https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/04/concerning-spread-of-bird-flu-from-cows-to-cats-suspected-in-texas/
Mammal-to-mammal transmission raises new concerns about the virus's ability to spread.
That's the reason why most people drink pasteurized milk. Those who don't will soon find out about the dangers of raw milk.
Yes, but they will not be the only ones affected. Mutations and transmissions are not so tidy.
Pasteurization is pretty effective at killing stuff. That's literally what it's meant to do.
Mutations and transmission require a vast array of infections to net appreciable results. I don't think the rare raw milk drinkers will likely be a huge problem.
Sure, pasteurization works. But then there's the forest...
A multi-state outbreak of HPAI A(H5N1) bird flu in dairy cows was first reportedon March 25, 2024. This is the first time that these bird flu viruses were found in cattle. CDC confirmed one human HPAI A(H5N1) infection that had exposure to dairy cattle in Texas that were presumed to be infected with the virus. While thought to be rare, this exposure to HPAI A(H5N1) bird flu virus is the first instance of likely mammal to human transmission.
Those who don't will soon find out about the dangers of raw milk.
If those tradfluencers could read they'd be very upset.
Do they even sell raw milk in stores? I assume you need to get this straight from a farm? And I’m a bit shocked if 4.4 percent of the US is getting their milk from farms. That’s like what ~12million people?
Do they even sell raw milk in stores?
The FDA bans it, so it can't cross state lines, but they don't have authority to ban stuff internal to a state. A handful of states allow raw milk from in-state cows to be sold in stores.
This article has a map.
Makes me think back to 2016 When a lawmaker fought to legalize raw milk, and got sick when he drank raw milk in celebration of passing the legislation.
https://www.eater.com/2016/3/9/11186922/raw-milk-lawmakers-ill-after-drinking-raw-milk
Most people get them from farmers' markets. There are supposedly health advantages to it, but I'd assume this would be the case from buying from a smaller responsible farm over a corporate factory farm anyhow—regardless of whether it's pasteurized or not.
It's prolly got some shit they'd call pro-biotic, which will help while their gut flora are eating their corpse.
They did at whole foods like 15 years ago when I worked there. They pulled it from the shelves I believe because of some new law. A handful of our customers got super mad about it.
Yea, they consider it "more healthy" and "more natural" than pasteurized milk. The same kind of people who heal with prayers or crystals and read horoscopes.
That’s crazy. I don’t usually drink milk so I never noticed. But every now and then I will make White Russians. Now I’ll need to keep an eye out. (Or will kahlua and vodka kill this stuff?)
The vast bulk of milk sold is pasteurized. It contains the remains of H5N1 viral DNA -- so we know that it's in the milk supply -- but the pasteurization inactivates it. Unless you're intentionally buying unpasteurized milk, you're probably using pasteurized milk. From what I've read, influenza is very vulnerable to heat, so pasteurization readily affects it.
I doubt that anyone's tried testing unpasteurized milk mixed drinks.
googles
This says that you can inactivate H5N1 with ethanol-based hand sanitizer, but that it's comparatively-resistant to it relative to other forms of influenza, FWIW.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/28/3/21-1752_article
Evaluating the stability of highly pathogenic avian influenza viruses on human skin and measuring the effectiveness of disinfectants are crucial for preventing contact disease transmission. We constructed an evaluation model using autopsy skin samples and evaluated factors that affect the stability and disinfectant effectiveness for various subtypes. The survival time of the avian influenza A(H5N1) virus on plastic surfaces was ≈26 hours and on skin surfaces ≈4.5 hours, >2.5-fold longer than other subtypes. The effectiveness of a relatively low ethanol concentration (32%–36% wt/wt) against the H5N1 subtype was substantially reduced compared with other subtypes. Moreover, recombinant viruses with the neuraminidase gene of H5N1 survived longer on plastic and skin surfaces than other recombinant viruses and were resistant to ethanol. Our results imply that the H5N1 subtype poses a higher contact transmission risk because of its higher stability and ethanol resistance, which might depend on the neuraminidase protein.
"EA" here is "ethanol alcohol"
All influenza viruses were completely inactivated (below the detection limit) within 15 seconds by treatment with 40%, 60%, or 80% EA or 70% IPA (log reductions in titers were >4). However, all viruses were not inactivated by 20% EA (log reduction <1). Of note, although all subtypes except for H5N1 were completely inactivated within 15 seconds by 36% EA (log reduction >4), the disinfectant effectiveness of 36% EA against H5N1-Ky and H5N1-Eg was substantially low (log reduction <3) (Table 3; Appendix Table 1).
