I use Teams and Jira, and I can't even imagine the amount of wasted time when I click anything in either of them and nothing happens for a good while, just waiting around.
Don’t worry teamsters we added 6 new ticket statuses so they can get auto-sorted straight to the abyss.
I beg to differ.
I've not had a real issue with teams since the early 'new teams' release. Nor have I had issues prior.
Using Jira is actually something I dread every day.
Knowing I have to go through the list of tasks and projects, where each click means another few seconds of staring blankly at the screen as it loads.
In an age where I'm used to every interaction having a near instant reaction, using Jira feels like peeling potatoes with a butter knife.
Maybe you just don't have a reasonable comparison. We just switched from Slack and Zoom to Teams and it has significantly impacted our ability to collaborate and communicate. It's constantly dropping calls, video quality is awful, annotation is awful, the layout is wasteful with tons of wasted space, audio is terrible, there's no closed captioning visible while screen sharing, there are too many problems to list. It's the type of product I'd expect from a high school programming class, not a trillion dollar company.
Here's my Jira experience. MS shop, have a programming department, but I'm not in programming and programming isn't our core product.
Need something that requires a Jira request. I use MS Edge because that's what IT recommends and it's not my computer. The only putative upside is that it knows who I'm logged in as. I click on the link for Jira, it asks me if I want to sign in with my account, which I assume is the MS one since it has the right email/user for it. It tells me that's the wrong one. Would I like to use my Atlassian account? Sure, let's use the same email. Whoops, you don't have an Atlassian account, but there's an MS account for your company. Do you want to use that, or something from the usual list of places that will log you in (Google, Facebook, MS)? Note that the MS option is only included in the list of third-party logins even though it knows my company has MS logins setup. So I click the MS option, and it may or may not ask for my password, because I'm already logged in via Edge, but it will certainly do my 2FA. And now I'm finally able to tell IT what is bothering me, and they wonder why people always seem frustrated.
So, now that I've gone through that once, I can save a single click by not choosing the Atlassian account option and go directly to signing in with a third party. I can only assume this is supposed to be the streamlined process.
I mean, it just sounds like the people from your Tools/Infrastructure/IT/Devops/whatever-it's-called-for-you department are fucking incompetent and can't properly configure a Single Sign-On. Took mine a few years as well, I think the ticket was stuck in the queue behind the "restart some servers when nobody's watching to see how long until they find the issue" tickets, which they seemed to be working on weekly.
Also, I can't think of any reason why SSO can't work with Mozilla or Chrome also, not just with Edge.
I absolutely love how this implies that the team is happy before going to Jira.
so not only can Atlassian not write software, they can't develop a usable product, and they can't even market it without insinuating how shitty it is.
I read "happy ___ starts with ___" as stating that happiness was the eventual result of a process that started with ___.
Yes, like most normal people do.
There's a lot of discussion when you're a software dev about the best way to do things, and a lot more is spent on this debate than on actually writing code. One could wonder if there is so much discussion because there are so many good ideas that it's difficult to choose the one that is optimal for the situation.
But then you read one of these posts on lemmy and you are reminded that someone with internet access and thumbs could spare the short time they have to take a shit to egregiously misunderstand a simple fucking slogan, smugly post about their shit take on the internet, and then return to their job where they will then spend hours misunderstanding the simplest of fucking concepts, slowing down everyone else along with them.
Starting a new week on Monday, wondering how they f up tge experience on that web site this time....
For those complaining about Jira... I used to be one of you. After changing jobs and using several alternatives, I am begging to be back on Jira. Manage Engine is currently the bane of my existence.
The issue is more that all of these planning tools enable bad managers to implement bad management practices and workflows without any actual tracking for what constitutes bad management. Almost without fail, every manager I've worked with who is very attached to these products ends up using them for the sake of using them. And then when that produces shit results it's all about "engineering buy in" and "process learning curves" and they end up doing real damage to products before someone notices that Jira actions are not correlated with protective management.
The biggest issue is that good, effective management tools actually end up being a double edged sword because of how they shield bad managers the illusion of legitimacy.
Company started on Asana, individual teams jumped to Jira, company eventually followed. I was always accidentally creating blank tickets in Asana.
