https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/03/man-jailed-for-carrying-replica-sword-from-legend-of-zelda-video-game-in-public
Anthony Bray said the item, a miniature copy of a weapon in the Nintendo series, had been a fidget toy for his hands
The article conveniently fails to mention whether it was sharp (extremely unlikely, the cheap steel used for these can't really hold an edge), and even more conveniently crops out the tip of the "blade" so we can't even see if it was pointed (also extremely unlikely, toys like this almost always have blunted tips).
This isn't a weapon, it's a toy. Sure, you could hurt someone with it, just like you could hurt someone with a baseball bat.
I reckon the police wanted to bust him for some other reason. The Master Sword was just their excuse.
The term crime lost a lot of its meaning somewhere between 10 commandments and now...
I guess dude committed a crime here but most people prolly would not really care.
While others commit bigger crimes and we care, nothing gets done.
If you have lots of crimes on the books and police have enforcement discretion, that’s a recipe for targeting whoever they want.
Washington Post had a better picture: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/07/04/zelda-master-sword-jail-nuneaton/
I'm guessing it's pretty much a letter opener. From a read, letter openers count, and many people are mocking the idea of a letter opener being included in such a ban.
Four months in prison for getting caught on CCTV fidgeting with a sheathed letter opener
The handle is just 4cm or about 1.5 inches, so a grown man can't even hold it in his hand properly, it is clearly a kids toy. He may have used for role playing, although he called it a fidget toy?
dammit i said the same thing independently, but you were first by 12 hours. hats off to you, sir !
victim surcharge of £154.
WHAT VICTIM??? The article says nothing of him doing anything to others. To my knowledge he didn't attack anyone. There's no victim!
Soooooo, either he should get the money, as the victim, or the charge is basically police charging victims money for being victims.
.....I feel like I'm missing something here.
I don't make things up, I just look them up.
Oh, I wasn't accusing you of lying. I was just saying it's such a strange name for a charge that has a legitimate purpose, but is named in a way that has nothing to do with that purpose.
Kinda like if you took an uber, and they charged you for the "poopy diaper charge". And you say nobody on your trip even wore a diaper. So the driver tells you it's so he can refill his gas in the car.
Victims of every crime that has one.
It's a fund for paying compensation to victims of crime and £154 is just what you have to pay to it if you get jailed for 6 months or below.
So when someone does commit a crime that has a payout to a victim, it doesn't matter if they have money or not as it comes from the fund to the victim first.
Kinda like... If you got hit with an extra vehicle/traffic insurance bill every time you get a speeding ticket or get caught driving drunk, even if you didn't cause an accident.
Oh, ok. Thats a far better description than the other guy said of just "court costs".
I would say that America needs something like that, but, I just can't see the money ACTUALLY going to victims. I see some policeman, or politician, or whomever, pocketing it if they tried that here.
I don't know if this is the same but Sweden have a thing where you pay into a fund that helps victims of crimes. When a criminal gets convicted and has to pay a victim money, the state takes money out of the fund and pay the victim and then the fund tries to get the money from the criminal. This way it doesn't become the victims problem that the criminal can't pay.
Four months of prison? It sounds like the man is disconnected from reality but hardly a real threat to society.
Seriously. I've seen letter openers more threatening than that "sword". Was it dumb? Sure. Does he deserve a slap the wrist, absolutely. But prison?? No way. What the actual fuck?
The stupid thing is that the UK is literally running out of prison spaces currently so that we are considering letting long term prisioners out on licence early to free up room.
Yet apparently this man needs to have his life turned upsidedown in order to occupy one of those spaces for four months.
The cells are probably crammed full of cosplayers, student protestors and journalists. Remember that massive ruckus and manhunt for thee guy who was wandering around in a gimp suit making people feel uncomfortable?
"Our prisons have never been safer!"
It's OK though because as soon as the prison guards turn their backs on him he will immediately escape on an eight inch paraglider.
gotta throw the book at him to get the numbers up so they look better when it comes to ignoring serious crime.
With a bit more self-awareness, Bray could have avoided contact with us completely.”
With a shred of brain matter, Sgt Spellman and the bastards he works with, could have not pursued such a ridiculous “crime”.
True, I'd still give them partial credit for the dumb statement.
Law says you can't carry a knife bigger than 3 in. He carries a knife twice that size.
Does he carry concealed in his pocket?
No, He's walking around carrying it openly pretending he's a blade master, oh sorry that's he claims it's a fidget toy.
4 months in jail seems a bit excessive, but when the law says don't carry a weapon and you carry a weapon...
In addition to the four months in prison, he was required to pay a victim surcharge of £154.
