Now that you have settled here on Lemmy. What is your impression of it?
To me it feels like a matured Reddit. (At least most of the time 🙃)
To me it feels like a matured Reddit. (At least most of the time 🙃)
Less content to go through, so you end up going through posts and comments a bit more thoroughly. This translates to higher engagement from users overall compared to Reddit.
The con of course is less content to go through.
Agree. For about half of what I’m interested in, there’s some activity on Lemmy and the conversations aren’t just “no u.”
I wish I didn’t have to, but I still lurk on Reddit for some very specific hobby and occupation hubs. I think there’s a lot more “blue collar” activity over there than there is over here.
A lot more entertainment, too.
I'm still astonished there isn't an active movies or television presence over here. Feels like the topics over here are primarily news, technology, politics, but pop culture, movies, music, television, even gaming have somewhat low activity. Really bizarre those haven't gotten firm footing.
I'm wondering how much of that is the sorting algorithm. Waiting patiently for lemmy.world to implement 19.0 so we can get the scaled sort working properly, but that seems to have been...stalled or something.
!anime@ani.social and !chat@literature.cafe has good enough engagement that every week there is something to talk about
So make some content. Almost all of these posts seem to be about not having content to consume, but someone has to make it too. Reddit used to have the same problem, the Internet was just smaller back then.
I think matured reddit is literally correct. People here at least seem older.
However people here definitely are also of a certain group. Which is not too surprising - it's a certain demographic taken from Reddit, not a random subsample. This is not really a good thing.
People here also seem more extreme in their political opinions (as in, not very "usual" or "casual" political views). This makes discussions a bit one-sided and polarized... But then again political discussions on reddit have always been so nice and proper and productive in comparison right /s
However I also see a lot of reasonable people and a lot of hope. I see more politeness (mostly outside of any political stuff).
I also like that people have choices - choice of instance and choice of client for example.
There's some good and bad but for me it's basically reddit with a bit less activity and slightly different experience but not significantly so. I'm confident that more people will come over time and that will solve most issues. And the benefits will still be there by then.
I like how on Lemmy we can actually talk about things such as Climate Change. If the question is 1 + 1 = ? then we can discuss whatever the actual solution might be - whether it be 3, -1, 1.9, 2.1, whatever - as opposed to "it's not even happening and you are stupid for thinking that it is".
That's not even Right vs. Left, it should just be Polite, and it is Engaging and Fun or at least more so than getting yelled at by bots and toddlers on Reddit.
Friendlier than reddit, but a lot more really stupid hot takes than reddit. Not as many shitheads; but the shit heads that are here are even shittier than anywhere else I've been on the Internet. Mostly the super paranoid security and super hardcore "free speech" folks that are like the main character of Conspiracy Theory. This platform seems to attract a lot of those.
Makes sense. There are two types of people here: those that left reddit by choice, and those that got ran off because they were assholes.
To be fair, I didn't exactly come here by choice; I was ran off of reddit because Spez is an asshole and killed off the only good way to use the site on a mobile device. Though had I known about Lemmy before the appocalypse I would have come by choice. I didn't know about it until all that kerfuffle and was already looking for alternatives.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. There are some hilariously poor takes on here, and some that were never an issue on Digg or early-days Reddit. I've had arguments on here that I've never had anywhere else, from Americans telling me that I am incorrect about my own country, people telling me that I am wrong about software I've literally worked on with my employer, and frankly some of the worst political views you'd find on a left-leaning board.
I can tolerate the Linux and security nutjobs, because they're just rehashing the same tired arguments from a decade ago, and will be making up the same nonsense about switching their parents from Windows to Linux and them just saying "oh, that's nice, it's really good" all while they're just happy that their son is interacting with humans for a change.
I think that's kinda just become an issue everywhere. People are a lot more brazen with their stupidity now than ever before.
Literally true, bc when an actual world leader (USA, UK, Canada, ofc Israel, Brazil, etc. etc. etc.) says stuff, some people strangely are likely to believe it.
Like: "Drink bleach". I am 100% not kidding you there - multiple people did precisely that!
It emboldens the crazies to realize that they are not alone.:-(
I can tolerate the Linux and security nutjobs, because they’re just rehashing the same tired arguments from a decade ago, and will be making up the same nonsense about switching their parents from Windows to Linux and them just saying “oh, that’s nice, it’s really good” all while they’re just happy that their son is interacting with humans for a change.
Ouch, man
Sadly so many of the tech people here are the kind of slashdot dredge that think gluing USB ports shut is good for security and installing a Plex server is the solution to any media-related problem expressed.
There's also that weird "we're better than people on Reddit" smugness.
It's rare, but it is a unique brand of fuckery you don't have to deal with over there.
Back in the day I used to see tons of posts claiming that Reddit was "the elite", in comparison to the likes of Facebook, or Twitter, or Tumblr, or Instagram, and so on. So, while your statement is technically true (the best kind!), that anti-Reddit people don't tend to say so...on Reddit, so much as here anyway (though if you look in the likes of r/ModCoord, occasionally there is a comment that makes it past the new mods and is allowed to criticize Reddit in some way) I think it's common to all social media. We (in-group) are The Best! :-P
There’s also that weird “we’re better than people on Reddit” smugness.
