https://www.foodandwine.com/florida-lab-grown-meat-ban-legislation-8609560
Florida legislators have been quietly working to ban and criminalize the production and sale of cell-cultivated meat across the state, via the introduction of two bills.
Party of small government my fucking ass. Also, isn't the free market allowed to produce any product and compete for consumer spending? Isn't that capitalism?
Desantis is literally pushing these laws and screaming woke while pocketing millions of dollars of "donations" from the large cattle ranching companies throughout the state. Hell, he started attacking Disney once they stopped paying him millions in bribes too. Disney's disagreement with the dont say gay bill was the perfect excuse
It's all bad faith arguments. They just use it as a weapon to get their way. Although, this reeks of corporate regulatory capture.
No.
Capitalism is when certain industries and certain corporations amass such a market share that they are able to bribe legislatures to prohibit any competitors to their product, under force of law.
Similar to the exertion of influence by noble families under feudalism.
If our democracy has already been captured by such corporate actors, then it is difficult to imagine how "remembering to vote" could meaningfully correct such deep systemic flaw. Emigrating to Norway seems to be one of a handful of plausible remaining options
Almost like "small government" was just a bullshit excuse to cut social services and avoid regulating against the unchecked greed and exploitation of wealthy executives, not something they genuinely believed.
Yeah, I think of it as a critical thinking short circuit mechanism. It’s a means of justifying any policy to their voters without actually having to list its merits or defend any harm it does. The voter thinks “smaller government = more freedom and more money for me” and their brain stops there.
They want to force out everyone to the left of Matt gaetz so they never have to worry about pesky liberal voters ever again. If they could round up every registered Democrat and drop them off in California or new York, they fucking would.
Stand your ground beef, and the cattle doctrine, are important concepts in the south.
You should try reading the article before commenting. The "fake meat" they are referring to is lab grown from the living cells of animals not vegetable amalgamations made to imitate meat.
The "fake meat" they are referring to is lab grown from the living cells of animals not vegetable amalgamations made to imitate meat.
Depending on an individual’s reasons for following a vegan or vegetarian diet, lab-grown meat may very well be okay.
If their reasons are nutrition based, sure, they should avoid lab-grown meat.
If their reasons are based in the ethics of raising animals for slaughter, factory farming, or the carbon footprint and/or food and water waste involved in raising an entire animal just for parts of it to be food, then lab-grown meat might be fine in their mind.
From the little I've seen of discussions, it depends on the implementation. I haven't looked at the details yet, but apparently there are some groups who require at least an initial animal biopsy, and I think someone said something about some growth mediums requiring animal exploitation as well.
Then there's the animal testing side of things.
Since both health and animal rights matter to me, I have no interest in consuming the stuff. If a commercially viable company emerges that can make these meats without any animal exploitation or suffering though, then I might recommend them to others.
From the little I've seen of discussions, it depends on the implementation. I haven't looked at the details yet, but apparently there are some groups who require at least an initial animal biopsy, and I think someone said something about some growth mediums requiring animal exploitation as well.
Then there's the animal testing side of things.
Since both health and animal rights matter to me, I have no interest in consuming the stuff. If a commercially viable company emerges that can make these meats without any animal exploitation or suffering though, then I might recommend them to others.
I respect this position.
At a certain point I wonder if it will start to seem similar to what I say to anti-choicers (specifically the ones who believe killing an embryo is murder) about drugs developed using embryonic stem cell channels. If years from now they’re still growing off of an initial biopsy taken years before, then the initial harm done is surely outweighed by the harm reduction that came from it. That is to say, a reduction in factory farming and animal slaughter is worth a biopsy. Or even an initial slaughter.
Just like I would encourage my anti-choice family members to get their vaccines and continue to take ibuprofen (and basically every other drug, because most use stem cell lines in their development), I would encourage vegans and vegetarians at the very least not to oppose lab grown meat. But of course you can eat whatever you want.
