Far-right extremism is thriving in rural areas. Here&#x27;s what it looks like in Upstate NY

Trump Declared Himself the ‘President of Law and Order.’ Here’s What People Get Wrong About the Origins of That Idea

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I will keep saying this like a broken record:

"Law and order" is a dogwhistle that means "oppress minorities"

“I do not believe we have to choose between law and order and racial justice in America,” Biden said in a speech this week. “We can have both.”

At the apex of the civil rights movement, ... “Law and order” was “a strategy for reaching suburban voters without having to say the ugly part [talking about race] out loud,” says Leah Wright-Rigueur, a political historian and public policy professor at Harvard University. Source

Except from above:

“Law and order” might sound simple, a 1968 TIME cover story on the campaign pointed out, but to some it was “a shorthand message promising repression of the black community”—and to that community, it was “a bleak warning that worse times may be coming.”

From "law and order" to MAGA - why dog whistles may be even more powerful than overt appeals to racism.

Pass it on.

Sixner

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Sounds about right.

Just like States Rights meaning "WE get to decide how to oppress our minorities, not the government."

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Yep. Laws can be un just. And the order corrupt. That's why they like them. Fuck yer law and order. Give me justice and peace.

Asafum

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They can still call themselves that, because no matter what happens to "their guy" it will NEVER be "real." It will always be "the deep state" or "liberal biased judges" or "fake Republicans that are really Democrats."

I'll yell this from the rooftops every goddamn chance I get:

WE HAVE A GIGANTIC PROPAGANDA PROBLEM!

Trainguyrom

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I'd argue it's stagnant wages plus a rising cost of living creating enough anxiety and depression for conmen to take full advantage of, followed by years of propaganda.

There's a simple reason why: wages have been stagnant for decades and vehicles have sold for roughly the same prices for decades after adjusting for inflation. When things are further apart you put a lot of miles on your vehicle very fast (easily 10-20k miles a year if you have a relatively short commute and limited social life)

A single vehicle costs about as much as an individual's median annual income in most rural areas now, and because individual privately owned cars are the only transportation, plus services are far more centralized now (meaning you have to travel to the next town for this that or the other) you truly need 1 vehicle per adult

spader312

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Why are they wearing masks now? Couldn't do it in 2020?

some_guy

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You see, the masks they told us to wear in 2020 weren't "patriotic." The masks they wear today protect "freedom." I hope I've cleared that up for you.

TLDR the right is full of shit.

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Masks to protect people's health is fascist.

Masks to protect your face from being recognized during your violent overthrow of your area is eagle fucking freedom.

madcaesar

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These morons do everything backwards... Instead of going after the billionaires who are actually making their lives shit they are going after the poor.

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People are desperate, angry, and feel like they have nothing to lose. Because regardless of who is in office, they never help. And people who feel.like they have nothing to lose, are going to act like they have nothing to lose.

Soooooooo many of our issues could be solved with the bare minimum social systems in every other developed country

Billy Bob ain't going to try and overthrow the government if he feels the government is looking out for him, even if he's still a racist piece of shit, he's now got something to lose if he fucks around.

Just like with other terrorists, the best way to fight them is figure out why people are joining their organization and then fix whatever issue makes people do it. It's a lot easier to prevent an extremist than to fix one after

ExLisper

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It's not that simple. Racist folks in America don't care they are poor as long as minorities are even poorer. That's a huge part of Republican politics, that's why they vote for Trump. Trump doesn't promise them they will have better lives. It's all racist dog whistles promising them they will still be on top, they will be the 'better' race. That's why they oppose all sensible policies, because they will try to fix inequality and inequality is what they want.

And I don't think there's a simple fix for this. Many countries have this issue (UK, France) and the more progressive policies you try to push there the stronger the push back is. In the end it usually goes farther right until something terrible happens...

dangblingus

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This needs to be repeated. It sounds ludicrous that someone could be so petty and cruel, but it's true. Conservative politics is the ideology of natural hierarchies. It doesn't matter how bad white folks have it, as long as those damn black folks can't use the same drinking fountain as them!