It’s rare, but it is a unique brand of fuckery you don’t have to deal with over there.
Isn't the Reddit equivalent something along the lines of, "We're better than people on [social media]" smugness? Social media being a catchall for say, Facebook, Twitter, or in the past few years, TikTok.
It reminds me of the classic silliness of competing forums for the same subject/topic back in the day. "We on TechFans95 are so much better than people on TechFans94" and vice versa.
The smugness can be a bit annoying but I interpret it as mostly jokes and healthy for the growth of the platform. I am enjoying myself more here than on Reddit, and when I see that others share that sentiment (smugly or not), it does embolden me to encourage my friends to give Lemmy a try.
Did you just reframe smugness as not only justified but helpful actually, and really it makes a place more popular?
That's some 4D smugness.
Idk, if all the discussion on Lemmy was 'damn this place sucks' then I wouldn't want to share it with my friends. Maybe it is just a bad take though lol I'm not feeling too hot on it reading it back now
This is all in good nature... I mean, there is a reason why quite a few of us are here. Myself included.
...and yeah, I'd like to see healthy engagement here and if that means a little smugness just to convince people to get involved, I'll take it.
As an open platform that's similar to reddit, I'm in favor of it.
The reality though is not that great. And a lot of it comes down to at least some of the people who are here.
There doesn't really seem to be enough content to allow for browsing a curated list of communities yet, so I mainly browse by all. And what I have seen are a handful of seemingly extreme viewpoints with little to no room for nuance and discussion and an attitude from those people that they are absolutely correct in their beliefs and ideas. I'm talking tankies, hatred for Israel, hatred for cars, hatred for landlords/renting, and evangelism for Linux.
I know that having extreme attitudes is certainly not unique to lemmy as it exists all over the Internet and elsewhere. But it does seem to be fairly concentrated here. And again, without enough engagement in the smaller or more niche communities there isn't really enough content on its own.
So instead of actively browsing communities I want which would likely end up with very little content, I have started blocking instances and communities instead so I can still get a mix, but filter out things that I don't like. And that doesn't make for a great experience.
I have also seen some really stupid/ridiculous admin/mod drama that people also seemed to think wouldnt carry over from reddit, but of course it has.
All that to say, I still enjoy it enough to continue to browse. But I don't really participate often. And it has to a degree eliminated at least some of the bullshit from reddit.
I'm talking tankies, hatred for Israel, hatred for cars, hatred for landlords/renting, and evangelism for Linux.
That's a good summation
If Reddit was a water park, Lemmy is the small adult jacuzzi room in the back.
The soak and poke?
Personally, I find the people here very elitist and unwelcoming, and I have found myself spending less and less time here because of it.
And argumentative and pointlessly contrarian. Reddit had that problem too, but it seems more ubiquitous here.
It's a human problem. Only way to avoid it is to not use social media. I'm about to hop off everything it is making me lose hope in my fellow humans seeing some of the comments I see. It's also baffling how genuinely stupid some people come across, or sometimes it's clear they just don't understand what the words they are reading are even conveying.
Interesting, really? Maybe I just don’t engage with people that much, but it seems pretty chill or at least definitely no worse than Reddit in that regard
It definitely depends on the community. I'm mostly noticing it in the meme communities. A high percentage of jokes in the memes that I see are at the expense of a group that I am a part of, and I guess I just don't really relate to the people here. So I just don't come back very often.
That could explain the difference in experiences. I filter out those communities as best I can given the tools available.
Have you not seen the Linux fanboys on Lemmy? I see a post every day at least about how Windows is terrible or how x browser is inferior to Firefox.
Mmm, well yes the Linux bias is pretty strong but I don’t really like windows either hahaha. I see where you’re coming from though, that could be a little off putting if you aren’t at least a little into Linux
Yeah, it's really horrible. Never experienced this level of hostile, argumentative know-it-alls anywhere else.
I have to assume half of Lemmy is people banned from reddit for being like this. Im worried they're slowly scaring away everyone else and its distilling the ecosystem into a toxic pit
Could be worse, at least it’s not Voat, which consisted of ALL people and communities banned from Reddit (and usually for good reason aka racism, sexism, fat people hate)
As someone who spent around half my life in IT and half in humanities, there's a lot less humanities content here than in Reddit or old Twitter. You might not notice it because you might have gravitated towards the IT side of those sites but it's noticeable here
Feels like an echo chamber filled with angry political activists that seem more interested in hating and breaking things rather than discussing solutions. Can't say I like it here but for some reason I keep coming back. I probably block on average 3 to 7 people a day but doesn't seem to make much of a difference. Makes me further lose my hope in humanity if I'm completely honest.
yeah we have so many useless instance that already exist and thriving in reddit so why bring it here? their subreddit already as sound proof as hell in reddit as echo chamber and they still come here to spread their annoying voice again, sigh( im tired of the post of hating rich people over and over) like come on man I know you hate rich people already
It's true tho. Calling for violence or people's death is normal here, no nuance in the discussion, it feels like very few people are there to discuss, rather than validate their own, cemented opinions.
Define "here". The acceptance for that sort of thing can vary wildly between communities and, IMHO more significantly, instances.
If you see such posts, stop and see which instance they're posted from. You might see some patterns.
Well, it wasn't hexbear or the other one if you are asking about that. It was one on the Blahaj zone, which supposedly is a chill instance, and yet plenty of hate.