(Obviously I am not saying you have to agree with me, this is just where I might fall depending on the realities that are eventually reached with lab-grown meat.)
Yeah, to be honest there really is no consensus about this within vegan communities. I would say from an ethical stand point, the biggest thing would be if a company is continually abusing animals in their processes. And animal testing is a difficult subject too, because virtually every food has been subjected to animal testing.
I do think it's also worth mentioning that plants really are perfectly fine to center a diet around, in and of themselves. I had a really difficult time transitioning to a plant-based diet because addiction is in my genes. But at the same time I was at a place in my life where my health was declining fast, I felt like shit all the time, and I was having to force myself to eat every day. I hated food. But after I got used to eating 100% plants, all of that completely changed. I felt better than I ever had. My arthritis-like symptoms (and other inflammatory problems) completely vanished. I had all kinds of energy that I never used to. And as I got better at cooking plant based and found good places to eat, I actually fell in love with food again. Plants are fucking great.
Oh so just more anti-science bullshit so they can choke down bribes from the meat industry.
Worse. This is government deciding what you can eat. This is actual socialism (not the workers decide means of production kind though). Ron's done this before with stocks.
We'll, I guess that means lab-grown meat is showing promise! I look forward to seeing it in stores.
I just woke up 10 mimutes ago so brain not workimg hard but pretty sure I saw an article that they were tryimg to ban that too.
I'm so fucking sick of the Florida government. House insurance is astronomical, but they're worried about lab-grown meat, teachers saying gay, and books.
Think of them a bit like a friend with a drug problem. They gotta ride this train all the way to the bottom before there will be any interest in change.
Man, for a party that talks about freedoms, they sure love taking them away. As long as their followers still have gun rights, fuck everything else.
No,, they're very much not allowed to fuck everything else. They are allowed to fuck one thing in very specific circumstances (age not being one of them)
Aaaahhh the political party of not wanting to interfere in people's lives.
Unless you eat meat from a source that might change an industry and cause a select few individuals to be slightly less rich
Unless you masturbate and waste gods seed
Unless you love the wrong person
Unless you want to vote for the wrong person
Unless you believe in the wrong or (gasp) no god at all!
Unless you're the wrong skin color, how dare you!
Unless you have the wrong genitals
Unless you have the wrong wrong genitals
Unless...
Anyone else notice the rules are identical to what a slave owner would want (to increase slave reproduction).
I don't get why a slave owner would care about like 9/10 of the things on that list, though.
Reversing that, is LQBTIA+ a communist plot to make western companies have less profit?
\s (possibly)
Politics is bout ideology, value and belief. But here, it's about making decisions by dogmatism and cult. This is a whole different level.
Alabama also passed a bill to ban the sale and manufacturing of it, making it a Class C felony.
What in the fuck is going on in these guys heads. I get being beholden to the cattle industry but this shit is beyond that
They probably have their identities tied to meat consumption. That's also a reason for the climate denialism. I recently learned about petro-masculinity and it seems very plausible to me.
The same people believed margarine was a grave socialist (iirc) threat to the country and made the production and sale of that a felony. I think around a century ago. Something, something, those who neglect to learn history, something something...
Don't bring up partially hydrogenated vegetable oil here. You're gonna jinx us and make fake meat kill everybody.
So capitalism is bad and the government can tell me what I can and can’t buy… according to Florida legislators? Sure sounds like the republican went woke.
Oh, but don't tell them about the house insurance rates, that's a problem for their constituency, not them.
Republicans have never been for free market capitalism really. They just talk like they were, but in reality the only difference is that they're corrupted by a different set of corporations.
Real free markets are too much for the voters to handle, apparently.
Well, unions are actually highly regulated in the US. It was never about "small government", it's about using the government as a cudgel against who they don't like, which is practically everyone below a billion net worth, and even some above.
The whole Republican establishment agenda right now is to do the white Christian version of Sharia Law.
So far Florida seems to be a good shooter when it comes to its own foot. Make Diznee illegal, abortion illegal, abortion pill, tofu meat. What's next? Smoothies?
