https://www.vice.com/en/article/epv7p7/trump-national-guard-texas-border-dispute-federal-government-standoff
Sorry, were you expecting the former president to tell everyone to chill out?
This one's even better because he's calling for state governors to support a treasonous one. What saddens me is that if this does break out into full blown civil war, a lot of national guardsmen are going to be in the area of operations. Using people as human shields for his political agenda yet again.
The idealist in me wants to believe that the national guardsmen would be unwilling to kill their fellow Americans because a tangerine and governer hot wheels said so
Well, even if all of them went off the reservation, there's only 1500 of them. They'll never disobey a direct order from the Commander in Chief but if they did, they wouldn't pose too big of a threat.
This fucker literally encouraging states to fight the federal government… alternatively known as engaging in civil war.
Nah, he's just asking them to be "fine people" like those literal Nazis in Charlottesville, VA. Just a peaceful protest, with tiki torches and murder.
Call me crazy but after attempting to kill congressmen and the vice president and stealing our nuclear secrets and selling them to the top bidder..........Id say with him currently attempting to start a civil war, maybe this dude should be in jail.
Ironic that threatening a former US president is a felony but Trump can call for civil war which is far worse.
Ok, if that's what you want, You ARE CRAZY!! And I absolutely agree that this twice impeached, convicted rapist and ongoing defamer is trying to start a civil war, and should be locked up. Last month would not have been too soon.
Given how much of a hard time as he has with pretty minor inconveniences, I think it’s safe to say he has no fucking clue what the real outcomes are that he’s trying to encourage.
I’m old enough to have family and family-of-friends who were personally around in WW2 and the occupation right after. Long story short, war’s not fun for anyone involved. If you don’t like having people say things about you in the newspapers, having people shooting at you or losing your home or not having anything to eat is going to be a real drag.
War must be a lot easier when you know that you’re not going to be on the frontline, or something idk I’m not a general
Yeah. I think part of his thinking is that the suffering will happen to other people, and he'll be safely insulated, far away. I won't say he's crazy for thinking that. That said:
Not to mention he’s protected by the Sevret Service.
I doubt very much that they’ve all gone full traitor. All it takes is one guy whose kept some tiger balm on his lip and kept his mouth shut to put a few rounds in his head.
Or more likely, to arrange for not-traitors to scoop him on the way to some rally.
Florida’s National Guard is target practice for the US military. They’d be on Trump’s doorstep in hours.
Trumps outcome? He gets to sit on a gold toilet eating popcorn while watching his supporters commit felonies and ruin their lives. You know like jan 6.
Trump and his lackeys would never put themselves in actual danger, that’s what the poors are for
Trump leading another insurrection, but this time against the judicial branch instead of the legislative branch???
SHOCKED fucking PIKACHU fucking FACE.
Technically treason would require working with a foreign country or head of state. Things like selling state secrets to another government. While I don’t doubt that he’s a Russian agent, (we all agree Putin has some big dirt on him, right?) simply inciting a civil war would probably be considered an insurrection or coup, instead of treason.
18 U.S. Code § 2381 - Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
treason is more about declarations of war, a foreign party may be involved but it's not required.
No no no! He means send the national guard to tour a government building, take selfies, and leave in an orderly manner. You've got the wrong idea. You must be Antifa.
He's the old man with plenty of violent followers who hang on his every word. He's not expecting any actual National Guard troops from other states to be mobilized. This is a call for the same people who invaded the Capitol to assemble in Texas and dare federal forces to try and move them.
Pathetic, to abuse national guardsmen like this. Its a big disruption to their family and their employers to send them on an idiotic,grandstanding boondoggle like this.
Do they realize President Biden can nationalize the national guard at the border and tell them to go home if he so chooses?
Any guardsmen that would actually go to TX and support TX would be unlikely to follow the stand down order. I’m kind of curious how many would just follow orders going both directions.
It's probably not as clear-cut as your making it out to be. These would be actually armed forces personnel, subject to all of the rules, regulations, chain of command, disciplinary consequences, etc. that come with that.
Yes, they could possibly make an argument that they have a duty to disobey illegal orders, but not a totally clear-cut, black-and-white one, they'd likely still be looking at arrest, courts-martial, etc. if they straight-up refuse to deploy to Texas. They're people with lives, family, regular jobs, etc. that would very likely have to get put on hold while everything gets sorted out and they may not necessarily come out on top. Depending on the exact context, it's probably going to be hard to make an argument that simply going to Texas would be an illegal order.
