Euler diagram of the terminology of the British Isles
Apologies. This might not be the perfect community for the post.
Apologies. This might not be the perfect community for the post.
They had a signpost in the Atlantic saying “Irish Isles” for weeks before we noticed.
Because it is. You never graduated and you have a test right now that you didn't study for. You're also in your underwear.
OK, looking at this I can now understand why it may not all make immediate sense to someone who didn't grow up here.
And in the US, there’s definitely a subset that believes England means Great Britain or even the United Kingdom.
Same folks that referred to the entire USSR as Russia, probs.
Using any country's capital as shorthand for its current government is a common form of metonymy to be fair!
And there are plenty of people in russia who think everything that was ever USSR should be russia.
It's basically the same argument Argentina has about the Falkland Islands. When Argentina was part of the Spanish empire the Falkland Islands were part of the empire, not that the Spanish did anything with the islands. But at no time in history has Argentina existed as an independent country and has had ownership of the islands.
This chart: "England, Scotland and Wales are in Great Britain"
Wight, the Scillies, Anglesey, Sheppy, Anglesey, the Shetlands, the Orkneys, the Hebrides, and thousands more: "Are we a joke to you?"
I’m trying to remember though, aren’t the Jersey, Guernsey, and Man somehow closer to Scotland or Wales status than say Sheppey or the Orkneys?
Yeah, the channel islands and the Isle of Man have more autonomy. Officially they are "self-governing British Crown Dependencies".
Jersey and Guernsey have different VAT rates for instance. For years, play.com was based in Jersey solely so they wouldn't have to pay VAT on most of the cheaper stuff they sold to the mainland.
Aren't those all part of one of the other three? The orkneys and Hebrides are part of Scotland.
That's my point: they're all part of England/Scotland/Wales, but they aren't part of Great Britain.
None of those are in Great Britain, because they are islands and therefore not part of the island of Great Britain.
But they are all part of England, Scotland or Wales which, according to the diagram, are within Great Britain...
British Isles is not the term the Irish use. Atlantic Archipelago or just the isles is proffered.
Britannia and Hibernia. Brittano-Hibernian Islands? Atlantic archipelago seems vague as an outsider from neither Britain or Ireland.
pretty much! The commonwealth is what the British empire became, most former British colonies are members, and King Charles is its head, though most member states are republics now, and don't have him as their king. It's a mostly-cerrmonial political group that occasionally does things like promote trade or diplomacy
Yup, every British colony as of 1945 joined the commonwealth except Myanmar, and one called Aden that is now part of Yemen
I did not wake up this morning expecting to read someone claiming that Canada is an island.
For a moment, I thought, this comment was in response to the Europe map someone else posted. There the answer would have been easy, of course: Eurovision. 🙃
It's not an actual term that is used though. "Great Britain" and "Ireland" are the names of the islands, "the United Kingdom" and "(the Republic of) Ireland" are the names of the sovereign states, "the British Isles" is (one) name for all the bits of land. "British Islands" is not an official term or one that anyone uses.
The Scots wouldn't agree with this. I've spent a lot of time there.
The Shetlands, Orkneys, Harris and the rest of the Hebrides aren't even mentioned. Haha
Well, Scots would often say "we're not British but we are Scottish" since British usually means "from the UK" but I don't think any of them would deny that most of Scotland is in Great Britain.
Those are groups of northern islands, so they were excluded. Unlike Northern Ireland, which isn't an island so it was included.
???
A quiet little tax haven full of polite stuffy old people. I'm thinking of visiting the new one, I assume it's much the same?
As a Englishman, I can't have you talking down on the Scots. They're the only ones left which are still decent
The words that ultimately gave us “Britain” have been in use for about 2,000 years, give or take a century or two. Politically and culturally a tremendous lot has happened in the meantime. Which is probably why we’re left with this almost indecipherable mine field.
Tell me about it. Immigrants? From Britain? Taking over (culturally) a foreign land. You couldn’t make it up. I once witnessed some drunk Bretons speaking to some drunk Welsh in their respective languages… and “kind of” understanding each other.
Now if someone can tell me what exactly "Britain" is? People say it all the time, like this is the largest statue of a vulva in Britain. Just shorthand for Great Britain, or is it something else?
Just that - shorthand for Great Britain. Easier to use when you don't think it's so great, like if you live in the Republic of Ireland!
It's like saying America to mean the United States. Technically America includes Canada and excludes Hawaii. But when people say America they actually mean US + Alaska and Hawaii but not Canada.
This is a good way to distinguish the terms. I wonder if there is a good colour scheme to also indicate the nation states as district from the landmasses
"British and Irish Isles" is the most common descriptor for the whole archipelago I see, and it seems a fair one even if it's a bit long. It'd be nice if we could all agree on something catchier but that seems unlikely, all things considered
Celtic would be better. Gaelic literally means coming from the Gaels, aka the Irish. Welsh and Cornish are Brythonic language speakers, not Goidelic/Gaelic, but they are all Celtic languages. The Angles, Saxons, Frisians and Jutes invaded Celtic Britain starting in the 400s.
Speaking of! Shouldn't Australia be in that chart too? And I'd like to see the "commonwealth" in the diagram too. It's all good complicated!
I'm English and I don't either. It's a pretty obvious hangover of British imperial pretensions.
Why the hell is it so complicated
I though it was complicated here in Australia where our states/territories (idk the differencd) all can have some very different rules and stuff at least we have mostly clear borders
Why the hell is it so complicated
One hell of a complex and crazy history in a very tiny space over the last two thousand years.
Hell, you could just cleave off the last thousand as a reference and be done with that. Although that does leave out some juicy origin stories.
Can someone do one for terminology? Is calling people British mainly socially acceptable? I imagine the exception is the Irish from Ireland, but those from northern Ireland may give that a pass?
I'd think calling Scot a Brit is like calling Peruvian an American. Technically true but kinda rude
Depends on their own views on the union. Don't go lumping people together as all having the same opinion now!
northern Ireland may give that a pass?
Never push a national identity onto someone from Northern Ireland. Because that's also a political Identity
In general British is a national identity. English/Scottish/Welsh would be a cultural identity.
You would call them what they say they are.
What's the bets ramble81 calls himself Scottish cos his great great great great great great great great great great great great granda once sniffed a Tunnock's Teacake? 😂
I'm not going to take a pop at them because it is entirely possible that they live in Scotland, are passionate about Scottish independence and has similarly committed friends and family. Likewise, I'm only speaking from personal experience as someone who is English, but has discussed stuff with Scottish friends on occassion.
They're just part of Scotland. Although the nearby Orkney Islands (also part of Scotland) have recently flirted with leaving the UK and becoming part of Norway.
Why Orkney and not Shetland (or does Shetland want to leave too)? I would've figured it'd be the one physically further away from Britain that would feel less affiliation.
Yeah, I know what you mean, it is a bit odd. I'm not sure why Orkney and not Shetland. Doubt it'll ever happen tbh!
They were mainly floating the idea in a bid to get more funding allocated from the Scottish government
