https://abc11.com/post/javion-magee-death-henderson-nc-investigation-not-lynching-vance-county-sheriff-says-despite-reports-hanging/15299573/
The family of Javion Magee and people in Vance County want answers and transparency in his death investigation.
"The young man was not dangling from a tree. He was not swinging from a tree. The rope was wrapped around his neck. It was not a noose. There was not a knot in the rope, so therefore, it was not a lynching here in Vance County."
Umm, are you saying it wasn't a lynching on a technicality? Everyone in the south must be Olympic level mental gymnasts. In particular to say there's no evidence of foul play, at least.
This is like Russian dissidents falling out of windows or down stairs.
The legal definitions can be far removed from normal usage: in California “lynching” is when a crowd forcibly removes a suspect from police custody, which historically was often a prelude to what we would recognize as actual lynching (presumably it was defined that way so participants could be charged even if they were stopped before harming the victim). But it’s been used in more recent times to charge protesters with “lynching” for interfering with the arrest of other protesters.
That is interesting that it has bespoke legal definitions. The Wikipedia entry is what I expected
Lynching is an extrajudicial killing by a group. It is most often used to characterize informal public executions by a mob in order to punish an alleged transgressor, punish a convicted transgressor, or intimidate people. It can also be an extreme form of informal group social control, and it is often conducted with the
Yes, legal definitions vary a lot by jurisdiction. "Assault and battery" is probably the most varied. Some places they're two separate things.
I guess based on that definition, since it wasn't proven yet that a group of people did this, it does not meet the criteria.
A group could be three dudes in Klan robes. I haven't seen anything yet indicating that applies here. But the history of Deep South racism is also a history of terrorism. It only takes three homicidal maniacs to terrify a county.
Brame told ABC11 that there were no signs of foul play in Magee's death.
Suicide and lynching can look similar. The officer said no signs of foul play first, then got a little too technical on the details of lynching as a response to speculation which probabky contained those details.
Yes, the response about specific details sounds ridiculous in a vacuum. But keep in mind that what he is saying is also a way to describe why a suicide isn't a lynching.
At least the police are reaching out to an external agency to hopefully provide some conformation on the circumstances.
I would love to see someone explain how you could commit suicide by having an untied rope around a tree.
D E D I C A T I O N
Rope was wrapped around his neck, and wrapping rope around a rough or aoft object a few times can create enough friction to keep it from moving. So loop it around the neck a few times, and around the trunk a few times, and it will behave the same way as being tied on both ends with some tension if the loops are pressed against each other.
So from a standing position loop it around the tree a few times, the neck a few times, and then sag so the friction keeps it in place. My understanding is that people who die from autoerotic asphyxiation sometimes have the rope looped around their neck without tightening it thinking it will slip off if they pass out but end up hanging themselves instead because it doesn't slip off. Someone who is committing suicide could have the same end result if they left it untied just in case, but if it tightens and gets stuck they will still die from strangulation.
That all sounds like a huge leap to me.
I'm not gonna say it's not possible and honestly I'd like to see the tree it happened on but if you're gonna actually kill yourself with a rope a noose isn't hard to learn to tie.
I actually think it would be easier to learn to tie a noose than it would be to configure the rope in the way you described.
This reeks of foul play. Like it's practically dripping with it.
I actually think it would be easier to learn to tie a noose than it would be to configure the rope in the way you described.
I'm literally describing just winding a rope around a cylinder, then around another cylinder. It is also a way to intentionally set up a suicide, although it might be the least likely way that he died.
Of course if he was really drunk or under the influence of some other drug it is also possible that something led to him wrapping rope around his neck and choking out. Or he had the rope around his neck, but died from some other means like an overdoes. There are dozens of things that could accidentally lead to death with a rope looped around the neck that are more likely that intentional suicide.
He said Magee went to a nearby Walmart shortly before he died. That is where he is believed to have bought the rope found around his neck.
If this young man bought the rope himself, if there is evidence of this like surveillance video, that paints this situation in a pretty different light.
Edit: I want to be very clear that the police should be presenting any evidence they have of this. I would not take the police at their word. My comment here hinges on the report being true.
I want to be very clear that the police should be presenting any evidence they have of this
Are you willing to wait for the investigation to finish, or do you prefer to have incomplete information so you can jump to conclusions sooner?
Maybe the cop should have waited for the investigation to finish before making a fool of themselves by jumping to the conclusion of what this was not.
It's not a real lynching unless you know how to tie a proper noose. That means 13 loops.
very high chances they were interrupted trying to hang him or the body afterwards. sheriff is a tool.
He obviously hung himself from the tree with nothing to stand on and then untied the rope as a precaution. You know, in case any kids walked by.
Call it what you will, it’s a travesty and should be taken very seriously. But, this is the south, and most southerners love to mince words; especially when it comes to race and politics.
This could be funny if it wasn’t so sad. Reminds me of the episode in The Wire where the various departments wouldn’t take responsibility over the dead girls in the can because of they could t pinpoint where exactly they died and when. They care too much for the state. God forbid there’s a lynching and instead of admitting they have a problem they focus on cooking the stats.
Read between the lines, from what they revealed.
His feet were on the ground.
He bought the rope himself.
He was found not far from his semi.
The rope was wrapped around his neck and not tied together.
The guy was doing some self choking to get off. His "safety" was thinking that if he blacked out the rope would drop off him, but it didn't work.
