a recall. Driving is inherently dangerous - any car companies that tried to fix everything would go bankrupt, or at least be squeezed out by those that don't.
Now, if only there were a way to build the places we live so that we didn't need to take on the risk of driving so frequently...
Im of the opinion controls for cars should be designed more like controls for airplanes. Every gage and button in that cockpit is where it is and points where it points to be able to convey a lot of information with a quick glance and allow you to interact as quickly and easily as you can read them. Marketing gimicks that remove layers of tactile response to esential controls don't belong in heavy machinery.
Todays cars cockpit layouts are straight out dangerous for the roads tbh. Forcing you to point your eyes to some shitty display somewhere to turn down your AC, then try to tap tiny buttons and hope you won't tap on something else, instead of looking at a road in front of you? How is that even allowed ffs?!
Touch controls are becoming increasingly common in airplanes and then backed up by mouse cursors. Flight critical controls still need to be backed by physical hardware but stuff like route planning etc is now almost entirely touch based. For light sports aircraft’s even flight critical stuff can be approved as touch controls. Look at the G3X or Dynon SkyView. They both have some form of dial-based backup controls, but it’s clearly designed for touch first.
Thankfully, after every reviewer called them bullshit, their newer cars have shifted back to real buttons on the wheel.
There's still capacitive button BS for the heating controls though, so there's still shit reviewers need to push back on.
I had a 2023 hire VW Caddy while mine was getting repaired and it had real buttons on the steering wheel thankfully. The climate control was all on a touchscreen though which was awful. At least they had a button next to the wheel that would set it to demist the windscreen (change the blowers, heat and fan to Max) so you could do that without crashing.
Was so glad to get mine back with actual controls.
It is absolutely insane to treat capacitive buttons as a good thing in cars at this time.
The only capacitive input I will accept in my next car is the infotainment, CarPlay is brilliant.
Controls for lights, speed, wipers, climate, volume, play/pause, and anything else that you need to use when driving should have a physical control.
I hate having capacitive buttons for temperature in my car, not to mention that to activate the seat heater, I have to go into a menu in the infotainment.
I own an ID3 and it's got the same capacitive bullshit steering wheel. So far I've only managed to accidentally fuck with the audio by brushing the right side of the wheel during a turn, but it's really scary that those cruise control buttons are right there with the potential to be fucked with at random.
Luckily I've learned to be pretty well aware of the adaptive cruise control suddenly deciding there's a different speed limit on the road than what's actually there, so maybe I can manage to catch any accidental fuckings with the buttons too.
The ID.4 doesn't just have capacitive buttons, it has swipe controls on the steering wheel.
And of the most frustrating cars I have ever driven.
While im not a fan of the capacitive buttons on the steering wheel, I’ve gotten used to them and havent had any issues. That said, if there’s some sort of recall that swaps it out for a wheel with regular buttons, im down for that. I saw some of the newer VWs had physical buttons again, i wonder if it is just as easy to sawp like my MKV Rabbit from the bare bones to a R32 wheel?
Now the capacitive buttons below the screen could f right off lol. I barely use them. I tend to rest my hand on the top of the screen and use my thumb to navigate where i need to go. Thanks above for the travel assist mode.
I got a loaner while my car was being fixed a while ago. The volume control on the wheel was touch sensitive. I would swipe it and blow my ears out while turning.
Worst. Idea. Ever.
Completely ridiculous, used to own a mk6 Jetta and the steering wheel was perfect as it was, everything was right there and it was all regular buttons
This bears repeating more: VW already knew how to make good driver controls. Their buttons and switches were carefully and thoughtfully designed for many years. The decision to throw in touch-screen buttons is either chasing a fad or outright dangerous cost-cutting. Companies like VW deserve the flak because they knew better, and did it anyway.
Mk7 GTI owner here, can confirm it's got great steering wheel controls. I like that the audio is on the left side since my right hand is busy shifting.
Lots of cars got crossed from my list when shopping for a used one this year, no buttons meant no purchase. got a Kia stinger, fast car, looks good, good price, all physical buttons
Your autocorrect took the day off.
Kia Stinger looks like a nice ride, good choice!
How would these be causing crashes? The ID.4 has a few cruise control buttons on the left side of the steering wheel. They are push buttons, but you can swipe the speed up or down to change it to the next 5 MPH. The resume button is not capacitive as the article states, you have to push it. Once again, this seems like people not wanting to take responsibility for their own lack of attention while driving and blaming it on the tech in the vehicle.
Wait a minute. There are SWIPE CONTROLS on the steering wheel that adjust the cruise control speed by 5 mph increments? And we don't think that's problematic? I'm either misunderstanding the controls or not sure how that seems like a good idea at all
Sure, I totally can't see someone swiping on their steering wheel, say, shuffling across it to... I dunno, turn it? And either jetting forward because they just bumped it from 55 to 75 over the course of a turn, or suddenly slowing, probably without brake lights. Swipe on a steering wheel has got to be the worst car idea I've heard in a while, and I've heard some bad ideas.
Again, unless I'm misunderstanding the controls, which I am open to the possibility of. Please, if this is the case, let me know.
Cruise control speed changes don’t rapidly accelerate or decelerate the vehicle, much like any vehicle. IMO, if someone is too addled to handle that state change, someone should take their keys from them.
The point is, your car shouldn't be state changing suddenly. It shouldn't be accelerating when you're expecting it to coast or cruise. Unless something is wrong. Which I guess there is, there are capacitive slide inputs on the steering wheel.
This issue is only a couple of levels of abstraction removed from Boeing's mcas system. A poorly implemented feature no one asked for that isn't explained properly. Trained pilots can't react to their planes suddenly operating in a way that they don't expect. You expect a layman in traffic to?