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It’s not that simple. Racist folks in America don’t care they are poor as long as minorities are even poorer

True, but they wouldn't push to keep other races down just so they're below them so they can feel better about their own problems. Or at least wouldn't be pushing so far down.

They wouldn't have as many problems to blame on other races either.

It's not like anything besides 100% solving racism is a waste of time. And keep in mind, this is just a positive side effect to actually helping everyone...

It's like turning down a free steak because the potatoes isn't big enough....

pixelmeow

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They’re turning down the free steak because the [insert ethnicity/whatever difference here] person might get one too.

menthol

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Permanently Deleted

rayyy

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People are desperate, angry, and feel like they have nothing to lose. Because regardless of who is in office, they never help.

We have ONE party that loves and needs division and desperation so they block anything that makes lives easier. The GOP needs riled up, angry people to get elected to "fix things" - that is why nothing changes - witness their immigration strategy.

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Yeah, but it's not just racist hillbillies that feel like they have nothing to lose...

That's a lot of Americans these days. And they make up a lot of the 1/3 that don't vote.

So the other party could sweep elections for decades if they start doing all they can.

FDR only lost two states in 1936. Because people trusted FDR to actually try and help them.

Even tho his push for universal healthcare for stopped by moderate Dems, he still kept getting elected. Because just trying is enough for American voters

kent_eh

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It's a lot easier to prevent an extremist than to fix one after

Yes it is.

But it takes time to get positive results, and far too many people are too short sighted to do anything when the "return on investment" is a generation away.

Every time I've seen those type of program started, the following government cuts them and claims it was a waste of money because it hasn't shown results yet, even though it's only been a year and you can't make signifignat change to people's lives that quickly.

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It's not a generation away tho...

It's not like extremism sits off to the side like a 5gallon bucket and once it's full someone knocks it over.

It's like a garden hose. Turn the faucet down even a little has an immediate effect because it's adding less water immediately.

Every day we lose an American to this extremist shit. Even publicly trying to fix shit and failing would have an immediate effect.

You're other point has to deal with alternating parties.

If we went back to FDR style Dems that consistently put in work to help Americans, Republicans wouldn't be winning anything.

FDR only lost two states in 1936, it's incredibly effective, we just stopped doing it.

7u5k3n

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That sounds a lot like socialism and we can't have that commie trash here!

Murica!

ElleChaise

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I agree with you. It's a catch 22 it though. When you live in a state run by shit birds, they cut off the fed from helping you in every way they can, meanwhile holding their little town hall events and talking to press saying stuff like: ‘the fed doesn't care about American citizens, they're too busy sending aid to [x country] to fix their problems’ and with the very same breath saying how cool it is that they conned the left into giving their state the most funding this year, but the media doesn't hold them accountable anymore and further push the issue "for fear of losing access" to them. The big secret, and the key to the issue in my opinion, is that the media is bought by billionaires who are no longer accountable to reality when reporting the news, the regulatory bodies in this country have been eroded to shit by capitalists, the now obligatory talking point: Citizens United, and that nobody is going to swoop in to save this awful mess from imploding into fascism any time soon. You all need to take personal safety measures; arm yourselves, and train with your weapons in whatever way you can safely afford. These fuckers are coming for us all, and they'll have the full support of a dictatorship soon enough, if we aren't able to get out the vote. UNITE!

Grayox

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And for some reason they think they have more in common with Billionaires than socialists, make it make sense.

eran_morad

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They’re mentally defective. Can’t overcome their lizard brains shouting “OH MUH GAWD THE COLORDS!!!1!”. No ability to think abstractly.

WhatAmLemmy

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Exactly. Likewise, the greatest way to fight the "war on terror" would've been through legitimate support and education, but that would not have enriched the US fossil fuel and MIC oligarchy, or pleased the bloodthirsty neanderthals who refuse to support and educate their own neighbours, so it's a non-starter — now, here we are, and everything's worse.

