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Chief enforcer of US gun laws fears Americans may become numb to violence with each mass shooting

https://apnews.com/article/maine-shooting-victims-gun-violence-atf-dettelbach-12c3ed0f8d8826b6d13dd88bf185f4e9

The head of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives says he fears that a drumbeat of mass shootings and other gun violence across the United States could make Americans numb to the bloodshed.

Chief enforcer of US gun laws fears Americans may become numb to violence with each mass shooting

Director Steve Dettelbach’s comments to The Associated Press came after he met this past week with family members of some of the 18 people killed in October at a bowling alley and a bar in Lewiston, Maine by a U.S. Army reservist who later took his own life.

He said people must not accept that gun violence is a prevalent part of American life.

64 comments

ThatFembyWho

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For me, Sandy Hook was the moment I realized we aren't going to collectively do anything about gun violence.

lars

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Seeing children cry whatever. But the amount of grownups I saw cry that day—people who I expected didn’t cry at all even—and I was like “don’t get your hopes up, self; these Americans are sadists to people unlike themselves and they are people who like horrible things”. I was delighted when I was wrong for the first six months. And then despondently correct all along since then. What kind of horrible people made out of literal garbage allow the slaughters and massacres, especially those of children, to continue? Disgusting.

Treczoks

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They don't become numb. They already are, for quite some time.

NateNate60

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When people knee-jerkingly respond to proposals to gun regulations with a subset of {God-given rights, "law-abiding citizens", American exceptionalism, analogy involving apples, founding fathers are always right, gun control doesn't work}, yes, I think you are right

Grandwolf319

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What about apples?

NateNate60

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One bad apple does not ruin the bunch

plantedworld

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Worked with a Gen-X woman when we came into work and heard about the latest mass shooting. Another millennial and I responded fairly flatly: "another one huh?" She expressed some sadness that we were so jaded, that it's just what we grew up with as normal.

Become numb?

Too late man.

jpreston2005

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When I visited the Netherlands, there was something I felt that I couldn't really find the words for at the time. It was a lightness, that upon stepping off the train and embarking down the steps to Amsterdam proper, my soul just felt light.

Later on, I'm in a weed cafe when an American couple walk in. The man walks towards the back restroom after making a purchase, leaving his significant other at the counter. She smiles with her whole body, and says loudly, perhaps louder than she realized, "you don't have a gun!" she laughs, "I feel safe!"

And that's what it was. That lightness. When we arrived, unbeknownst to us, the burden of thought that surrounds you in the U.S. where every chance encounter could lead to a violent death, where every supermarket or corner store holds within it the potential for a mass shooting. This ever prevalent threat of gun violence that surrounds us everyday, we get used to it. So used to it, that when we find ourselves somewhere without it, the feeling of peace and safety that accompany this loss is felt in your soul.

But you don't realize it's there until you feel what life can be without it. Tally it up as just another burden we carry, beholden to gun manufacturers. The toll is not just in the loss of life, but also the loss of peace within ourselves and our communities.

FaceDeer

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I live in a Canadian city, and I recall some years back there was an incident where some guy from Texas got in trouble for carrying a handgun while visiting. He raised a huge fuss on social media and went back to the US as soon as he was able, ranting about how he couldn't feel safe in Canada because they wouldn't allow him to have the ability to shoot anyone who might attack him while he was there. I wish I could find one of the news articles, there was a lot of head-shaking amusement from the locals at the time.

Really goes to show how diametrically different people can be sometimes.

catloaf

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I'm not following, who did she think might have a gun? You? Why would she have thought that?

Also, where in the US do you live that gun violence is actually surrounding you personally? I've lived in different parts of the US all my life and I've never felt that, nor a marked difference when traveling internationally.

newthrowaway20

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You're just lucky, that's all.

My neighbor woke up the other day and found a bullet hole in the side of his car and a bullet in his back seat.

It was a stray from someone randomly shooting their gun in a neighborhood. I'm just thankful the bullet was stopped by his car. It could just have easily hit one of our apartments.

player2

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Agreed, guns in public are not as common as this post implies. Additionally, I'm just as scared of a mugger with a knife. Seeing that video of someone drop dead within 3 seconds of being stabbed in the neck is pretty freaky...

force

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One time I had a seizure and almost died, apparently I was screaming extraordinarily loud while convulsing. I called 911 while I was losing awareness because I thought I was having a stroke. So a fuck ton of cop cars arrived because I allegedly specifically asked for a police to come pick me up ::: spoiler (I didn't ask for an ambulance because it'd be outrageously expensive, I ended up being transported by ambulance and then helicopter anyways, the ambulance bill was almost $1000 for a ~10-15 minute ride and the helicopter bill was multiple tens of thousands for a 10 minute ride, lol I almost died to avoid this) spoiler :::.

