If you see someone shoplifting, remember it isn't your job to deal with it, stores pay security for that. getting involved is providing free labor to the company, and they get enough of that through wage theft.
Wage theft is a widely discredited concept in modern economics. Mostly thrown around by marginal actors who don't know of a better argument.
I use to work at a grocery store and for every food item that was stolen, dozens more of the same product was thrown out for being past expiration. Like many companies they want the shelves to be full at all times, which means they over produce and order product. Nothing was recycled or donated, just straight into the trash. If I ever saw anyone stealing while I was working, I just saw it as less work I has to do with taking count and throwing out food later. Plus someone actually got to eat it!
Similarly- my daughter's last science unit (for some reason) had a big thing about how you shouldn't waste food to help the environment. And I'm fine with telling kids not to waste food to help the environment. But maybe it should also mention that McDonald's throws out every perfectly edible burger that's sat under a heat lamp too long and maybe that should be a bigger concern if we're talking about food waste and the environment.
Even at the middle school level, they're blaming the individual when the corporation is so much worse.
Nothing was recycled or donated
How come they never donate? Seems like a no no brainer and it would help out.
My guess is they don't want to be responsible for lawsuits if someone eats food they had to throw out and it causes a problem. (past expiration date, damage, ect.) Then again I am not a multi-billion dollar business executive so the reason could very well be "fuck the poors" for all I know.
There are literally laws that say you can donate with no liability. It's a common misconception that is too pervasive even in those who are in charge.
In fact, the ones who do realize they can do it with no liability have calculated the costs of throwing away(trash removal is subsidized) vs creating an entirely new process for donating food and worry about its handling(vs. The very lax and rough handling trash gets). Not to mention that they will have to move it to a separate location as it can bring unwanted traffic that is not profitable.
Donating is not an easy task. It's a burden, and there isn't a public service to make it easier and similar in cost to trash removal services. It's not the company's fault. It's the government and charities that are not getting involved.
There are literally laws that say you can donate with no liability. It’s a common misconception that is too pervasive even in those who are in charge.
In France it's been mandatory since 2016, it's illegal to throw away "expired" stuff: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/is-frances-groundbreaking-food-waste-law-working
This should be mandated globally.
This will reduce demand, which will lead to reduced prices and hurt earnings. Capitalism requires lack, including food.
I believe some store locations did, or at least said they did. I'm not sure why the ones I worked at didn't. Even if the food didn't go to people, I've heard they can go into making feed for animals and fats from unused foods can go into make up. Probably what other people have said, if they start donating, then less product would be purchased. I don't have a better answer unfortunately, I wasn't given one when I asked.
because then people can eat that food instead of buying. u are thinking like a human u have to think like a capitalists
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Supermarkets in my country do. They also have bins for items that are getting really close to expiration, where you can buy them with a hefty discount. Another supermarket puts orange stickers giving a discount on close-to-expired products.
None of these companies are worried about me when they jack their prices up while people are struggling. I don't know why I would ever give a shit about them. I'm just here to buy moisturizer and stay in my lane.
The figures in the screenshot are too small to see clearly; not wanting to be "that guy" who just says so and buggers off, I found an article that has the full-size copy of each page: https://thedeepdive.ca/selling-butter-at-54-profit-leaked-docs-show-loblaws-exorbitant-markups/
Theft does make prices go up though, you know? It also makes stores close in underserved communities.
Cool, still not my problem. They can hire people to care about it, I'm not ratting people out. And let's be real, a lot of those companies lie and blame theft for higher prices and store closures and then it turns out they're actually full of crap. Target got caught doing that like 5 minutes ago.
See you're assuming they wouldn't jack up the prices even without theft, as someone who studied business it's literally taught to see how far you can push before the breaking point. line go up. It does suck in undeserved communities but there's not much we can do, people in those communities often vote against their best interest.
