•

Even Stricter Laws - Why is Russia doing this to LGBT?

Russia steps up attacks on LGBTQ+ people amid a climate of fear

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/07/russia-steps-up-attacks-on-lgbtq-people-amid-a-climate-of-fear/

New legislation would ban gender-affirming care and ID changes, while Putin explores reinstating conversion therapy...

Hello,

I want to learn and understand why Russia is doing this? From what i have read on other sites the laws against allowing LGBT people have only been getting stronger, meanwhile in CPC the society is moving slowly more progressively in some ways on the topic of LGBT, like they don't target them like what is happening in russia.

I'd really like to see this topic and article discussed.

What are other lemmygrad communities for discussing topics like this in the future?

Thank you.

33 comments

Addfwyn

•

The Russian Federation isn't the USSR. The Federation is a pretty conservative reactionary force that is in no way socialist, as much as the west likes to paint them as such. The CPC is, and while they may be overarching allies on many issues it doesn't mean they are going to see eye-to-eye on everything, especially social issues. It's not surprising that they are very regressive on many social policies. This isn't unique to Russia though, it does seem strange to single them out on it.

I have seen some folks make the mistake of assuming that since we generally don't support the Ukranian side of the ongoing conflict that we must inherently support Russia in all things. That is not the case, and that kind of binary thinking is an artifact of western indoctrination. Understanding that Russia has reasons for the invasion (they do) and that all Russian people are not inhuman monsters (they aren't) isn't the same as uncritical support for them in all things.

Communists should not uncritically support Russia out of some misguided nostalgia for the Soviet Union, nor simply as a contrarian stance.

redtea

•

Understanding that Russia has reasons for the invasion (they do) and that all Russian people are not inhuman monsters (they aren’t) isn’t the same as uncritical support for them in all things.

Communists should not uncritically support Russia out of some misguided nostalgia for the Soviet Union, nor simply as a contrarian stance.

Wise words. Apparently the most difficult thing for reactionaries to understand.

Edit: thinking about it, it does make sense that reactionaries can't understand this because it's how they often operate. They give uncritical support to capitalist states, to NATO, to the IMF, World Bank, WTO, government, orgs like the EU, etc. Obviously it's inconsistent. And they may raise some challenges. But it's only to liberal-two-sides the subject matter, to make it seem as if they're being reasonable and balanced. But ultimately they always come down on the side of capital and, at most, chant: 'Mild, sensible reforms!'

So it's uncritical support at all times for the form of liberal states institutions. The only thing they challenge is some surface-level content, but even this is tepid.

They can't comprehend that MLs might conduct a material analysis of e.g. the Ukraine war in order to understand it better, while simultaneously holding their breath in anticipation of the fall of the Russian capitalists – only, at a time when when communists can inherit the country, not the Anglo-European vultures who looted Iraq and everywhere else they entered. Which time isn't now, considering NATO is knocking at the door.

SapphicFemme

•

On the part of singling them out.

I merely heard about russia passing this law and figured, I would start a conversation. I am seeing attacks against LGBT in so many places.

AlbigensianGhoul

•

Obviously Putin isn't communist and neither is his government and nor do they mostly claim to be. I don't see why we as communists need to explain why bigots somewhere are institutionalising LGBT-phobia as if it's a phenomenon unique to Russia. But as the other user pointed out, Orthodox Christianity in Russia (and most big Christian denominations worldwide) goes hand-in-hand with reactionary ideas such as "protecting family" or "traditional values". Kinda like those guys beyond the Bering Strait.

Edit: as for the last question, freechat is usually a better place, but if it's about LGBT discussions there's always literally !lgbt

nemesis

•

Not a Russia expert by any means but this is how I understand the situation:

The Eastern Orthodox Church gained influence after the fall of the USSR and used it to spread anti-LGBT sentiment
Russian leadership are conservative reactionaries and the KPRF, the largest opposition party (and only nominally communist), is also quite reactionary
Due to the way the US weaponizes the concept of human rights, being anti-queer is seen as being anti-imperialist in many countries outside the West, including Russia

I had another point that I forgot while I was typing this up because I'm trying to function on 3 hours sleep lol. If I remember it I'll update