Honestly 95% of Jira complaints are because people have crap workflows configured. Out of the box Jira is pretty terrible but it's very customisable and you need to adjust it to suit your needs - and they have to be your needs and workflows.
That being said, there's that last 5% that Jira just gets in the way. If anyone has ever had multiple teams working on a single product, Jira is very prescribed about how you're supposed to structure that and If you don't, it's a pain.
I'd suggest that 95% of Jira complaints are actually about corporate culture which is felt most keenly through asshole PMs trying to micromanage you through a ticketing system. It's mostly a fine piece of software - if you have a certified wizard to configure it it can be great... if you have a dummy it's going to be barely usable - but you can say the same thing about github issue tracking.
The unfortunate thing is that the teams most likely to use Jira are also the teams I most likely never want to work on.
That might very well be the case, however, why are all of these apps so incredibly bad?
Jira especially seems like the definition of feature creep. It's more bloated than a lactose intolerant child after a tub of ice cream.
Because having more ticked boxes than the competition sells. Doesn't matter if it's of any relevance.
We switched to a different tool that's developed by the same company I work for, and there has been nonstop complaining about it ever since. Jira might not be the best tool, but it's better than the alternatives by miles.
Also technical shit posting on Confluence is just the best. (I don't like Atlassian, I just want to go back to Jira)
I also wonder if people complaining about Jira are still on Jira Server. Jira Cloud is a much nicer experience. Certainly not perfect, but I've yet to see an actual viable alternative (once worked someplace that tried to move all project management to Gitlab... 🤮).
Haha a PM at my job just tried to move everything to gitlab thankfully someone in charge realized how stupid an idea that was...
That seriously has to be the worst product I have ever used. I don’t understand how it’s still around.
I so agree. My boss likes it and I find it bizarre that anyone pays for that garbage. We are switching to JIRA now due to a decision over his head :)
Oh God. Those are the 2 worst ones. They are mainly used for IT tickets, not for developing software. Jira isn't the worst, but it does lack basic features. It's just when companies use Jira you just know you are going to have to deal with a bunch of PMs who all they care about is velocity.
There are so many other simplified alternatives these days. Basecamp is one.
You are lucky. I've never used those but I can tell you that PT is a huge piece of shit. The UI is among the worst ever. My go-to example for why I hate it is that you can literally be working on a ticket, reading it or writing in it, and if another coworker does something to it that causes it to move positions in the board or list, the fucking thing will literally disappear from your screen in front of your eyes. It feels like the designers have never used software before.
At least you’re not using Azure Devops boards, Service Now or Basecamp. Those are all worse in my opinion. I miss Jira.
While I don’t like the main Jira software, the Jira Service Management part is actually kind of decent for my needs. It basically allows me to create a help desk for my small business, where they can report issues and I can view them in the Jira app. It’s somewhat limited on the free tier, only allowing 3 agents, but it works plenty fine for my use case.
As for the actual Jira software, I wouldn’t use it, since my workflow needs don’t require it.
Just do a lightweigt process in a few docs and Excel, and meet in person often enough that you know what folks are doing. That's SOOOO much better and more natural for getting real work done. Great ideas die in JIRA among endless planning meetings and premature decomposition and estimates.
JIRA is fine as long as you forego using fucking align. Goddamn fucking align is a the biggest waste of upsell that they catch product managers in ever.
"I'm not your friend. By the way, if you don't use Jira you're fired." -Middle Managment
"I hate Jira too. you're fired"- Senior management.
Seriously though - JIRA isn't always a massive pain in the ass. It's just the way it's used that sucks. Workflow restrictions so devs can't move tickets from testing back to in progress, dozens of mandatory fields, etc.
When your tools start dictating your workflow rather than the other way around then it's time to switch tools.
I use both Redmine and Jira at work. I don't know if we're using an older version but Redmine feels like something from 2001. Even the API for it is unpleasant.
That's actually reassuring to hear. Aside from Chilli, it's the only program I've ever used (12 years going). I've got teamates pushing for changes but jira comes at a high cost. Redmine may look old and I hate that it's written on ruby, but it's free and with some plugins it's been able to suite our needs well.
Anyone who pushes jira is a waste of fucking carbon, and I hope they never find happiness.