The breaking point, though, is the point when consumers will look to alternatives, e.g. a different store. As long as there are other options available, competition does usually do a decent job of keeping prices down.
And companies in a free market would never, ever collude to keep prices high in the face of that very competition you think will keep prices down, right? In fact that's exactly what we're seeing right now, is prices being kept down by the absolutely healthy competition in the Canadian grocery market, right?
Look collusion is a thing, but it's illegal. Grocery stores, even the big chains in the US anyways are pretty cutthroat, they aren't making huge profits they're fighting to survive vs Amazon and the like. Anyways my point is that the claim that costs don't affect prices (and therefore losses from theft don't affect prices) is just silly.
if the community couldn't afford it, they were being exploited not served. dont pretend these people are being supported by these corporations.
if the prices go up, you should steal too. market pressures, babe.
if this isnt sustainable, then let's build guillotines and do something else.
Prices go up regardless of wage increases or thefts. Prices are coupled with only one thing and that is corporate greed.
It also makes stores close in underserved communities.
That is corporate PR bullshit that you swallowed hook, line and sinker.
I read through the article and I agree that it is wrong for Target and other companies to blame crime for underperformance when crime isn't the real culprit. But that was an example involving 9 stores. There are tons of examples of stores closing citing crime if you search for it. I think it's unhelpful to hand wave all of them away as PR.
Yeah, I'll start caring about shoplifting as soon as it becomes remotely the same magnitude of a problem as wage theft.
Only time I'll say something is a mom and pop store. Then the thief is being shitty. Go steal from a Walmart, not here.
I dunno. Oftentimes desperate people are more liable to steal from those stores than to steal from Walmart because the security is more lax. people like to say that, oh, Walmart builds it into their budgets, the theft, so they do nothing about it, but that's totally false, there are plenty of instances where Walmart or whatever other shitass big box store will call the cops or try to detain you with their personal security. Not to say that people should rob local businesses over Walmart if they have the choice, right, but that's why people might do it.
usually but not always valid. still don't snitch, Nazi death squads improve nothing.
Nah, man, I ain't gonna let anyone steal even one of the .15c honey sticks my local candy shop sells
The old couple that run it are too sweet and caring to let even a modicum of bad shopper into their store without punishment
(Seriously how could you steal from people who just give extra quarter/half pounds of their homemade candy because they can, or get upset when a specific product they remember you like has run out and you have to get something else? It happens! Monsters.)
yeah I'd probably tell the kid doing it tgst this isn't the place but I wouldn't snitch. a 1.5c honey stick isn't worth somebody getting shot.
The right answer. You never know what people have on them. I personally don't want to get shot or stabbed. Corporations have insurance, AND make enough profit for me to care.
Only time I'd disagree with this is if it was a local family/co-op ran store. I couldn't care less about the bottom line of a corporation
What?
I've watched people shoplift food several times, and they weren't poor people just looking to eat. I watched someone run out of a M&S store and into an awaiting car with a huge bag full of meat around Christmas time, probably several hundred pounds worth.
If someone was stealing a loaf of bread or something for themselves, I didn't see a thing, but let's not pretend that people aren't stealing to make some money. Lots of people steal stuff to resell, or because they're just dicks...
let’s not pretend that people aren’t stealing to make some money
When you rob one grocery store of a 10 lb brisket, its called shoplifting.
But when you rob every grocery store of 10% of their net revenue, its called paying your shareholders a dividend.
For sure. And the mountain is a big one. But when you're talking about moles digging up your garden, someone pointing to the mountain and telling how that's much bigger than the molehills doesn't seem that relevant.
Don't really care about some corporations losing out on their margins after nickel and diming everyone as high as they possibly can. Especially if the end result is someone or multiple people eating.