Imgonnatrythis

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It's such a viscous ugly circle in the US though. I think really piss poor education in a lot of these rural areas is largely to blame. These thugs are by and large incredibly stupid people. The people that want to help fix the rural education systems are made to look like their enemies though, they are literally voting against their best interests. The GOP thrives off denying quality education and manipulating the feeble minded. Stupidity breeds hate and fear, and guess what, they have propaganda to play on those secondary features as well. You could try to give these people money and education and they would slap it out of your hand, call you a commie fag, and feel they did the right thing. We shouldn't stop trying, but it's really hard to help someone that shuns the help being offered.

31337

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Are the people who join these groups typically struggling workers? The Jan 6 mob seemed to be mostly relatively well-off small business owners and the self-employed. Who else has time to do all this stupid shit? And all that money to waste on guns and LARPy gear?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act

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Exactly. Broke people can't just up and travel to DC for a week. Where I live we have 3 downtown restaurants owned by J6ers. 🙄

eran_morad

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Billy Bob can’t string together 5 functioning neurons and synthesize that he’s being manipulated by intelligent people who would watch the world burn for that sweet dolla dolla bill. Give him a $100K welfare check and he’d behave exactly as he does now, the marionette that he is.

deweydecibel

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Then why don't these assholes vote for people who actually propose things to help them?

Regardless of whether they can even be passed with a broken Congressional system, the Republicans they're supporting don't even pay lip service to helping anyone anymore. They don't promise support, they actively destroy the support, they spit on the very idea of support. Routinely

And yet these people go to the polls for them.

We are loooooong past the "economic anxiety" excuse.

FlyingSquid

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The last time it got close to this bad, it ended up in the Oklahoma City Bombing.

What's going to happen this time?

cmbabul

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It’s not something that’s always in the forefront of my thoughts, but I’ve been expecting something like that since qanon took off

Uglyhead

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Before the OKC there was Ruby Ridge Massacre and Branch Davidian Cult Massacre which one could say led directly to the retaliation against the FBI.

Until the javkboots bomb a whole city block like the MoVE bombing in Philly 1985, I’ll say things are pretty tame comparatively.

JustZ

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God damn, imagine if a bunch of black people did what the Proud Boys say and do. The police would probably bust out another improvised airstrike.

7u5k3n

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Or implement gun control to help imprison group leaders and breakup black "radical" groups.

Cough Ronald Reagan cough

NewNewAccount

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Pretty tame? I’d bet things are going to get more and more heated as we get closer to the election.

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I get what you're saying and I wonder also. But at the same time, the terrorism has been happening; look at all the racially motivated attacks we've seen since 2016.

I expect more. But to your point i wouldn't be surprised to see another major act of domestic terrorism on par with the Oklahoma City Bombing.

I feel like things are way, way worse than they were back then. Way worse than it's been since the civil rights era.

FlyingSquid

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Oh I know it's been happening. But it's been (relatively) small scale by far. Something big is coming though, I would bet on it.

AbsoluteChicagoDog

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....like storming the fucking capital building?

FlyingSquid

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Almost no one died.

In the Oklahoma City bombing, 168 people died and 680 were injured in the blast. There was a daycare center there, so 19 of those 168 dead were babies or small children.

So yeah, in terms of politics, January 6th was worse. In terms of deaths, Oklahoma City was far worse. That's what I'm talking about happening again eventually, and probably not too far in the future.

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I certainly won't bet against you on that, as much as I might hope you'll be proven wrong. Shit is going to get wild depending on how the presidential election turns out.

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Which one?

To be clear I know which one you were referring to. But isn't it kinda fucked up that there's been enough that you might even have to stop to ask that for a second.

JimmyBigSausage

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They will dangerously convene and wait for JFK, Jr. in Dallas again.