Or intentional suicide. Hard to know at this point since all three can end with a body and a rope around the neck.
This reminds me of those people that commit suicide by shooting themselves in the head six times.
Given that the sheriff in question is black, and that he has requested investigations from outside parties, I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt until the investigations are complete.
Just like internalized misogyny is very much a thing in women, internalized racism is a thing, too. It's sort of like a poor person aligning themselves with the rich against their own interests, if that's easier for you to visualize. All that to say, I agree with the other commenter— that cop is blue.
OK, like, MAYBE everyone should quit knee-jerking and claiming being experts off a headline, and maybe this guy is a grown-up who understands the situation more than you do?
I could be wrong. But the pitchfork mentality and outrage addiction is even worse on Lemmy than it was on Reddit, and that's really not a good thing.
I'm not saying assume nothing is wrong. I'm just suggesting that it accomplishes nothing to jump to conclusions until all the evidence is available. Is that so unreasonable to you?
I finished ace Attorney in a since day. How do they not know who did it yet?! Are they dumb?
/s
I would say this department is full of "bad apples." You might remember the kid being slammed a few years back. Even if the event was a suicide, the community will always wonder. They like to hid stuff and pay corrupt sheriffs.
I can see why the sheriff doesn't want to rush to call it lynching when there isn't evidence of lynching specifically. BUT it appears to be a horrific and violent crime that surely should be their first priority. Sheriff's statement is downplaying the whole thing.
Well, they themselves are bringing in the SBI and Attorney General's Office. If they're lying, they just fucked themselves hard for no reason.
It seems they're actually being extremely thorough.
There are 50,000 suicides a year in the US and only 22,000 murders, but y'all suspect it's more likely a guy with his feet on the ground, a rope not even tied, no defensive wounds, and a rope he bought himself, is a murder victim instead of the far outnumbering suicides.
Yep. 21 year old truck driver...probably did it accidentally just like David Carradine did.
Figure he thought wrapping it a few times around his neck would just come undone if he accidentally blacked out and let it go. Sounds like it didn't.
What do you mean we know he wasn't hung by it? What gave you that idea? The rope was tied to a tree and he was hanging. Just not so high that his feet couldn't be on the ground. Read up about how Kung fu star David Carradine died.
The article makes it sound like he was tied to the trunk of a tree, not hanging from a branch, and also that there was no knot in the rope. I'm definitely having trouble putting those details together into suicide or murder or lynching, the whole thing is very odd.
You're interpreting what you read a bit incorrectly.
The rope was tied above on the tree and an end wrapped around his neck, with no knot. Nothing tied around a trunk. The wrapped end around his neck was holding up the bulk of his weight, but he was close enough to the ground that at least his feet were touching.
The whole thing sounds like he did it to himself, either on purpose as a suicide, or on accident as a sex thing.
Well yes if they had said "by technicality this is not a lynching, but it certainly smells like one" I don't think we'd be thinking the sheriff is fucked in the head. But he didn't say that
This should be an interesting one for seeing who reads articles and who reads just headlines.
So... Pretty much everyone then? Lol
Now I'm actually wondering what that percentage would be like.
I got a lot of negative comments I could make; I will not. The only comment I will make will be that I hope he has evidence it isn't.
People overblowing shit like wild.
He bought the rope, and pd will only say so much to the public. They'll tell the family.
From what has been revealed, there's two really obvious likelihoods. Suicide, and auto erotic asphyxiation. With the rope just being wrapped around his neck and him not up in the air, I'm leaning towards the latter. Bet he was thinking the rope would unwind if he blacked out, but it didn't.
Also possible that someone could have murdered him with his own rope, and left him in a way that looked like a suicide. Definitely something that needs time to investigate further.
Ok. It's possible. But what's more likely? Suicide outpaces murder by 2.5 times, and suicide for truckers is even higher. Plus, how he was describes as being found sounds like auto erotic asphyxiation. Feet on ground, rope not tied.
Yes, it is less likely, but still possible so a full investigation is needed. The point is that it looks like multiple things.
People overblowing shit like wild.
He bought the rope
They need to release the video of him making the purchase. They claim to have it but refuse to release it. There is no reason not to. So until that happens, there’s no reason to believe the cops.
Edit: 🥾😋’s get blocked.
Suicide rate is 2.5 times more likely than murder. There's currently no reason to not believe them.
I say this because if there wasn't footage of him buying it, not mentioning it would be the obvious way to go if you were trying to cover up possible foul play. Saying there is footage though; footage that never gets produced screams the opposite.
So if the footage didn't exist, they never would have even hinted that it does.
Obviously the investigation should be thorough to rule out alternatives, especially considering the history of such racist crimes, but it may legitimately be a suicide.
Is it more racist to assume it was a lynching because he's black so therefore any death involving a rope -- an accident, happenstance, autoerotic asphyxiation, suicide -- must be a lynching, or to assume that it might not be a lynching because it would be stereotyping and objectifying black bodies to assume any death involving or related to a rope must be a lynching? 😬
I mean there is literally video of him buying the rope that he was found with from Walmart, buying smokes from a smoke shop, which were found next to his body, him driving to where his body was found, and not returning to his truck. There was no signs of assault or trauma. It would be pretty crazy if someone happened to stumble upon him near a tree with a rope and smokes and was able to then lynch him without him resisting.
It's only lynching if it's commited in the Lynch region of the deep south. Otherwise it's just sparkling hate crime.