Here they've had shittier protections against shoplifting, no bags to shops and whatnot because junkies kept stealing expensive meats and cheese to sell. It sucks. Here they're even given money to live on, housing, free food and whatnot. Hasn't stopped it.
junkies
What a disgusting dehumanizing term. Drug addiction is a much greater issue that needs more than reactionary remarks and actions to solve. A good number are literally that desperate for money because they'll literally die from withdrawals without whatever it is they're addicted to. And so long as they're being non-violent then I empathize with their struggle.
Again, I don't at all care about some large corporate store getting stolen from. Actions like banning bags and whatnot mean little in the face of human suffering.
Narkomaani -> narkkari, narkkari -> junkie. For me it's a shorthand rather than an attempt to make them feel bad about it.
A good number are literally that desperate for money because they’ll literally die from withdrawals without whatever it is they’re addicted to
We have fairly extensive benefits programs (money, housing, programs for addiction, mental health, many sorts) but the thing about drug addiction is that it drains all the money you have. That's why so often addicts are also stealing stuff to get more money for drugs. Sucks for them but also sucks for others who get their shit stolen. Especially bikes get stolen a lot by junkies. And sucks that because of the stealing some stores are having harder time justifying the expenses, which can lead to shops closing. I don't think it's ever been the sole reason here but it has been one of the reasons.
Again, I don’t at all care about some large corporate store getting stolen from. Actions like banning bags and whatnot mean little in the face of human suffering.
It sucks as a shopper that things are worsening because of stealing. And it's a co-op I was thinking of so it's not really that sort of faceless corporation. I just voted in the co-op elections, actually.
It would be easier to empathize if they were stealing to eat instead of getting more money for drugs. Or if we had the US style system where benefits and social programs barely exist. But that's not the case.
If people are stealing for drugs then it means that the system in place isn't meeting their current needs. The problem for a lot of addicts is that they either steal and cheat for drugs or die. Withdrawals literally have the capability to kill addicts. I don't believe in any circumstance we should be holding money ahead of human lives.
It's a shame when people are stolen from, but it's a tragedy when people die. And a system that doesn't allow an avenue for actual recovery is a failed system.
If people are stealing for drugs then it means that the system in place isn’t meeting their current needs.
I don't know what I'd honestly add on top of what we now have in Finland. Housing, money, food programs, clean needles, addiction programs, programs to manage your life, all sort of stuff. What would you change or add?
The problem for a lot of addicts is that they either steal and cheat for drugs or die. Withdrawals literally have the capability to kill addicts.
We have free replacement drugs available to addicts. So you could get that for your withdrawals without having to steal. But many steal instead. Not sure how I'd change the system to get them to pick the replacement drugs instead of stealing.
And a system that doesn’t allow an avenue for actual recovery is a failed system.
What about the system in Finland doesn't allow for actual recovery?
Drugs in general are still illegal to possess and use under Finnish law. You need to decriminalize drug use before you can actually tackle it since it's a health/psychology issue when it comes to the individual.
It's hard to seek out proper help when you're worried that you'll be arrested/fined just for being an addict.
This isn't Robin Hood. These are two guys that clearly wanted to steal food at a peak time to sell it elsewhere. The same number of people are eating, possibly less so because these guys are probably flogging their stolen shit in a pub somewhere and will likely dump what they can't sell.
This place is so weird sometimes. I don't know if it's a Lemmy or American thing, but this kind of stuff is pretty common in the UK...
Grocery stores dump hundred of pound of still edible food into the garbage each and every day. And no one is eating less because of thefts from the grocery store. The main reason people are starving right now is because their grocery bill spiked and extra $100-200 for absolutely no reason other than pure greed that they were able to blame on "inflation".
Your problem isn't with the addicts, its with the system that is ever antagonistic towards its people. Addicts can be hard people to deal with, but they're still people. Now obviously if they're acting violently there's no excuse for action like that. But if they're just taking food why should I care?
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but let’s not pretend that people aren’t stealing to make some money.
Perhaps it's safe to say they're poor. Poor people often don't have enough money. Still sounds like a job of desperation.
Desperation to avoid getting a real, legal job, maybe.