I don't know the percentages for mixing a White Russian offhand. WP's mix for it is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Russian_(cocktail)
- 5 cl (5 parts) vodka
- 2 cl (2 parts) coffee liqueur
- 3 cl (3 parts) fresh cream
Coffee liqueur doesn't have a fixed ethanol content.
https://www.liquor.com/best-coffee-liqueurs-5086056
On that page, the coffee liqueurs are 20-35% ethanol ABV.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodka
That says that vodka is 35–40% ethanol ABV.
If you go by that recipe and numbers, then a White Russian could range from 21.5% to 27% ethanol. That won't be enough to inactivate H5N1 in 15 seconds, at least based on the above research. I don't know what kind of inactivation time is required to be safe for consumption.
Yeah, I don’t drink it in 15 seconds. I would think if it sits in stirred alcohol for a few minutes it might help.
But just to be sure, I’ll drink Black Russians instead.
They sell raw milk products at one of the grocery stores near me, but the people interested in raw milk products are very enthusiastic about it and willing to pay a premium to get sick, so the producers don’t hide the lack of pasteurization. It is all over the labels and more expensive than the pasteurized products.
Back in my day, people read articles instead of just looking at the title and commenting on it.
I already tried telling them you can still get the flu from pasteurized milk and also from just being near the cattle.
Braindead apes will do anything to defend their bovine titty pus juice.
From the linked article:
The Food and Drug Administration, meanwhile, has detected genetic traces of H5N1 in roughly 20 percent of commercial milk samples. While commercial milk is still considered safe—pasteurization is expected to destroy the virus and early testing by the FDA and other federal scientists confirms that expectation—the finding suggests yet wider spread of the virus among the country's milk-producing cows.
TLDR: Pasteurization kills the virus. Which is the point of pasteurization.
Source? Have you slept in biology in school? Or don't they teach things like that where you live?
According to the FDA it's most likely safe but can't be confirmed until actual tests are done.
Do they not teach proper research where you live?
"Because H5N1 has only recently been found in cattle, no studies have directly tested milk pasteurization’s ability to kill the virus, the FDA said in a statement."
While H5N1 is new and there are no specific tests, pastereuzed milk being tested for all kinds of pathogens has quite a history. There is no reason to assume that H5N1 behaves fundamentally different from any other virus shred by the methods employed.
Yes, but the idea of pasteurisation is to get the amount of surviving microorganisms down to less than one in a million or better (depending on local definitions). The human body can then easily take care of the few remaining viruses.
Any kind of pasteurisation is not about eliminating 100% of MOs. It is always a compromise, but also always on the side of "better safe than sorry".
Get fuckin hyped for the end of the world, maybe it'll finish us off this time.
No more of these half measures
Mammal-to-mammal transmission raises new concerns about the virus's ability to spread.
On March 16, cows on a Texas dairy farm began showing symptoms of a mysterious illness now known to be H5N1 bird flu. Their symptoms were nondescript, but their milk production dramatically dropped and turned thick and creamy yellow. The next day, cats on the farm that had consumed some of the raw milk from the sick cows also became ill. While the cows would go on to largely recover, the cats weren't so lucky. They developed depressed mental states, stiff body movements, loss of coordination, circling, copious discharge from their eyes and noses, and blindness. By March 20, over half of the farm's 24 or so cats died from the flu. ...
The early outbreak data from the Texas farm suggests the virus is getting better and better at jumping to mammals, and data from elsewhere shows the virus is spreading widely in its newest host. On March 25, the US Department of Agriculture confirmed the presence of H5N1 in a dairy herd in Texas, marking the first time H5N1 had ever been known to cross over to cows. Since then, the USDA has tallied infections in at least 34 herds in nine states: Texas, Kansas, Michigan, New Mexico, Idaho, Ohio, South Dakota, North Carolina, and Colorado.
They cull entire chicken flocks when one is infected, when do we consider killing this herd of cows to stop it in its tracks and prevent it from evolving to jump better there?
In the meantime, it's definitely not the time to start drinking raw cow's milk. While drinking raw milk is always dangerous because it carries the threat of various nasty bacterial infections, H5N1 also appears to be infectious in raw milk. And, unlike other influenza viruses, H5N1 has the potential to infect organs beyond the lungs and respiratory tract, as seen in the cats. The authors of the new study note that a 2019 consumer survey found that 4.4 percent of adults in the US consumed raw milk more than once in the previous year, suggesting more public awareness of the dangers of raw milk is necessary.