DemBoSain

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I see "anti-government" and "against government tyranny" in this story a lot, but these people are NOT anti-government. They're very pro-government, as long as the government uses its power to enforce their beliefs. They're very willing to use the power of government to enforce the laws as they see them, and ignore the laws they don't like.

kromem

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Seriously. The monarchy they want is a form of government.

prole

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They don't want monarchy, they want feudalism.

kromem

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No, the people cheering for their spray tanned leader to have absolute power and to be above the law want monarchy, not feudalism. That's literally one of the cited differences between the two.

pinkdrunkenelephants

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The only ones to blame for the rise of fascism are the fascists. They choose to support an ideology of bigotry and genocide. They choose to act that way.

All you're doing is enabling them by making them out to look like victims when they are anything but.

cedarmesa

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I remember when trump was first elected and the media was hand wringing about how it was democrats fault for being mean to republicans, calling them deplorable and such and that rural voters were dealing with "economic anxiety". Fucking trash elects trash........why did the left do this? Makes my blood boil.

pinkdrunkenelephants

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Because decades of nonviolence used as propaganda made them easy to manipulate and abuse. That's why.

Meowoem

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I know it's easy to see things that way but the reality is they're people and if we went to move into a better future then we're going to have to work out how to convince people to move forward with us.

It saddens me how many purportedly on the left seem to want nothing but conflict and violence. It feels like they're working to try and make things worse simply so they can feel some foolish sense of pride at being right or play out some childish freedom fighter fantasy.

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Yep it's definitely a fantasy and not a reaction to the rapidly growing percentage of Americans openly calling for violence against us. Preparing to defend oneself is not the same.

They're gonna be rounding up people and throwing bodies in ditches and you enlightened centrists will still be running defense for these fascists.

cedarmesa

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Why wont the left flatter my hairstyle while I kick their teeth in? Tucker told me they were soy boys who would tolerate any abuse I threw at them. Grow up.

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For the last 40 years, boomers have had a stranglehold on government power. And you know what they say. The good die young. What's left in charge are some of the most distilled evil, brain addled geriatrics. With little in the way of actual ideas about solutions. Only clinging desperately to power and relevance. To the detriment of everyone else.

stratosfear

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This is such a tiring generalization. Boomers, like the rest of Americans, had been detached from politics for much of their lives. You realize most every president has been near a 50/50 split for vote? It's not like Reagan won with 80% of the vote, which the majority voting age at that time was boomers.

Who has a stranglehold on government power is corporations. Fight the real enemy, not the people who for much of their lives (at least half of them) were trying to do the right thing.

Xanis

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I suggest we choose to fight at all. Which we haven't. Somehow for the last 6 years we all continue to talk most and act least.

stratosfear

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The simple fact is if everyone who was capable of voting did vote in their interests we would easily move the US left (actually getting us to somewhere center/left-center as there is no left whatsoever in America). Republicans would go away, we could move past Democrats, and directly address corruption.

But, "their" system of making people think voting doesn't matter (plus of course voter repression and gerrymandering) and keeping people focused on shit that doesn't matter (like ageism) is working, as it has for decades.

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It is a tired generalization. That's why I didn't make it. I wasn't talking about boomers in terms of this party or that party. But boomers as a block and their control of the positions of power in the parties.

Ultragramps

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The average age in Congress is the highest ever, both things can be true.

eran_morad

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Remember, we outnumber these cunts.

RGB3x3

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But do we out-gun them?

I don't think any civilians should be able to own firearms, but those MAGA cunts own them and you can be damn sure I'm not going to let them get one up on me.

Everyone, buy a gun, train thoroughly, and don't let these assholes bully us into letting them run the country.

nomous

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Unfortunately this is the way.

This isn't a game, the police will not protect us, that's been shown. They'll happily club an old lady to the ground and shoot you in the face with rubber bullets if you get near them. I tell my friends as often as I can now is the time. Get a gun or two (a long one a short one) and learn how to use them. Learn some basic medic training (you just need to know how to stablize somebody). Start networking with like-minded people around you. Learn how to rely on yourself and your community. The rightwing wants to install a theocracy in the U.S. in disregard of whatever personal freedoms you hold dear and they're very close to accomplishing it.

naughtyguy17

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In Upstate NY? Most likely so. I grew up poor, in a family that relied on hunting for food. I'm significantly more financially secure now, but I've still two long barrels locked up with a fair amount of ammo.

