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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZfUG4rDbeQ
I almost chocked on my coffee in the first 20 seconds :)
I know what I'm doingnot entirely related but I guarantee you'd have more fun playing some cheap indie game with your close friends on a $800 PC
Ngl your comment made me look up what I could get for ab. $800
RTX 4060 302.15€
Ryzen 5 4500 67.45€
Decent AM4 mainboard 57.07€
Decent CPU air cooler 21.07€
Thermal paste 3.01€
16 GB DDR4 RAM 35.20€
Semi-Modular 600W PSU 75.07€
500GB M.2 NVMe SSD 34.58€
2TB HDD 35.20€
Case 85.61€
Wifi card 25.10€
PC building tutorial: free on YT or just follow the instructions of your case and mainboard...
Software not included so people can look up what Windows officially charges them for showing them ads
That makes 741.51€ or $817.57 for a pretty damn good custom pc... And it could be way less if you went for 2nd hand parts / better deals
I would rather build it myself than buying a cheap prebuilt one from a no name bc a friend of mine tried that and got scammed and realized way too late sadly
That's not a bad build, really. Although I can't imagine the air cooler will be necessary for a 4500, much rather use the stock and possibly upgrade to 32gb RAM if in budget. My stock 2000 series Wraith cooler has done me well in 40c summers.
Good call, you wouldn't need the cooler. Wasn't sure if the CPU comes packaged with one but apparently it does.
Tbh if I wanted to spend a bit more I personally would go for a 4TB HDD too instead of 2TB and maybe a 1TB M.2 NVMe SSD alongside the 32GB RAM
I made a build that would have included all of that alongside a Ryzen 7 5800X but that build would have been around 1000$ so quite a stretch from the 800$ mark.
(Tbh it would still fair better than the PS5 Pro if you were to purchase PS+ Essential for more than 3 years - with Extra and Premium it's even worse and since PC games are usually cheaper the free games & discounts don't really seal the deal for me)
Remember when some top Sony exec said that this generation wouldn't need a pro, and that that was a unique PS4 generation thing?
Looking at GTA6 I wonder if a normal PS5 can even run the game at the resolution from the trailer
I'm not buying the pro, the PS6 or the next Xbox series console.
This gen felt like a waste of money to me, with only minute differences at a huge cost.
I'll wait until 4 years into the new console gen to decide.
Until then, I have my pc and my 7800xt Nitro+
“Minute differences” is a bit absurd. It may have been a bit too long since you’ve booted up your PS4.
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I stopped after the PS3wii360 but I have to say, the PS4 was legit garbage that took FOREVER to load and played like poo (hence why I stopped) but I gotta admit the base PS5 and Xbox whatever are FANTASTIC machines. The AMD video chips and SSDs make a heck of a difference.
That’s really the key. The PS4 and even Pro were fighting for their lives by the end of the generation. Anyone who claims the upgrade to a PS5 was “minute” is lying to themselves about their jet engine PS4
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Could not agree more. I left consoles for only computer and stopped caring about exclusives, and even my bitch ass recognizes the PS5 as amazing. The PS4 was horrible though. You’re totally right.
Nah, better lighting doesn't do a damn thing to make a game more fun. The only notable difference that even matters is better load times.
Well from that perspective literally any upgrade at all is entirely pointless and a waste of money. There’s no point upgrading from your Nintendo 64. None of the games made possible by any console since can truly make any games inherently more fun, it’s all just graphical and performance enhancements.
I have to assume you're too young to remember previous generations.
Increased power makes a difference up to a point, but we're now so far into diminishing returns you can hardly tell the difference between a ps4 game and the ps5 'enhanced' if you don't have a 4k TV.
Increased computing power used to open up entirely new concepts in gaming. 3D environments, then larger and larger worlds, dynamic physics engines, more complex NPC Ai and more power to run larger numbers of enemies at a time.
Now, it hardly matters. There's more than enough power to do pretty much anything you want. Unlimited worlds, thousands of NPCs, photorealistic graphics, and absolutely nothing new. It can always be 'bigger and better' but at what point does that stop mattering? For me, it was last console generation.
Increased computing power used to open up entirely new concepts in gaming. 3D environments, then larger and larger worlds, dynamic physics engines, more complex NPC Ai and more power to run larger numbers of enemies at a time.
Absolutely none of that makes a new console inherently more fun. Many of the games I have on my launch PS1 and N64 are to this day unsurpassed. Not only that but some of the most critically acclaimed, genre defining games of the last 10 years could be run on a calculator. On the other hand we have all this extra compute power yet video game AI is universally garbage. To this very day the hands down best combat AI in a game are Halo 1 and the original F.E.A.R.