I agree, the amount of "This person needs to die" is crazy here.
There is even less room for a nuanced discussion of anything.
Compared to Reddit
Hey in the spirit of the third point, I recently learned that if you put four spaces at the end of a line, you can then do a line break and it'll treat it as a real new line, instead of just moving your second line to the end of your first.
See?
Like this.
Pretty cool stuff.
Cool. It does seem like there’s functionality in whatever form of markup there is here, but I barely learned Reddit’s and here I know very little yet
Yeah, it's a little weird that even broader topics tend to struggle here (e.g. music/tv & movies/books). Not as surprising with the niche stuff, as that can be pretty quiet even on other more popular platforms.
Agreed on point 1 the answer is we all need to create more posts. We can't expect others to do it for us.
I was enjoying it, but two things are getting tiring: the lack of social sciences and humanities, and especially the misogynistic 'tone' of some users.
As a sociology major who is also a fan of the humanities, I totally agree with you. While I've always been much more of a lurker than a regular poster--even while I was on Reddit--it still seems like there isn't a lot of content here that I feel I can really contribute to or engage with. The most prevalent posts all seem to be tech related or are just doom and gloom stories. It makes this place feel cold and bleak.
And yeah, the casual and even blatant misogyny from some of the users is appalling (I still remember that post about the career fair for women months back that got overrun with angry men).
It really feels like Reddit circa-2023, particularly the bad ways. Lemmy.world is the worst for that.
I feel like half of the people on here are 45yo Linux sysadmins, and the other half are Germans
Yeah, my level of German has increased just reading them all 🇩🇪
And I like their pasta thing
They started putting noodles on all the memes' heads because the guy who keeps posting memes is called InstantNoodles
We may have to talk about spaetzle. I wasn’t familiar with it but it looks like a great idea …..
How easy is it to eat? My teen is home after getting his wisdom teeth out and I’m trying to figure out meals he can eat. Pasta can go either way - macaroni is fine. Tortellini may be as soft but is too big for the tooth area he is comfortable using. Gnocchi is too chewy. If I don’t get a new pasta idea on the right side, it’s time to move into fish: salmon is flaky so should be good. Canned tuna is broken up but real tuna is too chewy. I wonder if cod is flaky enough
Spaetzle is generally chewy. Similar to dumplings in effort. Prob not what you're looking for.
My grandmother combined spaetzle with American chicken noodle soup. Made broth, thickened with flour, cut the spaetzle long and thick. It's amazing.
For the first few months on the platform, I noticed these trends that I would end up agreeing with later on:
Liking, or straight up adoring Linux
Disliking, or straight up despising cars
Everyone is left-wing and liberal
Israel stinks
Rainbows galore
Big companies are cringe
Independent media is based
Products made by big companies are known to be spyware
The Chromium "open-source" browser, as well as the engine that it uses, is basically the reason why Firefox is dying out
Right-wing politicians are bad
Piracy is basically fighting for freedom of information on the internet, especially when big companies tend to be so overprotective of their intellectual property in situations where they don't really need to
Free, open source software is basically the future
The European Union is basically where everyone on Lemmy lives in real life, and if not, it's where everyone wants to live (which is my case given that I'm from Morocco)
Other very notable points that I have when comparing Reddit with Lemmy are the following:
The community is very passionate yet very small, it kinda feels like Animal Crossing
Goddammit, having multiple instances federating with each other is such an amazing thing that literally nobody can wholly own the thing and make crappy decisions that end up ruining the whole thing at once (cough cough Twitter)
API is free, API is free, API is free
Being such an obscure platform, it has helped me tremendously with cutting down on social media usage due to how insanely addicting it can be at times, sometimes in the worst possible scenarios, like when you have an exam tomorrow
I'm pretty grateful that I made the decision to ditch Reddit for good. I really like this place, and I mean a lot. I wouldn't be called "Resol van Lemmy" if it weren't for Spez being such an ass.
I came over during the Reddit migration but I'm so tired of every post either being about Israel/Palestine, late-stage capitalism, or femboys...
or worse - when the post is about something completely different but the comments are about Israel/Palestine, late-stage capitalism, or femboys...
I had somehow curated my Reddit to be mostly about the topics I wanted to read about, but I can't seem to get that to happen here. I've been blocking communities and instances but my feed is still mostly stuff I don't really want to read about...
I'm currently waiting to see what happens when Reddit IPOs but I doubt I'll go back there and will probably just stop coming to lemmy too.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
Where are you seeing all these femboy comments? Is there a part of Lemmy I’m missing out on? All I see are the Linux/FOSS comments.
but I'm so tired of every post either being about Israel/Palestine, late-stage capitalism, or femboys...
I'm not sure why that's been your experience. I avoid politics and news quite successfully around here.
My overall analysis is positive. Not a full perfect score, but better than Reddit. (Note: ++/+/=/-/-- indicated in comparison with Reddit, not in absolute terms.)
A genetic fallacy is a claim that something is true/false based on its origin. It's a catch-all term for ad hominem, appeal to authority, appeal to novelty/tradition, etymological fallacy, so goes on.