Just in case.

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Everyone, buy a gun, train thoroughly, and don’t let these assholes bully us into letting them run the country.

Yeah, because if there's one thing we know, it's that more guns will solve all the problems.

skyspydude1

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All of them? Absolutely not. The problem of these shitbags being armed and wanting to use them to install a dictatorship? Yeah, being on somewhat equal footing of arms definitely helps.

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Yeah, anything to give them an excuse to get more and bigger guns, because escalation always makes things better. Woo Guns!!!

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What's distressing is that while the extreme-right may be a minority, republican supporters are something like 40%+ of the US electorate. There are tens of millions of people who hold those views.

Black_Char

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I always think it's funny how these hypocratic douchbags will wear masks in public to prevent people from recognizing them but wont wear one to save their neighbors life.
I also think it's funny how they claimed having military and police joining the groups that they know what they're doing, when these people spend their lives being told exactly what to do, how to do it, and what to think about it.
Last note, looked this one up just to be double sure, how they got a guy with the name Mizrahi to join a white power hate group when that name has origins rooted Jewish and Israeli cultures is beyond me. How people can be convinced to go against their own best interest is beyond me.

variants

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Reminds me of the movie easy rider, and that movie was made in the sixties but its still so relevant, every time people start trying to live freely

“Oh no. What you represent to them is freedom.”

“What the hell’s wrong with freedom, man? That’s what it’s all about.”

“Oh yeah, that’s right, that’s what it’s all about, all right. But talkin’ about it and bein’ it – that’s two different things. I mean, it’s real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. ‘Course, don’t ever tell anybody that they’re not free ‘cause then they’re gonna get real busy killin’ and maimin’ to prove to you that they are. Oh yeah, they’re gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom, but they see a free individual, it’s gonna scare ‘em.”

“Mmmm, well, that don’t make ‘em runnin’ scared.”

“No, it makes ‘em dangerous.”

dangblingus

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It's tempting to dwell on the hypocrisy, after all, surely saying one thing and doing another should be the ultimate way to scare people away from your ideology. Even the Right is obsessed with highlighting perceived inconsistencies and hypocrisies from the Left. But at this stage in the game, with climate change, culture wars, and a fractured population that shares no common values, hypocrisy is small potatoes. Let's hold people's feet over the coals and make sure that the right policies get passed.

Showroom7561

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Law and order? So they also want Trump in prison?

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No just minorities.

bobs_monkey

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Don't forget gays, trans, Jews, Muslims, Catholics, unmarried women... anyone that isn't a white, Christian male.

Bakkoda

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As a Democrat from upstate NY let me tell you why the rural areas are dark red: NYC seems to be all that matters.

BenPranklin

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At least 50% of NY's population lives within 50 miles of NYC and I wouldn't be surprised to find out its closer to 65% or 70%. Of course it gets the most attention. I get why people living outside that area would be upset but they cant be surprised.

You see the same thing in every state with a large metro area. There's always griping from western and central MA but the fact is 75% of the population lives in the Boston metro area.

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The issue, addressed in the article, is that these rural areas used to have industry that gave people a sense of purpose. Now the choices are basically move to a city, die of a heroin overdose, or join a right wing militia. We need to give these people something to do that's beneficial and where they feel they're contributing to their communities, otherwise, they're going to be wooed by groups with ulterior motives that dress their goals up in rhetoric of service and cohesion.

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I mean we have crumbling infrastructure. You could probably start some sort of government program to have people work on that. Like the whole pipeline from education through training, building, maintaining, researching.

Unfortunately a chunk of the us is pathologically opposed to that sort of thing.

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Yeah, I'd love to reinstate the CCC & Youth Corps as permanent jobs programs, including all the arts funding, but that ain't happening. Guess we'll just have to get shot by Proud Boys instead.

