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JD Vance opposes military aid, NATO membership for Ukraine. He's now Trump's VP pick

https://kyivindependent.com/jd-vance-opposes-military-aid-nato-membership-for-ukraine-hes-now-trumps-vp-pick/

Former U.S. President and Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump selected Ohio Senator J.D. Vance as his running mate on July 15. The 39-year-old conservative, whose fame ballooned after the publication of his 2016 memoir "Hillbilly Elegy," was announced as Trump's pick for vice president on the first day

Vance is one of Trump's most vocal supporters and an outspoken critic of U.S. aid to Ukraine.

. . .

Vance has said that it would be "completely irresponsible" for Ukraine to join NATO. He has also argued for the U.S. to focus solely on preventing Chinese expansion, even if that means sacrificing sovereign Ukrainian lands to Russia.

"Any peace settlement is going to require some significant territorial concessions from Ukraine, and you're gonna have a peace deal, because that's the only way out of the conflict," Vance said in February.

MBFC
Archive

239 comments

echo

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Yes, that's kind of a pre-requisite to being on Putin's payroll...

sudo

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He's clearly on Peter Theil's payroll. Theil personally bankrolled Vance's senate campaign and was the only one Theil funded that was successful.

If you keep making up conspiracy theories that every Republican takes orders from Putin, you're going to miss their actual agenda. Shit like Project2025 isn't Putin's agenda. Thats a Koch project. Theil's got his own techno libertarian eugenicist project that Vance is an acolyte of.

Linkerbaan

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"Non interventionist

"Fully supports israel"

Meme candidates gonna meme

JustZ

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Another Russian stoogie.

Akuden

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Not everyone who disagrees with war or your position on it is deep throating Putin.

lennivelkant

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But someone that blatantly argues for Russia's benefit probably has some ulterior motives. Doesn't have to be deep throating Putin, money will probably do.

Krauerking

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I mean it sounds like he wants chea p Russian labor and goods to compete with Chinese versions of the same.

He's a Republican. He just wants to personally get rich and doesn't consider or care what happens to other people on the way to it. Sacrificing half a country that isn't his so that an oligarchy can turn around and sell back the oil, gas and coal of the land and potentially farm goods at a cheaper slave labor produced price sounds like shrewd business practice to him probably and figures it would get him on the good side of Putin a man with powerful connections.

He misses the mark that China and Russia are working together and you can't really separate that to get one to hurt more than the other. But that's getting to much in the weeds of his plans.

I know it's hard but people generally aren't some evil spy or some terrible monster aiming to cause destruction. A lot are just people. Self centered and uncaring of the pain they cause and sure they didn't do anything wrong cause it was supposed to work out for them. People don't need to get paid first to be awful.

Akuden

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I'm not Republican.

Krauerking

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Everyone uses third person pronouns to refer to Vance and the suddenly you can't figure it out when faced with a counter argument?

Really? Are you for real?

militaryintelligence

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They have Putin's cock firmly up their ass but they tell themselves it's just a turd.

Prandom_returns

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Some of them just hate Ukranians for no reason?

Akuden

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Not wanting to fund a war doesn't mean they hate Ukraine or it's citizens.

Prandom_returns

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Okay, let me walk you through this.

You see a kid down on the floor being kicked by a bully.

Your 'solution' is to not intervene, because you're 'against violence' ?

Fucking logic.

Akuden

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Right!

Except the kid is across the world, and we don't know them very well. Last we heard, they were one of the worst children in the world. Instead of asking the neighbors to pool money to build a boat to go save this kid, you go to all your neighbors and steal that money.

Fuckin' a logic.

Prandom_returns

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Oh, so you do hate the kid.

That clears it up, thanks.

Akuden

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You're welcome, glad you could put more words in my mouth.

SSJMarx

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say something obviously true

85% downvotes

oh yeah, it's .world time

Akuden

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Permanently Deleted

ShittyBeatlesFCPres

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This presupposes he believes in anything. I haven’t read it because everyone said it was garbage but I’m pretty sure he wrote his memoir about “Appalachia” when he grew up near Dayton, OH.

HawlSera

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He also cosplayed a poor person to speak to rich people about how "We poor people have horrible habits!" in what I can only refer to as a minstrel show for the privileged.

JustZ

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That's a pretty good description.

HawlSera

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He also cosplayed a poor person to speak to rich people about how "We poor people have horrible habits!" in what I can only refer to as a minstrel show for the privileged.

Spedwell

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I haven't read it either. There is however a If Books Could Kill episode about it that is very worth listening to.

vxx

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I find it weird that his teacher pushed him to write his memoires in college. Who writes his memoires this early and why would a teacher push him to?