So not only was there no victim here but himself he is also now out of work for a minimum of 4 months he's now out 154 bucks. Fuck this world. Like ya, I get that there is that law for a reason, so sure, maybe give him a fine or better yet community service and then let him be on his way. What they have done benefits no one at all and wastes local resources.
Victim surcharge is just a fine with another name.
It goes to a fund that pays compensation for victims of crimes and £154 is just what you have to pay for any crime that results in you getting a jail sentence of 6 months or below.
I know people are reacting strongly, prob a large US contingent here and that’s understandable. It is a completely different world in the UK. The police don’t carry firearms (specialist response teams do) as they are just not as available to the general public. Knives or clubs/bats are the most common weapon encountered. Even in that context I too find the sentence pretty heavy on the face of it. The article was rubbish at giving anything other than rage-bait. It didn’t explain if there were circumstances of aggravation, does he have form (ie prior same or related offences), were there vulnerable people in the vicinity, which specific charge was he accused with (possessing or threatening with) did he plead guilty, were there mitigating factors that actually reduced his sentence as the mandatory minimum sentence for “threatening with a weapon” is six months, eg did he cooperate, is he a sole caregiver for someone at home etc.
Only thing I’ve walked away knowing is the author of the article seemed more interested in provoking outrage and upping their hit count than demonstrating any investigative nous or journalistic integrity.
Even though we have the gun nuts all over this fucked up country, we do manage to far outscore the UK on per capita knife crime as well. Yay us. I agree with your take on the motivation for the article.
Nobody called. It was seen on CCTV. So someone saw him playing with his lil' master sword and decided to fuck him.
Sometimes, when I'm not careful, I end up with stupid, dangerous UK-legal pocket knives so I'm always going to be critical of your auth bullshit.
Have police there never heard of a "letter opener"? 🤔
There's a reason "zero tolerance" is also called "zero intelligence".
Have police there never heard of a “letter opener”? 🤔
At this point, a significant number of them are young enough to have never opened a letter in their lives, so possibly. But this is still extremely stupid.
Bit draconian hey. I admit the whole thing was stupid but considering he didn't hurt anyone with this toy or show intention to do so a fine alone would have been more than enough. 4 months prison? Wtf
it was only 15cm long. that's at best a Master Dagger, not a master sword! still too long to be legal to carry out in public though.
It may be only a few centimeters, but you know what it could do if fully charged*.
(*I know, that's what he said or something)
Ah yes, another victory for zero tolerance policies.
Everything about this is asinine.
Not for simply having, but for brandishing said bladed device as the police approached. That's the law, in that city. As the officer said, “It is possible to find fidget toys that aren’t six-inch blades. It is possible not to walk down the street holding them out in front of you. With a bit more self-awareness, Bray could have avoided contact with us completely.” Bray brought this on himself, and could have avoided any contact with the police. He chose otherwise.
Brandish is a stretch nothing in that article noted an intent to intimidate others, it is simple possession of a tchotchke. Unless you count the author's flavor text.
I'm just reading the article, as you were also able to do, and it says, "On 8 June, officers were made aware via CCTV of a man, Bray, walking down Queens Road, Nuneaton, with the sword in his hand. Bray approached officers with the blade visible, at which point he was arrested." Bold added for emphasis. If I were out in public in the UK, and if I happened to have a bladed implement, I'd keep it out of sight. Especially if there were police anywhere nearby. But hey, you can do as you please. Have a nice day!
Just to be clear this was not in the US. Their weapons laws are way more restrictive then ours. Apparently he was brandishing it and approached police with it. Sounds like he is a moron.
Wait, your toothpicks are about 4 inches long? Is this another case of everything is bigger in America?
6 inches divided by 2 is 3 inches. Not far off from the 2.5" toothpicks I see frequently in Asia. YMMV re American toothpicks.
Oh, the article said 6 inches. I was going by what you said, which was 20 cm. That is closer to 8 inches.
If it's 6 inches, your comment made much more sense.
Ah. Probably the difference between the length of the thing entire and the length of the blade alone.
That's way longer. 20cm is the average blade length for chef's knives. Over here in Germany, with way more liberal knife laws: Legal to own (duh) but also very much not legal to carry much less wield in public unless you have a good reason -- like actually preparing food in public. You can transport that kind of thing without fanfare but transporting very much involves not having it at the ready.
Four months are still completely overkill, though. Impounding and maybe a week's worth of fine (one day of disposable income == one day in prison here) if he was being stupid and careless but non-aggressive. Four months go way beyond "let this be a lesson" territory and very much into "the state is nuts and doesn't make sense". If you're feeling poetic, how about some social hours in a charity store sorting donated fidget spinners.
That's 20 cm including the hilt. Roughly 15 cm for the blade by itself. And about 1 cm thick. Most likely with no sharp edge to speak of, since it was a toy and I'm sure the dumbass police would have made a point of it if it had.
