For me this is the modern She-Ra and the Princesses of Power show.
For me this is the modern She-Ra and the Princesses of Power show.
Bojack Horseman. Ratios not to scale, though.
I find that the first few episodes are by far the weakest ones. While they're important for understanding the world and the characters, they are simply sub-par in overall storytelling and writing quality.
The View From Halfway Down was an incredible episode, but nothing I've ever seen has captivated me as much as Free Churro.
Definitely not to scale 😀. I agree Bojack Horseman improves dramatically very quickly to become an absolutely phenomenal show.
Ofc not to scale, he's only half-horse.
And also has two butts (two endings - the one in the penultimate episode, which is then extended into the second one in the last episode, both excellent, Im usually bothered when they clearly end the show/movie & then add a forced good ending just because the suits ordered them to).
In the case of Bojack Horseman, there are two main points that the writers make throughout the series that makes the last two episodes make more sense: 1. That sitcoms can never have a happy ending because there's always more show, and 2. Until there isn't any... and this extends into life.
To point 1. Sitcoms go until they end and every episode has everyone back to where they were, wrapped up neatly in a little bow, ready for the next episode. This is basically how Bojack Horseman (the show) operated, except the characters did have changes, and they did have development, because the writers were trying to subvert that sitcom trope. They were operating like real life, whereas Bojack thought of his life like a sitcom.
And to point 2. Like a sitcom, there's always more show... until there isn't. Life continues, people change, people grow apart, and then you die. But things don't just end neatly like in a sitcom, because life goes on. There's always more life, until you die. So Bojack has to continue living like everyone else and deal with his problems.
Growing a beard is literally a tv trope because of TNG
DS:9 was kind of like this as well. They eventually found themselves, and then it turned into some of the greatest TV ever written and made.
DS9 is probably the best writing Trek has ever had:
"Yeah Damar, what kind of people give those orders?"
Parks and Recreation.
Tried warching it 3 times before I made it past the 3rd episode. Now it is one of my favorite series, but recommend starting with season 2 and only go back and watch season 1 after if someone wants to see it go through some growing pains.
Season 1 Parks and Rec isn't even the same show as later seasons. Season 1 is a poor copy of The Office.
Schitt's Creek is the same way. The first season isn't bad, it's just not great. Both shows were finding their footing, and then got super good but once they did.
Steven Universe. The first handful of episodes, Steven is just a child (and a borderline annoying one at that). Always yelling, running around, goofing off, and even making childish mistakes that his guardians, the Crystal Gems, need to step in and fix.
But as the show continues, Steven matures mentally (and a little bit physically, if you watch the movie and the short sequel series, Steven Universe Future), and by the end of the series, pretty much everyone is turning to him for wisdom and advice, even his own guardians.
The Crystal Gems see an enemy and their instinct is to fight. Steven sees a misunderstood living person and wants to communicate. Throughout the whole series, he shows that it's better to talk out your problems instead of engaging in battle. His summoned magical weapon is a shield and he uses it to protect friends - and foes - as he tries to resolve problems his own unique way.
And the lesson isn't crammed down your throat either; it's subtle in how it's introduced. At first, you just see Steven as young and naive. Choosing friendship and kindness because he doesn't understand the serious threat. But over time, you start to realize he's actually onto something, and his methods actually have merit.
There's also some deep lore hidden in the show that slowly presents itself as the series goes on. The plot sounds simple at first, but then you learn of a great war that took place between Gems that isolated the Crystal Gems on Earth. And Steven's mother had a crucial role to play, with her own hidden past that Steven pursues in order to better understand himself.
Steven is also constantly at war with his own ideals, as everyone else just wants to fight and encourages him to do the same. He has to struggle with his own moral code and decide if violence can ever truly be an answer.
My wife and I just thought it was a cute kids show and idly watched it during a quiet evening. But we got hooked, and by the end of the series, we were crying. It was a very emotional and dramatic (and fun) series that taught good communication and respect for others.
I feel like a major turning point was
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler when he first got captured by Peridot and taken on the ship. It opened up the story of a silly boy in a silly town in a silly world to an ongoing threat with past traumas and future looming with danger, and an empire that wasn't just an enemy of the past. And Steven turned into a member of the team with power of his own, not just a child to be watched. :::
I also found it interesting that as Steven grew, matured, and became more loveable,
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler his mom became worse and worse the more you learn of her, despite so many people that loved her, and Steven is the one who has to suffer for it. The movie just hammers the point in unequivocally. :::
Tried using spoiler tag for those that haven't watched.