Perhaps it’s safe to say they’re poor.
It is not. I've seen these scumbags' subreddit, I've seen their Tumblr tags. They're not poor, they're just scumbag thieves.
An actual poor person stealing necessities because they have no other choice does NOT have this ridiculous entitled mindset.
It's amazing, isn't it, that there are people out there who think that poor people enjoy it for the benefits...
Please, everyone knows the vast majority of you thieves and those cheering them on aren't even poor, you're just immoral scumbags who feel entitled to the things you steal. I've seen the subreddit, I've seen the Tumblr tags. You're not fooling me, trying to mix yourselves in with those stealing because they have no other way to survive.
Very immoral, unlike those huge moral corporations who just want what's best for everyone...
The irony is that you try to rationalize it as ‘I’m only hurting the Big Bad Soulless Corporation’, but the fact is that you’re not hurting it, you’re hurting the people who work there to survive, people who probably are much closer to being broke than you are. If shrinkage gets too high, a location isn’t just going to hang around not profiting, it’ll get closed.
Please, cut the crap. I've seen the subreddit and the Tumblr tags, I know you thieves aren't broke, and aren't stealing necessities. And you guys can't even help but expose yourselves anyway, unable to resist encouraging the theft of even high-end luxury items.
The irony is that you try to rationalize it as 'I'm only hurting the Big Bad Soulless Corporation', but the fact is that you're not hurting it, you're hurting the people who work there to survive, people who probably are much closer to being broke than you are. If shrinkage gets too high, a location isn't just going to hang around not profiting, it'll get closed.
And then, of course, people like you will complain about the food desert that now exists in that area, completely unironically, because you're just that far gone.
I watched someone run out of a M&S store and into an awaiting car with a huge bag full of meat around Christmas time, probably several hundred pounds worth.
And yet Google tells me that M&S has a revenue of £11.93 billion.
So why are you caring about them losing a few hundred of that?
Because others can't buy meat because some bellends wanted to steal it to sell during Christmas?
I don't give a fuck about M&S losing profit. I do give a fuck about obvious crime that puts people out...
Are you unaware of the amount of meat that gets thrown out by grocery stores? In the US, it’s billions of pounds a year.
I highly doubt they ran out of the store with an amount that did more than make someone’s job easier that night, or force someone to pivot their dinner to a different cut of meat.
Like, I get it. I do. It’s a lot of money, and it’s against the law. But the idea that someone is going to go hungry because of the action is ridiculous.
You don't know that the person owned the car. Breed is not nutrients rich. People can't live on breed.
What the fuck are you talking about? They literally ran into a getaway car with their friend to leave the scene of the crime as fast as they could. You don't steal hundreds of pounds of meat at Christmas because "you need nutrients"...
I knew a very good looking girl, she was a student while I did my B.Sc. her parents paid for her studies but nothing more. She managed to work enough to rent a very basic place.
However, she had no problem asking people for a ride, or to take their car for a ride. She would than shoplift a lot of food, including high quality ingredients. If something went wrong she smiled and cried her self out of the troubles.
And the stolen food? she cooked a lot and gave away most of it.
People are weird, and you don't know what's going in other people's lives. Is it possible they are trying to make profit on the back of others? Yes, can it be something else? Yes.
There is more than one country on Earth, different regions within a county may offer different number of available jobs and some people have different capabilities due to health issues. Imagine that.
Holy crap! You managed to say something that flies in the face of the polarized masses and not get wrecked for it!
Unless you live where I do, where people steal mass amounts of junk food from convenience stores and then resell it at the nighttime markets to our struggling, marginalized, population of unhoused folks at an exploitative mark-up.
Because that is actively harming me, and the community I live in.
Though even with all that, confronting or reporting them isn't helpful. But if asked, and I saw it, I would say so.
nah still fine. if its cheaper than corpo prices, and nobody but corporate ghouls loses, why risk hurting someone over that?
yeah that's not great, but also, these are people the stores wouldn't allow in in the first place? so while shitty, its not worse for them.