Users in both Reddit and Lemmy really, really love to engage in this fallacy. I don't know why, but if I had to take a guess, it's because taking into account the origin of a claim in a non-fallacious way prevents them from voicing certainty on a matter, and plenty here/there have an irrational hatred against doubt.
Ah interesting, never heard that term. I was thinking it was believing that x race has a smaller brain or something, but I was gonna say I hadn't run across too many white supremacists on lemmy.
Yeah, the "genetic" there isn't related to our chunks of DNA, it's there for "origin". Think on it as "the fallacy of the genesis of the argument".
When it comes to racism Lemmy is way better than Reddit, since the typical user here has better reading comprehension. In Reddit you can outright say something racist and nobody will bat an eye, as long as you avoid easy-to-spot words like slurs; here it doesn't work. Same deal with transphobia, misogyny etc.
I am not sure if reading comprehension is the reason hate gets to stay on Reddit. I think it's genuine denial and/or acceptance from the mods, and especially acceptance from admin.
Seems to me that for validating information on subjects that one isn't an expert in, source would be important.
You can use sources to strengthen a claim in a non-fallacious way, through inductive² reasoning. However, most people in Lemmy and Reddit don't; they want to eat the cake (use deductive¹ reasoning) and have it too (use the origin of a claim as part of the argument), and that's the genetic fallacy.
And, if I had to take a guess on why they do it, it's probably because:
So inductive reasoning introduces a lot of complexity and doesn't let you vomit certainty. And yet both userbases are full of people who want to lie to themselves that they know something and that reality is simple.
And that's actually a big deal. Because, when you accept the genetic fallacy as solid reasoning (it isn't), you're opening the door to a lot of shitty manipulative tactics.
Notes/clarification:
I think I know what you're saying, though maybe an example might help. But we're talking about comments on the Web here, not a scientific paper. Most of us can not be subject matter experts and must use inductive reasoning to get by in life. And often have to depend on other sources like articles from trusted sources or scientific papers we're not very equipped to vet to shape our understanding of the world.
Just saying maybe your expectations are too high for a public Web forum.
I see what you mean. I'll try to give an example.
I tend to be skeptical of folks when I know they're incentivized monetarily, emotionally, or socially to believe a certain thing but I do my best not to discount them out of hand. I think most people have a tendency to write folks off completely when it's more useful to accept uncertainty. To know that a piece of information might be right even if it challenges my worldview. Unfortunately uncertainty is kinda hard work.
For instance, the US has a lot of incentive to make alternative economic systems seem awful. Anytime a pro US media source like Radio Free Asia says something negative about China. I have to accept that:
I have to accept that balance.
This works well for situations that don't effect me personally. On the other hand, if there's a person who has a predatory reputation in my friend group, I don't have the luxury of giving them the benefit of the doubt. They are a present danger to myself and the people around me.
If people were using inductive reasoning, that would be fine. They aren't - as I said they're trying to eat the cake and have it too: "expert said so, then it's true/false lol lmao".
And in the process they rush towards certainty on things that might be completely false, often because they're being manipulated to do so - because it's trivially easy to claim authority over a subject, or to stain someone else's authority over it.
Just saying maybe your expectations are too high for a public Web forum.
My expectations - not just for web forums, but also for real life - is that, when we don't know something, we shouldn't claim that it's true or false. It's fine to conjecture, it's fine to say what you think/guess, but not to make a hard statement, unless you have good grounds to do so.
And inductive reasoning does not give you those good grounds to claim certainty.
However, I think that in web forums this rubs your typical user the wrong way. They want to believe that they know something, but aren't willing to spend the necessary effort to do so.
I would appreciate more people discussing things with these ideas in mind.
Between the echo chamber sentiment, and people's difficulty with empathy or accepting there could be other view points, it's hard to maneuver around hot topics and learn anything.
The extreme left sentiment has been repeatedly mentioned, but I'm honestly still hoping to learn other people's perspectives here.
I'll use some silly examples.
Ad hominem - taking a claim as automatically false because of who said it:
Ad autoritatem - taking a claim as automatically true because of who said it:
Sometimes authorities are wrong. The likelihood of being wrong might be smaller than the one of a random nobody, but it's still there. You can't simply deal with it as "authority said so then it's true". (Check what I said about inductive logic in the other comment.)
There's more, but they all boil down to "you aren't analysing the claim, you're analysing where the claim is from".
One example that happens quite often is "look, Uyghurs are in forced labour camps in China", and the genetic fallacy response is "nooo that was reported by the New York Times which is an organ of western imperialism so it's all bullshit you're a westoid goon"
I generally agree, but there is absolutely no way that witch hunting is worse here than on reddit. There was a shitton of doxxing and people being very aggressive over minor things, like YouTube drama. Also the Boston Bombing incident? It's not even close.
Most everything here seems spot-on, as to be expected from you who are careful with your words so that they can be relied upon:-).
But there is one aspect that doesn't mesh with my own experiences. I am not doubting that you are seeing it, but personally I have not seen much serious witch-hunting since leaving Reddit, or rather, since I blocked hexbear and lemmygrad.ml. Can you elaborate more on that? Is it limited more to certain communities, or certain instances? I wonder if I am merely leading a charmed existence here that differs from the norm, but even if so, that would mean that curation is possible to avoid that.
I did see a LOT of that in Reddit subs though, so it could be that my standard of comparison was perturbed from that side of the matter.
