Why is Ubuntu getting so much hate? it was a good entrance for many people into the Linux world
It started when they started including Amazon sponsored results in the menu search really. These days using apt occasionally will install a snap package instead of a deb. It doesn't give people a good jumping on point and it teaches that linux is more difficult than it has to be.
Emphasis on it was. It started to go downhill with Amazon integration and now we have paid security updates. They are holding back developed and available security packages for their OS!
There is no way to still recommend Ubuntu. No need to even talk about the other questionable decisions like snap.
Isn't Linux mint an Ubuntu fork? That gets recommended to tons of people who seek an entrance into the Linux world. Is it as bad as Ubuntu?
It is a fork, meaning its like ubuntu but with the bullshit that makes ubuntu bad removed. It is completly safe but if you wanna stay clear of any trace of ubuntu at all there is also a debian based version of mint
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LMDE and PopOS are my consistent recommendations to newcomers. If one doesn’t work, the other will.
I would recommend only community maintained distros at this point... seing as how RH and Canonical went to the dark side for some things, I'd rather not recommend something maintaned by a company.
Pop-os is likely the best ubuntu flavored OS to recommend. It has nice features like solid gaming intergration and an optional tiling manager, all without snaps.
The problem is always having the bad option being enabled by default. Not even the ads are the biggest problem. I didn't even mention their current ads in the terminal. The problem is the same Microsoft is having now, that your keyboard input gets sent to an untrustworthy third party.
Your comment got cut off. If you wanted to dispute the paid paid claim. It is about Ubuntu Pro, that's literally all what the basic tier is. We recently even had the case where a patch with a highish CVE rating was only available to subscribers of the service. We also verified that the same patch was already available on Debian. Even without my anecdote it should be obvious why it is bad.
Can someone please show me these ads for snaps? I've been using Ubuntu for almost 4 years and I've never seen an ad for anything.
They don't really asvertise snaps in the OS per say, but they do push users to use snaps instead of .deb packages. Why? My best guess is they wanna monopozie the portable app market (Snaps, Flatpak, AppImage) and become sort of like what systemd is now - unreasonable to ask to use anything else but systemd.
Pro features ads are right there when you do apt update or apt upgrade (can't remember which one of these, maybe both).
Is it an ad or is it just letting you know about a feature you can use? I don't personally consider that an ad.
Unpopular opinion I prefer snaps over flatpak. At least when I update snaps I actually know how much is going to be downloaded lol
They forced Firefox's default package into a snap recently. They did this without integrating with Gnome or common plugins like password managers. This of course broke a ton of shit out of the blue.
Then, to get Firefox off of snap, you have to do a non zero amount of config instead of giving the users a simple option at install. If you mess that config up at all, the next Firefox update just goes back to snap.
Forcing people's primary application into an Canonical controlled packaging system is likely worse than an ad, honestly. It made it very clear to me that Ubuntu did not respect user choice like it used to, so i migrated off of it.
I bounced around to Debain and opensuse tumbleweed, but landed on pop-os. Ubuntu without snap nonsense, optional i3 tiling manager implementation, "just works."
For the server side, ive moved to Debian. Nothing lost at all.
Well, yeah. It's not actually an add, but it does say that there are pro features available (can't remember exactly what it said). It's just pushy, not something I'd expect to see in a Linux distro.
I don't like either, I always use native pacakges. I repackage what is not available for the distro I currently use. It's just simpler IMO. One pacakge manager, all apps are available system wide, so if I decide to switch accounts or someone else might wanna use my computer/laptop, no prob, just log in as Guest, do whatever, log out.
Is this also true for headless servers? I’ve been using Ubuntu via SSH for 15 years now and it’s always been fine for me but I’ve also never run the desktop version (for more than a few days anyway.)
I just installed it on a scavenged workstation last month to use as a media server and I didn’t notice anything unusual.
Edit:
While we’re at it, what does the hive mind think I should be using instead for turning old trash PCs into shitty servers? The only thing Lemmy has taught me so far is that Ubuntu sucks and the only truly honorable choice is to quit my job and stop speaking to my family so that I can devote my life to installing drivers on unstable Arch. Also, I’m supposed to buy some thigh-high stockings and learn to tuck apparently?
I usually use Debian for servers, which would be fine for you because Ubuntu is(was?) based on it, so it's still got apt and some other similarities.
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I use Debian headless for my media server and mint cinnamon on the desktop. I don't care for anything vaguely Gnome 3.
I've been dist updating my fileserver for a decade and noticed over the last year or so that I'm using considerably more disk space than I expected on my OS drive. I see a lot of Snap installs (which I'd rather not use), and am getting messages from apt update telling me there's additional security packages if I switch to some Ubuntu paid subscription or something.
I don't really care to look more into it. I've been meaning to rebuild the hardware anyways, and will probably install Arch or Debian.