I interpreted the OP post to be asking which show got better art as the show went on, and SU also fits that. Compare the first time you see Garnet vs the last time you see Garnet, for example.
I just rewatched a bit of SU yesterday! God I forgot how much I loved that show.
As a tangentially related story, I went to Beach City Con a few years ago. We had just gotten out of a Q&A panel with DeeDee Magno Hall (voice of Pearl) and my friends and I joined up with this little group of people who were singing songs from the show along with a trio of guitar and ukulele players. As we went on, more and more people joined in with this impromptu singalong and we were just having a blast.
After finishing up some autographs at the panel, DeeDee comes out and joins right in with us. She was supposed to be going to another event, but she stuck around just long enough to sing "Here We Are in the Future" with us. Really magical moment, she's such a genuinely kind and funny person.
Might get some pushback for this but I feel like this represents Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
I think because they assume most people have already seen the original they kind of rush through a lot of the setup so the first dozen or so episodes aren't as good as they could be. But then it becomes real good real fast. Especially after episode 19. The final arc is just chef's kiss.
They do, and for that reason I always watch the original up to whatever point (I forget) then switch over to brotherhood as if they're two halves of the same story.
I kind of can't imagine watching it differently.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2-81rNhEwIY&pp=ygUPbXVzdGFuZyB2cyBsdXN0
Probably my favorite scene in any anime.
Season 5, when Jaime and bronn go to dorne is the jump the shark moment. Bad pooooosaaaayyy
Ooh on a first watch now you get the newer seasons too, there was a gap of a few years. Then roll into Bad Batch that starts with order 66 and continues the story, incredible animation.
Black Mirror S01E01 (National Anthem) is the worst episode of the entire series. Yet Netflix decided to use it as the premier.
I told my gf's parents to watch it and just to start at the beginning because "they're all great!"
Took a while after they told her that they really didn't like it for me to realize what I had done.
The first two series of black mirror were originally done for channel 4 in the UK, it wasn't until after that that Netflix took over. I think that episode is great and much better than a lot of the newer ones, but maybe it doesn't translate as well for an international audience.
Not a brit, and I still think s01e01 is one of the best black mirror episodes ever. I whish any country in the EU would have a prime minister with the courage to f* a pig to save a life, although I know that's not the message of the the episode.
I've lost my girlfriend to this episode even before I met her. I was able to bring her back to the series with One Million Merits in her second attempt :D
Haven't watched any of them yet but I feel like this is the consensus for most of the Star Wars animated shows. That they start off kind of weak (or average) and then quickly improve.
Would you agree with that assessment?
Definitely agree. Ahsoka in the clone wars early seasons was a whiny kid, then by season 3 you actually kind of liked her. Once you get to the last seasons you are actually a fan of her character. Exact same scenario with Ezra in rebels.
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
It starts out proper boring and whimsical and turns into a finale that rivals that of Voyager
For all mankind, season one was so drama filled, they didn't even get into good scifi until season 2.
I can't think of any, but I can think of a ton in the reverse direction lol. How I Met Your Mother, Game of Thrones, etc.
Failure to stick the landing has been a very common problem with very good series. Dexter, Scrubs, and Gilmore Girls comes to mind. Not that it's a "good" series, per se, as it was often hit or miss, but I was a diehard fan of Smallville and was incredibly disappointed in the last season and the finale, too. I've also never finished Battlestar Galactica's last season because I've heard it leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. And I never even picked up watching Lost because of its notoriously unsatisfying ending after its also notoriously addictive mystery breadcrumbs lead to nowhere. It applies to a few novel series from my childhood too, like the Pendragon series, and The Inheritance Cycle. It sucks when you devote years following a series, loving the characters, plots and mysteries, only to end up not ever wanting to consume it again because of the massive disappointment in the end.
Not sure Scrubs counts so much as gets an honorable mention, as Bill Lawrence himself even said that the last season was supposed to be a spin-off and not the actual last season. I never watched after JD left Sacred Heart.
Pendragon ends so poorly that I know few people who read the series as a kid and actually read the last book. The way you read the Pendragon series is by petering out in the last 2-3 books and just setting them down to never pick it up again.
Interesting to hear Pendragon mentioned! I loved that series as a kid, but I only read the first 4-5 books I think. Now I've gotta read up on how it concludes!
I started the series after the 3rd book was released, then read the rest as they came out. So I dedicated like 7 years of my teen life to this series. The lore was interesting, a lot of nice mysteries and twists and high stakes action. All of it built up to a major climactic final conflict in the penultimate book and all seems lost, and then the last book was just.... bleh.
