https://www.wafb.com/2024/01/27/woman-says-her-kia-has-been-stolen-3-times-even-after-security-upgrade/
This was the third time the woman said her Kia was stolen from outside her home since 2019.
MILWAUKEE (CNN) - A woman in Milwaukee says her Kia has been stolen three times, even after she installed a free security upgrade meant to prevent this crime from happening.
“This software update makes it so that even if they try to plug that USB port in, it’s not going to disable the ignition immobilizer,” Emily Falecki said. “It’s going to keep that intact and it is going to sound the factory alarm.”
Falecki said on Friday that part of this upgrade requires Kia owners to lock their cars with a key fob.
If you don’t use the key fob to lock your vehicle, the upgrade is useless.
So this is a software "fix" for a hardware problem. WTF Kia...
What does "locking with the key fob" mean? Do they mean actually turning a key in a door lock or pressing a button on the key fob?
They mean you have to press the button. If you lock with the door button or by using the keylock on the outside of a door, it doesn't work.
Thank you. Also, it's crazy that the locking behaves differently depending on what methods you use to lock
I found that most cars with a button on the outside of the door to lock behave this way. Pushing that button only locks the doors. You have to press the button on the fob to actually arm the car.
I don't see this as Kia's fault at all. These cars were bare basement bottom of the line cars. They included very limited security systems. It is not a responsibility of the manufacturer to provide any level of security or to help you when your shit is stolen.
It is their responsibility to not make a security system so bad that teens with a USB drive can steal the car.
No, it isnt. That would just drive up the cost and make it even more unaffordable. They made important cars that cater to a specific demographic, and it was a complete non-issue before it became a TikTok trend.
The thing is, the exact same models sold in Canada have immobilizers installed in them as standard. And it costs just a couple of bucks per car for them to do that. I guess your point is kinda valid in the sense that because they weren’t required by law to do it in the US, they didn’t. While they didn’t break any laws, it’s still a dumb thing to do to penny pinch. All their 2023 models and up now have immobilizers on them with prices still within their class range, so it’s not like they couldn’t do it.
Also, they aren’t exactly bottom of the barrel anymore nowadays and their cars are sold at a premium.
You can buy an aftermarket immobilizer for $30 on amazon. A car manufacturer can probably get them for cheaper in bulk.
Helen, why were immobilizers standard in just about every other manufacturer's vehicles? Some things are not the burden of the consumer - you should not need to be an expert in your doctors provided care or in the additives in your toothpaste. Do you know why? because even if you arrogantly thought you had a grasp on it, you'd likely be doing a shit job, because you're not a doctor or a chemical engineer. The government should have regulated this as a standard need, but short of that, this is was much of a standard as you can have (especially in Europe).
It's a great example though of how enough companies to make an impact WILL NOT do the right thing unless it is mandated. Hyundai was the test balloon and if they got away with it, others would have followed. Only good news arid this is that the PR shit show Hyundai bought for themselves will scare off other manufacturer's from shedding those $1.24 worth of parts from their BOM for another few years at least.
why were immobilizers standard in just about every other manufacturer's vehicles?
They aren't. They're offered in many cars to prevent theft. 🤯
Some things are not the burden of the consumer
Lots of things are not anyone's burden. Like immobilizers. I mean maybe one day UNICEF will enter the immobilization industry and we can all have them for free. Until then, it costs someone money. If the consumer wants to pay for it, they can choose 1 of hundreds of other vehicles. If they don't, that is their choice also. It's not the manufacturer's burden.
you should not need to be an expert in your doctors provided care or in the additives in your toothpaste.
And you don't have to be. That's why there are doctors and dentists. You do still maintain a responsibility of educating yourself on some basic level and maintaining your personal health. Not really sure what your point was there.
Immobilisers have been mandatory in all new cars sold in Germany since 1 January 1998, in the United Kingdom since 1 October 1998, in Finland since 1998, in Australia since 2001 and in Canada since 2007.
