In case you weren't aware of JPMorgan Chase's history and their involvement in making World History.
I'm reading (well, listening) to a book called "Trust me, I'm Lying" about the modern news cycle, and how lies and intentional outrage at lower levels (blogs and social media) get funneled up to traditional-media, and how that is driven by people like the author.
I wouldn't be surprised if causing outrage and later deleting the tweet and following up with a half-hearted non-apology was the intent all along.
Really great book, IMO. Same guy (Ryan Holiday) had a book about the conspiracy behind the Hulk Hogan sex tape ("Conspiracy") that was also real good.
2019, back in #avocadotoast days. When apparently we wasted our money on extravagances like "not the cheapest fruit/vegetables". Which wasn't even the case. We literally didn't even do that, we 100% had to eat the cheapest fruit/vegetable, if we were lucky enough that any fruit or vegetable met our budget. They were so out of touch that even their attempt to find a minor extravangance they thought we could afford to waste money on but shouldn't, was inaccessible.
What’s bizarre about the avocado toast thing is avocados were 2-4/$1 or a whole whopping $.79 ea then.
Not that it makes it a better argument, but the meme was that millennials were going out to restaurants for an 11$ latte and 15$ avocado toast instead of staying home for breakfast. The whole point, to them, was that coffee and avocado toast had some of the cheapest ingredients you could ever ask for.
I severely doubt a lot of the dumbass boomers thought it through well enough to claim that.
That's the whole thing, they don't think for themselves, they watch whatever current angry yelling guy on tv is popular at the time so they know what they are supposed to be angry and yelling about, and who they are supposed to call sheep.
Im aware, my grandmother forms her politics based off shitty SoCal talk radio. Could be worse, but that aint saying much.
11$ latte and 15$ avocado toast instead of staying home for breakfast
If you are struggling for money then doing that sort of shit regularly does sound dumb
It's the best way too argue. You take a situation that is very rare, but argues against the problem other people claim exists.
Happens a lot for financial aid for poor people. Just find the person who takes advantage of a social plan and then claim a majority of people does that.
Unfortunately I know quite a few people who are financially struggling and still spend money like that on small things here and there. Adds up.
The thing is, people should be able to spend money on small things like that here and there. Like, society has advanced to the point where no one should be left wanting, there's enough for everyone to live a happy, fulfilled life, and treat themselves on occasion. Unfortunately though, billionaires hoard wealth like dragons sitting on a pile of treasure, and they're just as greedy when people try and take even a tiny piece of their hoard.
It was an Australian Senator that said that in a comment about housing affordability for young people, about them being able to afford a deposit if they weren't so frivolous with money.
Ironically, totting that up, and assuming that they buy that every day ceaselessly, and that the cafe never closes, it's only 10 grand, and Australian housing prices are high enough that in most places, that's not even enough for a 5% deposit for a $500,000 home. You would only be half-way there.
You'd still not be able to afford the mortgage, even after buying said home.
When I entered my 40s, I decided to switch from Gala to Honey Crisp apples.
Not because I have more money, but because I realized if I don’t get the apples I want, a part of me goes out and eats two medium dominos pizzas in a single setting as an act of rebellion.
So follow my logic here, as it's rather complicated. If I eat the food in the fridge, there will be no more food in the fridge.
Anyway been poor has nothing to do with me spending money and everything to do with me not getting enough money. Rich people spend much more money than I do and yet they're fine, so clearly the spending of the money isn't actually the problem.
Rich people spend much more money than I do and yet they're fine, so clearly the spending of the money isn't actually the problem.
I'm going to go ahead and appropriate that for liberal use. "Used liberally", that is, not "used for Liberal politics".
Their response:
“Our #MondayMotivation is to get better at #MondayMotivation tweets. Thanks for the feedback Twitter world.”
So… they’re essentially just saying that they promise to make better tweets to remedy the situation.
#doingtheirpart
They're saying that they feel bad that they didn't pull off the "cool, hip young attitude" that their test markets, data-points, cited studies and weeks of brainstorming sessions predicted, so now they're going to shift around leadership in the marketing teams and try to approach their social media presence from a different angle, one that appears respectful of modern social issues but also not afraid to throw out some media-safe zingers from time to time! Additionally, a newer model of AI to help reply to questions will surely connect with the people who are all so amazed by AI technology.