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The exact people we're supposed to be coddling and hand feeding, specifically.

I'm sympathetic to economic concerns, that sympathy lessens alot when you reject any offered solutions to scream "coal or bust" (or relevant absent industry here.) That sympathy dissipates completely once you decide to blame gays and blacks and start spending all your "I ain't got no money" cash on Maga gear and throwing faschie parades.

It's almost as if it's not about economics at all 🤔

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I’m sympathetic to economic concerns, that sympathy lessens alot when you reject any offered solutions to scream “coal or bust” (or relevant absent industry here.)

The problem with this statement is that liberal/left/environmentalist forces have been waging a war on coal for decades now, and winning. This is the root of the rural working class turn against the Democrats. We had nearly 200k coal workers in the 80s, and now it's down to under 50k. That's people directly employed in coal, not to mention those employed in the thriving rural economies they supported. Millions of people have been impacted by the decline of coal, and right or wrong, they perceive Democrats as responsible for both the decline, and the failure to support the people who were impacted.

At this point you have generational poverty as a result of the closure of coal mines and plants, and you have kids growing up who don't know what it used to be like, they only know the abandoned buildings and drug addiction they grow up surrounded by. I'm not saying we have to tolerate the negative attitudes that fester in these situations, but we do have to understand where they come from, and we certainly shouldn't let it stop us from trying to make things better. If people have positive, productive things to do, they won't spend all their time on the internet finding reasons to hate their neighbors, and that facet of the problem will solve itself over time.

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a. Coal sucks. It was never going to last forever. It's horrible for the environment at like every stage.

b. 200k people is nothing. There are almost that many people living in my neighborhood of Brooklyn alone. I'm not keen on them having so much more political power than here.

Mining for coal again is just a non starter. There's only so much in the ground to begin with, and a lot of people don't want the environment to be damaged that badly.

There are things we could do as a society to make things better. Probably none of the good ideas come from the right wing. Basic income or government work programs would probably help. Letting the free market decide will just lead to people being exploited and the environment savaged.

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People love to make the "empty land should vote" argument by harping that urban areas "don't care about rural needs" but also love to ignore that anytime the rural areas are consulted the response is always basically "coal or coup" or "ban f**s or coup."

I'm tired of these various right wing interests absolutely refusing to engage with any part of the process then crying that they're being oppressed because they don't get their extreme demands met, and I'm tired of people making excuses for them as they march in the streets to undo the whole country.

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200k people is nothing.

What a horrible, neoliberal thing to say.
It's not just 200k people, it's hundreds of thousands more that lost their livelihoods when the main economic driver in their area shut down.

I'm not arguing for coal (it's 2024, why are we still using it at all?), I'm arguing against abandoning an entire population of people who made their livings off of it and its cascading economic effects.

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It's funny how the enlightened centrists who attack leftists (no matter how varied) as single issue voter, big govt nuts, and insensitive are always the same people who think "if we don't use big govt to ban all energy except coal and force companies to reopen all the mines no matter how problematic then they have every right to overthrow the government."

Why don't we try that with a leftist position? "Institute single payer Healthcare so every citizen has access to healthcare scot free or else we're going to overthrow the government?"

Y'all would SCREECH about it being economically impossible, brand us as terrorists, and be ITCHING to gun us down. But hey the people who just want to kill gays and own blacks again, they get a pass and we need to cowtow to their demands or else we deserve it.

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You seem to be arguing with me, but I agree with almost everything you say. In particular stuff like:

Why don’t we try that with a leftist position? “Institute single payer Healthcare so every citizen has access to healthcare scot free or else we’re going to overthrow the government?”

Corporate merger? How about we start with nationalize both companies, guillotine the executives, and hand it all over to unions?

We shouldn't compromise on getting rid of coal, but we should make sure the people and communities affected are taken care of in the aftermath. Or should have, anyway, that ship has basically sailed. It's the same neoliberal psychopathy that turned the post-industrial northeast and midwest into a war zone in the 60s-80s.