QueerCommie

•

I think I read that US conservatives pushed and funding homophobia in Russia. On the homophobia-anti-imperialism thing, I remember seeing a clip of Evo Morales saying chicken was making men feminized are something like that —- like, food sovereignty is good, and they get the lack of education excuse, but it’s still kind of annoying —-

SapphicFemme

•

I heard about this, but it was with the anti-lgbt bill in africia

SapphicFemme

•

The last point makes sense, maybe that is why the usa goes and talks about lgbt to other countries, just to associate lgbt with them, so they are less likely to want to legalize or listen to LGBT people in their own country?

rjs001

•

Why? Religion mostly

SapphicFemme

•

Any ideas to change this?

rjs001

•

I mean religion tends to fall as education increases in a place so really improved education will result in this.

SapphicFemme

•

I hope russia improves their education system

SapphicFemme

•

I like this solution.

SapphicFemme

•

Any ideas on encouraging views to change?

rjs001

•

Well, rejection of religion is growing worldwide and is commonly tied to a country becoming wealthier and religion playing less of a role. Generally I’d imagine the best way to encourage views to change are through comprehensive science education and science education helps someone understand why to reject religion as it explains the world in a logical and materialistic way that some of the religious population may think “only God can”

Finnish_nationalisti

•

Wouldn't this mean that the much less religious Soviet Union should've been very pro-lgbt? Why was this not the case?

fruityloop

•

what else is to be expected from a capitalist country with active interference of religion in state affairs? i don't believe queer liberation will ever be possible under capitalism anyways.

despite that, these news are still tragic of course. the state's treatment of queer people in my country is similar to what russia is trying to implement and i don't wish than on anyone. even though homosexuality is not expliclitly illegal here and transitioning is technically legal, gay* people still get arrested on prostitution and public indecency charges instead of homosexuality charges, and trans people can't change their legal identification anymore because the committee that would authorize it has not operated in years and is leaving trans people in limbo.

DeDollarization

•

I blame al shaytan al akbar

SapphicFemme

•

May you please type what's in that image? I can't read all of it.

DeDollarization

•

"Munich Pride Parade MÉLOVIN на Мюнхен - Прайді

Bandera is our father! Ukraine is the mother..."

It is from Ukrainian nazi band headline at Munich Pride on this summer. Edit: add Article

SapphicFemme

•

Yikes. Thanks for typing it.

DeDollarization

•

you are welcome 👍

archiotterpup

•

Current Russian culture is racing towards a traditionalist,.Tsarist, Orthodox Russia.

Rhoeri

•

It’s because they’re cowards.

SapphicFemme

•

Who?

Rhoeri

•

Russian lawmakers.

SapphicFemme

•

Agreed

Finnish_nationalisti

•

Lgbt-ideology is part of the superstructure of imperialism, as such it is supported and celebrated by the imperialist West, while opposed by the imperialised global South and the few remaining socialist states (DPRK being the best example). Russia as a pre-imperialist capitalist state opposes lgbt precisely because it is the superstructure of imperialism and partly exists to encourage depopulation, a pre-imperialist economy cannot tolerate depopulation, much less one that is at war with the imperialist West, as this pre-imperialist economy relies on its own domestic production, not imperialist exploitation of the global South.

Shaggy0291

•

Please clarify what you mean by this. Are you suggesting that it's imperialist to be gay?

Finnish_nationalisti

•

No, this is a silly simplification of the matter. The superstructure doesn't determine the material base, but instead reflects it. So "being gay" is the product of the superstructure of imperialism, and as such only exists in the imperial core and their comprador states (and rarely in individual compradors outside of these states). It is supported in the imperial core precisely because it complements the parasitic nature of imperialism, having others do your work, and then leeching off it. Having others keep the planet populated and dedicating your own life to hedonist pleasure seeking. In addition the resulting depopulation (a completely unobjectionable statistic fact at this point), benefits the imperialist bourgeoise as it shrinks the parasitic labour aristocracy of the imperial core, which demands a part of the imperialist pie. The actual workforce has been outsourced to the global South long ago, the western working class is unproductive, and as such a burden more than anything for the imperialist bourgeoise.