That sense you get reading this, that overwhelming desire to find something tall to hurl yourself off of... that's the reason we haven't done anything about climate change. We are answering the call of the void because we know deep inside there's no hope.
But they will never admit that making "humorous" and "irreverent" tweets are not something people actually want to read from a fucking bank.
The point is they don't even think this way to begin with. They don't think in terms of "human connecting with other humans" they are looking at us like a liquid. A set of probabilities and factors and challenges to extract as much money from as possible via literally ANY kind of psychological manipulation they can legally employ... and it's not like there's any laws about "not coercing or manipulating customers" so there's almost no limit to what companies can get away with. We only really notice it when it falls flat like this, but the more successful marketing campaigns are far more subtle and effective, and you will have your free-will compromised without realizing it.
Source: worked in marketing for a few years, felt the soul being extracted from my body every day I worked there.
Marketing is truly the worst. A friend of mine studied psychology and his classes were inundated by industry trying to convince them to go into marketing.
You can't interface fairly and honestly with people. No, you have to use how their brains work to trick them into buying your products!
/s
eat the food that's already in the fridge
That is such a perfect crystalline out-of-touch rich-person take that it has to be a bait. Right? ...Right?
Come on now, they said you can have some at home. Now go and retreat into the tiny box that you pay half your salary on and enjoy your life peasant.
Look if we can’t even buy a coffee then what is honestly the fucking point? I don’t personally drink coffee but the point still stands that it’s not a wholly unreasonable thing to be asking for yet we’re constantly told that it’s a moral failing to spend our money. Fuck even when we stop buying stuff they whine that no one is consuming anymore. I just want to contribute to the local economy for fuck’s sake!
Face it, we’re all severely underpaid and it’s not our job to save every single dollar we possibly can just so they can pay us so little that there’s basically nothing leftover anyway. Being frugal to get something normally outside of our means should be a choice we get to make and a daily coffee should not be considered outside anyone’s means.
It says make coffee at home to save money. You can still buy coffee to-go if you want to but you'll probably have to save that money from somewhere else. Yeah, being poor sucks, who knew.
It does suck, and it doesn’t need to be that way. Living with a knife lodged in your arm also sucks but a doctor wouldn’t say “yea of course it hurts, it’s a knife!”; they’d actually try and fuckin’ help.
The issue is that when you make something as simple as a daily coffee a moral issue then you can open up very small amounts to mockery. They’re not trying to help, they’re trying to make it so it’s not their fault that all you can afford is over-inflated rent and rising food prices. They want any savings to go to them, not to us.
—
Forty years old working an office job you were educated for? Get a roommate because we think wanting to afford your own place at that age is entitled!
Working a physical job? We’re all gunna make you sound stupid so that even though you provide a great value and we demand a high level of quality of work we also won’t have to pay you as much. Maybe you should be roommates with the last person!
Want a cheap coffee to start your day? Booooo, that $60-75 a month could go into my pocket instead!
I’m sorry you said you wanted a hobby?! Hahaha it better be extraordinarly cheap!
Oh you bought a cheap thing and it broke? You should have somehow bought a more expensive thing that would last longer and cost less in the long run!
Oh you bought something that would last longer and cost less in the long run? Wow look at luxury pants over here, you should be saving that money!
You paid full price for that? Why don’t you be more like me and magically have enough disposable income to take advantage of sales even when you know you won’t need the thing for months.
—
It’s all just bullshit to fuck you over and make people fight eachother. They give us raises worth less than even just the inflation of the previous year and then when we speak out they turn it into a moral issue. Somehow it’s always our fault even though they’re the ones overpaying themselves while underpaying everyone else.
It's not a moral issue, it's an issue of nothing having enough money. It's all fine and good to think how we can solve people being poor but it won't have very immediate effect for the person in question. A person with a knife in their arm doesn't benefit much from people starting a discussion about how to prevent knife crime.
What "person in question"? There is no "person in question" here. We are not talking about the financial problems of anyone specific. We are talking about the problem in general.
When a person comes to the hospital with a knife popping out, you want the medical crew to focus on taking the knife out while preventing the patient from bleeding to death. When there is a public debate about how so many people are getting stabbed, the debate should be about preventing them from getting stabbed, not about the specifics of how to safely pull a knife out of a living person's flesh.