I've been using it for desktop for the last 2 years and haven't had any issues preventing me from booting (that werent self-caused). I'm actually quite impressed with how well it works, but I do have what I consider a healthy distrust of the AUR and tend to stay away unless I can't find a solution to my problem in the official repos.
What makes you hesitant to use it as server?
I personally go for Debian over Ubuntu as its simpler and doesn't have a lot of overhead.
Honestly if you don't have a problem then don't worry about it. I just have noticed Ubuntu server takes way for resources and the extras such as snap and cloud init add extra complexity
While we’re at it, what does the hive mind think I should be using instead for turning old trash PCs into shitty servers?
Void. The speed difference is unmeasurable, especially when using old equipment. Plus it still supports x86. If you're used to the terminal, you won't notice a difference, trust me... except a lot more speed and less RAM usage.
The only thing Lemmy has taught me so far is that Ubuntu sucks and the only truly honorable choice is to quit my job and stop speaking to my family so that I can devote my life to installing drivers on unstable Arch.
Everything works pretty much out of the box in Void. Hardware doesn't work? Try installing some of the firmware binary blobs (firmware-intel, firmware-broadcom, etc.). Check the hardware manufacturer and model with lspci or lsusb (depending on how the hardware is connected to the PC). 99% of the time, the thing works after firmware packages are installed 👍.
Also, I’m supposed to buy some thigh-high stockings and learn to tuck apparently?
No, just be open minded to new things and have a reddit account for asking questions/getting support... cuz the Void team didn't join the protest and their subreddit is still the official help forum for Void.
Void isn't a industry standard and takes lo get to setup. You can use what you find easier though.
No Linux distro is an "industry standard"... if you're thinking of POSIX compatible.
Well, there are 2, one is that distro Huawei made and I forgot the other one. But basically, those two are the only ones that are POSIX certified.
Industry standard means you can find support for it easily. Void has a wiki but you don't find a lot of users with void knowledge. Its just something to keep in mind.
Firefox snap doesn't work with keepassxc browser integration and smart cards randomly, so I uninstalled the default snap on ubuntu, edited configs to make sure it didnt grab snap by default, and then install the deb Firefox.
Every single fucking time I did a distro upgrade, ubuntu uninstalled deb Firefox, rwdis the configs to automatically install snap Firefox, and then reinstalled snap Firefox.
One of the reasons I left windows was because it kept changing my default browser. How is ubuntu any better?
I started my linux journey on ubuntu 11.10. I have some real nostalgia and loyalty to that platform, but I recently gave up on it and switched to fedora because of its relentless self-promotion is snap. I feel like you'd be doing a disservice to recommend it as a gateway into Linux to someone nowadays.
Oooooh, that'd really rub me the wrong way. My wife is still on a Windows PC. She'll ask my why certain changes she made get reverted, and my default answer is "Microsoft thinks it knows better than you".
Canonical has a long history of thinking it knows better than you, but funneling everyone into their closed-source walled-garden our-way-or-the-highway gonna-charge-money-the-moment-we-figure-out-the-legality Snap Store sure if the most Microsofty.
Need to use Ubuntu at work on some of the machines. Canonical distributes broken packages and has done this for years.
They do so also when the package on Debian is fine. So they take the Debian package, add breakage and release it.
Ubuntu is a pile of crap, but still better than Windows.
What packages? Cuz if it's FF or something they ship in the Snap store, they have an incentive to do that - deb desn't work, use Snaps 🤷.
One of the binaries in graphviz is compiled with the wrong flags for years.
The Python module networkx is broken on 22.04.
Long live the savor Nix.
Yeah, like 20 years ago. Things change. Hoary Hedgehog was my first real daily driver, and I miss what Ubuntu was. But that Ubuntu is no more.
These days I use Debian for that old school no-BS Ubuntu feel. If I'm gonna use a .deb based distro, might as well use the granddaddy of them all.
Part of it is the fact that Ubuntu is an entry level sort of OS, it's been simplified down and made easy. So the sort of people who have it are often less tech-savvy, and when something does go wrong, they ask a lot of pretty basic seeming questions.
This isn't helped by some of Canonical's design choices. Nothing overt, but Ubuntu has a flavor that's distinctly Ubuntu, and knowledge of other distros is sometimes a detriment in solving problems.
Canonical is also a company that just rubs some people the wrong way. There was some data collection shit where they asked users to opt-out of collection, after installing the data collection app.
Then there's Snaps... it's their own unique take on program management. Which is a Canonical thing, reinventing the wheel so that they can have their own unique little thing. Like Mir and Unity, which were then both abandoned to the community.
It's good that the community can take over when Canonical drops something, but still...
Ubuntu is great. I use it on laptops, desktops, servers and IoT devices. We use it on thousands of corp workstations at my workplace too.