It's easy to decry individual responsibility, and say only the most fit should be able to drive. What about the responsibility to the manufacturer? It's clear enough that there's a design flaw with this system. More drivers need to be aware, but why the hard-on for defending a clearly bad implementation of a feature? What's at stake for you?
Well, ok, how do you feel about Toyota’s or any other manufacturer’s cruise controls being on the wheel, where they almost always are now? It really isn’t that different.
Physical buttons I'm fine with. It's the capacitive/swipe buttons. They're far too easy to accidentally activate, since they only require a touch, and they're in the one spot of your car that you touch the most often.
Critical functions, so things that effect how the car cars, should never be on touch buttons. There is too much wiggle room with them consistently activating when you expect them to. If you want to put non-critical components on touch buttons, so things like radio, AC, locks... Fine. I don't prefer it, but at least you're not creating a hazard. Acceleration, deceleration, steering, braking, and safety should NEVER be on a capacitive sensor.
Modern cruise control systems are smart enough to not accelerate in a corner, regardless of what they are set to, and tapping the brake will cancel them.
I don't think this is as much of an issue as you think.
Fine, it won't accelerate in the turn, you're still set higher coming out of it. Now you accelerate in the straight instead of the corner. There's no case in which that's a good or desirable outcome, and it can be easily mitigated by not having these controls so easy to accidentally press.
I mean they literally were talking about multiple ways. Someone could hit a stereo control and spike volume while turning the wheel which causes a huge break in concentration leading to an accident. That is absolutely possible and could be extremely dangerous in the right situation.
The stereo causing someone to crash the car? That’s just Darwin at work.
There are falsehoods in the article. Go test drive an ID.4. I have a sneaking suspicion that this is yet another EV hit piece.
Not really at all. I believe your view is wrong. Just because you believe your high level of intellect makes it impossible for you, you may be forgetting the legion of morons and old people out there driving. Is 100% entirely possible someone could be turning a corner and accidentally does something to cause a distraction and run someone over because they instantly look down away from the road.
Regardless of the persons intelligence, it absolutely can and almost guaranteed has happened numerous times over humans driving careers. The button style just makes these situations easier to take place.
Edit - this isn’t a hit piece on EVs, touch capacitive controls suck in general in cars. Physical buttons are always better, easier to press and locate, and do what you need without drawing your attention from driving.
Keep finding your axe against capacitive buttons, I don’t like them either. However, the ID.4 is most definitely not causing more people to crash than other cars. People can accidentally swipe touch controls on steering wheels, too.
Lol, this sort of shit also comes in ICE vehicles. The only reason this is more predominant in EVs is because some braindead MBAs think EVs need to somehow be more "futuristic" and tactile buttons are too old-school for them. How is it difficult to fathom that in certain situations this can lead to accidents?
I’m not defending capacitive touch in cars. I don’t like it either. I’m just saying that it being blamed for an accident is silly to me.
I've got a ID4 and they are all capacitive buttons. It makes a tactile vibration when engaged.
I hate my car. Nice to drive, but awful to use.
I have one too. The only part of the cruise control system that is capacitive is the speed up and down. Love it.
According to the article there is a “resume” button for the cruise control.
No idea because I don’t own one of these, but if it’s true that’s insane.
I’ve driven a lot of cars from a lot of different manufacturers, and have never encountered a resume button that works how the article describes, where it will accelerate you to whatever the last cruise control speed was.
that works how the article describes, where it will accelerate you to whatever the last cruise control speed was.
That's what the resume function does normally?
That is:
At this point cruise control is still "hot" and pressing resume will turn the cruise control back on, usually with a speed interlock so you can't activate it at a dead stop.
If the car has "one pedal driving" then inadvertent activation could be pretty surprising, and would require you to lift your foot off the accelerator and hit the brakes. Coupled with the rocket-ship acceleration of most EVs this could easily cause an accident I guess.
Never been in a car with such a feature, as it seems inherently dangerous to me.
Every car I’ve been in, when you accidentally disengage the cruise, you just hit cruise again and it re-engages at whatever speed you slowed down to, then you adjust back to what you want.
Having the car suddenly accelerate without deliberate input just doesn’t seem wise.
Can confirm, my car has the following cruise control buttons:
On/off - res/+
Cancel - set/-
The on/off button arms or disarms cruise control entirely. With it armed and no speed set, set/+ will set the current speed as the target speed. With no speed set, the only other button that does anything is the on/off button, which disarms the system.
With a speed set:
On/off will still complete disarm the system
Cancel will remove the set speed, but keep the system armed
Tapping the brake will pause the cruise control
Res/+ will increment the speed by one mph, or resume cruise at the previous set speed if cruise has been paused
Set/- will decrement the mph by 1, or if held pause the cruise control until it's released.
One of set or resume will set the current travel speed as the new cruise speed, if travel speed is higher than cruise. I think it's res.
For the most part this works fine. I don't use the resume function, like you said it can be a bit harrowing if you're not certain exactly what speed is set, and my car is over a decade old - it doesn't have that feature. But, critically, it's not a fucking CAPACITIVE BUTTON, and I've never accidentally hit it once.
But, critically, it's not a fucking CAPACITIVE BUTTON, and I've never accidentally hit it once.
Yeah. I use resume a fair bit because you can set it to the speed you want and if your cruising gets interrupted by a slow truck, or roadworks, or by passing through a town, you can just press it and the car will accelerate back up to the set speed. Not like a rocket, maybe a couple of km/hr per second.
But still, like you say, easily-triggered capacitive buttons for critical functions, holy shit that is a bad idea.