The advice is directed towards people struggling with money. Any one of them would be the person in question.
You have a good analogy there but in this instance the people are already stabbed (struggling with money). At that point advice on how to stop the bleeding might have a more immediate and direct effect than someone telling them how knife crime is a solvable problem. One is more immediate and helps on a personal level and another might help on a societal level at some point in the future. Two different things, really.
Dude, making coffee at home is not insignificant. I drink my coffee black and even that is like $2/coffee (which someone told me has gone up at Tim Horton’s since I was last there). Multiply that by the 3-4 coffees I drink a day and you’re looking at $30-$40/week which becomes becomes $120-160/month.
I can buy a can of coffee that lasts me two months and make it at home for $10. That’s a $370 savings every two months. (CAD)
He said “but not insignificant”. That said, $185/mo($370/2) for something you get hot and fresh every single day should not be a big deal. The economy doesn’t function if little purchases can’t be made and it’s not like people are asking for a new pony every week. If you wanna be frugal to afford something else then that should be your choice and not just the bare minimum to be able to afford rent because your employer won’t pay you.
I do get it hot and fresh every day though.
I agree with you about the economy, but on a personal level - keep in mind I drink it black - I find the idea of buying coffee at a shop ridiculous.
Completely off topic but...
You're drinking 3-4 coffees a day? Is that normal for the people around you as well?
I only ask because that's an insane amount of caffeine for me. I think I'd be bouncing off the walls 😄
Yeah until recently I was drinking that much, but I never noticed a change in my energy levels from coffee. I could also have coffee quite late in the evening and not have trouble sleeping.
I recently cut back to max 1 a day (sometimes going days without) and haven’t noticed any change.
I mean, not every day, but usually yeah. I don’t drink coffee on Sundays though because I’m aware that I drink a lot of coffee.
I too drink 3-4 cups a days, which I make at home (or, much more often, at the office. Which means I save more money because I don't pay for the ingredients. At least not directly), but every now and then - say, once or twice a week - I buy a cup of coffee. Now, it's mostly a matter of convenience (I don't go out specifically to drink coffee, I buy it because I'm already out for other matters) but if I was financially struggling I could make that coffee at home (or at the office) and take it with me. But if wouldn't be that significant. If we use your numbers, that's about $2-$4/week - or about $156/year (I don't calculate the price of the jar because I already need it for the 3-4 cups I make myself, and yes I will use them up more often but at this point it's small change). Not much.
You drink 3-4 cups a day, and because you make them at home you imagine that these people who buy their coffee buy 3-4 cups a day. But is this really the pattern? I mean, I can say that I drink 3-4 cups a day and that I can say that I buy coffee, and both of these statements will be true. So maybe my pattern is the more common one? It would be enough to fill the cafes with people that only drink out once a week...
I don’t imagine people buying 3-4 a day. I used to do it. And yeah every now and then I’ll grab when I’m out, but usually I take two travel mugs with me to work and don’t need to.
Also, it takes less time for me to make coffee than I would spend in the Tim Horton’s drive thru in the morning. Just not worth it.
It's throwing stones in a glass house
Let's extrapolate their advice to something they can do, so as not to require bailouts from our tax money. If I have to tighten my budget and be fiscally responsible to survive, so should they.
You can take it as personal advice all you want, but they aren't taking any advice because the consequences don't lead them to homelessness. Instead, their consequences leave us holding the burden
If I have to tighten my budget and be fiscally responsible to survive, so should they.
Should, maybe. Doesn't seem like they do.
Okay, then shouldn’t we demand they do? Or at least criticize them when they don’t? We are criticizing them because they didn’t and then they told us we should.
I mean by all means. But banks and regular people aren't really in a comparable position, is what I'm saying. Maybe they should be but it's just not the situation right now.
worst bank ive ever had the displeasure of using, they'd take a $12 "service fee" out of my account that I was using for savings for not having direct deposit set up for it, while I was struggling financially. way to kick someone while they're down.
Nearly all banks are expensive or downright predatory to poor people. Some more than most. I once was overdrawn $0.12 because of a miscalculation. I was hit with a $35 overdraft fee. So now, I’m $35.12 in the hole when my (already not cutting it) paycheck arrives.
PSA: You can turn off “overdraft protection” on your debit/credit card and they will just reject it. If I knew that sooner, I would have saved so much money!!
