Largest prison population both in absolute size AND per capita. Also, random fact, their constitution allows prisoners to be forced into slave labour. Also, another random fact, their prisons are run for profit. None of these facts are related of course!
Next you’re going to tell me that these for-profit prisons lobby the government for harsher prison sentences for things like cannabis possession.
Not to nitpick but not ALL prisons in the US are for-profit. They should be illegal though.
Fun fact - other countries that have for-profit prisons include Australia, Canada, France, the UK, Israel, South Korea, and New Zealand.
This won’t do much since most of these prisons operate under state jurisdiction, but in 2021, President Joe Biden issued an executive order to stop the United States Department of Justice from renewing further contracts with private prisons.
True, however there are bs for-profit elements to even the non-for-profit prisons. Predatory costs to calling / commissary / etc. that still benefit companies when the US imprisons more people.
Even "not for profit" prisons are lining millionaires pockets with infrastructure and maintenance contracts.
Yeah but, america bad right? How dare you point out that other countries do fucked up shit as well
Yeah but, america bad right? How dare you point out that other countries do fucked up shit as well
Because its not that fucked up? Those countries have for profit prisons, but the big difference is that they dont incarnate one percent of their population
And house arrest is being used for mass incarceration of people being ACCUSED before conviction. The punishment can be more severe before conviction.
And many states let private companies charge accused people up to $40 a day for the ankle bracelets.
Uhh...nope.
Also...about 25% of the people incarcerated in America aren't even convicted of a crime yet.
Even if they're found innocent, it's likely already cost them their job or made it so they are so far behind on bills from not working that it becomes next to impossible to climb out from under
Listen I live in the USA, but if thats your best pushback to all those facts - should tell you what a dire state we are in. And prisons that aren't for profit still send out prisoners to for-profit industries to work, so it's kind of a moot point.
california spending 100k+ per prisoner but renting them out for pennies is one of the insane unsustainable aspects of the system and then going and saying "we can't afford to let them out" is mind numbing.
The whole circus is just to keep wages down and arrest anybody folks don't want in their shitty suburb.
And how many of these other prisons offer up their prisoners as extremely cheap labor to businesses that ARE for profit?
That's still about 96,344 people. Which is nearly double the total prison population of Spain.
And yet still most Americans think everyone is trying to sneak into their country! You couldn't pay me to live there.
I'm surprised there is not more travel advisory warnings for travel to America 😮💨
The american continent is actually quite dangerous - if I remember right most of the top 10 dangerous cities are in south- or north america.
Also I once heard that the US is the country with the highest death rate which isn't in a (civil) war...
A lot of people try to get refugee status in the US, but the CBP puts them in open-air prisons in the desert. There are also are least 16 million undocumented immigrants living in the US. They don't all have to "sneak", they just overstay their visas.
The CBP was commissioned explicitly to enforce racial "hygiene" in the US. I don't understand how they weren't disbanded decades ago.
A lot of people try to get refugee status in the US, but the CBP puts them in open-air prisons in the desert. There are also are least 16 million undocumented immigrants living in the US. They don't all have to "sneak", they just overstay their visas.
The CBP was commissioned explicitly to enforce racial "hygiene" in the US. I don't understand how they weren't disbanded decades ago.
A lot of people try to get refugee status in the US, but the CBP puts them in open-air prisons in the desert. There are also are least 16 million undocumented immigrants living in the US. They don't all have to "sneak", they just overstay their visas.
The CBP was commissioned explicitly to enforce racial "hygiene" in the US. I don't understand how they weren't disbanded decades ago.
Listen, a lot of people don't understand the key to the living well in the United States. It's really very simple. Just be rich. You'll have the best life ever.
If you're too stupid to be rich (or you didn't inherit a billion dollars from your parents), blame some poor brown dude for "stealing" a shitty job that you didn't actually want anyways because it's worse and pays less than your shitty job. It won't make anything better at all but at least you'll feel like you understand why everything sucks (even though you actually don't) and you'll have the benefit of living in poverty AND feeling smugly superior to someone else who also lives in poverty for stupid (racist) reasons.
And if you think about it, that sense of superiority is nearly as good (it definitely isn't) as being rich.
Appropriate reaction. I never did the whole thing, because i'm not US and suddenly had enough.
Reminder that the US have never abolished slavery for prisoners and have one of the largest slave population in the world.
Yep... And every time there's an employment issue for the agricultural industry, they whip out the prisoners...
However to the prisoner's credit: They do an absolutely terrible job at whatever it is they're doing.
Why? What are they going to do... Fire you? Jail you? You have no incentive at all to do the job well as a prisoner.