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used to have industry that gave [men] a sense of purpose

They need gender-affirming care.

nomous

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Whew, for a second I was afraid someone wasn't going to explicitly make it about gender.

Thank you for your service.

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Women aren't dying of drug overdoses in Appalachia and the Rust Belt?

daemoz

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We dont owe them shit. They owe us their representation if they are going to use it to dismantle our society.

thisbenzingring

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its the same on the other coast... Seattle and the i5 area are what keep Washington blue. There are some deep red parts of Washington state and its frightening. As someone that looks like my father (Anglo Saxon) but identifies with my mother (Lakota), it is a surreal experience sometimes. People are fucking crazy and the people who think they are powerful (the deep red) because they are loud are going to have a very rude awakening if there is a violent revolution. They do not have the numbers to repel an angry populace that is fleeing the cities.

blazeknave

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That's the entire planet. Metropolitan places are metropolitan. Homogeneous places are filled with ignorance and prejudice.

cedarmesa

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As it should be, thats where the people are.

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NYC matters a whole lot fucking more than Mechanicville. What do they even want?

NYC has a shit ton of economic and cultural output. It matters.

I get that people might feel bad that they're seen as irrelevant or uninteresting. But, uh, tough?

RaoulDook

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All citizens deserve representation. Taxation without representation is why the USA was founded in revolt against the British.

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They literally have representatives. At federal and state levels. And presumably local, too.

skulblaka

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Yes but if the representatives aren't representing their populace accurately, then what is a citizen to do? Vote, obviously, but in the meantime?

The unfortunate truth is that largely the state of New York may as well just be the province of New York City, plus a few additional hangers-on that don't really matter beyond a couple percentage points here or there. And those folks out hanging on, upstate, aren't feeling very represented. Because New York City is, essentially, all that matters in the state economically.

I don't know how to solve this in a way that makes sense. I believe that every person is entitled to representation that matches their needs. But when you have a single representative attempting (if they even do that) to represent both the big city and the rural interests at the same time, there are going to be some incompatible requests. And the city wins those, always, because it's the economic driver of the state.

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I DO understand economic concerns in these areas making people leery and whatnot, but I am SOOOOOO over this argument that they have NO responsibility to have even the most casual relationship with reality and "What are they supposed to do? NOT overthrow the government and advocate for slavery?! Gtfo here you insensitive libtard!"

If my car's check engine light light comes on I can't replace my spark plugs with twizzlers and expect it to run better, you can't throw a "kill the gays and blacks" parade and expect NYC to send your small county 75% of their tax revenue.

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our-work/addressing-political-violence-unlawful-paramilitaries-and-threats-to-democracy/state-fact-sheets/

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The reps are based on geography. They have districts. They're supposed to represent those people. The Senate less so, since that's two people for the whole state, but that's a problem for any state that's not fairly homogenous.

I don't really have a good solution that doesn't make some heavy changes to the us government. But within the current constraints, I think cities frankly matter more.

Side note: I've been reading about how people's minds change. It turns out that when someone encounters a fact or statement that challenges their group status, like "cities matter [and the suburbs don't]" above, the brain typically reacts similarly to how it responds to a physical threat. Pretty much no one responds to that kind of thing with a cool rational head. The brain desperately looks for security, even if it has to fall back on "no, fuck you." I do it, too. Makes debate hard.

Ultragramps

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The capital of Washington DC has “taxation without representation” on their license plates.

Wolf_359

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Democrat in NYS here. The right wingers I know are often pissed that we have to obey laws that make sense for cities but don't make sense for rural areas.

Similarly, they get pissed that billions of dollars go to NYC when we have important bridges and roads that have been closed for years.

I understand why it is that way. I understand it's hard to have it any other way. And I understand our country is facing more important things right now. But I can also sympathize a bit.

NYC is the money maker because money gets put into it which makes it the money maker which is why money gets put into it, etc.