Let's make an allegory to porn and prostitution that George Carlin made some years back... Selling is legal, fucking is legal, do why can't selling fucking also be legal?
Banana is legal, orange is legal, so why can't a smoothie be legal? The answer is "Florida!"
Not a Florida supporter here, but the article is not about tofu meat:
Over the last several months, Florida legislators have been quietly working to ban — and criminalize — the production and sale of cell-cultivated meat across the state
TSP, possibly. Textured soy protein. It's a passable substitute for some meats in some situations.
Tofu is made essentially the same way cheese curds are made, but using beans instead of dairy. It produces the iconic brick of compressed bean protein (and sometimes calcium depending on what catalyst is used). It's existed for something like 2000 years, and Ben Franklin may have played a role in bringing it to the US.
TVP is very different. It involves using solvents like hexane to remove most everything from the bean except the protein, and generally results in small amorphous chunks of material, or even tiny bits that are used as an alternative to ground up muscle tissues.
This is about lab-grown meat.
One thing we probably should ban is headlines because then people would actually have to read the article.
I sad tofu meat because that's the kind of fake meat I like. There's also the kind where they make sort of stringy material and glued together and then the version where they get a plant or other scaffolding material and fill it with animal clone cells, that's the kind you're talking about here. Cloned cells are fair game to me but not my thing because they are probably bad for you just like a murdered chicken in a sandwich is.
that’s the kind you’re talking about here.
No, I'm talking about lab-grown meat. Not plant based or any other meat substitute but an actual meat that's just grown without antibiotics, pain and suffering.
Cloned cells is lab meat. The cells are tossed into shape by settling onto a natural scaffolding.... natural as in 3D printed shapes or preexisting shapes like bleached cabbage. I do enjoy some lab grown meat but I do think that having a bowl of beans is way safer.
The stringy material is probably Seitan (or vital wheat gluten). It's purely plant based and made from protein rich flour. It has the highest content of protein in plantbased meat replacements (close and above than real meat) but is usually low in the amino acid lysine, opposed to soy-based replacement which contain all 9 essential amino acids in sufficient amounts.
More recently, mycelium based proteins edged seitan out, and they have a better texture, in my opinion.
Plus it doesn't sit in your stomach like a bag of rocks!
That's good to know. I usually just have beans but if I want to eat something that feels like meat I use that. Mushrooms are good too in the feels like meat but different department.
Cloned cells are fair game to me but not my thing because they are probably bad for you just like a murdered chicken in a sandwich is.
Can you expand on what's bad for you about a chicken in a sandwich? I get it that toubare vegetarian or vegan, I don't need you to explain the ethical reasons, you seem to imply that from a dietary point of view chicken in a sandwich is not healthy?
https://www.pcrm.org/good-nutrition/nutrition-information/chicken
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9495152/
https://www.mdpi.com/2304-8158/13/6/845
My aunt had helicobacter for years. Not a joke.
Apart from that we got lovely H5N1 which has an easy game on poultry farms on animals with weakened immune systems and is bound to break out or mutate if not the whole flock is culled. It's killed people and some virus could emerge when human and avian flu viruses join forces. It's ravaging in non-avian wildlife and even a polar-bear currently. All this screams next novel pandemic.
And stuff like this that sure will effect human health in some way. Those behaviours are deliberate. It's a ruthless industry.
Not the person you're asking, but I'm guessing it's about the belief that eating red meat especially is unhealthy and some people then apply that to all meats.
I believe this stems from the studies that show meat eaters (e.g. average person) is generally unhealthier that someone following a strict vegetarian/vegan diet. This ofcourse doesn't take into account the fact that the average person eats lots of other stuff too that the health consciouss person doesn't and there's usually vast differences in general lifestyle too such as amount of exercise, sleep, smoking etc.
If you ask me what's bad about a chicken sandwich I'd say the sandwich itself.