Bonus is by doing a horrific job it makes employers less likely to actually request prison workforces.
well the prison can not pay you and then you dont have the money for soap or tampon and get sick and literally in some cases die
AMENDMENT XIII
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
If you're convicted in the US you become a slave in waiting. Ever wonder why reds Love superfluous policing of certain communities and broken window policing? Because it's a direct pipeline to private prisons profit from legal slaves.
Personally I just want better policing so I don't have to move my family again cause our apartment got shot up thanks to collateral damage.
That's not really the same issue. Also, policing isn't going to fix that or it already would have. The states is the most over policed "democracy"on the planet. Common sense domestic gun policies, actual social security structures meant to help citizens, reverse the gutting of federal civil services like education, any I've one of these would help more than any amount of police and all of them are generally what most other democratic countries have. Dumping more money on unqualified overpaid ass sitters hoping for riot overtime for a new seadoo is how we got here.
I'm cool with everything you said, except the gun control part. Felons are disproportionately POC because of our racist police and courts. POC will be disarmed disproportionately. Now, if we do some blanket amnesty, mass decarceration, and defund, disband, or disarm the police, then maybe gun control won't be enforced in a racist way. But in a country where literal white supremacist gangs run massive police forces, like the LASD, gun control will be weaponized against minorities. Also, gun control is classist and ableist.
I mean, I used to live in a state with some of the strictest gun laws in the country, and had a lot of progressive measures in place to help citizens. We still felt like it was too dangerous to let our children play out of the house, and was proven right when I rushed home to 9mm holes in my door and windows. They weren't actually trying to shoot at my house, it just happened to be behind who they were shooting at.
Thankfully I found a new job and moved to the other side of the country and bought a home in an area that is much safer, and decent police presence. Sad that I had to leave my home state, but I'll do what I have to do my children can grow up safe.
I'm not going to hate for doing the more immediate things to protect your kids, but it's extremely unlikely the police are the differentiating factor here.
M8, how is that relevant :| better policing isnt going to fix the economic/social/mental health conditions that lead to shoot outs...
THEY'RE TRYING TO BUILD A PRISON THEY'RE TRYING TO BUILD A PRISON THEY'RE TRYING TO BUILD A PRISON FOR YOU AND ME
Having to live in the US is already a punishment, being inmate is like being in a prison inside a prison.
I've given the US tons of shit and have even done so in this thread, but I'll be the first to admit there's plenty of reason to migrate. Much of the country is an unwalkable hellhole with mediocre salaries, but there are still at least a few cities that are 1) walkable or have good public transit, 2) have salaries that even western Europe can only dream of 3) aren't all that bad with crime either.
It just sucks to be poor in the US. But if you've got a great career, it's one of the few places where hard work CAN technically result in becoming a millionaire, as a software engineer or doctor for an example. The country has a working population for 167 million and somehow has over 20 million millionaires.
Also there's so much variety of nature for one country, it's nuts.
If H1Bs weren't so hard to come by, I'd probably move and work for that sweet US software engineer salary for 5 years, then move back to my homeland that has much cheaper property lol
What's up with the fact that y'all always compare your country to the third world to make it look better, rather than comparing it to other developed nations?
In fact, even in most 3rd world countries, being poor isn't penalized as much as in the US because you can't be hit with random six figure medical bills
What about comparing it to the UK which has similar problems to the US? barring medical but then again the Tory party are trying to privatize the NHS so not far off
Until your kid gets shot at school, or maybe some other kids in the next city or state... and then it happens the next week at the mall, and the week after at a church, and the week after forever and ever, and you wonder how long until it's your turn, and you think that you wouldn't have to even consider that if you lived almost anywhere else on the planet.
Despite the point you are trying to makes, the kind of events you are describing make up a very small portion of gun violence. The majority of it is crime/gang related, or suicide. Not that that’s really any better, but schools and malls aren’t being shot up every week.
I'll look into the stats, but I hear about mall/school shootings often enough that it feels like every week during the school year.
there are reasons why people are or are trying to immigrate here in droves
If you compare yourself to third-world countries you always come out looking good. "America Bad" can definitely get circlejerky though, no denying that
I have a friend who moved to Germany and now they want to come back to the USA. Grass is always greener...
Anyone I've met outside of America treated me like I lived in a third world country. Perhaps you live a middle class existence in an urban area? Go to a decaying town in a rural area and you will see how nearly half of America lives. A lot of middle class people are super sheltered. Did you buy the laptop you are on? I found mine in the trash outside the college where all the middle class kids go to. Do you use linux because you like free software? I use linux because my computer is literal trash and i need to remove spyware
I’ve had a good, privileged life here in America. I got lucky as a white male in a middle class upbringing, but to complain about my life would be wrong. I am well educated with a solid career path, great benefits, and am doing well. Have always lived comfortably, but still work hard to get ahead. I can’t imagine there is much room for improvement anywhere else in the world for me.