Console upgrades today are about making things prettier, fit on bigger screens, and perform better. If you think the jump from PS4 to PS5 wasn’t worth the money, there’s no upgrade that will ever be worth it to you again.
I'm confused why you seem like you're arguing with me but still fundamentally making the same point. Those improvements don't inherently make games more fun, but they create opportunities for variety and new elements to the medium. It was previous tech improvements that made Halo and F.E.A.R. possible, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
But processing power isn't really a relevant limitation to game design anymore. I genuinely don't see any future console generations being particularly enticing for me, outside an upgrade to my steam deck, especially when most of what I play is 5-20 years old anyway.
You’ve got it backwards. I said from your perspective, any upgrade will be a waste of money. You then proceeded to argue how from your perspective, any upgrade will be a waste of money.
We gained ssd drives sure, I agree that's a great improvement.
But 4k30 still feels like a minute upgrade as it's not native 4k.
Forget about the stated 8k on the PS5 box, lol.
What else did we gain... Less battery life for the controller (but the haptics are great).
More thumbstick drift.
Maybe, 8 exclusives? 12?
Not worth it to me.
Yes besides all of the brand new hardware that improved load times dramatically and can reliably play games at 60fps without blowing out your eardrums due to fan noise, the best new controller to hit the market since the first rumble pak, and all the new games to play on it, it didn't improve much… lol
You better settle in bucko because I have some bad news, it only gets more incremental from here.
Nah, just a guy who has actually used both consoles and understands the state of Compute today.
Alright, you do you. I'm not happy with Sony's approach, so I won't be buying any of their new products.
(Unless they make a Vita 2 that is actually priced well for the specs)
This gen felt like a waste of money to me, with only minute differences at a huge cost.
Nah, SSDs are a massive upgrade, even ignoring everything else.
I could never go back to the spinning disk hard drives.
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Agreed. SSDs are insane. I have every console from the 2600 to the PS3wii360 but stopped at the PS4 Gen because they were terrible.
The PS5 is a wonderful machine (but I’m still only a computer bitch forever now)
PS4 was fantastic! So many great games pushing the system to it's absolute limits like God of War, RDR2, and Bloodborne. Now with the PS5 we get games like God of War 2, Spider Man 2, and Elden Ring. And you can play them all on the PS4. But no, let's release a PS5 pro before even scratching the surface of what the PS5 is capable of
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I remember watching my friend play Monster Hunter World and it took like three different 2-3 minute loading screens to get into a hunt.
PS5 is INCREDIBLY powerful, I don’t understand the need for a pro… I fully agree with you there.
The load screen improvement is from hard drive read speeds. The pro model upgrades the CPU and GPU for more powerful graphics processing.
Specifically m.2 nvme. The 4 had ssd drives. The 5 has nvme form factor which is 600-700% faster read/write than Sata drives.
Make no mistake, the 4 pro to the 5 is a huge upgrade. The disk read time from nvme alone is worth the upgrade. But the 5 to 5 pro doesn't really seem like it would be worth buying another console. The 6 might be worth a replacement, but who knows. That's 4 years away.
To be fair, the PS5 was the worst investment I made last year. I did never buy a PS4, I own PSX, 2 and 3 tho.
It feels like PS3 was the biggest leap in technology. I loved my PS3, and had a ton of games for it. Since then it's been incremental, faster loading times, incrementally better graphics, and such. The PS5 makes loading screens on Bethesda games tolerable to me
I think I am going to go Xbox next time around for console games. The PS5 has been a let down in terms of game selection and overall improvements. I actually get mad when I go to look at games in the store and the ads and clips are blurry and low res because Sony dont invest in their backend to stream at a decent resolution.
I bought a meh pc yesterday because Im going to use that moving forward, pay for myinternet once and use it when I want.
If you think the ps5 game selection is bad wait till you see what xbox doesn't have. And everything exclusive to xbox is on PC. Sony has been absolutely mopping the floor with xbox this gen, which is probably why they think people will spend $700 in the pro.
And how's your internet? Because I've never thought the videos on the store were bad enough to complain about. Might not be 4k but its never been blurry for me.
I have had the same issue with 10gb and 1gb internet. Their store has terrible optimisation even though they baked it into the ps5.
Sony puts their games on PC too, I just dont want to support them anymore. I will probably go pc fulltime. I stopped with Nintendo too because of how badly they sucked.
I really love the Switch form factor and detachable controls. I bought a Steam Deck instead, though.
It's okay. You did the same as me but skipping the steps where you spend the money on a switch, and then leave it in a drawer when you get tired of games that play at 27 FPS, which you're lucky if you manage to get with a 20% discount after tracking them on dekudeals for months.