And Reddit did change me: I used to be proud of never blocking anyone at all, always ready for conversation with pretty much anyone who was even halfway trying, but now I do it and don't think twice when I realize that someone is not trying at all. So... perhaps I've blocked away this entire aspect of Lemmy, which if so, I will consider a success rather than its opposite:-).
I'll ping @Hubi@feddit.de, so I can address both comments together, OK?
I'm aware that this depends a lot on the sampling, and it's influenced by sampling biases*, but I do think that witch hunting has become a bigger problem here than it is in Reddit. Specially when it comes to two things:
I don't think that this is coming specially from Lemmygrad and Hexbear users; it seems to me like a more general problem.
Then there's the case of a certain admin team of a large instance, weaponising witch hunting to silence criticism against two governments (Russian Federation and The People's Republic of China) as if it was xenophobia (i.e. hostility geared towards people, not abstract structures of power), without explicitly saying "we won't tolerate criticism against certain governments here". That admin team is however a special case.
*in Reddit I was mostly hanging around small subreddits, where the problem doesn't seem as bad. In the meantime it's possible that I notice this more in Lemmy because, in other aspects, the userbase is better behaved. So yeah, I'm aware that this might not be accurate for other posters.
Thank you. Of course you are free to believe as you like but I did find your comment interesting and enjoy talking about it:-). Let's go from the bottom of your comment up towards the top: I agree that we tend to expect much more from those who act like adults than those who are already acting like children in every other way, so in that sense this would be a good problem to have, as in one source of bias in an otherwise highly agreeable experience, as opposed to Reddit where it's just one more splinter of shit.
Next, I thought the admin team that you mentioned was Lemmygrad? Which doesn't negate your point, it's just that my entire view of the Fediverse (lately) is without either that or hexbear, which explains why I am not seeing it as often, if indeed it is concentrated in such areas (who, like Reddit, seem to act more like children than adults). Although then, if indeed it is concentrated in a few areas, then it is possible for a user to avoid this source of bias. A known bias isn't the same as a non-existent one, but at least its being known allows for it to be controllable. I will be curious to hear how or if your thinking evolves as a result of us discoursing on this particular matter:-).
CP I have to (somewhat) disagree with you on: the definition of a "witch hunt" being "a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views", which implies that a fully welcoming society should not do thus, i.e. that a person should be innocent until proven guilty. On the other hand, CP is literally a full-on actual crime in many countries, so a place sending content such as that out across the entire Fediverse can bring the unwanted attention of authorities not only to the place hosting that content but to any place federated with it as well. i.e. it seemed to me to be less of a "witch hunt" than a "self-policing" so that external authorities did not need to step in and pass regulations (or enforce existing ones) to shut down Fediverse servers, treating them like pirate seeding bays or such. Also, by definition they are not "innocent" if such content has already been shared that "proves their guilt" - the crossing of an actual, legal line really does make the situation different.
Therefore, you likely don't even mean that per se, and rather something one step removed, as in witch-hunting not actual CP but just people being nervous about anything that even remotely seems similar. That... seems understandable though? e.g. if your house was robbed, then you might spend extra time peeking out the window for awhile, for fear of it happening again. Especially if door locks haven't been implemented yet:-). Overall though, the Fediverse has to pick one side or the other there (of the law): either it is a pirate signal that attempts to evade detection and being shut down by authority structures, or else it cooperates with it. We seem to have decided (against the former and for the latter), hence people are understandably nervous about rogue entities that may jeopardize what we are building here. Especially since all a bully needs is an excuse to shut us down - e.g. Reddit, Meta, Twitter/X, etc. - and I would not put it past someone like Musk to intentionally share CP, then use that fact in a campaign to try and prevent his biggest rival (Mastodon) from competing with his profits. Thus, with the stakes being so very high (one morning we may wake up to find that all or a/some major instance(s) has(ve) been shut down?), and the existing amount of protection so low (as you say mod tools are next to nonexistent)... anyway, I would not call this "witch-hunting" then, b/c of the implication (in modern times at least) that the target is innocent in such situations (and I mean that entirely separately from morals, just in the sense of fulfilling the letter of the law). Though I am not sure what phrase would suit it better - something acknowledging that people performing actual crimes using the Fediverse, and which may cause the Fediverse to be shut down, is not good for the Fediverse as a whole? But maybe you meant something else entirely, in which case I hope all of this was at least somewhat interesting to read regardless:-).
Right-wingers... yeah that one I think you are probably right. And it goes along with politics bleeding into non-political matters too like cartoons and memes that specifically ask in the rules to be non-political (as distinct from the actual political memes communities - e.g. one on lemmy.world, another on lemmy.ca, and surely there are others). Fwiw, the overturning of Roe v. Wade in the USA, and the act of Brexit in the UK, really have people on edge lately - some people talking here may literally DIE, or lose their jobs, or some other huge life-altering effect as a result of politics not leaving them alone, even if they wanted to ignore politics. Ironically though, the extremeness of the irl events highlights all the more the dire need to have a place that people can come to get away from all of that, if they wish to escape that for just ONE MOMENT and, e.g., enjoy a Star Trek meme:-P.