Yeah I thought about the red meat belief, but we are talking chicken here, white meat. Hence why I asked.
Red meat from cows or other such murdered animals can lead you to have gout problems and other such autoimmune issues.
That said, chicken the lesser evil. I used to eat chicken every day. However I learned how chicken are grown. They are basically bags of fat packed with antibiotics. If you love getting sick and fat, that's the way to go. Specially the Costco roasted...yeah get some of that extra juicy crispiness.
When they grow the baby chicken, they are sorted in big machines by people. The males are tossed into the grinding part of the machine. The females are gently tossed into cartons for the egg laying and murder meat industry. So most male chicken see life for a few days before being grounded into McDonald's chicken flavored pink slime stuff. Or probably they are mixed in with corn and fed back into the chicken.... mother lays egg, has Chick 🐣🐥 and then is forced to eat it so you can get eggs. But I bet some is fed to other animals. I bet chicken eat other animal meat too.
Lord I don't know where to start, i thought you had some insights on chicken meat that ib was not aware of but.. you just sound confused and most of this is just a mess, let's address one thing at least
I bet chicken eat other animal meat too.
I know you want to make it sound edgy like omg chickens being fed animals but yeah they are omnivore creatures, they do eat other animals starting by bugs and snails, big part of their natural diet, all the way to to actual meat leftover.
I guess we can call their preys, 'assassinated bugs'?
Look, Liquid Death sold a lot of water with violent branding. Vegans might just be inventing the future branding of meat.
"Would you like your burger murdered (traditional) or undead (lab-grown)?"
Not sure is sarcastic or not but an interesting point. I eat meat and see some future in alternative meats, if produced, marketed and labelled clearly could benefit everyone.
That said I can't stop but thinking that vegans should stop this nonsense of using murdered and other similar bullshit when talking, it removes any credibility they might have. Just saw in another post someone referring to milk as something like baby cow formula, and I facepalmed.
You should watch cowspiracy and seaspiracy. I'm not really a gullible person that believes everything she hears. But take a look at those videos. The videos are clearly not straight documentary but try and pick up the important information.
I haven't said I'm vegan yet I'm being treated like one. Try pretending to be vegan. It's an uphill battle to not eat meat. Specially in the US. I challenge you to month of not eating meat. After that we can discuss one vs the other option in a non partisan way. I haven't had meat in 3 years and I'm better than before. Going vegan was a good decision but not what improved my health. Avoiding sugars did. If you want to meet in the middle try avoiding sugars. Once you fail the first time, try to figure out why anyone would put sugar in the thing you ate that made you fail.
I am not sure why you say I'm treating you like a vegan, or gullible. All I saw in your previous post was ignorance, like GASP chickens eating meat. And cows getting murdered.
If I come to the US I'll certainly consider a month off meat.
However why you are giving me all this dietary advice? I just asked why you think chicken in a sandwich is unhealthy and now you are trying to get me not to eat meat NOR sugar!
BTW I don't eat sugar at all and cowspiracy is trash
I'm not really a gullible person that believes everything she hears.
[X] Doubt.
But take a look at those videos.
I'll pass.
Florida is taking away the freedom of any person to eat whatever they want? Is anyone surprised?
I wanna get one of those cigarette boats and smuggle abortion pills and alternative meat into Florida and trans people out.
It'll be black with a red racing stripe and a spoiler like the A Team van and I'll name it the Baracus.
Florida state Rep. Tyler Sirois, the Republican who introduced a similar bill, HB 1071, told Politico that his major motivation is protecting the cattle industry. “Farming and cattle are incredibly important industries to Florida,” Sirois stated, adding, "So I think this is a very relevant discussion for our state to have.”
I don't agree with him on the policy, but I'll give him this: that's more honest than most people advocating for creating protectionist barriers to protect incumbent food producers that I've seen.
Usually there's something about how it's potentially deadly or maybe waving around "concerns" about whether there'd be food security in a global famine or something.