I honestly don't remember much about it anymore. I've blocked out most of it since I read it. But I remember how disappointing it was and the complaints I had about it. I wont spoil any details here though, not for the least of which because I'm not sure how much I can remember accurately. But it became clear after finishing the series that DJ MacHale did not have an end goal/outline in mind when he started the series. He was written into a corner and a lot of the final resolution of the whole story felt like a cop out. It also became clear during the series as a whole that he was just winging it sometimes. He didn't exactly contradict himself that I recall, but he definitely hinted at bigger things that didn't pan out to being all that big or interesting on multiple occasions.
The earliest example I recall of these big hints that falls flat is set up in the very early in the first book. Bobby's Uncle, Press, leaves his motorcycle outside of the subway station and tells Bobby not to worry about it because "The Acolytes will take care of it". He didn't elaborate further, and this was clearly hinting at some sort of system of followers or assistants to the Traveller's that operated behind the scenes, serving their needs. But then it later turns out in book 4 that there is not a system of people, there's just one guy. It is just Press's friend, Tom, that serves the same role for Press as Bobby's friends, Mark and Courtney, do for him. Tom just receives the journals Press writes and leaves supplies for Press and other Travellers and picks up their stuff when they travel to and from Second Earth, just like Mark and Courtney end up doing. The reveal of Tom just makes that earlier mystery of who "The Acolytes" are seem pointless, and doesn't really make sense with Press's phrasing. There are more than one acolyte, but apart from the special case of Courtney and Mark sharing the role, there's only ever one active acolyte on any territory. It's just a little irritating to be made to wonder about something and expect a significant reveal at some point only for it to turn out not to be that big a deal. You feel silly for getting excited and anticipating it.
Also, I don't want to say much more about it because it gets into bigger spoiler territory, but the existence of Tom as an Acolyte is, in itself, a bit of a plothole. I wont say more here.
Yes, I think writing a proper ending generally seems to be more difficult. Especially as a show gets more and more seasons. Which is why I think the opposite is kind of more interesting to discuss.
That's fair! I can think of shows where the beginning was meh, and they got better like Parks and Rec IMO, but I don't remember the ending being particularly amazing compared to the rest.
Bee and Puppycat! The original pilot webseries starts off as a bit of a fever dream with a lot of stuff just... happening. I still found it enjoyable as a spectacle, but over time the show started to pull on some plot threads and start tying things into longer running arcs. It also had some absolutely lovely and somber parts in the later episodes. The Netflix series did even better, reworking the story a bit to establish characters earlier and more deeply and planting seeds for deeper intrigue. The type of humor may not be for everyone, but it's ended up being one of my favorite shows.
Also, Summer Camp Island. Starts off with some pretty charming but generic episodes, but it really started to dig into that Julia Pot weirdness from the second season onward. They also started doing some longer 3-episode arcs that explored character backstories much more deeply.
Oh that's interesting. Never even heard of Bee and Puppycat. Somehow this totally flew under my radar. The first season appears to only be an hour long too. Will probably watch it all today or tomorrow. Thanks for the rec.
Love to hear it! Just to clarify, there's the original webseries on YouTube and then Lazy in Space on Netflix. The latter is roughly a retelling of most of the webseries episodes but with more characters and a story that goes a bit past where the webseries ends. If you watch one, I'd do the Netflix one if possible, but both are good.
The Magicians, but only in regards to getting someone new into it. It's a slow starter while they're super confused but then they're hooked.
Reverse it for Firefly!
That show became some of the best tv once they decided they weren’t following the books anymore.
Ooohhh that explains a bit!
My boss Katie has read the books but not watched the show while I did the inverse. She always says she can't remember any of what I'm saying about it.
Yeah I’ve only watched the show but my wife has done both. The first season attempts adaptation, the second diverges, and the third abandons the books outside of characterization and themes. And like, I love the way they both stick to the theme of “the cishet white man with pain isn’t the main character of the world” but in very different ways. Oh also several characters from the books either had their names changed or were combined in the show.
Cishet? I hope you don't think you're referring to Quentin that way. Maybe you're due for a rewatch. Also if anything, I think it showed how it can be pretty great having someone around with the sense of responsibility that can only be instilled by delusionally thinking you're a main character in a story driven by irresponsible gods and shit.
Peaches and plums motherfucker.
In the books he was straighter apparently. But yeah he’s very much bi in the show. Though I could go for a rewatch.
As a character he is beneficial but his “chosen one” shit is routinely subverted. He’s a linchpin of this apocalypse, those are a regular occurrence. More than anything he’s a mentally ill grad student who happened to be obsessed with a world that was coming to destroy shit.