Unfortunately in the good old US of A that is somehow not the case, but it remains a fact that it is a bare minimum requirement for vehicle security. You will not purchase a vehicle in America that is not a Kia that does not have an immobilizer.
That's great. I'm happy for those countries. What does that have to do with this conversation?
The fact that they are, factually, standard on every other manufacturer's vehicles, like you want to insist they aren't. You're clearly refusing to understand the words being communicated to you so, good luck in life I guess, this conversation is done.
You can buy an add-on immobilizer on Amazon or eBay for $20. The cost to a car company to build this into the computer in the factory should be under $10. Virtually every other car company has used them by default in everything since the mid 1990s.
It's probably garbage. OEMs aren't installing garbage. That would make the situation 10x worse.
My dad drives a base model Kia - no automatic locks, so no keyfob. Kia's "fix" was to send him "The Club" with instructions to use it to lock the driving wheel every time he parks.
When he told me the story it was structured like a joke, with the punchline being "guess what their solution is?" before pulling The Club from behind his back and handing it to me. He couldn't stop laughing.
This literally unlocked a core memory of my parents locking the steering wheel of the family Plymouth Voyager that no one would ever steal. Amazing. Didn't realize "the club" was still around.
Same! I'm not even sure if it's even a brand-name Club, so I guess take that as you may
The club is not very good at what it does.
Cars need immobilizers, like every other first world country has figured out and regulated.
Well, technically The Club is fine, The Steering Wheel, not so much but it undermines the whole design.
I feel bad for Kia. Their new design actually stands out but I could never buy a Kia car again in a long time after this fuck up
Dont feel bad for them. This is a direct, purposeful choice they made to save a few dollars per car in the US because we are one of the few countries that doesnt require an immobilizer by law. They actually had to change their global design to specifically make their cars much, much more susceptible to theft, and the execs that made the decision did it knowingly and willingly to juice the share price.
None of those execs that have caused tens of thousands of Kia/Hyundai owners intense issues have faced any justice at all. From their perspective, everything worked out great. Until there is some actual, real imapct on the people that made this incredibly damaging and stupid choice, its clear Kia/Hyundai will just do it again given the chance.
When they fire the people responsible and issue a US wide recall that installs the hardware chips for all the effected models, then they can have some mercy. Until then, fuck them because they will fuck you.
They actually had to change their global design to specifically make their cars much, much more susceptible to theft, and the execs that made the decision did it knowingly and willingly to juice the share price.
Certainly global but its even worse. Canada requires immobilizers which Kia/Hyundai put in at the factory. Kia/Hyundai made the choice to not even have unified North American model so they could cut costs.
Kia/Hyundai made the choice to not even have unified North American model so they could cut costs.
This is one of those outcomes that the people who crap on about the invisible hand of the market never want to admit is a direct result of the outright hostility to regulation in so many sections of the USA.
I immediately went and bought a Kia because of this fuck up. I live in a rural area and hardly ever visit any kind of heavy suburban areas where this kind of issue is prevalent. If I do I find a good parking garage to use.
Because of all the stuff going on with KIA I was able to pick up a 2016 Kia Sorento EX with all the bells and whistles for 6k Uber KBB. It is hands down the nicest car I've ever owned.
You could fix this problem pretty easily by just adding a hidden switch somewhere powering the ignition. Security through obscurity. Wouldn't work for Kia but it'd work for you.
I traded in my Kia for a Subaru at the beginning of this year. It felt like a huge block of anxiety was lifted off my shoulders as I no longer worry of coming out to an empty parking space every morning. I agree, Hyundai/Kia make beautiful looking cars nowadays, but I’m probably never buying one again.
The problem is that the lock does not deserve that name, and the added security from KIA is not much better.
A car door lock is trivial to bypass by any one of like four methods. What stops the car being stolen is the immobilizer chip. The immobilizer that Kia declined to install in their cars.