Or small regional banks! They called me once when I wrote a huge check for a contractor but forgot to move the money, nice lady at the bank said I had enough money it just wasn't in the right account and the check is going to bounce, she inquired if I wanted to move the funds so the check would clear. Yes please! Closed all my other bank accounts with other banks and never looked back.
I deadass watched a regional bank get bought out by chase. Went from 4.8 to 3.0 stars overnight.
Removed the teller desk a year later so it basically became a building sized ATM.
Thankfully there's another regional bank that refuses to be bought out the same way, and also a larger credit union that has a branch in the area.
I have only not gone with a credit union for a year of my adult life. I'm 47 now. It was a big fucking mistake too. Never again.
So many extra and unreasonable charges.
In navy boot camp they require you to open a new bank account with your choice of either the Navy Federal Credit Union, or some other banking institution. You can tell which one I went with, since I can't remember the name of the bank that they offered. They do this to ensure that young sailors are paid into an account no one else has access to. Far too many veterans got out expecting four or more years worth of pay to be waiting in an account, only to find their parents spent it all.
I know quite a couple of people making about 150k+/year and they live paycheck to paycheck. They spend money like it's nothing and can't save any money. This one person had to move back in with their parents after they lost their job after 10 years. They were making at least 150k/year for ten years and had no savings. They didn't even have any debt. They just spent every dollar they made. There are a lot of people like that and I would imagine the tweet is referring to those personality types. Like I know this one guy that took an Uber just to go 2 blocks.
My old man was like this. It always felt awkward though because he made more money than a lot of my classmate's parents combined but it didn't show because he spent it so quickly. We rationalize it a lot by thinking about how he grew up in extreme poverty. That said, he stroked out when I was a teenager and there was nothing to fall back on afterwards.
Most people are like that. And the reason is the lack of financial education. The education system must change.
As an Uber driver I can confirm some people seem lazy.
But I just assume they’ve got a disability I can’t see. Sometimes every step is like being on fire.
Chase has apparently never read the famous work of literature, "Old Mother Hubbard." But then it may be too difficult for them.
They just know about the Old Mothe Hubbard brand doggy biscuits that are bone shaped.
Chase's bank account: Use that building you already have on Park Ave
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/270_Park_Avenue_(1960%E2%80%932021)
How is it the bank's fault if your balance is low? I don't get what's the point of this. Your balance is low because your spending matches or exceeds your income.
They're covering for systemic political issues by blaming it on the individual, essentially covering for poverty wages and other problems related to income distribution. I don't know why they do this, either. But that's why this rubs many people the wrong way.
People don't get into trouble because of avocado toast but depressed wages, soaring house prices, medical costs, etcetera. What the hell are people supposed to do if the minimum spending to survive is already too much for their meager income?
What the hell are people supposed to do if the minimum spending to survive is already too much for their meager income?
If one can't cut their spending then they need to increase their income. Making coffee at home instead of getting starbucks, cooking instead of eating out and not taking a cab to travel short distances is all good financial advice.
In this meme they are dumb because they are broke but still eat out and catch a cab 3 blocks. Even when told of their irresponsible spending they make no adjustment.
..and it's the bank's fault and theres nothing the individual could do differently? I don't buy that. Complaining about it on the internet is not going to help, that's for sure. I know several people like this and they're all notoriously bad with finances. Many of them even earn more than I do but they spend it all on expensive new cars, getting the newest smartphones, TVs and tech, frequent vacations abroad, homes that are way out of their budget, streaming services, clothes, ordering takeout etc.
The problem is the tone of the message. Chase isn't giving solid financial advice, here. They're creating a strawman of "bad with money"
just increase your income, dummy! how have we never thought of that‽
we can also solve mass shootings in the US. if one can't survive shootings, they need to stop getting shot.
They could ask for a competent banking sector that works in the interests of the whole economy too.
Unthinkable.
Sure. And while they wait for that miracle they can also take steps towards personally easing their situation. Broken banking sector is not the sole reason for people's financial struggles.
Historically it's not miracles that brought banking regulation (unless you believe that bit abut Jesus in the temple), it's trajedy, like 1929 and WW2.
it probably won't get that bad though because these days they'll keep bailing them out, their failures paid for by your economic future - gradually enough so that it's not as bad in concentration as 1929, just spread it out into long term inflation so that it's harder to notice. All the whiile people can keep tightening their belts.
