Yes, yes. So first it was, "theyee not doing anything!" now its, "its too late to do anything, get fucked."
Eugh. More, "nothing can be good" bullshit.
Yeah, because it's SUPER helpful to call for the fire to be put out after the house has burned down 🙄
Yes, especially when people with the power to put it out neglect to do so in spite of the people burning and people who sympathize with them scream for them to take action for whatever the fire equivalent of OVER FIVE MONTHS is.
Ok, so which would you rather? The fire to be put out after 5 months of burning, or not at all?
I know your preference is for the fire to have been put out 5 months ago, but unfortunately we haven't figured out time travel so that one's not on the table anymore.
Oof, lemme just tell the living Gazans dont matter bc the same lemmy tankies as ever dont find them useful to their narrative if we help em. 😪
That's nowhere near what I said and you know it.
Strawmen and baselessly accusing anti-authoritarian pacifists of being tankies won't convince anyone that waiting 164 days to call for an end to a genocide is in any way acceptable.
Most politicians will play it safe and stick with the most popular opinion for their voter base, or just stay silent.
Sanders, AOC and the protesters helped to turn the tide, which is the reason some politicians speak out now. Those new voices will continue to change public opinion, force others to speak out and apply more pressure.
You rather want this not to happen?
I thought, getting people and politicians to agree that Israel needs to be stopped was the goal?
And why would it be "too late" while Palestinians are still dying?
Most politicians will play it safe
Which is still what she's doing. She's not suddenly developed principles, it's just reached the point where she can't get away with not pretending anymore.
stick with
the most popular opinion for their voter basewhat the owner donors who keep them in legal bribes prefer, or just stay silent.
Fixed that for you.
You rather want this not to happen?
No, but have you never heard the expression "too little, too late" ? This is the very definition of that.
And why would it be "too late" while Palestinians are still dying?
Because tens if not hundreds of thousands have already died as a result of the actions of the Israeli government and the inaction of the United States government. Even more people, mostly children, have reached a point where they're going to be horribly affected for life if they survive at all.
It's too late to avoid the irreparable damage that she and her colleagues already share some of the responsibility for.
"Which is still what she's doing"
I know, I was talking about her.
"it's just reached the point where she can't get away with not pretending anymore"
Exactly, and that's a good thing.
"owner donors"
If true it means that even they think it's beneficial to change course which would be great.
"It's too late"
Yes, it's too late to reverse time. But I'm pretty sure the Palestinians that are still suffering at the moment would appreciate help anyways.
And real "help" is only going to happen if not only the politicians with principles but also the opportunistic ones agree on it.
Feels like your top priority is to hate on them instead of moving forward on a path that might finally bring a halt to that genocide.
Maybe you should reconsider what's really important to those people dying right now, I'm pretty sure they don't give a fuck about that senator.
This account does this all the time. Part of a legion trying to do anything and everything to convince Americans that voting is against their better interests bc "muh boff sides." As if the choice wasnt between Status Quo Joe and a hostile foreign agent. Theyve a vested interest in using the Gaza crisis as a cudgel to beat any hope anyone may have into oblivion.
Status Quo Joe except the status quo is an unlivable hell that can only lead to the downfall of your half-continent to foreign agents
And why would it be “too late” while Palestinians are still dying
We should probably ask those who died.
Ah yes, the underdogs of the current ruling party of the unites states turned the tide
anti-authoritarian pacifists first your not a pacifist. Second for the anti-authoritarian parts... well that's really the wrong conflict to get involved in. out of the two parties here, the most stable and democratic ones killed 30 000 civilians. The other one is an authoritarian theocracy.
Yes I'm a pacifist. What makes you think I'm not?
The Israeli government is a far right one with fascist tendencies that was already trying to take full control of the courts before October 7th happened. It is NOT a stable liberal democracy, it's an increasingly authoritarian government trying to tightly control everything and oppressing not only Palestinians but Israeli citizens too.
The other one is an authoritarian theocracy.
No argument there. You don't have to not abhor Hamas to abhor the atrocities of the Israeli government.
The reason I mentioned the fact that I'm anti-authoritarian had nothing to do with the genocide in particular and everything to do with the fact that tankies are by definition authoritarian, which is one of the many reasons why it's ridiculous to assume that I'm a tankie.
They don't seem to matter to their elected leaders, otherwise this all would have ended in October.
They're people, it's fucked seeing them being used as human shields and political pawns.
