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GM Reverses All-In EV Strategy to Bring Back Plug-In Hybrids

https://www.thedrive.com/news/gm-reverses-all-in-ev-strategy-to-bring-back-plug-in-hybrids

The EV craze is butting up against limited demand, and it's forcing General Motors to bring back hybrids in an almost total about-face.

GM Reverses All-In EV Strategy to Bring Back Plug-In Hybrids::The EV craze is butting up against limited demand, and it's forcing General Motors to bring back hybrids in an almost total about-face.

45 comments

deegeese

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How long until they reverse their all-in-house infotainment strategy and go back to CarPlay and Android Auto?

SeaJ

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When they can make money off Android Auto or CarPlay, they will switch back.

cbarrick

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How do they make money off in-house infotainment?

It seems like better infotainment would lead to more sales...

Is theirs better? I doubt it.

kalleboo

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Selling their own music and maps subscriptions, ads, selling location data. Enshittification.

GM also views the new infotainment system as a way to generate more revenue from subscription services, including music streaming, audiobooks and vehicle maintenance. GM’s chief executive Mary Barra has set a target of $20 billion USD (about $27 billion CAD) to $25 billion (roughly $33 billion CAD) in annual revenue from subscriptions by 2030

SeaJ

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They sell your data. They could also inject ads into shit and force you to pay to remove them.

Better infotainment will lead to higher customer satisfaction in the long run. But many corporations are notoriously short sighted and grab for the quick and easy profits. Sure, you might be annoyed that they paywalled a feature that used to be free but you are unlikely to sell your car because of it. They already have your money from you buying the car so any extra money coming from you is icing in the cake.

eskimofry

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No fees to Apple & Google is a massive cost struck out of their balance sheets, yes? Frees up a lot of money.

VampyreOfNazareth

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Permanently Deleted

TheIllustrativeMan

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Is Android Automotive really an "in-house" strategy?

Empricorn

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No. That's why consumers want them to "go back" to it and Apple Car Play.

hddsx

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IIRC Android auto and Android automotive are two different things

TheIllustrativeMan

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UltiFi, the software on all GM EVs, is Android Automotive with an icon pack. All of the services are Google's (Maps, assistant, app store, etc). All GM does is change some graphics. Nothing about it is in-house.

reddig33

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It’s notable that their smallest EV (Bolt) is their best selling EV, yet GM keeps focusing on building and pushing bigger electric models.

doctordevice

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I'm about 3 weeks into my Bolt EUV ownership. Literally never considered any of their other EVs based on price alone. Really happy with my Bolt EUV so far, and really glad I snagged one before they stopped making them. For all their talk of limited demand, there was a lot of competition in my area to get one.

pineapplelover

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THEY STOPPED MAKING THEM???

doctordevice

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Officially they're on hiatus. They originally said they were retiring the line, but then changed their tune and stated that the Bolt line will return after they can implement their new EV battery tech in them. I believe the statements have been imprecise about when that will be, but potentially sometime in 2025 (meaning the 2026 model). That's assuming no delays or changes to the plan.

If you want a new Bolt without waiting for the revived line, I'd think about acting soon. They're moving really quickly in my area. I'm really happy with the EUV so far, but I'm still only at like 250 miles. I didn't go for the Premier since I don't care about adaptive cruise control or their "Super Cruise" self driving thing.

phoneymouse

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It’s nice that the option exists, but why does it need to look like that? Between that and the BMW i3, why do EVs need to look like a bean?

DanglingFury

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Americans buy crossovers, so they make ot look like a crossover. Small is efficient, so Americans get the beans

frezik

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Aerodynamics dictates shape. It's not just EVs. Stuff in that size range tends to have that bean shape, like the Mazda2, Smart4two, or Fiat 500.

Bye

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Because it had worse margins than other cars they could be selling. Heard an interview with their CEO about this exact thing. Other vehicles make them more money so they are focusing there.

SeaJ

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The problem is not the EVs. The problem is their shit infotainment systems that they force on people. But if they want to kill off their ICE vehicles and swap them with plug-in hybrids, that is fine. That will at least help people realize that they are never filling up their car with gas.

My guess is that they will be doing this at the expense of their EV line though and they will also shove their infotainment system into the PHEVs.

PrincessLeiasCat

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All I want is a volume knob and to get rid of the XL tablets on the console. Some of us can see the road fine but not as great up close. It’s honestly more of a safety risk to have some of the current setups.

But my car is 12 years old and still in good shape…fingers crossed.

flames5123

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With the Tesla Model 3, most things you need are on the steering wheel anyways. Volume, cruise, skip, follow distance, answer calls, etc. but there is a big infotainment system for everything else. I don’t mind it because I love the customization of where my buttons are rather than the crappy default of however the manufacturer sets up the buttons.

olympicyes

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Problem is Tesla is removing the turn signal and shifter stalks. The turn signal will be a button on the wheel, and shifter will be on the touch screen.

flames5123

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Yea, that’s not how the older Model 3 works. I wish they weren’t doing that. The blinker and shifter stalk are so easy.

BreadstickNinja

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My 2016 Volt was my favorite car I ever had. Man, I loved that thing. But couldn't buy it out after lease for anything close to residual and had to give it back.

I wouldn't be upset if Chevy revives the Volt.

ERPAdvocate

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After a lot of research I went with a gen 1 Volt and couldn't agree more, just enough battery to keep me from getting gas! The car was clearly designed with a lot of thought, and really sound engineering decisions all around, making ownership pain free.