That said, being a fairly centrist person myself, I tend to get reactions FAR more often from far-right-wingers accusing me of not being far-right-wing enough than from left-wingers doing similarly. Even in such meta-matters, of talking about how we all talk about such relevant matters, the two sides are FAR from equal. Though, it's also a LOT more common in X (I hear, I literally do not have an account there) and on Reddit than here inside the Fediverse. And yet, I can definitely see what you mean if you are comparing not to "Reddit as a whole" but "certain specific, smaller Reddit communities" - those two categories are LEAGUES apart from one another, the latter being a million times better (and entirely plausibly still worth visiting, even now?) while the former has devolved into a shitstorm that just is not worth going to, for an educated adult human person imho. So: mystery solved then!:-D
TLDR: witch-hunting exists here, and even if far less so than on general (not niche sub) Reddit, it is more noticeable b/c here we expect better. Though is a common problem across all social media, not specific to here. [Insert in-group membership signals here, to increase acceptance of and therefore maximize accrual of fake internet points?:-P]
The admin team* that I'm talking about is lemmy.ml's. It would be within its* moral rights as instance owners to say "we don't want criticism against the Russian Federation or the PRC here", but that is not what it's doing - instead it removes any sort of criticism against either, under allegations that it violates rule 1 (no bigotry), leading others to believe that the content was xenophobic, and that's what makes it witch hunting.
*note: I'm treating "the admin team" as a single entity to avoid naming the ones doing it.
The definition of witch hunting that I use is a bit more inclusive - it's "publicly accusing one or more people of belonging to a morally reprehensible group, without having grounds to do so". It doesn't require an organised campaign. That's relevant when it comes to the CP talk.
i.e. it seemed to me to be less of a “witch hunt” than a “self-policing” so that external authorities did not need to step in and pass regulations (or enforce existing ones) to shut down Fediverse servers, treating them like pirate seeding bays or such.
It's self-policing when it's targetting actual CP and their spreaders, like the guys in LW did. That's the right thing to do.
It starts being what I call witch hunt when pointing fingers at distasteful but not CP content, saying that "this is pedo shit". I've seen the later happening here a few times, not just from lemmy.ml admins but from other users.
(Now thinking, most of those users were from lemmy.ml, lemmygrad and hexbear. Perhaps it's a fair point that most witch hunting comes from LG/HB? I'm a bit biased towards both as a communist, perhaps I'm being unfairly lenient towards them.)
So it's closer to what you said about people being nervous about anything that even remotely seems similar. Being nervous is IMO understandable; accusing people is not.
That said, being a fairly centrist person myself, I tend to get reactions FAR more often from far-right-wingers accusing me of not being far-right-wing enough than from left-wingers doing similarly.
Ah, the alt right bloody loves some witch hunt, too. For them everyone is a degenerate woke bluepilled whatever, unless you're actively spamming slurs. And it's kind of funny, because they talk all the time about how the left is "virtue signalling", but they do something similar all the time, to avoid being witch hunted by their peers.
Oh no, I must have misremembered the details about lemmy.ml and conflated the original developers of Lemmy as being in charge of lemmygrad, not lemmy.ml? (or perhaps it was... both? or something like that?) Thank you for setting me straight. Yes I am with you there... now:-).
Something that sets LG and HB apart from other places is not merely what was said, but the manner in which things are handled. e.g. I say one thing that merely doesn't support their world-view hard enough and even WEEKS later they barage my account endlessly with continued mockery. More importantly, not just once but as a firmly established pattern of behavior. That is just not how I want to spend my time, on the internet or irl. It is LEAGUES apart from this civil discussion format that you and I are having - each willing to bend, not so much to each other but to whatever the Truth happens to be. If I am correct (hey, even a stopped watch...), or if you are, or neither, or both - it is that chasing after TRUTH that concerns us, and unites us in our shared mission.
Neither admiration nor equality are mandatory there (e.g. a hypothetical discussion between an adult moderator and a child first-time lemmy-er), but respect is, being foundational to the communication process. B/c otherwise what good is "tRuTh" when it cannot be conveyed, due to corruption introduced by the message delivery method? i.e. a truthful message is no longer truthful when it becomes corrupted, either by the delivery method or by the deliver-er (the latter goes off on a tangent that could get quite a bit deeper but the short version being that the message thus proferred for deliver is no longer the real message - e.g. if the truth were 1+1=2 but the sender caused the addition of +1 to each element, then 2+2=3 is no longer an accurate representation of the TRUE original statement; nor even would 1+1+1=2+1, b/c while that one preserves the mathematical integrity, it still differs in other ways e.g. it would take more resources to store, or brush strokes and paint supplies to write down if it were intended to be represented in such a manner, etc.).
Getting back to how this relates to LG and HB: their lack of respectful forms of communication makes them "wrong", regardless of whether the message they were originally aiming to convey was correct or not. I do not care if you are a communist, anarchist, freedumb-loving bald-eagle slaying Americunt or whatever, you are respectful to people, and I love that about you. In case you are interested, imho they do NOT seem like "your people". That said, I acknowledge that I am VERY biased myself here, b/c I have judged them by the worst set of interactions that I have had with them... and yet, is that not mostly a fair way to do things? (someone who kills is usually called a "murderer", someone who steals is usually a "thief", and so on) I am aware ofc that not every single person on them is "that" way, nor do I particularly care b/c I had a problem with some large-ish fraction of their userbase, which I solved by blocking them, and now I am happily enjoying the Fediverse, whereas before I was not happy anytime I forgot and accidentally responded even to what may seem like an innocuous meme post on it. If that one simple action (well, that pair of blocks) can dramatically improve my Fediverse experience, then I am happy to think of LG and HB as "a place where people tend to be disrespectful" (surely not all, but enough of them that they warrant that description?). And unless someone convinces me otherwise, I am also happy to share that opinion, in case it may help others to similarly improve their own Fediverse experiences.