I would have considered a new console if I could follow the naming convention. this pro and series whatever nonsense is too confusing for someone who isn't plugged into console generations anymore.
Ok, xbox is confusing with the one, one x, series x. Etc But PS is PS5 and ps5pro. And I guess whether you want a disc drive.
PS has kept their naming consistent enough that it's not hard to figure out. Ps4 and ps5 are obviously different gens, one x series x doesn't inform you in any way what's better.
It's difficult for you to follow that 5 is higher than 4 and that Pro is better than non-Pro? Seriously?
This thing is expensive, and I probably won’t get one.
But the Panasonic 3DO cost $700 in 90s money and that thing sucked ass, so this price isn’t something we’ve never seen before.
Sony does need to read the room, though. It’s a bit of a bad look.
Prices have changed since then, tvs were serious investments that ate up a significant portion of your income. It was a different consideration back then.
I think Sony is trying for bankruptcy. With that whole PSN thing with, which game was it, Helldivers? Just...who would ever buy anything from Sony ever again?
Who is this guy and why should I care what he says?
Edit: Since no one could answer it. He's an indie developer and made a few games. Silver Falls, Clasherball, and Animelee. He also says he's a consultant, based on the video, but I couldn't find anything of him doing that.
So he's slightly a step above a regular guy making some video complaining.
He says in the video. He's been a marketing consultant for some really big companies. No one is better to talk about poor marketing decisions than someone who does it for a living and for big companies. And his iew point aligns closely with what most people are thinking.
Tbh you can decide for yourself how valid what he says it. Just watch the video. Its only short but it makes alot of sense.
I did watch the video. It's why I asked. Anyone can say they are a consultant, and he doesn't really mention much to back that claim. He doesn't say anything novel either.
I'm not trying to be hypercritical, but if someone says that they are a credible source I want to know why.
But he is just giving an opinion. Sure if you want to scrutinise then his credentials matter but for the sake of this video we should take it at face value as its not like he is going to be taken seriously by sony. But echoing an opinion shared by many is important with the small platform he has.
Looking at his channel it looks like he makes games for nintendo. And it would appear he has done other work outside of that field.
If more people in the industry follow suit or if this gets more people talking about sonys terrible decisions then im all for it.
I don't think it's worth it, especially if you already own a PS5.
But what did people think it was going to cost?
PS4 was $400 at launch. PS4 Pro was $400 at launch.
Obviously tech is getting more expensive to produce instead of cheaper now, but still, a $200 markup from the base price is pretty damn huge.
PS4 Pro was still obscenely underpowered. Jaguar was terrible at PS4's original launch, and the boost on the Pro was marginal because it was still the same terrible underlying design.
Going into the PS5 pro, everyone projected this pricing, because it's actually modern hardware and their costs have went up instead of down.
I imagine they'll make money from the kinds of people who absolutely must have the latest and greatest available tech for everything. Personally, I wouldn't bother even if money weren't an issue.
Computing hardware when the PS4 and PS4 pro came out was still in the before times when new hardware meant doing more for the same money. It’s been a minute since those times and that isn’t really something Sony has any control over.
Meanwhile you also have a weird phenomenon that didn’t exist during the PS4 generation where you have a huge spike in inflation between your base console and pro launch. When the PS5 launched at cost $500, but $500 then is more than $600 now. The PS5 pro is really only $100 more in 2024 money than the PS5 was at launch.
Maybe Sony is making the wrong move here but understanding the market and economy as it is today, I’m not sure what else they could have done besides not launch a pro console at all.
There's always a market for people who want the latest and greatest thing, so they'll make money off of it, but since most people will have the base model (even more than those who stuck with a base PS4, I imagine), all games will be designed with that in mind.
I don’t agree with that really. I think PS5 games are already designed with the PS5 Pro in mind. We already have difference performance profiles where you can have 60FPS OR 4k OR Ray tracing.
If all the Pro means is being able to play 60FPS at 4k with Raytracing, the $700 price point would be very attractive. You won’t get that with a $700 PC that’s for sure.
I think 60 fps at 4K with raytracing are maybe PS6 specs, not PS5 pro. I hope I'm wrong, but I'll believe it when I see it.
I will have to wait and see, but if it competes with high-end hardware on PC in terms of 4K support and high framerates I think €800 is pretty reasonable. I see people online claiming that it should've been like €600 or maybe €650. But a RTX4080 GPU alone is more expensive than that already, and it's not even top of the line. But if you want advanced raytracing, maxed out settings and 4K you'll definitely need something in that price range of GPUs at minimum.
People don't NEED to upgrade to the PS5 Pro, it seems more like an alternative for people who already own 4K TVs and want to make better use of it. I'd be more annoyed about the lack of a disc drive.