It's also a very stupid take. If that's what he thinks, then he should finance farms that transition from growing animals to growing whatever is needed in this more modern and civilised world, like high protein legumes and that sort of stuff used in producing new generation foods.
He also thinks it's an affront to nature and creation that could lead to cloning, so yeah..
Wow that's extremely anti capitalist and still sucks ass
Bravo to this guy, sucking in exactly all ways
Honestly, I didn't even think that Florida was big in the cattle industry. I mean, I know it's flat land, but I kind of associate cattle with the Great Plains.
googles
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/beef-production-by-state
Yeah, Florida is the third most populous state, but the ninth-largest beef producer. I don't think there are per-state import/export stats, but unless people in Florida consume less beef than the typical American, it seems like Florida is probably a net beef importer -- it'd be disadvantageous for Florida to have a protected market.
That being said, political economy is complicated, so maybe there's something else going on.
I love how humans try their hardest to cut down on the amount of destruction they cause only for other humans to villainize and tear them down at every turn.
Not destroying the planet and killing sentient beings is "woke", so they have to oppose it.
Because they need to keep the kill count high otherwise some other demon will surpass them.
“Furthermore, on this day, henceforth shall it be known:
If it ain’t moo, cain’t moo, won’t moo, ain’t not never gonna moo, and can’t make you moo, then it is of the devil and shall not be permitted.
Also, the words ‘front loaf’ are not permissible descriptions of the governor’s crotchetal regions.
Let it be law. “
In fairness to them it’s not meat. Don’t ban it just label it appropriately, like sparkling protein.
Medicine is too woke for Florida. So is meat, so are books.
Anyone have any predictions?
I feel like seat belts are going to be too woke soon for Florida.
Driving licenses altogether might be too woke.
Salads? Too woke for Florida
I feel like they should probably get rid of the seatbelt law… let the problem sort itself out,
Not to be too much of a dick about it... but if that's the best reason.... by all means we absolutely should.
(in reality the seat belt law has saved innumerable lives. same with warning labels. There's a lot of dangers that are not immediately obvious.)
I agree with you, I think seatbelt laws are a positive thing. I'm just pushing back on the idea that not wearing a seatbelt only impacts the individual because it's not true. People can and do suffer and die due to constraints on emergency resources like ambulances and ICU beds.
That’s true, but there’s a solution there that’s better for everyone- pay firemen/ems a livable wage, and maybe a bit more so they can pay off the school bills etc.
Yea, the covid deniers really helped the rational side of the population by weeding themselves out in similar circumstances
They wouldn't do that. They'd ban them, cuz only libtards are cowardly and gay enough to use them. Or something. I hate this timeline.
@Varyk @zarkanian Florida is too woke for Florida. It's all gonna come crashing down soon like a house of cards in the wind.
This reminds me that Miami has pumps running 24 hours a day to keep it from flooding.
So pumps will become woke soon and then Miami will be underwater.
Today I learned.
They should do what the Dutch did. But I wonder if that's also too woke..?
Oh what did the dutch do?
Even before you tell me, I can confirm that anything the Dutch does is too woke for Florida.
It was something that involved books and science, so yes, it is not something Florida would ever consider. Conservatives despise books and science.
They're actually setting up the board with some big criminal penalties for selling it. It'll have a cross state freezing effect on the vendors as a whole and transportation through states. They're going full drug war on it. I didn't expect their need for cattle farmer votes to be so acute.
Yeah, florida kinda the least relevant state for shipping when push comes to shove. Stuff is shipped into florida, but not much is shipped out of florida.
Jacksonville is actually a very busy port but mostly for roll on/roll off (cars). Still, I think that having states that will put you in jail for selling or manufacturing products might hamper your ability to do interstate business and maintain warehouses for your grocery stores.
They don't give a fuck about the cattle farmers votes. They care about that cattle farmers payment for their vote.
The joke is on you; I was being serious!
Honestly though, I wouldn't be certain it was sarcasm either given the many unfortunate belief systems I've encountered on the Internet.