So if it happens, you can probably expect damn-near every guardsman from those states to go to Texas if they're ordered to.
What they're ordered to do once they're there is probably where they'd have a stronger case, but even still they'd have to carefully thread that needle if they want to avoid prison, dishonorable discharge, etc. There's a lot they could be ordered to do that would be very objectionable but not quite meet the legal bar of being an illegal order that they'd be obligated to disobey.
They can't exactly say no to going to TX, can they? It's not going to be all soldiers who support the idea.
They can't say no to the general order to deploy. But the second they're nationalized they have cover to follow the federal orders and ignore illegal orders from the governor.
It's not easy to drag 19000 armed and trained men in front of a court where they might face the death penalty.
They'd be losing access to the most critical thing that makes them effective: the US military's logistics and chain of command. Without that they really are just some dudes with guns and a few fancy toys they won't be able to keep operational or replace. And they could never leave the state.
So as long as they aren't causing too much trouble ... just wait them out, then make an example of them in a military court.
There is no chance the officers refuse a direct order from the president.
Do you really think the soldiers want to sweat their asses off in the desert all day stringing razor wire?
Are they going to risk jail and losing their benefits?
There must be a lot of non-Americans commenting here. I've been seeing lots of questions like "what if they don't stand down?" There's no way that's happening because there's very little economic safety net in the US.
If they lose their benefits and pension, these soldiers' families are destitute. Texas doesn't have any money to pay for that. Imagine the Guard as Texas's older brother. But Joe Biden is Mom about to ground everyone in sight. Why would you risk losing the car keys on Friday night?
The problem with political decisions like that is you're really hoping the National Guard complies with the President when the governor demands they ignore the President.
That's not a gut check anyone wants to try without going through everything else first.
They'll comply instantly as soon as you shut down their borders. It took 48 hours of the southern border being closed before gw bush opened it back up.
Commerce is everything.
The instant they become federalized they fall under the Army, for National Guardsmen, and the Air Force, for Air National Guardsmen. If they refuse a direct order from the president they will be charged with disobeying a direct order and will get at minimum an general OTH discharge and any rogue officers would probably face a general court martial and be looking at a significant amount of time in Leavenworth followed by a bad conduct or dishonorable discharge.
Well yeah, that's the way it's supposed to work. But in a situation where a significant portion refuse on the Governor's request they'll likely just be transferred to a state militia with a promise the state will cover their lost benefits. Any federal attempt to arrest them for desertion will meet the state police and militia guarding the guys.
In short it's a real quick way to actually kick off a civil war. That doesn't mean Biden can't do it. He just can't fuck it up if he does.
Well, maybe we could ask Bush to call upon all willing states to tell their national guard to take up finger painting. Or maybe Bill Clinton could ask all willing states to give trump a wedgie.
But that won’t happen, not because it’s silly, but because ex-presidents have no fucking authority to tell the states to do a damn thing.
Very diplomatic and cool headed. He unites everyone with such poised insight that no one is able to see without his knowledge.
/s
Bring it. These morons in mismatched and non-fitting tactical gear totally have a chance against some dude flying a drone from under a mountain in Colorado. Herman Cain or Darwin award, I don't care which.
ETA: I goofed and somehow missed the term "national guard". Don't comment when in meetings.
There were groups of armed militia on the border a few years ago. I hope it goes better this time but I doubt it. If anything they are only emboldened.
You do realize that the National Guard is an Armed Service branch right? The major differences between the National Guard and Army is that they aren't an active duty branch and answer to the Governor of their respective States. National Guard units were deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's not some good ol' boys in military surplus equipment.
If this actually turns into a gun fight it going to be US Military attacking US Military.
I see comments like this a lot in discussions online. How many drones do you think they have? Do you think one drone operator can fly around taking out every one of thousands of people?
It's like people think that drones equal omnipotence. The real air power is actual planes like the F/A-18 and A-10 that can demolish the shit out of any ground target. Drones are small and used for limited targets, and attack planes can do a lot more, and the US gov't has all of them.
It's meant to be slightly facetious to point out the ridiculousness of applying 18th century thinking towards 21st century technology.