My friend told me after all this that, while the fuck tons of cop cars are pulled up on my lawn and I'm being carried out with makeshift bondage in a stretcher convulsing/screaming, my old ass neighbour (I'd have to guess like in his 70s) came out with a whole ass ARSENAL strapped all over his body, a rifle attached to his back, pistols and ammo around his hip, everything. And he just walks out of his house, up to the cops, and starts asking about what's happening. I didn't even KNOW this dude had guns, but apparently he's a super conservative gun-owning ""enthusiast"" and he found it appropriate to flaunt what I can only presume he perceives as "badassery" to this sea of cops including the local chief.

Maybe if I wasn't a dumbass and just asked for EMTs instead, that wouldn't have happened haha...

This isn't very relevant to your comment but it just reminded me of that situation for some reason lol.

cybervseas

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I think how common guns are in public depends on where in the USA you live. The number of signs I saw in Dallas and Fort Worth that guns are not allowed inside the building was alarming.

player2

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Yeah, Texas was the only place that I've actually witnessed casual open carry on a regular basis but to their credit I never saw any crime with a gun. However, I know people all over the country who conceal carry and you'd never know it.

I realize this is anecdotal but I witnessed the 2022 Las Vegas mass stabbing outside my hotel that killed 2 and injured 6 people. No one even knew what was happening because it was such a quick and silent attack.

My point is not that guns and knives are comparable, but that it's silly to feel afraid in the US simply because of guns, generally I'm more scared because of the mental health and wealth inequality crisis causing an increase in apparently crazy people wandering the streets.

EdibleFriend

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Missouri here. I just got done working at a walmart for 6 years. In the time i was there 2 different people had been shot by police in front of the store. I personally saw a gun get pulled right in front of my department in a huge argument but luckily the cop was just showing up over the screaming. A little bit before I left someone pulled a gun on the guy who brings your shit to your car because he took too long. That's just there. I have also been held up at gunpoint once and also had a random car shoot at me as it drove past.

Hearing gunshots outside is such a boring common thing I don't even pause my game unless it sounds like its right outside, which happens a few times a year. Usually thats just people firing 'for fun' but about 5 months ago someone was killed in my apts parking lot.

keefshape

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Well said.

athos77

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We keep trying, but the courts and legislatures are packed with 2A nutters who believe that "a well regulated militia" means there shouldn't be any restrictions on gun ownership.

DaDragon

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To be fair to those legislators, that amendment is fairly clear with its ‘shall not be infringed’ statement. The only way out of that issue is to pass a new amendment invalidating the old one.

queermunist

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Except that's not how it was interpreted until District of Columbia v. Heller in 2008.

Up until then, the right to bear arms was directly connected to the necessity of a well regulated militia. Then the Court reinterpreted it to say that the right is completely unconnected to service in a militia, and now guns are much more difficult to regulate.

Don't fall for the propaganda. The Supreme Court can just make up whatever shit they want. All that matters is who the Justices are.

afraid_of_zombies

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Those other words must be there by accident.

FaceDeer

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No, that's not being fair at all. The amendment in full reads:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

A full half of that single sentence is talking about "a well regulated militia" being the justification for allowing people to keep arms. There have been decades of flim-flammery ignoring that completely and trying to imply that the intent was to say "Militias are good for national security given how we just went through a rebellion that depended on them. Oh, and on a completely unrelated note, everyone should be allowed to carry portable machine guns and concealed hand-cannons the likes of which were never even imagined in our time."

This is a nutty interpretation.

goferking0

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Obviously the founders meant people should only focus on shall not be infringed /s

joyjoy

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Well regulated obviously means not regulated at all.

afraid_of_zombies

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I am still confused what militia is supposed to mean.

catloaf

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It's the common definition, part-time military, not a standing army. The founders of the United States didn't want a permanent military. The Constitution itself says "no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years". They felt it would tend toward militaristic authoritarianism. They wanted the national defense to be the people in general, and those people would obviously need to be armed. Thus, the second amendment, to ensure that Congress could not say "okay now only our guys can have weapons" and oppress the people.

Of course that didn't really last because it wasn't realistic, and a regular army was created almost right away.

maynarkh

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The founders of the United States didn’t want a permanent military.

One could say the US drifted just a tiny tad bit off the original vision then.

afraid_of_zombies

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Ok so why is it a right? Seems to me you are describing basically a volunteer fire department and if that is the case clearly 90 years old aren't going to be part of it. I don't know any other right that you lose by being too old.

catloaf

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Samuel Whittemore was fighting the British at 80. He got shot in the face but lived to 98.

That case is a bit unusual, but in times of war, anyone who can fight, does. And not everyone is a front-line infantryman; any military needs something like six to ten times as much support staff as fighting force. Those people are usually armed in combat zones too, because the fighting might come to them (and like the Marines say, every Marine a rifleman).

afraid_of_zombies

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Cool. Now I am just going to point to the blind. Got some anecdote from history about a blind soldier?

Also if they aren't frontline I am a bit confused about why they need a gun. I have done a bit of work on some Navy stuff as a civilian and a rifle wouldn't have help me much in that task.

Can you name another right that vanishes based on physical fitness?

catloaf

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I'm sure there have been blind soldiers, but I don't know any off the top of my head.