Agreed 👍 skimmed over allt of comments in this thread and it does seem like most haters don't have business experience with the os. Of course a different distro will work better and be cleaner. But that only makes sense if you install on a shitty home PC where overhead is a concern or you have all the time in the world to tinker around(looking at you arch). I need something that makes sense, have support and just works. I don't need a "beginner" distro, I need something that comes with all apps preloaded to get actual work done and does not break everytime someone connects a docking station or tries to switch user (looking at you pop OS). And btw Ubuntu Pro (the ad that someone complained about) makes sense for really long term support on some machines, and it is a great deal.
We used to be 100% windows at work, from servers to workstations to integrated systems. Since last year we are moving some systems away from windows. Not only on old hardware but also on brand new, it just works. And compared to windows 11 it is so stable and makes so much sense. The cost is almost nothing, support is good, the actual data collection makes sense, canonical actually only use it to improve their OS and we are happy to report(windows ACTUALLY want to sell you ads and collect everything probably including you mother's middle name, and phones home every few seconds)
Ubuntu hasn't been user friendly in a long time. Linux mint on the other hand nails it completely. I still use it in a few VMs
Ubuntu is good. I use it for work.. maybe mostly because it is supported by Dell ( XPS line). The experience have been very stable, looks good, feels good. Maybe minor complaint about the different app formats, I find it confusing when it is not one single format, but both snap and deb packages work well. Connecting to our windows active directory was smoother than on windows 11 machines.
Yes, but that also kind of drives us to be better at it 🤔... kinda...
Still, I do agree, a dose of it is OK, but constantly, no.
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Ubuntu is fine as a gateway drug imo. It hasn't made the best decisions over time though, but I appreciate it's contribution regardless.
Ubuntu is what got me hooked to linux. By now I’m ready to jump ship and maybe use debian in the future.
I have old history with Linux and am just coming back. I did my first test build for my office to get away from the dying Windows 10/avoiding 11. I went with a basic Linux Mint cinnamon build, got our network printer and core software working. Will you let me live?
Nah, as an arch user most people don't likely need it. Mints a great option. No matter what you do with arch (even endeavor) there'll always be alot of setup, by design, and with how fast things move they'll break commonly. Like the grub issue a bit back, or the kernal that could have caused screens to die, or more recently the nvidia drivers forcing many screens to be stuck at one brightness.
I love arch, it's a testing bed for the linux ecosystem. The first place where things exit beta and interact with each other in the wild. It's definitly not what most people want for a computer though especially not for work. That's why I duel boot with OpenSuse tumbleweed for my contract work (also, separating work and regular life makes things easier but that's not relevent)
Try Void it has an installer 😉.
Kidding, stick to Mint until you feel ready you can take a bigger bite. And do opt for the Debian Edition Mint.
Not to sound condescending, but I'd like to caution against this language. Mint is a perfectly fine OS to run permanently and never look back, and you absolutely can take a bigger bite while never having to install another OS. Distros are for the most part just a jumping off point and a set of defaults.
I agree though, LMDE stronk
My toaster is electromechanical. No µC / mutable memory available. Not even a manual switch (turn on/off using the wall switch). So no arch there unless I swap some components. I use EndeavourOS with DWM on one of my VMs, though.
Do I get to live?
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"Installing Linux on a Dead Badger" is an actual book. https://archive.org/details/installinglinuxo0000snyd/mode/1up
Why they shoot him? With ak's No, no
He need one of these
We need to make sure to get rid of them snaps
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Yeah no
Netplan and the default systemd network dependency can screw off
Doesn't even come with ufw enabled
Just because it rhymes a bit or do I miss something?
I find it a bit confusing because Debian is a mix of Ian and his (then, now ex-wife) girlfriends name Debra.
Beginner here, what is so bad about Ubuntu? I put it on a laptop this weekend and was running and installing software faster than any Windows install I have ever done. Firefox runs fine, the Mozilla email program hooked right up with my ancient Yahoo account. Blender runs like a scalded dog. Cura and prusa run good enough. I'm arguing with Muse and Ardour a bit but expected that. Spotify runs. I'm having a good first experience. So why the hate?
They push their own things on it, like Snaps, which is not an open source standard. Plus they are a subscription based distro now, like RHEL.
You can get the same with a lot less bloat with LMDE. Try it, I'm sure you'll like it.
That may be a wiser choice if you have trouble using certain things that are native to Windows. Use the right tools for the right job.
Bad track record with their privacy invasion via their Amazon shenanigans (which Richard Stallman called the Ubuntu Spyware), the shilling of Ubuntu One cloud and now Ubuntu Pro subscriptions that are reminiscent of Microsoft's shilling of Microsoft accounts and OneDrive, Snap telemetry...
Fair enough. I guess it depends how you look at it. I was thinking in terms of UX, in which case it'd be Mint Cinnamon or anything running KDE Plasma that'd be the Windows of the Linux world.