They sell it at higher prices to the mentally ill and drug addicted people who are at those markets which are usually referred to as "open air drug markets." I don't like that term but it may give you reference to how this harms the community, though.
Here it's often junkies stealing expensive meats and cheese to sell. I probably wouldn't say anything but I don't really give a shit if they get caught either.
Have you never been approached by a weird dude at a gas station who is selling "fresh" meat out of a cooler in the trunk of his car?
We live in very different places. (Not sarcasm, this has happened to me about a dozen times)
Trunk meat is usually 50% of the sticker price around me, and tide pods are $5 a bag.
Make friends with a "booster" and you can even get custom orders, lol.
Other junkies, alkies, people they have debt to. Often used in lieu of money since they've already spent it.
It's a thing. I've been (am still) around enough junkies that I've had some debts paid in premium meat and cheese. I didn't even think it might sound weird to some, I'm just so used to it hah.
Huh that's a trip man I'd never have thought. I guess people are smart enough to understand value versus weight and that shit is some of the highest value per pound at the grocery store.
It's also something that's available in a lot of stores so you get many places to try your luck in. And they aren't as hard to steal as electronics and they aren't next to the cashiers like some higher value stuff. And meat and cheese is something that is an easy sell to a lot of people, since it's not very specific at all. I don't have a use for a new electric toothbrush but sure I guess I could eat some really good steaks.
My local store got some alarm things on more expensive meat and cheeses because it got so bad. Felt so weird seeing it the first time.
Saw one get caught here just a couple of weeks back, had a similar thought. Didn't care that the store was being stolen from, also didn't care that he got caught. Found it a little funny when he just walked back into the store through a different entrance after he got kicked out and the "loss prevention agent" got all "what did I just tell you?!" Idly hoped that the guy had someone who cares about him in his life trying to help him.
devils advocate: what if that person stealing a sandwich turned out to be convicted murderer Robert Durst
On November 30, Durst was caught inside a Wegmans supermarket in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, after trying to shoplift Band-Aids, a newspaper, and a chicken salad sandwich, despite having $500 in cash in his pocket.
Ok, if you see Robert Durst stealing a sandwich, report him immediately. Otherwise, don't.
give him two, he'll have to do the murder with his feet til he finishes one. might give the victim the opportunity they need.
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Then I sure as fuck don't want to risk a confrontation with a murderer over a supermarket sandwich
He wasn't just stealing food. If someone needs food, you look the other way. But non-essentials? That's a different story.
A sandwich feeds you for half a day, a gucci bag can feed someone for a week. Or at least enable someone to buy other essentials like diapers that are much harder to steal.
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I'm not in a position to tell if someone can afford to eat. They might look like they're employed or be dressed expensively, but people can fall on hard times suddenly
So I'm not going to report anyone for anything except crimes against individuals
The only way you think stealing to live is unethical is if you value property more than life.
In modern society, stealing is almost never "to live", and even when it is, there are many other options to get food.
Also, stealing is unethical either way, the question is whether that unethical action can be morally justified in the balance (due to the alternative being more objectionable).
Letting people starve is worse, throwing food and faking shortages to raise prices should be punished by death.
On a grand scale: That's what states are for. On a personal scale: If states let people go hungry, don't make their life harder than it already is, don't be an asshole.
Let's see... I'm starving and impoverished. I could steal some fresh, nutritious food or I could go to the food bank and have an expired can of creamed corn.
You're right, food bank.
Sounds a lot like projection... How many times have you gotten food from a food bank? Very curious to know 🙂
Let me go check my 'how many times in my life have I eaten food from a food bank' tally to make sure I have an accurate count and get back to you.
Yes stealing food is unethical. If someone steals your food you should take it right back off them.