How is it a strawman? The goal of genocide is to kill/remove all the people. You claimed the house is already burned down, very clearly implying that there is no one left to kill or no one who can go back.
It's a strawman because you're ascribing a position that I haven't taken to me in an effort to make it seems like my argument has less merit than it actually does. That's the definition of a strawman and that's what you did.
You claimed the house is already burned down
Meaning that irreparable catastrophe has already occurred. Catastrophe that could have been avoided if not for the delayed reaction of her and other leading US politicians
very clearly implying that there is no one left to kill or no one who can go back.
Only to the most literal of bad faith interpretations. Don't be fatuous, Jeffrey.
Oh, so the analogy is just terrible. The house hasn't burned down, it's just the fire looks like it's about to spread out of the garage, and you're saying its too late because it irreparable damage has already been done.
What the other poster is saying is that we can still save the rest of the house.
Although it should be clear that if you say the house has burned down, that means all of it and not just a small part.
Or maybe the way you phrased it sounded exactly like what I said. All the comments and downvotes are a hint that this might be true.
But No. No. It's the kids who are wrong.
As opposed to the actually SUPER HELPFUL option of letting the fire continue to burn and spread? Yeah, you're right, let's not bother at all.
It's politics, there will always be angry people because not everyone thinks exactly as they do.
"Ok so now calling for a ceasefire is wrong and bad because it's too late and I will be attacked by the left and right for it"
We need to push for electoral reform so we don't run into this tired ass same old situation "lol better vote for the blue conservatives or it gets the red fascists again!"
The same tired drum beat, the same tired song. Round and round we go like we are on a carousel because this clown car is the star of the circus. It must be so ridiculous, because not only is the bread not free, bu t its recently increased 20-30% in price!
Longer then I've been alive, quite possibly long after I thankfully perish. Glad I got that vasectomy, and I fucking sure as hell wish my dad got one. Thanks for the wonder of life: paying monthly tribute to a landed lord, exploitation in every workplace, and a scam around every corner.
Are yall really so unimaginative that you can't picture a world with more then two viable political parties? Perhaps we are special in the head. Me too, thanks.
Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
So what’s the hold up with the rest of the states? Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
I've seen a steady call for ceasefire among parliaments of both the US and my own country. Sometimes MP join in sometimes other leaves.
Now lets stop being westoids and realise that this is useless because no fighting parties back in Gaza us down for a ceasefire
I mean, for the US, at least, this isn't useless. Israel is the reason fighting is still occurring, and we give them their guns and bombs. If our politicians shut off the tap, the fighting will stop.
Probably not, but we still should.
There are a lot of shoulds in US politics though.
Not done yet, still more rockets being fired and hostages being held. Would be good if they both listened to the UN, released the hostages and got the food flowing though.
My issue is that most of the ceasefire dialogue seems to imply the US isn't putting enough pressure on Israel to broker a deal.
That hasn't been true for a while at this point. The Biden administration more or less directly has called for the resignation of the Israeli PM. There are multiple reports of threats being made towards Israel to both deliver more aid and be more willing to negotiate a ceasefire.
The end result is that Israel has agreed to both deliver more aid, and offered to accept multiple different ceasefire deals. However they all fall apart once Hamas blows them up at the last minute.
The fact of the matter is that a ceasefire involves two parties. If Hamas doesn't want a ceasefire, the war is going to continue.
Hamas is not blowing up what little aid Israel lets through you dingus.
Biden admin is still playing patty-cakes with Israel, 6 months into the genocide. Putting pressure on Israel means cutting off the supply of weapons being used to implement the genocide, at a bare minimum, and we’ve seen absolutely none of that. In fact, Biden himself has circumvented Congress to send even more weapons to them.
Except when you look at the history of the ceasefire talks, it's very clear that Hamas has been advocating for a permanent ceasefire for months while Israel and the US have rejected them and called for only temporary ceasefires.
Israel does not want an unconditional ceasefire; prioritizing the continuation of its ethnic cleansing campaign over the safety of the Hostages and ending hostilities.
We can reasonably count the amount of time since Biden approved the transfer of billions of dollars worth of jets and weapons to Israel in hours.
This was always going to be a genocide - it didn't take the weight US security apparatus to know this, but the US's active defence of Israel from supplying the weapons being used to carry out that genocide, to vetoing various UN security council resolutions relating to the genocide, to taking inadequate action too late, Biden and the US government broadly have actively aided this genocide.
Can you elaborate on what makes you think that's an appropriate thing to say to someone?