Likewise, it seems that you are suggesting that even if in a far more limited scope, lemmy.ml has a lot of similarities. To confirm your suspicion: yes I was thinking about the LW handling of the actual CP. And I guess I do not know about the lemmy.ml handling of it - though I would draw a distinction between some commenter filing a report saying "this is pedo shit" vs. an actual admin implementing a policy, whether written and agreed to in advance aka above-board or unwritten and enacted on the sly. Still, if enough of them do that then... yes, I see that you are correct, that's "witch-hunting".
Though I was pointing out how Reddit at-large was LEGENDARY for doing that, though typically more in the most popular (and therefore largest) centralized subs, while the smaller & more niche subs were able to get away from all of that and at least have a chance at a better mod team. At least, if they did not rock the boat too awfully hard during the protests that went on.
About right-wingers: every accusation is a confession, yeah. Though left-wingers do have a different set of issues, e.g. the ivory tower / walled-garden approach that aims to be "correct" even while not actually being thus, i.e. this witch-hunting that we are discussing now. Between the two though, the Left vs. Right, they do not love witch-hunging "equally": I would say that the Right uses that tactic far more often, at least in the sense that there are some few Leftists who do not use it, where I have yet to see a Rightist that does not.
So I think my point might be phrased as saying that it might not be fully fair to say that the Fediverse has a witch-hunt problem that is in excess of what was observed on Reddit. Though you have convinced me that it is significantly larger than I thought here, while I hope that in turn I have convinced you that it is also possibly less extensive that you thought here (being more concentrated in a few areas rather than baked in throughout the entire Fediverse) but more to the point that Reddit was far more so. Especially nowadays, where the mods are extremely often the literal scabs at best and at worst the very people who were banned from those subs previously for refusing to play nice, and who now enjoy lording their power over others in the same way that they choose to view how others previously treated them, i.e. unfairly, capriciously, etc.
Maybe it’s because there’s less comments, but it’s felt needlessly hostile. Even a small disagreement leads to this weird ‘well you’re obviously a fucking idiot that has nothing worthwhile to say’. I didn’t have that impression when I joined post API BS, but now that I’ve noticed it it’s hard to ignore. A lot of people just reading what they want to read, and drawing conclusions that don’t relate to the immediate action.
The self-righteous rage and indignation is completely off the charts here, I totally agree.
Whenever a genuinely obnoxious post is upvoted multiple times, I always wonder how many of those upvotes are from the pathetic author’s alts, and how many are from people who are just fellow assholes.
That’s unfortunate, because it’s the opposite of my experience. Maybe I just don’t care, and/or I’ve gotten better at spotting the warning signs of trivial bullshit and then ignoring it.
The trolls feel like insecure outsiders who haven’t matured enough to “get” Lemmy. It’s like they know they aren’t taken seriously, and want the imaginary clout they had on Reddit.
I get that, and I do my best not to feed the trolls, but it feels like they’ve been growing since I first joined. But just because I ignore it doesn’t mean I don’t notice it.
I’ve seen more sealioning than simple trolling. Sometimes, I can’t resist replying, because I’m not sure if they’re genuinely seeing things differently, or just because their games annoy me.
How are you not proving his point? The very first thing I said was “that’s unfortunate”, because I empathize. I also used the word “maybe” because I’m not omniscient and could very well be wrong. Describing my own experience is not “bragging” or “hostile”, and since it’s related to the topic at hand, certainly isn’t arbitrary.
Unlike you, I didn’t lead off with a paragraph of assumptions.
I’m not even touching that ridiculous “group dynamics” bullshit, or the personal insults. They speak for themselves quite well. Have you ever heard of giving someone the benefit of the doubt?
Don’t waste too much effort on your inevitable reply. I won’t be reading it.
I'm really starting to hate it, but really don't want to go back to Reddit. Every post about Israel and capitalism makes me want to quit. I wish there was a better alternative.
i've been feeling the same way the last couple weeks. i like lemmy but there's nothing to see here if you don't want to talk about politics or linux, and it exhibits many of the same things i dislike about other social media platforms as well.
its also making me realize that maybe i don't want "reddit when it didn't suck so bad" but rather what would really bring me the happiness i'm seeking in reddit replacements is likely something entirely unrelated to social media.
I'm only here because of an unjust reddit ban, and I'm very sad to say that I still would prefer reddit to this. The shear scale of reddit means there was always something interesting me through the far more varied and active communities available there. Lemmy is great and all, but I feel way less engaged with anything going on
I was active, and even a recognized name on some subs where I was particularly active, but here, those same communities are either woefully underpopulated and inactive, or just straight up don't exist. When I need to ask questions or get a wide variety of opinions, or even share a story, I knew reddit had enough activity for me to get at least some traffic. Here, I haven't even made a post
Sorry, Lemmy, but we're only together because reddit left. You're my rebound
You should make a post, even if you don't think it's an amazing post. If you want to see more activity than get involved.