Have you considered that this website is primarily Americans, and thus the most complaints would be... about America when it comes to quality of life/systemic societal issues. We're the wealthiest country on the planet of course people will want to move here.
Nice to see that even here - a shitposting forum - whenever anybody posts anything negative about America, yanks can't handle it.
Theoretically, none, including the United States. In practice, all of them. They are all Capitalist nations, and under Capitalism companies weaponize their massive pool of wealth and resources to push for favorable laws. Thus, any nation with for-profit prisons will see those prison companies perform some type of lobbying.
Unfortunately, Citizens United essentially makes it legal. In most other developed countries, it's not nearly as simple. Not saying corruption doesn't happen, but in many countries it's punishable if it comes out. In my country an MP was investigated for buying a car because she received a discount from the dealer and thought it was normal, but it was considered a potential bribe.
Then go find go find a stupid question to give your stupid answers to.
For-profit prisons are a fucking scourge, and they're way too common.
Would you be surprised to hear that nobody forces you to break the law and go to prison in the US?
Would you be surprised to hear that some people are desperate and resort to gangs and theft because other opportunities have been closed off? How about that we have mass untreated mental illness and people resort to drugs to self medicate? How about that mental illness is still misunderstood even now, leaving people to commit "crimes" such as loitering and being threatening even though what they just need is healthcare? How about that the war on drugs is really what made our prison population sky rocket and the massive increase started in the 1980's? How about that mass incarceration does nothing to affect violent or property crime?
Awful large wall of text stating exactly what I said.
Nobody forces you to commit crime. You make your own choices.
You want to self medicate with drugs and can't handle your shit, you belong in prison or in the ground. You have a mental illness that you decide you don't want to treat and threaten someone, you belong in prison or in the ground.
There is no lack of opportunity in the US, no matter your upbringing or where you're from. You wanna keep that victim mentality, go for it, but nobody gives a fuck.
How does that play out? Do they try to extend sentences? Can they try to influence intake?
-be the "first in the world" -everywhere you go yell "USA! USA! USA!" -sparking people's curiosity and they look into your garden -they find a dystopian horror show, a land where billionaires are kings, millions deprived of liberty, hundred millions depraved of healthcare, an ever increasing tumour of fascists group that wish for some women and minorities to have fewer rights
-ohshit.jpg
You can't have the biggest running circus without everyone starring and complaining and debating.
Tell me you've learned everything you know about the US from 13 year olds online without telling me you learned everything you know from 13 year olds online.
he's not wrong though. like, the mass shooting yesterday was something like the 340th so far this year? the place is fucking nuts
hmmm so what, only like 20 then? you're right, that's absolutely an acceptable amount of mass shootings in the first half of the year.
totally normal and something every country experiences. my bad.
And of those remaining "only like 20", how many were random acts of violence?
We're so close to getting to the infinitesimally small statistical likelihood of this happening.
holy fuck the copium here is pathetic. is this honestly what people tell themselves in order to feel ok about gun violence?
"of those remaining" "take out the gang related shootings" like holy fuck you realize this is an epidemic right? bro if I'm breaking down the different mass shootings into tiers that's a fuckin problem. 1 mass shooting, regardless of your arbitrary criteria for what it takes to actually qualify as one that matters is too many. there's no other argument to make there.
the discussion isn't about what you tell yourself to feel safe. it's about the perception other countries have looking at it. the mentality you're displaying is just contributing to it: you're all fucking nuts lol.
wait... do you really think that filtering mass shootings by use case makes the whole thought of living/visiting America a safer one? lmao
normalize it however you wantz you do you, but the rest of the world looks at this shit like wtf is going on over there?
All if the data is way more nuanced than you are willing to admit. You are very unlikely to get shot going about your daily life in america, or visiting. Just because the media hypes it up doesn't mean Americans fear for their lives everyday. You would be way more likely to get shot in Brazil, Guatemala, Mexico, Columbia, or by suicide by firearm in Canada, Australia or Germany
And potentially somewhere around half of that population is in there for non-violent crimes, with alot of inmates in for drug offenses, it's absolutely ridiculous. Focus on the people that need to be in prisons, the violent sociopaths, stop trying to turn more people into criminals.
THEY'RE TRYING TO BUILD A PRISON THEY'RE TRYING TO BUILD A PRISON THEY'RE TRYING TO BUILD A PRISON FOR YOU AND ME
You wut mate?
Look up, hmmm what's a good one... Oh oh, Northern Marianas Islands. Go go go
The Northern Mariana Islands are a US commonwealth, they voted for and easily chose it in 1975.
Gosh that sounds an awful lot like colonialism with extra steps. Check out their labor law history. It's a real fun read.
You can't seriously believe that nato countries are really indipendent. The USA choose single ministers from certain countries and prime minister needs usa approval.