After 3 times she should just buy a Honda instead, those at least come with baseline security features.
A lot of these Kia/Hyundai articles deceptively/vaguely refer to a "security upgrade" which sounds official and IMO will make most think, "oh, so like a software update or kill switch type thing installed in the structure of the car's built in security systems"
And in reality, they just sent a cheap version of "the club", and only to some people. And of course there are videos online that show how the club actually makes it easier for a thief without the proper tools to use it as a tool to HELP steal your car.
If there were any justice against abusive corporations, the class action suite would be major here.
No, there really was a "recall" where they notified drivers to bring cars to the dealership for some software patch to address the issue.
My mom did it, and it broke her remote start function. So it did change something regarding starting, but apparently, it didn't really fix the original problem.
I'm a Hyundai owner, can say that I didn't receive anything, when into dealership for all regular service early January, and I'm in the affected class. Nothing happened, no conversation about security - there was one about the engine catching fire and a notice that were supposed to park our cars outside until it can be inspected.
I got a KIA in 2009 with windows that roll up with a crank. It was super cheap, but it ran like a dream. When I broke up with my ex in 2014, I let her keep it and I switched to a Ford, because poor/cheap.
Now surprised my Ford is still ticking. Where the KIA, my ex had it stolen and never found it.
It's still running too. I also have a 2009 (Spectra) and I think it might outlast my 2016 Optima. Sucks because for a while there, they made really great reliable cars. Now who even knows. Not all their cars suck but mine has an unlimited warranty now because of a class action and how shitty the engine in this car is so that's not very promising.
That "security upgrade" - wasn't that featured by the Lockpicking Lawyer? IIRC he took only seconds to unlock it.
The first thing they did was offer free steering wheel locks. Yes, I believe LPL got his hands on one and showed how cheaply made and easily bypassed it is. Since then, they've also offered a reinforced ignition cylinder and a software update that is supposed to not allow the car to start without the key in the ignition. I don't know why they haven't just retro-fitted the cars with an immobilizer circuit, the lack of which is what started this whole thing. The software update obviously isn't doing the same job.
What is the resale value of a car that most people would not touch with a ten foot pole?
Not great. Mine is in good shape (just had its first repair, ignition coils), and its worth is $4k on Kelly blue book.
I would love to pitch it, just for the driving experience (only car I've ever had that feels unsafe), but all the depreciation that can happen already has. It would be stupid to sell it now, I'd be throwing away thousands.
So are you going to sell it when the price falls even more? Or wait until it becomes vintage?
I've essentially already paid depreciation, so I'm going to drive it until the wheels fall off and sell it for scrap.
Unfortunately, it is a soul, so it is absolutely not going to become vintage lol.
If it's not an econobox, then you'll still get blue book for it anyway, despite being a Kia. Genesis Coupes are still going for about for $15K, for example.
I was wondering how they stole it twice after it was changed to immobilise when locked with the key fob.
TL;DR - The owner was an idiot that didn't immobilise the car by locking it with the key fob.
The owner never locked the car. You can't blame the company for that.
It's perfectly valid for an unlocked car to not have it's immobilizer switch on. The cars unlocked, it fair to assume the key holder wanted it to be accessible.
The alternative is... The car auto locks itself? What if you leave your key inside?
No. It's not on the company to EVER lock the car because consequences can be deadly.
I had a car that would auto lock the doors.
It was also a keyless start, so the fob may be built totally differently.
That being said, if your keys were detected, it would prevent the auto lock.
It's a less secure default, but at the same time people would be pissed if they had to call a lock smith all the time.
Yeah and it's even good for the environment because other people got to use it when she wasn't. saving them from buying a whole new car that would have polluted the environment even more. Also those 3 people won't be traveling much now that they are in jail.
Excellent observations! Indeed, if the engine never stopped, then we wouldn't spend time warming up the engine with a cold catalytic converter. But jail is indeed great at removing cars from the road.