That's why I do all my shoplifting at the duopoly stores that are currently under government investigation for wage theft and price gouging.... and not the community grocer who isn't stealing from the public.
In the self checkout I watched a man with his children have his card rejected, so he just walked out with the food.
The security guards came up to ask me if I knew what way the man went.
I pointed up in the air to the security camera dome and said, "he sort of went that way, boys."
Massive store near me remodeled about two years ago with a focus on tons of new self checkouts.
Recently, all have been closed.
Surprised that so much walked out the doors via self checkouts that it’s cheaper to pay employees and take whatever aggregate losses there might be from higher wait times!
That is to say, the man with his children apparently wasn’t the only one.
UBI now!
Self-checkouts were so convenient, now they've had some of them gated and some just closed down because people kept stealing. Sucks.
They're amazing here, we don't have proshoplifting communities though it's generally looked down upon so it's not quiet the dystopia America seems to be. I love being able to get in and out without pausing my podcast.
I'm from Finland. Things are pretty good here but it still happens, self-checkouts were scaled down because of theft. Teens and junkies being two big groups, from what I've heard from people working with self-checkouts. Sucks even more that this isn't happening because people are stealing to eat or something.
Costco appears to have even abandoned it, and for reference, the customers not only pay to be there but on average has a household income over $70k.
The frog boiling point might not be here yet, but when is it? When people making over a hundred k are willing to risk it all to steal?
Shit if they're stealing a TV from major corporate retailer that has pushed out all the local competition: I didn't see that shit, either.
Oh and people who need baby formula from Walmart: The locks used on those cabinets use a universal key. Obtain one and even if they lock up the baby formula, you can still get it. Even if you intend to pay, it's a time saver if your Walmart is like mine and nobody ever shows up to assist you at the locked cabinets.
You think you're hurting the corporation, but you're hurting its employees. If a location becomes unprofitable because of too much theft, it just closes, and now all those people are out of a job because of entitled thieves' greed.
Also, the formula is locked up because people steal it to turn a profit fencing it, not to feed anyone who needs it out of the goodness of their heart.
Those people being out of a job could very well be a blessing in disguise. If you work in retail long enough, you know what this means.
Oh yeah, I agree. Those "jobs" they provide are burden on the taxpayers, as well as driving out small businesses.
Those people being out of a job could very well be a blessing in disguise.
I'd bet anything you don't have the guts to say this horseshit to one of their faces.
But it is the thieves fault when shrinkage causes them to have no job at all. Prioritizing your selfish, greedy desire to steal over their well-being is all you're doing, and it's reprehensible.
Are you seriously saying that stealing from your local Walmart means stealing from your neighbors?
I bet you think unions are a big old scam too eh?
Not my circus, not my problem.
Stock shrinkage is expected and baked into the markup you are paying.
So I guess your saying since stopping one theft from happening won't significantly change that markup, you should not even try to stop theft (even if bringing down prices is a good thing for poor people who don't steal). But by that same logic, why bother trying to reduce your carbon footprint? I mean look, if I see someone walking out of the grocery store with food I'm not gonna say anything. But I wouldn't extent that to retail theft in general.
Easy, one is about survival of the planet and species. The other is not giving a damn about an organization that is insured for that exact purpose.
Also, there is no "bringing down prices" they're, at best, going to just keep increasing a bit slower.
If I wanted to victimize poor people to protect billionaire parasites I'd join their taxpayer-funded gang of rapists, murderers and torturers over at the local cop-shop.
Absolutely. It's far easier to steal a few small, expensive, easy to resell things then take the proceeds and buy a week's worth of groceries than it is to steal a week's worth of groceries. Food is bulky.
You’re assuming it was profitable to begin with.
Many corporations move in with a reduced rate, encourage people to shift their habits and drive out competition, then raise their prices to a profitable level.
What happens when that profitable level was never tenable from the get go?
Sure I saw them stealing. I most likely won't care enough to elevate it. I've got places to get to.