SwingingTheLamp

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I read it. It was not garbage, it contains useful insights. I recommend that people read it to understand politics. BUT, NOTE, CAVEAT: Approach it with your critical thinking cap on. The author is an unreliable narrator, which is unorthodox in a work of non-fiction.

Excrubulent

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"Unreliable narrator [...] in a work of non-fiction" is a fascinating way to say, "liar".

andxz

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I've been on the outside observing this escalating shit show for 8 years now and I think I've finally reached the point where I don't even have the words to convey what I feel about the current state of American politics.

I mean, I know there's a lot of history behind it etc., but just the past months? I don't even..

I hope shit gets better for ya'll, I sincerely do.

UnderpantsWeevil

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don’t even have the words to convey what I feel about the current state of American politics.

It's just fascism, volks.

ChillPenguin

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Don't worry. It won't. As an American, I too have reached that point as well.

andxz

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Still rooting for all the millions of you that I know are awesome people, but ..yeah.

assassin_aragorn

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Don't worry about it, a lot of us in the US feel the same. I'm just tired, boss.

Pretzilla

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Putin is behind all of it

Randomgal

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He's not. He didn't put a gun to the head of the judges que made the president immune to prosecution. He didn't punt a gun to the politicians denying climate change. He didn't call on Trump's followers to storm the US capitol. All of that was the US and it's people.

Putin was probably just cheerleading his puppets as it all happened. But make no mistake, seeds only grow in fertile soil.

andxz

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I'm Finnish, so if there's one thing I'm aware of it is Putin and his various machinations.

DoucheBagMcSwag

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HERE COME THE FUCKING TANKIES

Objection

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Tankies hate JD Vance too. The only reason he wants peace in Ukraine is to start shit with China. We tankies don't want to make peace in one place just to fight somewhere else, we want peace and deescalation all over the globe.

JustZ

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Okay that's cool, what about Iran, Russia, China, and North Korea, out there starting shit with everyone?

Prior_Industry

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If you just give them what they want, they go away. Simples 🤦

militaryintelligence

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Appeasement. 60% of the time it works every time.

Prandom_returns

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...which is basically enabling imperialism.

Objection

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It's wild how eager people are to look at the exact same people who lied us into Iraq and Afghanistan and say, "Yeah, I trust them to have the people's best interests at heart when they lead us into another conflict."

Prandom_returns

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Not everybody on Lemmy is American and bound to American news. Some of us live near russia and know first-hand about what it is and what it isn't.

I know, you americans are really good at "doing your own research".

Objection

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Not everyone who went into Iraq or Afghanistan was an American either, the leaders of plenty of other countries supported it too.

Also we're talking about American politician JD Vance and what he wants to do regarding US foreign policy, so the history of US foreign policy is obviously relevant.

Prandom_returns

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I'm not talking about JD Vance. I'm talking about very convenient to tankies and ruskies "we want peace and deescalation" when Ukraine is devoured by an imperialist, authoritarian shithead.

But again, you're a self-proclaimed tankie, of course your gobbling authoritarian dick.

Objection

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Can't think of a time in history where both sides in a war didn't claim it was about defense and security, whether it was or not. I remember when they said "Either we fight them over there or we'll have to fight them here," and went off to kill a million people in the Middle East, and then they lost, and now, where are all the terror attacks they said would happen? I remember too (though I'm not old enough to have lived through it) when they said if we didn't go out and kill 4 million people in Vietnam, they'd keep expanding all over and eventually we'd be fighting them here. Well, we lost that one too, and nothing bad happened afterward. So forgive me if I'm just a little bit skeptical of the latest pretext for pouring ridiculous sums of money into the pockets of defense contractors so the rich can get richer while our schools, roads, and hospitals decline further and further into dysfunction.

I am a tankie, yes, because tankies seem to be the only people interested in spending less money on tanks and more on human wellbeing.

anticolonialist

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Without tankies this place wouldnt exist, so yea we are gonna be here

todd_bonzalez

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It must be hard for the Tankies that developed Lemmy that most users dislike their communities.

It's a shame that a regressive and thoughtless fringe ideology is attached to the project.

But make no mistake, Tankies didn't invent federated social media or ActivityPub, they wrote a single piece of software. If it wasn't Lemmy, it would be Kbin or some other project.

If the Tankies keep it up, they might find their software doesn't get much funding or community attention, so there's no reason to convince yourself that this place will continue to exist as a Lemmy-centric network.

rekorse

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Lol this passive aggressive nonsense is the most american thing in this thread. If you people dont stop having your own opinion, us white folk might just stop funding your little projects! How big and important you are, we definitely wouldnt want to offend you.

Excrubulent

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I'm not going to be passive aggressive about it, there's a simple reality at play here.

Lemmy is FOSS, so the moment that these tankies try to give themselves some backdoor or whatever to gain undue influence over the system, it will be discovered, forked and everyone will switch and they will be left out in the cold with nothing.