That said, I think the real issue is if developers start abandoning the original PS5 hardware in favor of the new ones and start getting lazy and stop optimising their games for the older PS5. Which would in fact make the upgrade to a Pro almost mandatory if you want to keep playing at reasonable framerates.
It won't come close to a 4080 so that isn't a sensible comparison. I think it's estimated to be slower than the regular 4070.
IDK why you mention 4k and max settings and high frame rates, PS5 Pro won't do these things. It's not even twice as fast as the regular PS5 which in many games drops below 1080p 60fps medium settings.
Which is why I said it's wait and see.
The PS5 already does 4K and higher framerates, for at least most of their optimised first-party games, I'd just expect a Pro version to handle it better on top of more traytracing, otherwise what even would be the point of upgrading for such a high price.
A 4070 is still like €600+, if you want more advanced raytracing stuff you'll have to go for 4080 and up, which means easily exceeding €1000 for a GPU.
This is why I compared the PS5 Pro to the 4080, because they claim to do advanced raytracing on the Pro. Which is why I think a price of €800, which sits between that of a 4070 and 4080, is quite reasonable. People want high visual fidelity on 4K and high framerates, but still expect to pay far less than high-end PC hardware, I don't think that's a realistic expectation.
Watch Digital Foundry, very very few AAA PS5 games can do 4k AND 60fps (which is what I assume you mean by "high framerates", although 60 isn't really that high it's just mid). Probably none of those are doing ray tracing at the same time. Most PS5 games have upscaling enabled at all times because they're rendering at much lower internal resolutions. PS5 Pro is not even twice as powerful, it's not going to be capable of pushing 4x as many pixels per second. There's a reason why they're still talking about their upscaling algorithms.
"Advanced ray tracing" is not a technical term that exists it's just marketing speak. And obviously they couldn't say path tracing because they won't be doing much of that like a 4070 or 4080 can do.
Here Digital Foundry is comparing the PS5Pro to the RTX 3070 Ti, which is much weaker than the 4070 https://youtu.be/W2wOn8zS8dU?t=3577 (the 4070 has more VRAM than the 3070 Ti that they mention there)
The 4070 is similar to the 3080, which is a pretty decent lead over the 3070 Ti. The 4080 is leagues above them all.
I know they cheat their way through abusing terms and doing stuff like checkerboard 4K and frame generation and what not.
The point is that speaking to the casual masses it will still be a tremendous visual upgrade up from what the original PS5 is capable of. Or at least I assume so, because again, otherwise there would be very little reason to even upgrade. Visually games like God of War Ragnarok and Horizon Forbidden West are fine on the PS5, even on performance modes (which does run at 60 FPS, frame gen or not). And frankly to me it competes on the same level as visually high-end games on PC (I have a PS5 and a high-end PC). We'll see if the quality difference will be worth it on the Pro, I frankly doubt it but maybe for more casual players that don't have a high-end PC to compare to it will.
I mean developers still haven’t really abandoned the PS4 have they? I’ve pretty much stopped playing games on my PS4, but last I checked any new release I would have wanted was coming out on both PS4 and PS5.
I regret buying a PS5 at all. I haven't been a PSN subscriber for over three years at this point and I don't feel inclined to be in the future. All the games my friends and I play are on PC and really the only game worth a damn is Astrobot, which is far and away the most fun platformer game I've played and is the sole game to justify that console purchase lol.
I echo the other comments here saying this generation is a waste, it really is and there is nothing really to be gained by getting the latest and "greatest" console today. Maybe it's just a sign of the times that consoles just don't have that much pull like they used to, unless they're portable like the Steam Deck or Switch.
The PS 5 price was very reasonable, considering how expensive it was to build a PC at that time, now the PS5 Pro is a completely different beast and I do agree it makes very little sense.
I love my PS5.
But I also just got a Ryzen 9 5900x for $300 off, I have a RTX 2070 Super. My PS5 can play games with HDR at 4k at 30fps. Big ol 65" screen. With the Ryzen 7 3700x I could get like 70 FPS on cyberpunk 2077 on my 2k monitor 27" screen, no HDR with DLSS3 enabled.
The processor upgrade alone was an huge boost to game quality for $250. Since I now don't have to replace all my internals to utilize an RTX 4080 Super, I'm getting one of those.
The RTX 4080 Super has an HDMI 2.1 port, so I can use VRR on my TV and enjoy the 120hz smooth frame rate.
The PS5 pro is essentially the same as the PS4 Pro was the last generation. It you have a PS5, you won't notice a huge difference.
Is it still kicking? I didn't have a lot of success with it in the past, I'll give it another shot