How can America have 25% of the world's prison population of the entire country doesn't make up even 10% of the world's population?
Well see, that's kinda the point of the post.
We're "the land of the free" but also the land of the most non-free people.
I have a bag and in it are 100 coloured tokens. 90 are black and 10 are red. What percentage of tokens are red? 10 out of 100, which is 10%.
Now I pull two tokens at random. In my hand is 1 red token and 1 black token. I can say red tokens make up 50% of the tokens in my hand. But wait? How can the red tokens make up 50% of the tokens in my hand if they only make up 10% of all the tokens in the bag?
And I left reddit to escape idiots like you. If I can handle being disappointed, so can you. Shut the fuck up.
Gee, I wonder why you expected people to react badly to you 🤔🤔🤔
Guess we'll never know! You have yourself a good one. And if you're American, don't forget to wave your flag today! 😘
If you don't want to hear about America being bad, don't go to the same places as people who live in reality.
I don’t deny the problems with this country. I vote to try and make this country better. Seeing the same posts about how horrible this country is gets old after a while. A majority of Reddit and this site would agree with the flaws of the US. The people who really need to hear this stuff aren’t on here.
Pointing out flaws in the country shouldn't be seen as a personal attack or critique. Many of the victims of America are it's citizens (e.g., the incarcerated).
Nationalism just twists the government into our personal identity to manipulate us. Making fun of the government/system is healthy.
This isn't "Americans dumb" content, which attacks the actual citizens and understandably may weigh on someone.
I’m extremely happy to see a real conversation happening. This is actually worth reading, and not just another idiotic shouting match.
There's a difference between "America has serious problems,let's get to work fixing them" and "America is inherently evil and can't be saved (and you're an idiot at best, a right-wing plant at worst for thinking otherwise)". The former fires people up to start making progess, the latter shuts people down or causes them to tune out of politics altogether.
And to be blunt, this particular meme feels like it's falling more in the second category than the first, at least to me.
The thing is, America (many Americans anyway) are continually screaming at everyone online about how America is the best country in the world and everywhere else is a shithole - despite very few measures supporting that.
If you insist on telling everyone you’re the best, when you have so many serious flaws, people are going to mock you for it.
I take it as “America has good ideals that it should live up to.”
Might be pollyanna-ing… almost certainly am, but I’m trying to take this Independence Day to appreciate what we’ve got, what my ancestors came to this country for, and that the maintenance of it, and the realization of its ideals, is a lot of work we’ve got to do yet, and will always be with us.
You mean don't go to places where children spew nonsense their loser parents tell them because they also made the choice to be degenerate fucking bums their entire lives?
Then when they're middle age and still have nothing to show for it they attempt to influence the entire system to change despite not even being able to improve their own position in life?
Tell us more about how 60% of the population lives paycheck to paycheck because they're just lazy, and not because they were born to the wrong parents in a shitty system that only rewards worthless cunts who succeed by stepping on the throats of the people who do all the work.
Wait do you think people that do the work never receive the benefit and become wealthy?
Are you completely unfamiliar with how most millionaires are made?
Or are you just a useless communists that think capitalism is bad and this conversation just ends here.
What part of the information in the original post is untrue? It is true, then maybe it is ok to point out the bad things?
Hi. As a not American, I can say Americans get made fun of a lot by not Americans. We like to share these jokes with each other online, as not Americans also use the internet.
Canada. I'd appreciate any joke. Personal favourites include our Prime Minister's blackface, or changing the words of the national anthem to be "our home on native land", or suggesting that we have two official languages: English and Chinese.
I thought it was the worst ones.
Because literally the first one that comes to mind is Justin Bieber.
See most places are bad but America should be better. It presents itself as the better. It does not always live up to that better and so those people who want us to be better keep reminding us we have a lot of work to do. I can tell you personally how horrible America can be but I don't think you want to hear that from a Lakota.
We have that percentage because we actually lock up our criminals, unlike Sweden or Germany.
Ah yes, Germany and Sweden. The last bastions for criminals all around the world. Oh wait, I'm 6-7 times as likely to be murdered in the US then those two places (Source).
In both Germany and Sweden rapists who happen to be immigrants don't get punished and their victims get silenced.
I don't agree with this person, but I also feel like I'm missing something in particular if you're asking whether this person is stupid for having that take. Am I? Is there something about those county's prison systems that is important here?
In the USA there is no welfare system that prevents or cures mental disorders, weapons are freely sold and the streets are not safe. It is clear that the only solution there is to wait for someone to go crazy and be thrown in jail.
Sure. Definitely nothing to do with the fact that in your country, locking people up is SUPER profitable for prisons and a few other industries so certain institutions lobby to make sure more people keep getting locked up.