Maybe that'll happen, maybe it won't. Maybe they'll get sick of only running pariah instances and take their ball and go home, except we can make a copy of their ball and keep going.

That's why I'm happy to use the system, it's an open ecosystem and no individual developer has the power to torpedo it, even if they are the founders. Their authoritarian tendencies can't do that much damage in the long run.

rekorse

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I was more talking about how you made it sound like the founders of lemmy are upset with the user base of it as a whole, and then said they are fake founders anyways because the real work was done before them by others, and then said if they keep it up (never said what they were doing to begin with) SOME PEOPLE wink**wink will stop supporting them financially.

Its just dripping with self importance and arrogance. Its an extremely american thing to assume that your viewpoint is the only valid and logical one.

Excrubulent

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You have me confused with someone else.

How very like a tankie to be unable to follow the basic and obvious facts of a situation. That's necessary to become a tankie.

rekorse

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Yeah I assumed the person defending the OP was the OP, my bad. What's your excuse for being an asshat? Internet tough guy? You sound so big and in charge when you talk like that you know. Do you talk to strangers like that in person too? Can you share your other qualities so I can copy them? You are obviously an amazing person so please help me.

el_bhm

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Without fascism you would not exist either.

gardylou

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Putins favorite, JD Vance.

sudo

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Actually he's clearly on Peter Theil's payroll.

Blackmist

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What's the lead time on T-shirt printing these days?

Should I get the "Hang JD Vance" shirts printed now so I've got them ready to sell, or wait until Trump inevitably turns on him?

UnderpantsWeevil

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Vance is going to push Trump down a flight of stairs his first five minutes in office. He's going to invoke the 25th amendment so fast it'll make your head spin.

The guy has absolutely no interest in being VP and his buddies in Silicon Valley are already chomping at the bit for a Techbro Coup. He's not going to wait 3 hours much less 3 days.

vaultdweller013

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The concept of a Techbro coup is so fucking absurd to me. Like I can recognize it as a threat, but also I suspect it would last a whole of five seconds until you have a pile of Techbro corpses. Mostly cause Techbros are the dumbest motherfuckers and only have soft power, add on to the fact that nobody fucking likes them and well theres a good chance theyd be mulched.

UnderpantsWeevil

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Like I can recognize it as a threat, but also I suspect it would last a whole of five seconds until you have a pile of Techbro corpses.

Plenty of the coups in Latin America and the Middle East during the 50s and 60s were sponsored by these bean-counters and their billionaire buddies working out of various right-wing think tanks. The Chicago School of Business produced legions of these fuckers and flew them out from Mexico City to Santiago to Brasília. The Saudi Crown Prince MBS has absolutely inundated himself with these freaks in his quest to build the world's most technologically advanced shopping mall. New Zealand is currently drowning in Techbro fascism, after their local media was hijacked by the far right and the residents talked into electing a white nationalist government.

Hell, states like California and Texas and Florida are already thick with these ghouls. That's a big reason why our energy prices are skyrocketing in these states. Techbros build these enormous power-hog data centers and jack up the price of electricity for everyone else.

Techbros are the dumbest motherfuckers and only have soft power

They have a great deal of institutional power through contracts with federal and state governments. They're embedded deep in the post-War on Terror panopticon and own huge stakes in private media, so they get to dictate a lot of what we see and hear while distorting public outcries and SWATing political dissidents.

Techbros aren't the brightest, but cops are way dumber and more easy to manipulate. And as our domestic budget increasingly becomes "Oops! All Cops!" that means obedience to the Techbro Establishment is how you make money and keep your job, especially as law enforcement.

That's huge leverage in a system that already favors extremist ultra-nationalist white supremacy.

vaultdweller013

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Dont take my amusement as dismissal, its foolish to underestimate ones enemy. Everything you said is decently true, hell I should know my great grandfather helped run the proto Techbros out of the region back in the 70s. No the weakness of the fascistic Techbro is that they are inherently institutional, anything that works outside of it or doesnt follow procedures is inherently at an advantage against them. Do you really think Musk or Thiel consider that someone may just blow them up with a car bomb or shoot them point blank with a 12 gauge?

Their power is drawn from the institutions making them inherently a secondary power behind the actual fascist leadership. They have influence dont get me wrong, but it is unlikely that they could hold a fascist government together. The fascist respects strength, but the Techbros have none. They hide behind laws, money, and influence.

UnderpantsWeevil

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They have influence dont get me wrong, but it is unlikely that they could hold a fascist government together.

That's just fascism generally speaking. You either liberalize or you fail. A paranoid personality cult of an administration can't last long without people Operation Valkyrie-ing each other, as evidence by Trump's ear going missing last weekend.