Like I said, any servicemember in a combat zone might be armed, because the fight could come to them. If the other guys try to overrun your defense, you don't want all those people sitting around helpless, you want them to fight back.

It's not specifically dependent on physical fitness, it's about service in a militia, despite what SCOTUS said in Heller. Conscientious objectors, for example, would probably not be militiamen and therefore would be looked at with suspicion if they didn't have another good reason to own firearms (e.g. sport shooting, gunsmithing, or hunting, though I'm not sure they'd want to participate in those either).

Tronn4

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Hold up. There's an enforcer? The fuk has they been doing all these years?

maynarkh

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The head of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Yeah I think he was focusing his attention on drugs mostly. In some sense at least.

force

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And dogs

SmoothIsFast

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Shooting dogs and making laws without the approval of Congress.

PsychedSy

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Trying to claim accessories are NFA and turning law abiding gun owners into felons.

Coreidan

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Busy increasing the valuation of pornhub.

Varyk

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It's chilling talking to Americans about gun violence.

They are well past any early desensitization.

And they definitely accept gun violence as a prevalent part of their lives.

Citizens from other countries are truly horrified if you posit the idea if a mass shooting to them, especially involving children.

American responses range from "look, the thing is...bullshit false rationalization they don't understand" to "I know, it's fucking bullshit!" followed by a shake of their head and a shrug of their shoulders.

Those are the extremes. Usually it's just an exasperated sigh.

pearsaltchocolatebar

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That's because we know our leaders don't give a fuck about the will of the people, and they've stacked the deck so voting really doesn't matter anymore.

Varyk

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Not true, that's a lazy conservative talking point.

It isn't "the leaders" and it isn't both sides, conservatives have led a successful concerted effort to shackle the effects and rights of voters for decades precisely because of how important voting was and still is.

You throwing up your hands and falsely implying there's no point in voting is dancing to the tune of those who want voting not to matter.

People voted out trump, for example.

Skin of their teeth, but voting got it done.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod

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It's been 25 years since Columbine and I've been voting the whole time. When will it start to work?

Varyk

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You notice trump not being elected president in 2024?

The keystone xl pipeline being canceled.

Transgender ban in the military being reversed, funding for LGBTQ civil rights groups.

Student debt relief in the tens of billions.

Rejoining Paris climate agreement.

Hundreds of thousands of government buildings and vehicles being renovated or replaced to follow sustainable guidelines.

The largest American infrastructure update and development in history.

These changes and many, many more happened in three years because trump was voted out.

Voting matters.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod

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I am not convinced that if I hadn't voted those things wouldn't have happened anyway.

Also: Still guns.

force

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I mean that's just the paradox of voting. One vote doesn't "matter", in the sense that elections with thousands to millions of voters are almost never decided by a minute number of votes, but the impact of contributing to a culture of "my vote doesn't matter" is that people just don't vote, enough to change the outcome of an election.

Semi-Hemi-Demigod

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I vote and just assume in won't do anything. That keeps my expectations low so I'm not disappointed and stop voting.

Varyk

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Good point about guns, Biden created the first ever white house gun violence prevention office, provided funding to focus on gun violence prevention, passed the most significant gun reform legislation in decades, launched new strike forces to combat illegal arms trafficking, begin an interagency cooperation program to combat suicide rates, and tons more for gun violence prevention.

Dumps: "I was proud to be the most pro-gun, pro-Second Amendment president you've ever had in the White House" before promising to expand gun rights.

Voting matters

Semi-Hemi-Demigod

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Ooo yeah, hit me with that "If you're disappointed then you want Trump" shit. That's my fucking kink.

AA5B

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May? There long since stopped being enough outrage to do anything about it. We’ve been numb to it a long time

itsgroundhogdayagain

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Too late

EnderLaw

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May?

TechNerdWizard42

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The US is a failed shithole nation. Another mass shooting? Thoughts and prayers, what's for lunch?

Yes the violence is everywhere, gun violence and just aggressive natural attitudes that make life terrible. To the people that always say "well I don't have that type of crime/gun violence/issue, it's way exaggerated", well you're wrong. You literally have become numb to it because it is everywhere.

MxM111

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I find it as good development. When we stop writing about each shooting in all newspapers, discussing it on TV 24/7, filling internet with it, only then those nutjobs stop considering mass shooting as something that can be done by them too to shock others.

Pogogunner

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The ATF wants us to become numb to burning children to death.

iterable

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People I once could say I respected became cold way to fast. It is even shown in many other parts of their life. I always hope they can find the way back to who they were. But I feel like it will take a long time. But I will not give up trying to hold my ground on trying to do the right thing. Remember many will become dull to the world but as long as some of us hold on and show them their is a better way. We can keep hope alive.

njm1314

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I know I'm certainly getting there.

mctoasterson

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Dettelbach is a major douche and his testimony before Congress just confirmed it.

thatsnothowyoudoit

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Great podcast called The Gun Machine covers how the ATF has to work with both hands tied behind their backs (just one of many great episodes about Guns and American society).

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/1108749261/the-gun-machine