CalcProgrammer1

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I love my 2014 Gen 1 Volt and would love to see the technology continue to improve. If they made a Gen 3 Volt with at least 100 miles all electric range and a heat pump system that didn't halve the battery when it's cold outside I would absolutely consider it over a pure EV for my next car.

kinther

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I got a Chevy Bolt 1LT (cheapest I could find with federal/state tax credits) and it's the lowest maintenance car I've ever owned. No oil changes - literally just rotate your tires every 7500 miles. Less than $4 per charge to 90% (about 200-260 miles depending on how much I use the climate control). Parallel parking is super easy. Infotainment kind of sucks, but Android Auto makes it way better.

I don't understand why they want to kill these cars other than they aren't making enough money.

ExfilBravo

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America needs to mandate charge stations at all currently operating gas stations before they will go all in on EVs. They have range anxiety in rural areas for a good reason.

Snapz

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It's not the EVs, it's the price

skozzii

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Hybrids are stupid , twice as much vehicle systems to break, but that's why the dealerships love them. Repairs keep them going.

Numberone

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I get this sentiment, but it'd go a long way for people who have the dreaded "range anxiety". If they want the expense of both systems, then go for it. I have a used Chevy Volt which is a PHEV, we got it a few years ago and didn't want to commit to full electric yet. It's my families only car and in our case it's been bullet proof. 95% of our driving is on electric with only family visits requiring gas. It's not a bad system for people who aren't convinced. Different now that it's becomming a culture war issue though.

ThePrivacyPolicy

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I guess if you have a crappy brand of hybrid that might be true. I'm 8 years into owning a Toyota hybrid and I've done nothing but once a year oil changes, one set of tires, and just did my first set of brake pads. I guess cabin air filters and other regular consumables too. There's actually added reliability in the fact that the engines have no belts or mechanical driven accessories, which are common failure points, because the mechanical engine isn't always running to drive those accessories. The electric controlled accessories are overall more reliable with less moving parts to fail. Being friends with a recently retired Toyota mechanic he said they didn't often see the hybrids for anything but routine stuff. I suppose there are exceptions to this, and there are certainly far shittier car brands than Toyota making hybrids too.

I_Has_A_Hat

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Want even more hate against hybrids? They're arguably worse than efficient combustion engines.

Catalytic converters are the thing that reduce ICE emissions, but they don't work well until they're heated up since they need to be at a higher temperature before the catalyst reaction can take place. This isn't usually much of a problem because it takes less than 30 seconds for them to get to that temperature with a regular ICE vehicle.

But what happens with hybrids, where the gas engine continues to shut on and off? Well the CC keeps cooling down and having to reheat. Depending on the usage, hybrid vehicles can wind up producing more emissions than non-hybrids if they keep switching between the gas and electric motors.

VampyreOfNazareth

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Permanently Deleted

giddy

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I love my phev. I can go months without filling up but can take off on a trip without range anxiety

deeferg

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Not familiar with these newer hybrids, is this a plug in scenario or closer to the older Toyota hybrids where the battery recharges through driving?

DanglingFury

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Plugin Hybrid Electric Vehicle (PHEV). You get a bit of range straight ev, usually like 30 miles, then it switches over to traditional hybrid with gas engine. It's the best of both worlds or the worst of both worlds depending on perspective.

Pepe who like them: You get an around town ev that is also a hybrid for roadtrips that can refill at gas stations and charge overnight on any old traditional wall plug. You save a pile of money on gas and can get a solid tax credit on the purchase.

Pepe who dislike them: You have to go to the gas station and you have to plug it in. You have maintenance of both powertrain systems which can be more expensive as it requires certified technicians to work with the higher voltage. Registration costs a ton. Their typically packed into traditional IC models (like an og jeep) making it pretty dense under the hood and the body is less efficient than a real high mpg IC car or straight EV.

I personally like them, but have been weary of them since we run our vehicles till the wheels fall off at 250,000 miles after 10 years and don't know what the extended maintenance looks like for them.

deeferg

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Thanks for the in depth response explaining the pros and cons. I actually do most of my car work myself, having done time in a Honda dealership, but also with my time in there I still remember us oil techs not being allowed to work on the hybrids oil changes for that exact reason. They'd have to go to a higher tech with the experience working with them. I don't think I would want to test my luck.

CalcProgrammer1

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Plug in hybrid usually refers to a car that has some amount of purely electric range, charges like an EV, but after depleting its battery falls back into conventional hybrid mode where the battery is maintained to some level of reserve power using a gas engine. The Chevy Volt is probably the best example. I drive a Volt and all my daily commute is purely electric unless it's super cold outside.

deeferg

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Thanks for the insight. I guess thats the P from PHEV, there's just so many acronyms now I'm losing track.

aeronmelon

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Not the first time GM backpedaled on EVs, unfortunately.

RememberTheApollo

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Yeah, the infrastructure isn’t there yet for EV. We need chargers everywhere, but they’re still a thing that needs to be searched for and possibly have to go out of your way for. And EV aren’t really great to have someplace like apartments where property owners aren’t going to install them.

So PHEV is better until the system catches up.

1984

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I don't think GM has a single good car though.

I did a lot of research about cars and GM is never on any lists of great cars.

bluemellophone

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The Chevy Volt PHEV was an absolutely fantastic car, I was very sad the day I sold it and even more sad when GM said they were discontinuing the line. Whoever brings a PHEV truck to the market with 100 miles of all-EV range, I’ll buy it day one.

KingThrillgore

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We should be doing plug in hybrids, they are cheaper and will reduce gas usage dramatically for 80% of drivers in cities.

AA5B

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And keep us sucking on fossil fuels for another couple decades? Direct to EVs may be a slower transition but we will transition much quicker.

Hybrids are good for the places EVs don’t work yet, as are hydrogen, and biofuel: we have all too many edge cases. However EVs are a solid win for most people where they have chargers, and it’s going quickly