A lot of these areas used to be economically successful and aren't anymore. It does suck that I'm stuck here due to family and friends. Sure I could pack up and move to a liberal city but I'd be leaving a lot behind and my son would be without any extended family. Can't do it.

31337

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Lack of diversity, the higher degree of isolation in rural/suburban life, and higher amount of churchgoers getting preached hate probably has something to do with it too.

JustZ

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Absolute dumbasses. The lowest achievers from high school, never left town, and signed up for Facebook one day, and now here we are.

In my state, claiming to be part of a militia, unless you've been specifically called up by the Governor, or activated by the feds somehow or another, is a felony.

These groups needs to be considered terrorists, their assets seized, and their presence made illegal. Their goal is the violent oppression of minorities in violation of the Constitution.

Long time ago the Supreme Court said advocating to overthrow the government is protected First Amendment speech, and that made sense when I learned about it but now I think it was a mistake, said from a place of great comfort.

andyburke

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Speaking peacefully about government change is not the same as forming an armed militia. Don't let them conflate those two things in your mind.

JustZ

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True story.

Corkyskog

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They are auditioning. Their paperwork will be appropriately stamped if their candidate gets in.

thoughtorgan

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Permanently Deleted

CurbsTickle

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You're ignoring the majority of the second amendment, as well as it's history.

It's also gone through the Supreme Court and confirmed as constitutional - because private paramilitary organizations are not protected by the 2nd amendment, from Presser v. Illinois in 1886 all the way through DC v. Heller in 2008.

Your understanding of the 2nd Amendment seems to be limited to the single line of "keep and bear arms", ignoring the remainder of the amendment as well as it's historical basis as part of a desire to not have a standing army.

I recommend learning more about it.

thoughtorgan

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Permanently Deleted

CurbsTickle

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As has been the case throughout American history.

Georgetown put together fact sheets if you want the state-by-state:

thoughtorgan

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Permanently Deleted

CurbsTickle

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Same way you can go a few miles over the limit and not get a ticket - they aren't being looked at.

Or maybe they are, and they haven't crossed a line that makes it a "big bust" that prosecutors like to do in order to bolster their political position.

Or some members are cops.

Lots of illegal things happen every day without being prosecuted, doesn't make it any more legal though.

marx2k

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PanArab

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I miss when rural farmers and miners were socialists.

maness300

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I've met Trump-voting conservatives that flat-out said they believe Communism could work.

They're people too, with all the nuance that comes with it.

myrrh

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I miss when rural farmers and miners were socialists

(modern rendition)

...playing some good-old-fashioned call of cthulhu (or old gods of appalachia) cultivates warm fuzzies for the labor movement something fierce...

taanegl

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The republican party and democratic party in the 60s:

CHANGE PLACES!!!!

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Years ago I dated someone who lived in upstate New York. Her neighbor flew a Confederate flag. And also poisoned neighborhood cats.

AirlineF0od

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That's unbelievably sad... 😞

Tetractys

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Flag yes. Killing cats, no. They are a huge damage to the environment.

Meowoem

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You're a horrible person and no amount of pretending to be high minded will change that

Tetractys

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I'm talking about facts and you're attacking me? Who's horrible? Ad hominem.

Kanga

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So funny, the proud boys guy was of Mexican descent, the guy in this article seems of middle eastern descent, can they really be this dumb and support white supremacy ideology?

PanArab

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Yes. Many Middle Easterners in the US are white-passing, conservative and racist. Take for example Darrel Issa.

Ultragramps

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Let us not forget the Founding member Proud Boys Gavin McInnes, who made an angry video sodomizing himself to own the libs. The proud boys REALLY don’t like talking about ol’ Gavin.

MindSkipperBro12

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There’s still Slavic nazis.

Mr_Blott

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First time I've seen somecunt with more flags than brain cells

Imgonnatrythis

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I assure you that is not a rarity in rural US.

Bakkoda

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Take a trip down to a beach in the outer banks. Never seen so many trucks and American flags practically parked in the fuckin ocean.