And, I'm not saying people shouldn't; being frugal is good, but, once you've switched to your frugal lifetyle, it's increasingly hard to make the next round of cuts, and the next one and the next . . .
If one can’t cut their spending then they need to increase their income.
...with this one simple trick!
What am I missing here?
For one thing, you can't eat food in a fridge if there's no food in there because you can't afford to buy groceries.
The hypocrisy. Plus a bit between the lines about the changing role of the banking sector in the economy over the last 40-50 years.
I'm talking more about the UK that i know more about than other countries, i think the USA has some similarities - but all countries do have important differences.
There used to be a lot more regulation - both intra and inter nationally - that limited how much they could do in terms of international and mortgage investment. Since deregulation banks have typically shifted into investing more into the housing market and to some degree overseas (hard to observe the net position though, especially with multinational corps. and banks). Essentially I'd argue this "crowded out" domestic capital intensive industrial sectors. And generally reduced the savings multiplier in favour of more bubbly type investments - or household sector.
The conequence was that the "job" of the banking sector used to be to fund domestic (business) investment and growth - and to try not to debauch the currency too badly - at least in the post war period. They had to manage the balance between bubbles , stable investments and their non-performing loan rate, and maintain reserve requirements and central bank deposits as a buffer against bank runs .
But since 70s/deregulation they just invest more wherever they like - with less constraints in place to protect the whole system. They seem to be able to get bail outs without major consequences for management when they fuck up. (This was probaably the case in the 50s and 60s, but the other rules prevented them from fucking up too disastrously. Even back before the 30s when there was much less specific regulation there was still the "gold standard" to keep them in check to some degree.
So across all consumers and small businesses, Chase has 86 million customers. If the CEO distributed all his pay, everyone gets $0.14. That's not going to solve anyone being poor, and not going to help you if you have shitty spending habits.
For all the shitty things banks do, knocking them for actually advocating someone good for once seems counter-productive.
It’s not about giving away money. It’s about an entity that grossly mishandled money on a large scale having the audacity to give advice to others on handling money.
Worse, they’re giving micromanagement level advice regarding the money involved with a cup of coffee.
I assume you read about 15% of the response before deciding to push your glasses up on your nose and "Um, akshually".
It was about more than just CEO pay.
Add in the $12 billion, and everyone now gets $140. Still not going to help them.
Go after the banks for some actual shitty things they do. A money lender telling people to spend responsibly is the opposite of the things we should be going after them for.
You know what we can do for 12 billions? A lot of useful things instead of bailing mega-rich banks that gamble money because they know they'll get a bailout anyway.
Hey dipshit, it’s called taxes and public services. That money can go into paying for free healthcare and education, the IRS to make sure all the other parasites pay their due(every dollar put into that organization leads to a positive return), and a host of other things that end up providing a huge gain for people. None of that is to mention that of the 86mil customers there are many who don’t need the extra money so we can push more down to the poorer of the bunch.
You’re very confident for someone who’s thought about this so little and has no real idea how any of it works. Your own math fails miserably when you acknowledge that that CEO is not the only rich person and a proper redistribution of wealth even in the way you mentioned would mean thousands of dollars a month for everyone.
Still not going to help them.
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I wouldn't say no to $140 from Chase if they were my bank. That's grocery money.
Hey dipshit, it’s called taxes and public services. That money can go into paying for free healthcare and education, the IRS to make sure all the other parasites pay their due(every dollar put into that organization leads to a positive return), and a host of other things that end up providing a huge gain for people. None of that is to mention that of the 86mil customers there are many who don’t need the extra money so we can push more down to the poorer of the bunch.
You’re very confident for someone who’s thought about this so little and has no real idea how any of it works. Your own math fails miserably when you acknowledge that that CEO is not the only rich person and a proper redistribution of wealth even in the way you mentioned would mean thousands of dollars a month for everyone.
Give that man $31 million dollars, he's doling out free life pro tips with his global economy crashes.
I just looked it up because they make all of these things public as they should. The CEO of my credit union gets $688,676 a year and the credit union treats me a whole hell of a lot better than what I hear from Chase customers. You know what my overdraft protection costs? Nothing, because they just had me keep a small amount of money in my savings account to cover it.