Just great.
I think I read something saying that they don't know for sure.
googles
The FDA says that they don't know yet and don't recommend eating it.
Because of the limited information available about the possible transmission of H5N1 virus via raw milk, the FDA continues to recommend that industry does not manufacture or sell raw milk or raw milk products, including raw milk cheese, made with milk from cows showing symptoms of illness, including those infected with avian influenza viruses or exposed to those infected with avian influenza viruses.
Cheese made from raw milk is a great way to get all sorts of fun diseases like listeriosis.
The cheese making process is also unlikely to kill then virus but the aging process likely will.
I usually do. Lots of cheese is made from raw milk. Camembert, Emmentaler, Roquefort, Parmigiano and many more.
Of course I do wonder now.
Cheese from raw milk is already "not recommended" in my country for a number of people like immuncompromized, pregnant, etc. Basically, it is already known to be risky because of other sources of infection, H5N1 is just another "+1" for the pool of problems.
I think the story goes beyond not drinking raw cow milk and pasteurization at this point. Behind the scenes there is def 'concern'. The first time cattle were known to ever be infected was March of this year.
Two possible bird flu vaccines could be available within weeks, if needed The H5N1 virus has infected at least 36 herds across nine states, raising the risk of potential human spread, federal health officials said Wednesday. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/two-possible-bird-flu-vaccines-available-weeks-needed-rcna149961
“The risk here of something going from one or two sporadic cases to becoming something of international concern, it’s not insignificant,” CDC Principal Deputy Director Nirav Shah said at a Council on Foreign Relations event on Wednesday. “We’ve all seen how a virus can spread around the globe before public health has even had a chance to get its shoes on. That’s a risk and one that we have to be mindful of.” https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/01/bird-flu-outbreak-cows-biden-00155452
I always thought raw milk was only really useful for making cheese.
I can't see any reason to drink it.
It’s not worth the risk but there is certainly some loss of nutritional value when being pasteurized.
And the dolphins:
https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/dead-florida-dolphin-was-infected-with-highly-pathogenic-bird-flu/
And the walruses:
I did and got the flu twice anyway :(
I'm still going to get this one too once it's available.
While that experience likely sucked, imagine how much worse it would have been if your body didn't have a head-start on making antibodies.
Other than cat milk, possibly? I've honestly no idea.
But " just eat/drink plants " will kill a cat right?
No way! I've lived this way and I'll destroy my world this way. You must be some kind of crazy /s
Hahahaha! Been a triathlete for 6 years and a distance runner for 20. Not hurting for protein or calcium at all after dropping cow dairy and most meat (I occasionally have fish 1-3 times a week). Went off eggs a few years, too, and was fine. There's so many alternatives these days—even for people who don't have time to prepare/cook.
Absolutely hate being alive. Near constant terror and horror. And anxiety… God is torturing us.
How I managed to avoid getting covid, even one time, remains a miraculous mystery.
Another way to see it, maybe. Maybe I’ve just been alive too long. And it’s time to go. In any way that comes. And bird flu is a way.
Why did thy torture pure cats for a study that proves something knew for years cause I'm pretty sure everyone knows that milk from cows should be boiled before sold and even if you buy it you still boil it after just to be sure at least in my country they did this for at least 100 years!
In case you are being serious, and didn't read the article. Cats were not made to drink infected milk. They were found infected with H5N1 on a farm after drinking raw milk from cows.
Why oh why can't you people ever be bothered to read the article you're commenting on?
These were farm cats living with the cows to catch mice that eat cow food.
Most cats don't digest cow milk well, but it's common for cats on dairy farms to consume some milk, so maybe they self-select for lactose tolerance.
Anyway, they got sick and the farmer's vets tried to help them. It wasn't an experiment.
That's not what happened? Also why is a cat pure but not a cow? Hell, if we applied human morals to other animals, cows are probably much better on average.
Yall are nasty as fuck for eating animal products.
*Downvote if you enjoy bovine titty pus juice.
Regulatory bodies across the world have set standards for the maximum allowable pus content in milk. For example, the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) allows a certain level of pus in milk.
It is very lol.
Also levels for fecal matter in most things that come from agriculture.
Milk is weird, I don't disagree, but governmental regulations on levels of "safe contamination" isn't a milk only thing.