I imagine reddit was this small and niche at one point in time and it only grew because people posted whatever they liked instead of waiting for someone else to do it.
yeah reddit is just simply too big to failed and with how confusing using lemmy for non tech savy, it makes people feel reluctant to switch
Also here cause of an unjust ban (and because of the 3rd party app fiasco). I reported too many blatant advertisements as spam and got kicked out due to "report abuse". But anyway, this is why I split my time between Lemmy and Imgur now. Imgur is no better than reddit (at least when it comes to 3rd party apps), but at least it helps fill a void.
same, but got a new account on reddit that didn't get banned (after first rediculous ban I couldn't make new accounts without being autobanned) again so I spend more time there now. we shat on reddit a lot at the start but at least we can have actual discussions there that aren't just calling each other fascists and tankies
How long did you wait until getting a new account? After my ban, I was getting my new accounts autobanned within minutes
I had the same problem and gave up. Then a few months later I built a new PC, and thought I'd give it a go. worked fine and has ever since. I guess they fingerprint your browser maybe, you might be able to try uninstalling and re-installing browser? All just to participate in some hobby subs!
I'll bite, I miss the sysadmin and msp communities. I didn't post much ever and won't ever, but I learned a lot there over years. I'm not getting that here, and it's pretty much why I was on reddit.
As a sysadmin, I handle windows, cloud, Linux, networks, BSD, and more daily. But the "Linux desktop is best" crew are more cult than community & my personal desktop is Linux, which I like, but it's not the answer for my parents, my partner or most of my friends or clients.
I gloss over American politics since I'm not American.
I don't hate cars. But I'm an advocate for walkable cities. I love cars in fact. I would quit my job if I could earn enough just restoring cars slowly all day.
But I'm still here. So that's also a statement.
I think "FuckCars" is meant to be "FuckCarDependence" but that's not as catchy. People in those communities are usually pretty open about the fact that cars have their purposes and aren't evil on their own.
Yeah, I am on team "Fuck Car Dependance" because I hate everything about em - driving, the ecological impact of cars and the society wide inequalities created and reinforces by designing space around them.
But I would be virtually unhirable in my field if I didn't drive... And there is zero way to fix that even if we managed to dismantle the system of strodes, massive parking lots, low density suburbs, inadequate public transit etc...
I know, it's really starting to get to be abit much. I get weird looks for liking Ubuntu, for example.
I've been in MSP for 15 years now and honestly it's so love hate. The variety and change is awesome but the cowboyism keeps me up at night in sweats.
I'd never be able to learn so much anywhere else, but because it's msp I've got no proof I know it (no training or non expired certs).
I also wish there was more enterprise focused IT community.
The self host is not a replacement for homelab or sysadm.
I can't even get good information security discussions @infosec.pub. I was hoping there'd be some security ninjas running around. Just a news bot.
I even think about mentioning enterprise Microsoft products, get evil capitalism lectured. I can't personally change the business world's IT paradigm. Business world...more lecture coming
Its like floating on an inner tube down a slow meandering creek instead of holding on for dear life to a shitty wooden raft going down Niagara Falls forever.
Its a lot easier to get off and stretch my legs when I need to
Not sure where you're from, but I'm from Australia and so my experience in the 8 times I've been in Japan and 6 times in Taiwan, you don't need a car. A car can be pleasure. You can use a car, but to move millions of people a day, really good public transport is needed. Being able to walk to a interconnected grid of transport, that can link buses, trains and underground rail allows for better night life, better work balance with being able to study or watch entertainment in transit, and everything is open and accessible. Getting back to Australia with hundreds of in-build multi storey mixed commercial residential complexes but primarily cars to travel makes no sense. We have a housing crisis but no infrastructure to support the density needed where the people work and live. But a culture who remembers 30 years ago when the population density was lower, labour was more common at warehouses not as much knowledge work and were more disperse over space, everyone had backyards with hills hoists, and two car garage and a shed. Those days are gone but nobody wants the infrastructure noise or density, but it's too late. We have all that but without transport options.
Our trains are so bad that they need to be on 15 minute at rush hour intervals because schedules are hard and they'd crash otherwise. Japan has them coming every 2-3 minutes. Imagine going to the station not knowing the time table because at most it's 3 minutes to wait after work for the next one, if it's too packed, wait 2 more.
Your mileage my vary where you are, but in 10 years I can't see this population growth and density growth being solved with cars.
Yeah, i walked into this on my own
I meant walkable cities sound like an insult for fat people, your are overthinking this
Personally, i am for the concept especially since i don't plan to ever drive a car for personal reasons
I lived in Japan for a year. Travelled and set up a new vase of operations every 2 months or so... and I rode a car exactly 4 times over the full year. Once was in a single day there and back again during a company trip. Once was in a cop car when I got so very lost on my way to my destination in the boonies that the bus driver I was trying to talk to waved over the police who decided to just give me a lift... And once was a taxi I took because I just decided I was too tired to huff my 60 lbs worth of possessions to board a boat in Tokyo Bay.
It was brilliant. Now I am back in Canada and it's basically just Australia but cold.