No immobiliser.
So you can hotwire it like a vintage car.
Most cars are much more difficult to start.
Most countries made immobilisers mandatory in the 90s, the US doesn't like regulations that corporations have to follow.
So you can hotwire it like a vintage car.
Its almost like a replaceable sheer pin could be installed so when they break the steering lock, it brakes the steering post into two pieces that require special tools to replace and would waste more time than steeling and repairing it would be worth.
$4k for a sheer pin that cost $5 and 1/2 labor which is about $50-$60 USD for a total of $65.00 where did you get $4k from?
Half an hour labor for replacing a steering column?
Yeah I'm gonna need you to point me towards your mechanic, because I've got a rear main seal that needs replacing, and according to those numbers I should be able to get my transmission dropped down for about a buck fifty.
Unless I'm severely misunderstanding what you're talking about.
I'm really not being dramatic, I want to know how you expect to pull and replace this pin in half an hour if it's a part of the steering column assembly. Steering column R&R is minimum 3 hours almost no matter what car it's on, source being I literally do this for a living every day.
Also it's called a shear pin, not a "sheer" pin. I do know what they are, and I know how to spell it too. Sure, the pin is five bucks. How do you expect to access it? That's where your cost and labor comes in. If the column needs to come out - which it usually does, in 99% of all cases where it's being worked on - whoever told you they can do it in a half hour told you a big fat stankin' lie right to your face.
Joy ride and running drugs are common reasons to steal any old car. Whoever has been stealing it clearly isn't doing so to keep it since the same car keeps getting stolen again.
Whoever has been stealing it clearly isn’t doing so to keep it since the same car keeps getting stolen again.
It seems like it has to do more with her neighborhood than the model itself.
Old and boring story to share
I bought my ex a brand new 2008 Kia Spectra. It had a decent 2.2 liter DOHC and was very good in the snow.
However, it had an annoying alarm that would go off seemingly if a fly landed on it but if someone bumped into it, it would work when it felt like it.
The last straw: We had just settled down on a crowded beach and it went off. By the time I got to the car
It was surrounded by people arguing whether to smash a window or force open the hood all in a matter of 1-2 minutes
The beach entranceway was a long ass stair case btw. These people disbursed as I apologized to them all individually.
This beach is in a State camp ground so all these people are there to get away from noise and traffic.
That was the day we pulled the fuse.
“ This software update makes it so that even if they try to plug that USB port in, it’s not going to disable the ignition immobilizer,” Emily Falecki said. “It’s going to keep that intact and it is going to sound the factory alarm.”
**Falecki said on Friday that part of this upgrade requires Kia owners to lock their cars with a key fob.
If you don’t use the key fob to lock your vehicle, the upgrade is useless.
“At this point, I don’t want to invest in Kia or Hyundai at the moment, like, I definitely am looking for a new car,” Nguyen said.”
So …she’s just refusing to use the fob? Like how many cars work?
Didnt they pushed for defounding the police? https://www.wuwm.com/2021-06-02/where-does-defunding-the-police-stand-in-milwaukee
We get what we voted for.
It's actually an interesting facet of the law, that you can't booby trap your own property.
Anyone who owns a Kia or Hyundai without a pushbutton start is at risk. They need to know this and get new cars.
New cars are huge expenses, not everyone is able to sell theirs for a discount and get a different one.
The company should be responsible for fixing them properly.
Yeah bro let me just
get a new car during a time of rising car prices and cost-of-living expenses
while also
not being able to sell my car for a good price for both economic and moral reasons. No one wants to buy an easily-stealable car, and no one should SELL an easily-stealable car.
You're speaking from a place of privilege. Not everyone can fork over $30k+ for a new car at the drop of a hat.
It would be cheaper in most cases to just install a push-button start in your car than to buy a whole new car. You can easily find the kits online, and any place that can install a car alarm can install them if you don't want to do it yourself.