But in the meantime, you get to restructure the liberal order so that your people are in charge when the dust settles.

vaultdweller013

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The point I am trying to make is that to even get to the point where they can set shit up for the future they first must get past the first hurdle of consolidation. Very few Techbros can develop the personality cult required, even the ones with a personality cult are still not strong enough in personality to grow it, look at musk for an example. They are dangerous but mostly as the backers of a fascist, by themselves theyre less dangerous than a sleep deprived redneck with a shovel.

UnderpantsWeevil

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Very few Techbros can develop the personality cult required, even the ones with a personality cult are still not strong enough in personality to grow it, look at musk for an example.

That's why they introduce guys like Vance, though. He's a great front-man for the operation because liberals continue to treat him as just another moderate midwestern politician. And he's proven his star power, with his movie and book deal.

They are dangerous but mostly as the backers of a fascist, by themselves theyre less dangerous than a sleep deprived redneck with a shovel.

I guess we'll see...

sudo

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I think you're taking "coup" here too literally. Its implied that it'll be a political coup, not an actual violent one.

elucubra

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3 to 10 days. Quantity? Colors? Cotton weight ?

PsychedSy

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Picture of him.

DON'T MISS

UncleGrandPa

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Its very easy to see that Putin is running the GOP.

At this point it looks like they are competing on who in the GOP can suck up to the russians the most

Furbag

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Oh look, he shaved his beard for Daddy Trump. Wouldn't want Dear Leader to disapprove of your facial hair now would we, Jay Dee?

Riccosuave

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He has to continue his twink transition. He's obviously the bottom in this relationship.

InternetUser2012

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Can you imagine this clown being president when the rapist with 34 felonies is deemed unfit for office or has a McHeartattack?

VinnyDaCat

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I'm not complaining. Only way I'd be happier with his VP pick is if he took up Rubio and forced him to give up Florida.

Vance is also a snake and he'll backstab the orange man at some point most likely.

PlainSimpleGarak

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Vance is a cuck. He was a harsh critic of Trump until he wasn't.

I don't see how Vance gets Trump any extra votes. They appear to attract the same kind of people.

If they win, it gets Vance out of my state. Which is fine (I voted for Tim Ryan).

irotsoma

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Vance is there so Trump can scapegoat him for handing Putin everything he wants, that's about it.

obinice

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Vance is a cuck.

Politics aside, are we shaming people for their sexual kinks now, if they're not harming anybody?

HawlSera

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Those who want to ban my kinks should not have theirs respected

IzzyJ

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Unless their kink id humiliation, then theyre 100% valid

HawlSera

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Ordinarily yes, but the second you try to ban porn or gay people, your fetishes no longer deserve respect and neither do you.

IzzyJ

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The joke was that people with a humiliation kink would want to be disparaged, so "respecting" them is giving them not what they want

PlainSimpleGarak

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Yes.

I'll give you whatever answer you want in the hopes you'll go away.

todd_bonzalez

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if they're not harming anybody?

Funny that you think people like J.D. Vance aren't harming people...

Politics aside

Fuck off.

Lucidlethargy

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This is Trump's exact stance as well. He's been VERY clear about this, but idiots in the conservative camp seem to deliberately ignore it.

Fedizen

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how does he always look like he's like 3 days into a binge drinking session?

mecfs

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🤮

vodkasolution

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Does J stand for Junk?

NotMyOldRedditName

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JustSuckingPutinsCock

MehBlah

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I thought the maggots wanted to leave NATO.

FiniteBanjo

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They do, but they also don't want other people in it, either.

pineapplelover

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Wait why isn't Mike pence vp? Am I OOTL?

Emerald

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Umm, very. Look up "hang Mike Pence"

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/25/trump-expressed-support-hanging-pence-capitol-riot-jan-6-00035117

pineapplelover

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The article says he supported Biden winning. Oh noooooo a fair and equal election, no wayyy

ours

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Oh no, the guy said no to Trump refusing to break the law during the January 6th "oopsie treason failed uprising" so he burned that bridge.

Can't have people blatantly respecting democracy and the rule of law, that's not how the possible future felon-in-chief rolls. (But yet somehow it's the democrats inciting violence against him, hum.)

TheReturnOfPEB

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I didn't know that India was big into Hitler. But now his wife's actions make more sense.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2017-12-14/ty-article/hitlers-hindus-indias-nazi-loving-nationalists-on-the-rise/0000017f-f880-d460-afff-fbe61fe20000

sudo

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This is a very BJP / Mohdi / Hindutva thing. Not India as a whole but it is popular enough. These Hindutva people also unironically praise Israel and Zionism. They see Israel as they ethno-state model they want to be, plus they both hate Muslims. (The Israeli response to this "fuck off, you're more brown than arabs")

spacesatan

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Permanently Deleted