In other words, 'wielding' it in public is about as threatening as carrying a particularly stiff twig. Probably less, considering the size of the hilt.
15cm is still 3cm more than what's allowed to carry without good reason. Replica or sharp doesn't matter in this context because the question isn't whether you could hurt someone but whether the public might worry you're going to hurt someone. You could reasonably argue that it has toy colours and therefore doesn't count as replica but looking at the image you're relying a lot on goodwill, there.
Also, a particularly stiff twig is a blunt weapon. You're not supposed to run around with broomsticks if you're not doing any actual sweeping, either. Or hang out in an dim underpass with baseball bats unless you're an actual baseball player and are waiting for the train to your game or something.
You're not supposed to run around with broomsticks if you're not doing any actual sweeping, either. Or hang out in a dim underpass with baseball bats unless you're an actual baseball player and are waiting for the train to your game or something.
Wow. Yeah glad we don’t have that ridiculousness in the USA. I’ll spend the day celebrating revolting against that tyrannical attitude.
Do you currently spend your day celebrating revolting against even a fraction of the BS you're exposed to? Not willing to even protest against the various injustices in your country, but your right to be a mall ninja, that is where you draw the line?
Lay down your neckbeard, trenchcoat, fedora, and katana, good sir, and have some perspective. Like, arm the homeless or something.
Ok friend. I was being cute. Today is our Independence Day so I made that last sentence.
I’m a recovered alcoholic with 11 years sober next month. I’ve lived on the streets before. Slept in gutters. I spend a lot of time working with the homeless and addiction community now. That’s my biggest fight.
That said, yes, I’ll defend a mall ninjas right to carry painted toothpicks or katanas all the same.
MASTER SWORD = 22 cm or 8.6 inches including handle and holster.
We also have very strict knife regulation here (Denmark), but I think if it is a first time offense, he would have gotten off with a fine, since it's obviously a toy.
Seems like a perfect place for role playing games!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warwickshire#/media/File:Kenilworth_Castle_(cropped).jpg
Wiki page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warwickshire
Most youths who are involved in crime carry a knife for protection. This means that if the police want to arrest one of them, for whatever reason, they can because they will likely find a knife on them.
I see. Is this pure fear behind it or is there some evidence that the law is beneficial?
But yeah, another good pretext for harassing the young and/or poors.
Reminds of war on drugs until police started doing to the all "children" in the US and that attitude changed pretty quick.
We (Denmark) have 0.9 homicides per 100,000 capita, UK has 1.1 USA has 6.3.
Of course there are other factors, but overall regulation definitely and very evidently helps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
That's what all these articles missed, this isn't a first offense, the man is a known burglar, did 4 years previously
If you were caught with the blade visible in public, you could be arrested. I also carry a leatherman, and ensure it is never visible.
The image in the article shows the entire thing being 20cm and the actual 'blade' portion of the toy being around 13cm long. a little longer than the blade on a pretty standard multi tool like a Leatherman.
Is this seriously what the police were actually concerned about, I understand that it's different in the UK vs the US, but this is definitely overkill. This thing would need to be pinched between your thumb and index finger like a cigarette to be wielded and is arguably less dangerous than a fork.
They're only allowed to have 7.62 cm, so from a legal standpoint it's almost twice the legal limit.
If the law doesn't make sense you don't challenge it by breaking it.
The police don't carry guns there so yeah they're concerned.
Running around twirling a clearly illegal item in public is pretty good logical grounds for police intervention. If the law says 3 in when do you actually stop them is it 4, 10, 12? If he was just transporting it from one house to another they might have let it go. But he's walking around fidgeting twirling it in the open. I suspect he was performing twirls and dagger tricks. So the general public is probably also a little concerned. If he's walking around his neighborhood twirling it around all the time it might even been a neighbor that called the police on it.
The fine is reasonable, getting locked up for 4 months is probably a bit much.
How else can one react to a person defending a violent criminal? Maybe you should remove such comments instead.
First, a guy carrying a toy sword is not "a violent criminal".
Second, even if they were, defending them doesn't break any of the community rules.
First of all, it's not a toy sword according to the law. Second, that guy was carrying it unsheathed. Third, he didn't have a good reason to carry. But fourth, the most important thing, that guy is a known criminal who already served four years for burglary. He broke not a "community rule", he broke multiple laws and is a known offender.
We aren't talking about what the guy did, we're talking about you wanting to remove another users comment for imaginary reasoning.
Nothing in the comment broke the rules, that comment stands.
The reply to it broke the civility rules, it was removed.
I feel like he could have been let off with a fine and confiscation where if he would do it again or act provocatively the prison sentence would apply. 4 months in prison is a lot
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